Enough already

Wow, what an amazing few days. One thing is sure, my readers share the same passion for the Green Bay Packers, whether or not they can take a little criticism is irrelevant. The Green Bay Packers are and always will be my team, but I fortunately am able to see the good and bad of my team. I don’t just say they are great because I like them them. Granted I’m not a coach or a scout, but because I am a fan and a shareholder in this case, I can speak the good with the bad, as I see it. If you don’t like it, find another Packers’ site to visit. I could care less. I’m not in this for the money. If I was, Packernet would be plastered with ads like the other fan sites. It is a labor of love for me, but I have to call it as I see it, I may be right, I may be wrong.

The bottom line is while this is the second worst loss in my Packers’ history, behind only the Super Bowl loss to Denver, and just slightly above the 4th and 26 game in Philly, the time has come to move on. And in moving on I will not back off my stance that I hope Brett Favre retires. Nobody can ever overstate what No. 4 has done for the Packers, the city of Green Bay and NFL, but for the first time in his career he might not be the best option at quarterback for the Green & Gold. I know Aaron Rodgers hasn’t done a thing yet other than his strong performance at Dallas this year, but I doubt he throws the ball up for grabs in the playoffs like Favre has and still does. Favre is the Marty Shottenheimer of quarterbacks, wins big during the regular season but sucks in the playoffs. If anybody has a stat that can argue that I’m open for debate. I just think the Packers can achieve the same goals next year with Rodgers at QB that they can with Favre, and that is a reflection of how good the Packers are, not how bad. If you are building for the future, than it is time to build with a young quarterback as well.

Brett is one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time, no question about it, he holds all the records. One guy who doesn’t hold all the records in Joe Montana, but he has four Super Bowl Rings. Winning in the playoffs is the most important thing. Trent Dilfer, Jim McMahon, Jeff Hostetler, they all have the same number of Super Bowl wins that Brett Favre has. For cripes sakes, Terry Bradshaw has four Super Bowl rings and he couldn’t spell cat if you spotted him the “C” and the “T”. He knew enough not the throw the game away though. I love Brett to death and drive by his house every single day thinking about him and how much I love him, but in the big picture it is time for the Packers to go with Rodgers. A-Rodg is ready to play and another year on the bench will only hurt him and the Packers long term future.

That is all I’m going to say about that. Looking ahead to 2008 offensively,  I think the one position the Packers need to improve on is the offensive line. The Packers have not recovered from the loss of Mike Wahle and Marco Rivera three years ago and when you think about it had the Packers been able to run the ball against the Giants they wouldn’t have to had to rely on Favre to win it on his own. I think the Packers and head coach Mike McCarthy need to address this position and especially the zone blocking scheme that so far in McCarthy’s tenure has not developed into the force he said it would. In fact, for the most part, the Packers running game sucks. Ryan Grant could still be another Samkon Gado, mark my words.

I don’t know what free agents will be available in that position, but I think that is the key area that needs to be upgraded via free agency or trade. To think the Packers can draft somebody who can step right in and upgrade the line is unrealistic considering the Packers draft position. One thing former general manager Ron Wolf was good at was finding o-lineman, so far his protege Ted Thompson has struggled with that task. Wolf always said without five quality guys, you can’t play.

I’m only talking offense today with a look toward the 2008 season. I will have my defensive take forthcoming.  In the NFL if you are not getting better you are getting worse. Actually that statement is true in all aspects of life.

Hate me if you like, but I am what I am and that is all that I am.

Go Pack!

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  • Jack F.

    Nobody hates you. Heck, we all love what you do with this site, bringing together in one convenient place links to Packers articles wherever they might be dound. And you are certainly entitled to your opinion. But, surely you did not think everyone would agree with your opinion that Favre shoul dretire.

    Favre is 38, was reared in the deep south and did not have a great game in horribly inclement weather. Is Aaron Rodgers a better QB than Favre right now? No chance. He shows some promise, but there are real questions about his durability, given his predisposition to rather serious and lengthy injuries.

    Even considering the weather, how do think Favre would have fared if he had been able to send out one or two receivers against the Giants, rather than keeping people in to block? Or if the Packers could just run for 4 or 5 yeards on first down every so often? The problem was the O-Line, and I think TT and MM will fix that in short order. They could not fix everything in two seasons, but they have done a helluva job so far.

    Our D struggled, too, and made way too many stupid mistakes. How many of the Giant’s drives were sustained by dopey penalties or poor play on third an dlong? Several I can recall. I would like to see Harris get a buzz cut at mid field and punishment for his ridiculous behavor on a few plays. Where did he learn to play so dirty? His behavior spoke volumes about how inadequate he must have felt against average receivers. The D-line failed to occupy blockers, so our LBs were often limited in what they could do. How often did we hear Barnett’s number called? Or Hawk’s? Not much.

