You guys just can’t let it go . . . one guy gets in here and makes a cautionary statement about getting ahead of ourselves, and it’s back to all the same old garbage. See ya.

OK, I have not said anything for a while, but I have to now.
MATT, I think that you make a GOOD point, we shouldn’t get ahead of ourselves. I completly agree with that! I think that Rodgers is very young, but is the right man for the job. He has what it takes to get the job done. I don’t think that there are stooges in our front office, but I understand where you are coming from!
Everyone out there who ripped Matt, you all owe him an apology! He only said what everyone is feeling, well part of it. We don’t have a tested backup, we have beaten two teams who have yet to win a game (granted, the vikes are ok.. cant believe i said that! and we always struggle at ford field), so lets NOT get ahead of ourselves.

I fully believe in this team, and I really think that we will beat the Cowboys this week, but it wont be the end of our superbowl dreams if we don’t. I am looking at this week more as a measuring stick for the regular season, not for the post season. As someone said earlier, we wooped the Giants in week two, they won the superbowl.
That all said, Arod will have a good game, if he continues to play mistake free football, our offense will put up points on that d, especially with roy williams out. Bigby should be ready to play, and I think the only way to stop witten is to have a safety or corner on him. T.O. should be doubled all game. Those are there only two recieving threats, so if our d line can stop barber and jones, we will be fine. Oh, and our special teams play will be important this week, we will need to cover felix jones very well, i was not aware that the kid return kicks so well until i watched him dismember the phili special teams unit.
my two cents…

Hey Oconomowockid……. Could you please share your thoughts as to where and why TT and MM are failing so I can share my two cents in why or why not your thinking may or may not be right according to my thinking. Sometimes, I think fans seem to think that it’s an easy task just to line up and win every week……. I like a good debate.

Advocate,
Don’t give yourself so much credit about taking the fun out of posting. You have probably just taken the fun out of it just for yourself. There is no point to discuss the current managements pros or cons, since it has been covered on this board countless times. You are not stirring anything up, that has not been stirred up many times before. My point is that Packer fans are never all going go view every player, coach, or GM the same. They are no less or more of a Packer fan whatever view point they advocate.

Oconomowockid,

I think I tend to take the fun out cause most people like to type a line or two of some rah!,rah!, and I wanna dig alot deeper than they tend to want too….. You know, I can see this whole faction of people who have jumpped off the bandwagon or are hanging on along the sides, and if the Pack go and win a SB, I can see them all jumping right back on and acting like they’ve always been there. I can see this same faction just holding back and waiting to leap on TT and MM after some bad times also. I could see them doing both. I could see a SB win followed by a bad year and the rabid wolves will start howling. All I can say, is if they manage to drag down TT/MM and no GM’s/coaches want to come to GB anymore because of the way they treat you…………………. and we get stuck with Millen as GM and Marrinelli as coach, cause they’re the only ones who’ll take the job, I’m gonna be pissed!

I will say that faction has acted like a bunch of kids on a schoolbus to a driver they don’t like. As far as being a Packer fan, the Packers are a company and everyone is inter-linked. If you liked Harlan, well, he hired TT. Say you don’t like Shottenheimer, well, MM hired him. So now, do you start breaking it down into what bits and pieces, actions, etc. it is you don’t and do like of the Packers??? What if the players start pointing fingers instead of accepting results as a team???

I personally just don’t understand and have been trying understand all the negativity and nastiness. Try as I might it just doesn’t come to me, so I just don’t know what clicked for the bunch of you that didn’t trigger in me. “Albino Ted” is just some down-right MEAN name calling!!! I gave the guy a couple posts prior a “dumbshit”, not that I believe name calling will get us anywhere, but just so he’d get a little taste.

So anyway, try to pretend like your trying to sway me to your side the the equation, and tell me what it is that I’d need to know, so I could convert.

Ok, working from hind-sight, of which TT and MM don’t have the luxury of, I can make an argument the other way, cause there’ll always be two sides to everything.

That DT is on an 0-2 team right now that experts predicted would finish pretty well this season. Guess he needs to step up, huh??? But it’s a bit early to be assessing his play there as it WAY TOO early to be assessing rookies. TT/MM may train Brohm up into a top notch player and trade him for a whole bunch of draft picks in a few years and start on the next QB.
BOTH sides handled it poorly, I don’t know that it’s not a mess no matter how you handle it. What would you have done?
I agree on the money, I think they still need a stud or two. But it’s there to resign players if they put together a championship team, cause they’re gonna want some money then. Moss, I wished he had signed Moss. After having seen him play all those games and what he did to the Pack, I thought a 3rd rounder was cheap for that kind of talent. Then again, a ton of poeple were calling in their threats about if he got Moss and don’t forget, he was a character issue at the time. N.E. had Moss, they didn’t win the SB. Tough call, plain and simple!!!
NFC game last year, yeah…….. Should have ran more, should have adjusted the pass defense some. Can’t really disagree any…… I also didn’t think Favre looked very good.
Game last week, up 21-0 til, the WR’s starting dropping passes, which stalled drives and more important, stalled the clock. Maybe MM figured it best to try and run the clock/game down faster w/runs and take his chances. We all know it’s not a good idea to let a game drag out too long against a team that’s the underdog and playing at home.
Ah, in a perfect world…………. everything is so simple. Seems the fans anymore, have already read from articles the probable outcome to most games. I don’t know why they play them anymore. Can they just feed the info into a computer and post the results…?

After Pete H.’s post, I think it finally came to me…………. Alot of the people having trouble w/TT and MM are “past tenser’s”!!!!!!!!! After a play has been run (season, decisions, etc.), they look at it from a past tense perspective……… “They should have did this” or “they should have called this play instead”. If your Favre or Rodgers, you have plays (seasons, decisions, etc.) in present tense. No way of knowing if what you see on defense if correct or just what they want you to see…… Then over and over again…. many, many times a game, season, etc., the ball gets hiked and split second decisions get made. Players slip, run wrong routes, fumble, etc. That’s why they play the games!!!!!!!! So if these people continue to look at stuff from a past perspective they’ll never see the difficulty in the present’s decisions and understand them to look ahead. Now, I don’t know if Pete H. has looked ahead to venture a guess as to how he thinks that Brohm kid will turn out????????? Maybe he won’t think about it for a couple years and base his thoughts on what he thinks of TT/MM at that time????? Maybe he lets the future give him his past tense perspective after a few years??? He did mention what he see’s for this year. One thing about never predicting the future, in predicting the past, your always right. Works well if you always like to be right!!!! My thoughts on Brohm, yes I like the challenge and welcome opportunity to be put on record, I think four years of college ball don’t lie on his part. He’s in an excellent situation (doesn’t have to start) with a pretty darn good coach. I see them trading him in 2-3 years when another highly rated QB slides to them again. Probably for a 1st and 2nd rounder to some QB desperate team.

Devils Advocate, I have been ignoring replying to you because you are bringing up useless arguments that we don’t need to focus on right now, we all did that for the past 6 months. But, you just bashed people for being ‘past tensers’ and not being ‘present tensers’, but now you are being a speculator, or in your words, a ‘future tenser’. Saying how Brohm will turn out is all speculation, I’m not saying that I disagree with you, what I am saying is that if you are going use that arguement, then you shouldn’t contradict yourself. I believe the saying goes, “practice what you preach” or something like that…
BUT!!! Please drop all of this nonsense about mm/tt/favre/all of the above.
The bottom line is, debate that someplace else, this is for the here and now. The here and now facts are that we are 2-0 with the youngest team in the NFL, and we are facing superbowl contenders this weekend. So lets focus on that, shall we?

I think, over time, you’ll appreciate the Brohm and Flynn picks. We have a history of developing backup QBs that end up starting for other teams after trade. These two both have credentials to be NFL starters. Think Hasselbeck, Brunell, Detmer, and Brooks. They have value, guys, beyond a backup behind Rodgers. Point is well taken that the DT to Browns is playing on an 0-2 team highly regarded before the season. In any case we probably keep only one, but the other is money in the bank. Also, we have the cash to persue a “Reggie”; unfortunatly there aren’t any out there. With the WRs we have what a waste of money Moss would have been. The OL (problem?) will settle down once everyone gets healthy – thank God we have the depth. (How about kudos to TT on that?) 53 men not 22 thats the number that counts.

Matt Flynn is the real deal, I live in SEC County and LSU would not have the National Championship without him