    And how about field position? Our STs gave up way too many yards on kick returns, and our punting was very poor. The Giants wer practically starting every drive near midfield.

    Eli Manning had a career game. And yet the Giants scored only 20 points in regulation. And the Packers were probably one play her or there from winning anyway.

    That is NOT Favre’s fault. I would not hang this one on him. The worst you can say is that he was unable to bail out a poor O-line, poort ST play and a mistkae prone defense THIS TIME.

    Packers 4-Ever!

  • Jack F.

    Man, those typos are ugly. Sorry. I should have proof-read my work before launching.

  • TRIP

    I don’t think anyone hates you. I have hated somethings you’ve said in the couple of days. But you are entitled to that, beyond this being your site. But if this be a fan site, of COURSE us Favre-loyalists are gonna swing back! I think this last post was you best-articulated one in a while. Before, all you said was “crap Favre” basically, as if you didn’t understand his contributions to the team. But now you seem a little (deep breath) more sensible. lol

    By the way, who much DO you make from a pretty fan site like this? lol

  • Scott T.

    I have to agree with the last comment. While it is easy to blame Favre for the last drive, this team shouldn’t have been in that position to begin with. I think this team has a good chance at being a Super Bowl contender next year but not without Favre. It doesn’t matter how much promise Rodgers has shown he will not lead us to a Super Bowl in his first year as the starter. Very few quarterbacks have done things like that and I think that last Sunday proved that this team can’t win without a franchise quarterback. No matter what Rodgers has shown he hasn’t proven that yet and won’t do it in one year.

    If Favre comes back we have a chance at the Super Bowl next year. If Favre retires we start over and can no longer just look at the few holes that this team has right now. I give it three years as the starter for Rodgers to grow into a Super Bowl caliber quarterback. In three years we are going to have to look at other positions that are getting, and by then will be, old. By then we will need new offensive tackles and cornerbacks for sure and who knows how long some of the younger guys speed works out. In all honesty to get a few good years out of guys is all you can hope for in the NFL. Next year our best shot is with Favre.

    Go Pack Go

  • Scotto

    Thanks for clearing the air…..

    By the way…GREAT website!!!!! One of the few fan sites out there (any team, any site) that ..paraphrasing Howard Cosell…”tells it like it is…”. Being exiled in the pro football purgatory that is southwestern Ohio, it’s good to see that there is a website that celebrates (and comiserates with ….) my team!!!!!!

    I have to agree with your comments that we need stability in the O-Line. My only concern is that if the unthinkable happens and (gasp…) Favre calls it a career, I’m not sure that Rodgers is the long-term answer….

    I think he has the ability – as his “baptism by fire” down in Dallas this year was impressive. I’m concerned about his durability…Maybe it’s just me, but it appeared that every other week he appeared on the injury report. So, no Favre, no Rodgers, what then?

    I have to echo Scott T.’s comments in that our best hope of returning to the NFC Championship game (and beyond..) in 2008 is if #4 returns. If he doesn’t, although the supporting cast performed admirably at times, I think a more realistic expectation is .500 (or slightly higher) – perhaps backing into the playoffs.

    GO PACK!!!!!!!

  • Richard Krause

    I only observed Favre with a scared look on his face in 3 games this year, Dallas, in Chicago and in GB last Sunday. I feel he has lost that KILLER instinct, when either the odds or the weather conditions are against us.

  • simon

    rodgers cant play half a game without geting hurt
    we need new corner backs
    and yes you can draft late and get good o-line man look at the colts and pats

  • Reid

    What are the statistics on Favre’s performance in close playoff games in the 4th quarter? How many times has he led the team to a TD or FG in the 4th quarter when they were tied or behind in the playoffs VS How many times has he not? We all have opinions, how about some facts?

  • Tim

    My god Al, take your meds please. talk about a change in personalities. Seek help!

  • Reid

    If you all can figure out how to watch this, I think it’s the Cowboys’ version of Al : )

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2triiYXSY8

    We love you, man!

  • packfan4eva

    Al,
    I kind of feel the same way about Favre. I heard Frank Tarkington on the radio this morning talking about how great Quarterbacks wouldn’t have thrown a pass like favre did at the end of that game. He wasn’t saying he wasn’t a great QB. He was just saying how favre does stupid things at critical times. I love Favre too, but we are building around a young team and I feel that now is the perfect time to get Rodgers in the mix. I would sacrifice a trip to the super bowl for a couple more years to develop a long term successful team. I dont want favre to leave in a couple of years from now and Rodgers to have left because he waited so long and then we’re stuck with no one to QB our team….I went through long enough years of bad packer teams with the Randy Wright’s of the world and dont want to go through that again. I think that to continue to develop a team with a 39 year old QB with a young team like ours doesn’t seem to make sense and the question will always be if he comes back…”can he win the big games anymore?” I have a hunch that the new CEO will put pressure on Teddy to work with Favre to ask him to leave quietly….I think Mark Murphy is the only one who can think with his feelings getting in the way because he is new here…and hasnt developed a bond with favre or any other players for that matter.
    If Favre comes back I will be happy, but will always wonder if he will stumble in the big games. If he doesn’t comeback I will also be happy, knowing that Rodgers will finally get his chance….It would be like the Steve Young after Montana story and we know how well that turned out.
    My only other complaint is that Teddy doesn’t spend money….we have something like 25 million under the cap….lets do something with some of it….I think a fresh CEO like Murphy will help to move this team along to the next level not for one year but for the long-term….
    Go Pack….you gave us lots of fun times this year!
    I will be rooting for Giants to beat my local team the Patriots (yes I am from RI)…..Those Patriots fans are way too cocky and needs to be put in their place and feel some pain like we did….

  • GoPackGo

    Fran Tarkenton , now that is sure a guy to judge Brett , that loser is a 4 time super bowl loser!
    Favre’s record in close playoff games is good.
    1993 .28-24 last minute win in Detroit on Favre to Sharpe TD pass.
    1994 16-12 win against the Lions.
    1997. A win in Frisco in a game that was a 10 point game untill late in the game.
    2001 . win against 49ers in Lambeau.
    2003 . overtime win against Seattle.
    There are you facts.

  • JerseyPackFan

    Hey Al,

    From one Al to another, thanks for the great website. I’m stuck here in NJ 5 minutes from Giants Stadium and still hearing it from the Giant fans. Your site at least lets me escape this place and read about my Pack. Yes Favre wasn’t good on Sunday, but he wasn’t his typical horrible self. He threw 1 “Favre” ball that got picked and fumbled on the same play. The OT interception was a bad pass and a good play by the CB. He wasn’t forcing it that time. Also, Favre gets alot of blame for the 4th and 26 game, but if the defense makes the stop, we aren’t talking about his OT interception. Man, if Sherman goes for it on 4th and inches with Ahman Green at the Eagles 40, we don’t punt into the end zone and the Eagles never even see the ball again. As for this past Sunday, the play calling was horrible. McCarthy abandoned the run too early and what happened to the misdirection plays that worked on the first 2 plays of the game. We never saw them again after that drive stalled. Listen, we only have 4 players on the roster that are over 30 (Favre, Harris, Woodson, and KGB) and if you told me in August that we would have lost the NFC Championship Game, I would have asked where to sign up. This is a team that has a chance to be good for a long time. I know our leader is aging. But remember all those losses to the Cowboys in the 90s. Every year, we took another step closer and the team grew until it finally won the big one. Well, we are close now. Next year, lets get past this point. Thats the new goal! GO PACK GO!!!

  • Dave

    I just wanted to say that I completely agree with you when you say that it is in the best interest of the Green Bay Packers for Brett Favre to retire. The Packer are a very young team and have years of success ahead of them. If Favre comes back for another year A-Rod is, in my opinion, unlikely to stay here in GB once his contract expires. #16 had a great pre-season and played to win in the Packers biggest game of the season(the Cowboys game). The only thing that prevented a tick in the “W column” against the Cowboys was the fact he didn’t have enough time and our defense was missing key players which didn’t allow us to play in our normal man to man coverage. The two biggest arguments I see to the Aaron haters (Brett Favre lovers) out there are: 1 – He hasn’t proven anything, 2 – He’s injury prone. My response to that is 1 – The Cowboys game. By that I mean that was the biggest regular season game that we played, it was on national TV, and the hype was HUGE. He came out and played smart, using our talented receiving core to pick away at the yardage taking what the defense was giving. 2 – You can’t blame the guy for breaking an ankle against the ‘Pats in ’06, that’s a freak injury that could happen to anyone. The only other injury the guys had is pulling a hamstring. This is no big deal, this could just be from not stretching enough before practice, in other words this is something that will/can be completely recovered from and is also something that is easily prevented.

    Back to the topic of Brett retiring. I love Brett Favre, and there is no-doubt in my mind that he is one of the most memorable, fun-loving, and exciting QBs to ever play the game at a professional level. However, for the better of the future of the Packers we need to have our young QB progressing along with our young team. I wouldn’t be extremely disappointed if Favre comes back for another year, because let’s face it he’s a blast to watch, but I believe it’s would be detrimental to the teams future.