As far as Williams goes. Are you really going to point out that they are 0-2 as a reason that they shouldn’t have kept him?? Cmon. Oh I forgot that he catches the passes and runs the ball and blocks and covers receivers…my bad. I also read that “Moss wouldn’t have done anything for us in the playoffs” How do you know? Do you not think that the Giants would have had to play just a little differently on defense. Maybe Martin wouldn’t have been on the field to drop that ball…Maybe we would have had home field throughout and played the Giants a week earlier…blah blah blah who cares!! Point is you can’t say that with any amount of accuracy. As far as how good Corey Williams is really…truth is I don’t know, but he played well with the players we have here, in this scheme. I do know that he wouldn’t be on the bench, barring an emergency. I do know that Harrell is a fat piece of crap….another piece of evidence for TT that I trashed from the get go here…..and that we are facing a probable suspension there as well. AS far as who else they could have sigined….how about a guard…maybe Faneca??? would look a whole lot better than the revolving door at the guard spot since TT has been here. And no, I am not saying they should have kept Wahle or Rivera. I amsaying that he has done poorly in replacing them. By the way, as far as living in the past and this is for here and now blah blah blah…..it is the past that has this team where it is now…good and bad. My opinions on moves are directly relevant to THIS team NOW and I am not just going to sip the TT kool aid and back everything he does 100%. I appreciate what he has accomplished here, but I am a fan and a season ticket holder and am completely capable of having an opinion…and sharing it. I don’t think it is fair for those of you to blast others as not being fans because they don’t agree with you. This place has held some very valid and interesting arguments, some civilized and some not so much, but all between REAL Packer fans!

Those who constantly carp at TT over drafting are short sided to say the least. TT “drafted” MM who kept or hired Bennett, Moss, Robinson, Hairston, and Kurt. Probably the real gem on the staff is Stock. If you dont regard this group the class of the NFL you havent been around very long. Season ticket holders, especially, should be aware of this. As to the players, thats always a crap shoot. Theres not a doubt in my mind that the draft is a consensus of the above and not TT alone. Face it this team matches up with Dallas, Pats, and Chargers and may well be the best balanced. You dont win them all because of ball bounce, refs, injuries, and flat out mistakes. However, this team has it all guys; this is going to be a fun ride, enjoy!

Points well taken, but how could Jordy start yet with the vets we have? He was a 2nd rounder. Jury is still out on Harrell although it doesnt look very good.

I don’t think I bashed anyone or questioned their loyalty as a fan. I’ve kept things to the debate. Although I did come down on the name callers pretty hard some months back.

To further the debate I missed that you pointed out Faneca. Ok that would have been 1 player you could say would help this team, who else? The offensive line is playing pretty good right now, maybe the coaching staff thinks they have guys that can develop into being as good as Faneca.

I think Moss can be trusted to put up good stats and help you win games, but I don’t think he can be trusted to be reliable all the time because he quits when he feels like it and he quit in the play offs last year. You don’t know what your getting from him all the time. I’d rather have Greg Jennings than Randy Moss and if we had both Jennings and Moss then Jennings wouldn’t have gotten the playing time to devlop into what he has become.

Look guys, I appreciate the calming rhetoric. On most points I agree with you completely. I would rather have Jennings out there now and I wouldn’t want Moss long term, but he would have come to play for Favre and I just think that for that one year….and yes it is hindsighted, I’m sure TT thought with the rest of us that they weren’y there yet…but he gets paid to know those things and I don’t….for that one year he puts them over the top. Just picture your 3 spread last year being Moss, Jennings and Driver…They have 3 WRs on the field more often than not anyway. After that they could have walked away from him, still just as far under the cap now to lock up our guys, but knowing that the best shot at winning last year was taken. Yes, this team is extremely well balanced, on both sides, and I think they can match up with anyone. I love this team, and Rodgers, all I was doing was pointing out, mostly to Advocate, some evidence that people could have to not like TT. I didn’t even say that I don’t like him, just that I have some reservations because I disagree with some of his moves thus far. He has put together a hell of a team, and staff, I just think he gets hell bent on finding the hidden jewel sometimes. I mean most of his picks so far have been truly fliers, other than Hawk. Even Rodgers to some degree, was a flier for them.

Yeah, Pete, we all commit a little GB heresy now and then. How great thou art, but St. Vincent Lombardi left us in the biggest mess we ever had…………..I’m sure sticking with these guys now tho.

Matt – In the early years of football, helmets were leather and had no facemasks, so no one used their head/helmet as a weapon. But with the introduction of the high impact plastic helmets and facemasks, the head became more of a weapon. Problem is, a helmet can produce a devastating injury, and high speed helmet to helmet contact (especially against a QB who is standing still and looking somewhere else) can prove life threatening, or at least career ending. So the rule is probably a good one, and fairly evenly called, as far as I can tell. Sure, there will be differences of opinion as to some of the calls. That goes with the game.

Jack,

Thanks for the history lesson. I have been hit plenty of times with the modern helmets. It hurts and it can suck but it definitely is part of the game. There are risks and players get paid very, very well to take them. I don’t believe they are unnecessary risks because they are part of the game. Sometimes there are bad breaks and we are reminded that football is a violent sport.

Let’s keep football a violent sport and not degrade it to “fag” football status.