    One other note, I wonder if anyone else noticed the Giants were stacking the box to prevent us from running the ball. In a case where the defense is doing that the passing game needs to start to produce to free up the run game. So, those of you that are quick to blame the run game, don’t forget that sometimes you just need the passing game to get going in order to open up the run game. From what I saw this was one of those times and the passing game failed to do so.

  • Pfan

    A great site despoiled by your bandwagon mentality. You should have kept your whiny voice off it. Root for the Vikings – at least you will have something in common with their fans.

  • http://packsmack.blogspot.com PackSmack

    Great line about Terry Bradshaw! Funny.

    And: you put up a site, you put the effort into writing content for it and maintaining it, you got a viewpoint or an opinion, you get to say it. Is this a great country, or what?

  • Reid

    GoPackGo – thanks for the info. I also remember a game at Frisco when Favre led us to the go-ahead touchdown, only to have Jerry Rice’s (non)fumble missed call and the defense letting T.O. catch the game winner as time expired. Not sure the year, maybe 1998 or 1999?

    I agree on the Tarkenton comments, that’s like Chad Johnson criticizing someone for being a showboat.

  • PackerNona

    If that pass had been a reception, we’d be in the SuperBowl. That’s what I love about Brett. He is not afraid to take chances and look how many times they have lead to touchdowns. Quit beating him up. We need him back next year.

  • Steve

    I really dont understand how this is a true packer fan website. Some of you people on here actually have the stupidity to judge brett and suggest a change at QB. Need I remind some of you people that this team would be among the worst all time if it wasn’t for what Brett has done these last 2 decades. I know you people claim to be appreciative of what he has DONE PREVIOUSLY, but understand this, you would have not been watching green bay in the play offs last sunday if it wasnt still for BRETT FAVRE!! If you think the Packers are better off without Brett at quarterback, please do your families a favor and do not quit your day jobs for a career that has anything to do with sports analysis. If Brett does not come back next year have fun doing whatever you do during the play offs, because you so called packer fans will not be watching green bay during the month of january. I am not calling out everyone on this site, just the ones who place blame and doubt on Brett. He is our quarterback, our leader, and a living legend. Of all his great seasons, this 07 season ranks among his all time bests, and still some call for his retirement. I do not understand why?? Anyone who wishes for his retirement is just an example of WEAK individuals who cant deal with failure and need a scape goat to make them feel better. I dont know if Brett or anyone in his family reads these messages but if they do, believe me, the world wants to see you throw that football in 08. With Brett at quarterback is Green Bays only chance of having success. I do not speak based on Bias, I say this because it is the facts.

  • Fritz

    Al,
    Could have saved yourself some grief if you would have said it this way in the first place. I don’t agree but we have the right to have different opinions.
    Frits

  • Pete H

    Nice job GoPackgo Lets not forget the Super bowl against the Broncos. I remember Favre hitting Freeman square in the chest at the twenty yard line in that last drive, only to have it bounce off. Favre was set to be the game mvp. He even played well against Dallas all those times. In these last playoff losses it has been a complete team meltdown. In the Atl. game there was a punt that bounced off of a Falcon that changed the game that Sherman never reviewed. The Vikings went in for three straight tds to open up the game, with very little effort. You can’t blame Favre for the Rams fiasco because his ints were when they were already getting hammered, and even then 2 went off of Ahman’s hands and one went off of Bubba’s. The 4th and 26 debacle began when Sherman shriveled on 4th and 1 from the forty and punted, letting a defense that had blown all year do it again. This year, they just couldn’t run the ball. When it is that cold, you have to be able to run..plain and simple. They werew thoroughly beaten in every phase, and lost in ot. The pass in ot wasn’t a crazy Favre pass that we have seen in the past..even earlier in the game. It was a good choice, it was just 3 feet to the wrong side. Driver may go yard if the throw was there. Yes, it was a bad throw…but not a crazy throw.Somebody please point out to FRAN that he had one of the best defenses EVER and couldn’t get the job done…what a putz. I agree Al, and this game showed, that they need some guards who move people when they know that we are going to try to move them. Wahle and Rivera were tough losses, but I don’t blame Thompson for not signing them. Neither has done a thing since leaving. We would probably be looking for guards now anyway. it also left us way under the cap. I think that is a spot where you can go out on the market and get the best available guy to plug that hole. They are a solid, young, deep team, that just didn’t quite do it. I am not sold on Grant either. Not that he can’t be the guy, and I hope he is..I like him, but I have seen way too many guys come out of nowhere and go right back in to nowhere. I think Mccarthy and Thompson will get this done. Packfan4eva…how can you say you would trade a super bowl trip for competitiveness. The Super bowl is the whole point. And the last time I looked 13-3 was pretty competitive. This can’t win the big game crap is thrown around way too much. they said about Peyton…til last year. They said it about Elway…til ’97. They said it about Young, Kelly, Marino. Cmon…its hard to win it all. do you think any of those teams would trade the slop they have now for those guys? Only one QB each year wins the big one. He can still play with anybody. 2nd in MVP balloting proves that.

  • Todd C.

    Wow – I get the feeling we got closet Bears/Vikings posing as Packer fans here. Once Al starts piling it on Favre, they come on in and add to the misery. Good lord, the reason why so many folks are taking this game so hard is they were OVERCONFIDENT. Man, there were folks making plans for Arizona last week! Man that’s just plain arrogant. The Giants have a 53 man roster and had a chance to show they could play. And they did. But a lot of Packers fans just plain dismissed them. And now that the Packers got beat, the world is going to end. Eat your crow and get over it.

    I guess as I have gotten older I have learned to take it a game a time, no matter how good / bad the team is I root for. When the Packers lost that game to the Eagles several years ago in the championship I had a very similar reaction that some Packers fans are having right now. Pure vitriol and irrationalism. VENT, VENT, VENT…

    I am a Packers fan, always have been a Packers fan, and have no plans to change my allegiance period. They lost. It sucks. Get over it. There is a new season ahead and #4 will be back. That’s what I am looking forward too. A young team just gained a HEAP of experience this season. They will be better next year.

    And I really believe had Brady not played like Superman all year long until last week (3 int’s) Favre would have RUN AWAY WITH THE MVP.

    TC

  • William

    Al – If Favre comes back, can I buy your season tickets from you?

  • Cody Horton

    Reid, that game was a divisional round of the 98-99 season.
    Al, that game that we lost to frisco should be on your top three list, at #2. Had we won that game, we would have had the superbowl in the bag with revenge against the broncos. The 4th & 26 game really sucked too, i would put this loss at # 4 behind the superbowl, the san fran game, and the 4th and 26.
    I don’t know how many times ive said this, but Favres pick in OT wasn’t, I REPEAT WAS NOT a bad throw. He threw it to the outside and had driver caught it, it could have very easily been a touchdown. BUT a SECOND STRING corner made a GREAT play and picked it off. Had Favre thrown it further outside it would have been incomplete, he went for it and the d came up big. O WELL!
    I respect your opinion a lot Al, but i disagree with you on the whole Favre deal. Sorry, but i think that with Favre we have a superbowl in the bag next year. Rodgers needs another year to toughen up. He plays for 5 min and hurts himself, not a good thing. Should be an interesting off-season, i hope that TT doesn’t stray too far from what he had done though because it is clearly working! We do need an Oline that can block, im sure thats priority number one for TT and the front office.

  • Pete H

    Cody, good call about the three being worse than this. i might even throw the first Dallas championship game in there when they had the lead in the fourth. I disagree with how Thompson should do this. I don’t want to develop another young o-lineman. They have the money, go get the best one out there and fill the hole. Remember why we lost that game to Dallas? Up the middle. Wolf then went out and got Dotson, Robinson, and moved Koonce inside..problem solved…super bowl ring. I love how he builds for the future, but when you are on the cusp, and windows are only open for a short time, sometimes you just fill the hole now. Thompson did do it with Woodson, now he needs to do it here.

  • Scott W.

    I’m thinking those that have dumped on Favre in this forum are very young. I’m old enough to remember Bart Starr and I recall very clearly the desolate wasteland of QB’s the Packers had throughout the 70′s and 80′s. Favre is a God send to the Packers organization on so many levels. His leadership both on the field and in the locker room are invaluable. For a team as young as the Packers, that is HUGE. Yes, he’s made some poor throws in his career but that does not, in my opinion, diminish his greatness. Brett’s going to the the Hall of Fame for a reason folks.

    Brett is not perfect, but he has achieved excellence as a quarterback.

  • Matt H

    Wait a second…agreed Favre throws bad ball to end magical play-off run…no dispute here…but how greedy are we?

    Without Favre we don’t even make it to the playoffs…
    We don’t beat the Chargers (seam pass to Jennings, 85 yd TD with 2 minutes left).
    We don’t beat the Vikes at the dome – 35 yd TD pass to Jones w/5 minutes left
    We don’t beat Denver – OT bomb to Jennings
    We don’t beat KC – 60 yd. bomb to Jennings with 3 minutes left
    We don’t beat Detroit on Thanksgiving – Favre had a near perfect day, 20 straight completions, 381 yards and 3 TDs…especially given how tough the Lions are on Thaksgiving…he was almost flawless that day…

    Say what you want about not winning the big game, but you have to get there first and hands down…no questions asked, this young team doesn’t even make the playoffs without Favre… NO WAY “A-Rod” makes all those plays…

    If we are honest this is barely an above average football team…O-Line, average. TE’s, below average. RB’s average. WR’s – top tier. D-Line- Above average. LB’s – Average to slghtly above. CB’s – above average, not great. Safety’s – Average, we’ll see with Bigby coming on…

    but seriously…let’s not kid ourselves…they would have finished 8-8 at best without Favre. No playoffs, period.

    For me, still at this stage of his career, I’d take Favre over any other QB to win one game, aside from Brady and Manning…He’s still a top 3 QB in the league.

    We have lived and died by the Favre for 17 years…He’s either gonna throw a TD or a pick to win a close game…God, I can only pray we get to watch him fling it for one more year…If he comes back, I think they get it done next year. I will be frst to predict a Super Bowl victory in ’09 for your Green Bay Packers (Pats will lose alot due to cap and retirements), Jags or Chargers will be who we face in the SuperBowl…Dallas is the biggest challenge in the NFC, but I’m a believer – GO Pack Go! Championship ’09!!!

  • Rick

    As far as Brett retiring or not. I say not. We have to decide whether it is an open challenge for starting QB between Aaron and Brett. If Brett will not go for that then we trade him to the Falcons and he can end his career where it started and we aquire crucial extra picks and cap space. If he is okay with a wide open QB competition than let the best man win. He probably will win but you can see what Aaron can do. My fear is Brett retires and you get nothing for him and Aaron breaks a foot bone and can’t play. Can you say Falcons this year after the Vick and Schaub debacle?!

    Brett was scared, you could see it. He was cold and tired and did not make a great throw, but he had the ENTIRE 2nd half to make some kind of drive and could not. If Rodgers looks good but Brett is better, than you have depth in one of the hardest positions to get it in. Who backs up Tom Brady or Tony Romo or Eli? There is a drop off on those teams that we don’t have right now.

  • Jon

    No football team should win a game, much less the NFC Championship game, with 29 yards of rushing offense.

    That Green Bay was even in that game so long is testament to Favre’s ability to carry a team; no other quarterback can or could have done that.

    New York outplayed Green Bay from the very beginning of the game to the very end, and should have won by much more than 3 points. From New York’s first possession, when Burress was toasting Harris, I knew Green Bay would lose.

    Sir, why don’t enlighten us all and identify for us all the quarterbacks in the history of the NFL who have won a title game with 29 yards of rushing offense? Can you name even one?

    We await your answer with bated breath.

  • Jon

    Frankly, I am tired of all this bashing of Favre and worship of Elway in the media.

    A look at the career statistics of Favre and Elway places Favre competitive with or better than Elway in every meaningful statistical passing category:

    Career QB Ratings (big edge to Favre):
    Favre 85.7
    Elway 79.9

    Pass Attempts Per TD (big edge to Favre):
    Favre 20
    Elway 24

    Pass Completions Per TD (edge to Favre):
    Favre 12
    Elway 14

    Pass Attempts Per INT (very slight edge to Elway):
    Elway 32
    Favre 31

    Pass Completions Per INT (slight edge to Favre):
    Favre 19
    Elway 18

    TD/INT Ratio (significant edge to Favre in what many consider to be the most important passing statistic):
    Favre 1.5
    Elway 1.3

    In fact Elway threw almost as many INTs as TDs: 226 INTs to 300 TDs.

    It is obvious from this that Favre has been no more prone – and actually less prone – to interceptions than Elway (that’s largely why his career passer rating is significantly higher than Elway’s).

    So then, why does the media adore Elway and overlook his record?

    After all, Elway was the modern-day Fran Tarkenton of the NFL until Shanahan loaded the Broncos with talent and taught Elway how to hand off.

    As for Favre, yeah, his 2007 post-season rating was only 99.0. That sucks. Fire him. Right, Al?

  • Jeremy S

    Most of your thoughts on Favre and the Packers don’t make any sense.

  • Roy Jamison

    Al,
    I can see your points. If the Giants can stop Ryan Grant, maybe the whole league can figure a way to do the same thing. I think the offensive line quality was exposed to the bone in the Giant game. If that line had been able to create holes, the Pack would be in the Super Bowl, not sitting around eating Tostitos and cheese dip. As for Favre, I am on the fence. He had a great year. If he can duplicate it, and the Pack fixes their blocking, I think he should give it another shot. Rodgers, to me, is a good qb, not unlike a Rich Gannon. The bottom line is that there are plenty of fish to fry in fixing the Pack. The cornerbacks are going to have to have replacements soon, because of age or injury or both. We could use another linebacker. And, of course, it wouldn’t hurt to upgrade our Tight end either. Goodbye Bubba!
    Best Regards,
    Roy

  • Jon

    What you all deserve is for Favre to be traded and kick Green Bay’s ass next year.

    Or for Favre to retire and the Packers go 6-10 with all that “talent” they have.

    You all seem to forget that between Starr and Favre, there were 20+ years of nothing.

  • CT-NYC-Pack

    This is my first post, so bear with me. There may be spelling errors.

    I see three different “camps” in this post and the responses. As people said, there are the Favre backers, the A-Rodg “new regime” backers, and the folks who don’t care either way. This may have been said already, and if so, I apologize for the rehash.

    I myself consider myself in the last category. I love, LOVE, LOOOVE Brett Favre. He is everything that is great about the NFL. When things are going right, I mean we’re all high on fire. Throwing bullets to one of the top 5 most talented receiving corps in the league, scoring points, and looking like a kid again, defying his age. McCarthy did reign him in this year it seems, had him follow a game plan, trust his recievers, trust his short throws, etc…When the going is good for a quaterback, it doesn’t get better than Brett Favre leading your team, his WHOLE career.

    When he was younger, and the team needed a shot in the arm, a comeback, a kick in the ass, he was there to give it. We all know Favre is a gunslinger, but when he was younger and was, in fact, mobile (just enough, seriously), he made plays happen on the fly. He could avoid the rush, he could improvise and make something out of nothing. He had the physical gifts and tools that make plays like this happen.

    There are 2 types of quaterbacks in crunch time I think. There are guys who can make something out of nothing, who can defy the odds with their physical tools and force plays to happen. There are also guys who can simply go inside themselves, continue to follow a gameplan, not lose their cool and panic, and simply lead a team down the field inch by inch if need be. Physical prowess for these QB’s is less of a necessity, it’s more of a trust in the 10 other players and not taking risks, and that last point is crucial.

    Favre is a risk taker, and during the Holmgren era most of his risks resulted in huge rewards when they mattered. And when he did screw up, it was comedy for the pre-game shows. Can we say that a lot of these risks paid off given his physical tools: his canon arm, his ability to avoid the rush, his shuffle passes? I think so.

    The Sherman era was a different story. Shermnan’s offense based on power running and throwing the ball downfield worked a lot for Brett. But it certain instances, we began to see his physical tools eroding a bit. We would scratch our head when he would throw a ball in triple coverage and it was incomplete, why whould he take such a risk?!! Defenses were getting faster, and opposing defenses were catching up a bit to him I think. But the game plan was the same, and the risks Favre started to take didn’t seem to pay off as much.

    Now we’re at this year. McCarthy stressed with Favre to follow a game plan, trust his recievers, and good things will happen. And they did. Can anyone really say that Favre, while playing out of his mind this year, was the same Brett Favre? Were there many risks? Triple coverage? Very minimal.

    As soon as McCarthy abandoned the run a bit and when to the big 5, Favre’s passes spent less time in the air and more time in his receivers hands who racked up considerable yards after the catch and made small gains big. He made short, precise, quick throws which gave the opportunity for his receivers to make plays. When Ryan Grant emerged as a back capable of running for the team, we threw some play action there as well. It was considered an “explosive” offense by many pundits.

    Let’s go to the Giants game. It’s cold. Real cold. The gameplan was well, questionable at best, despite McCarthy’s defense of it. Of course NFL coaches plan accordingly given each opponent. But these short, quick passes were nowhere to be seen. Favre was left to go downfield, to the sidelines, and for the most part it wasn’t working.

    If the slants, the hitches, the quick drops and the short passes got you to this spot in the first place, why not use them? Because this regimented, methodical passing attack had abruptly changed, Favre looked a bit lost. Risks again were taken. And this time, they were not rewarded.

    That being said, I still think Brett’s a great quaterback. I will be happy if he comes back, but I question his ability to trust his players with the game on the line and give them the opportunity to make plays. When we’re in a tight spot with the game on the line, the flaws seem to creep up and the mistakes seem to happen.

    Someone brought up Brett’s playoff record and the last game they listed was 2003, overtime against Seattle. That was 5 years ago!

    Favre’s physical tools, aside from his arm, have diminished. He’s definitely not as mobile as he was, which makes his improvisation not as successful. However, when he followed a game plan, he succeeded this past year.

    I must admit, if Aaron Rodgers was playing in the game, I think the offense would have been tailored differently. Aaron, a Tedford QB, is a student of the offense by now. He can do exactly what Favre did in the regular season; make the short, quick, accurate throws, and succeed. I think what comes into question now as to whether we have a QB that can lead us down the field when it becomes dire to do so. I am begining to doubt Favre doing this simply because it’s at this point when the risks have come out the past seasons. I have no sample size for Rodgers, thought I think we’re getting to the point where we need to see what he’s made of.

    While I was critical of Brett, like I said, I’m fine either way. If he does come back, we better either draft a QB (Matt Flynn?) or pluck one out of free agency, because I think Aaron won’t wait forever for his chance, and I don’t blame him.

    Regardless, with the cap room we have, I would hope TT would go out and address some of our needs (bolster the secondary, a solid guard, and upgrade to Poppinga) and make the supporting cast better.

    Sorry for the long post, but this has been one my mind since the game was over!!

  • Jeff

    At the age of 38, with suspect and rotating guards, a spotty running attack (Grant’s long runs masked the fact that we didn’t run the ball consistently at all against solid teams), the youngest(?) team in the league and a coaching staff in its first year together, Favre helped fight the best team in the NFC to a standstill in spite of very solid play by the Giants on offense, defense and special teams, stupid penalties by our defense, the inability to cover New York’s wideouts, poor play calling, bungled screen passes, and a grand total of 29 yards rushing.

    Does anybody recall the last time the Giants played New England – a team some think might be the best offense ever? Do you think those New York guys just might be pretty good?

    Yeah, Favre screwed up pretty dramatically, and if somebody had been able to get open and make a first down sometime in our last two drives or if we could have run the ball at all, we would be going to Arizona. It’s a very young team; it was a brutal game against the best of competition, and we came up just a touch short. Can we dispense with the dramatics? This was a hell of a year!

    For a historical note – give Elway 29 yards rushing and he goes into retirement without a single ring.

    Rogers might well become a fine QB. He certainly seems to have the skills, but he’s yet to demonstrate that he can withstand the physicality of the NFL. If Favre wants to come back, I’ll be overjoyed to see him. If not, it’s been a hell of a ride, and I hope somebody coming in can become even a shadow of what he’s meant to us.

  • Jon

    Jeff wrote: “For a historical note – give Elway 29 yards rushing and he goes into retirement without a single ring.”

    Exactly.

    I have said the same thing.

    Indeed I have asked Al (a/k/a “I Hate Favre” ) to identify the last team that rushed for 29 yards total offense in an NFC or AFC title game and win, and guess what? Yep, still waiting for an answer from the genius.

  • Jon

    Jeff wrote: “For a historical note – give Elway 29 yards rushing and he goes into retirement without a single ring.”

    Exactly.

    I have said the same thing.

    Indeed, I have asked Al (a/k/a “I Hate Favre” ) to identify the last team that rushed for 29 total yards in an NFC or AFC title game and won, and guess what? Yep, I’m still waiting for an answer.

    I’m also waiting for an answer as to why those who want Favre to retire (hi Al) don’t want him traded? Wouldn’t trading Favre for several draft picks and/or players benefit Green Bay far, far more than Favre simply retiring?

    Of course it would.

    So how come the Favre haters never mention trading him? Are they afraid he’ll kill Green Bay next year? Are they afraid he’ll win it all next year while Green Bay, with its 29-yard rushing offense, goes 6-10?

  • Jeff

    Given the firebombs that have been thrown around here, I’m not shocked that Al isn’t responding within this space. It’s pretty clear he doesn’t hate Favre. He just differs from a lot of us on the best way for the Packers to win next year. We only have this forum due to Al’s graces and good work; While I disagree with him, I won’t be talking smack about him. A trade might be an interesting conversation – “Hey, Brett. We need you to do one last thing for the team. Allow us to trade you someplace into the AFC – someplace warm – and get a couple picks for you.”

    Of course, if we’re just going to get another Justin Harrell, why bother?

    Obsessive as it sounds, I went back and watched every offensive play. It’s painfully clear that our O-line was unable to effectively run block or properly set a screen. The Giants front seven totally owned us in those areas.

    Yes, there were several points where Favre made poor throws – his INT that Tauscher recovered, the 50 yard toss on 2nd and ten into triple coverage, the miss to Jennings in the end zone (personally, I think he was interfered with on that play), but on the whole in that crappy weather, he played pretty well given that the Giants KNEW they had our running game stoned and the play calling sucked – what the hell was with those screens to Robinson? or that screen to Grant 7 yards behind the line when we were on the 13? Why the hell were we going 20 yards down field with 6 minutes to go and the score tied? Why are we forever throwing short of the first down marker to receivers that are very well-covered?

    But plain and simple fact – if we had run the ball and won the challenge on two screen plays, we’d be in Packer Heaven this weekend facing a chance at glory. Does Favre need more help than he did ten years ago? That seems likely. Is he the problem? I really don’t think so.

    So go out and improve the O-line no matter who is going to QB next year. Get the best athletes you can find and tailor the system to their strengths instead of being married to a scheme regardless of your available personnel – my biggest beef with our coaching.