Relax everybody. Yeah, the Packers have a lot of things to fix. Maybe they get them fixed this year. Maybe they don’t. Injuries have hurt us. And we started out thin at several key positions. McGinn’s column on the ineffectiveness of the zome blocing scheme was intersting, although the Packers seemed to run the ball a little better today. The Pack probably wo’t be in the title hunt thi syear. But with expecttations having been lowered somewhat, we can still all look forward to an intersting season, seeing this young team develop and maybe improve. Let’s not be fair weather fans, huh? Imagine how hard it must have been to be a Bears fan or Lions fan over the last 10 years. Even the Vikings have never won a Super Bowl, although I believe they have appeared in 4 (none recently). Let’s all hope ARod heals quickly, an dthe Pack figures out a way to win soon with the guys we have.

Packers 24 points
Falcons 17 points
Refs 10 points

What’s with the Special Teams? I have been raving about them last year and the 1st couple of games this, and now I’m somewhat embarased. The injury bug shouldn’t have hurt these units because they’re not usually staffed by starters anyway. I’m down here in Texas so can’t watch the games. Please help me, explain!

Dear Al-

I’m sad to hear that you are through…hopefully you will recover and keep Packernet alive just like you did last year after the Giants playoff game….I truly love your site…

Moving on…

Here’s the deal folks…Let me put my finger on what our problem is–
It is actually easy football economics…A great leader makes the players around him better. You take away that player and everyone doesn’t play as well.

If you have every played a team sport, at any level with a star player, you know this to be true. Why? Because you have confidence and believe that no matter what adversity takes place, you have a chance to win the game. It’s electrifying, energizing and contagious…

Without that player, though, you revert back to being mere men…no one plays, as well, I don’t know why, it just is what it is…Special teams, Offensive, Defensive lines, etc..you just end up playing with less confidence which impacts your ability to succeed. Welcome to the next decade people.

This why the 4-12 NY Jets from last year will be 10-6 or better this year and why a 13-3 Packers team from a year ago will be 6-10. It’s just simple football economics.

Al pulls this routine all the time. The writing was on the wall today. It’s going to get a little worse before it gets better. Frankly, a lot of our issues are NOT long term. This team needs to get on a run at some point.

With all due respect, Mr. Hayton, I don’t think confidence has anything to do with the performance the last three weeks. I find it especially encouraging that this team has stayed competitive and focused in spite of being behind the eight ball each game. Yes, they have all been L’s, but I’ve seen fight in everyone right up until the bitter end. The breaks will come, just later in the season.

Matt and Monkeon our problem isn’t that #4 is gone, it’s that our D-line is gone. And, Cali, Farve didn’t quit his team, he wasn’t wanted by TT, ever. He is older and expensive and frankly wouldn’t have solved our bigger problems on defense. KGB is done, Jenkins is out and were down to three useful players Jolly, Kampman and Pickett. We could have easily won the last two games with our D-line from last year. This has to be put at TT’s door. Trade, draft, free agency(we’ve got $12 million extra by dropping #4) something. It may be too late for this year, but don’t blame the wrong people, Farve, Rodgers or MM.

I backed Favre all offseason, but what MM said was that Brett was not able to let it go and be a Packer again, not a football player, but a Packer. I love Brett to death, and I do watch him every week, but this isn’t about him.

WHat difference is that Jon? An offensive line that can block? A defensive line that ca withstand a HOFer retiring, and losing their best one? A running game? A lack of penalties?

The offense scored 24 points and probably could have more if their defense could get off the field. Our problem is not at QB -it’s at d-line which as of yesterday ranked 26th in rush defense.

Atlanta came out and marched right down the field to score. The fundamental problem is their D-line. They get no pressure on the QB with their front four (even when Jenkins was there). Matt Ryan barely got touched yesterday. When Sanders does blitz, if it’s picked up, they get burned down the field. Teams are running right at them and running over their d-line. It seems like a victory when the other team only gets a field goal. Sanders needs to create some clever ways to get the blitz home. I’d rather see them give up the big play on a pass and get it over with than keep the D on the field for 8 minutes at a clip. It’s demoralizing and doesn’t give our O a chance to get into rhythm. The other option is to only rush 0 to 3 guys and put more d-backs out. What’s the use of wasting an extra guy if you can’t get pressure anyway.

With the remaining schedule, I think they will be very lucky to go 8-8 this year. This team suddenly looks and feels like the 1980′s teams.

Anybody who thinks Favre would have been the difference on Sunday is an idiot. The QB position was not the problem. The problem was a defense that could not stop the run, special teams who couldn’t make a tackle, a punter who can’t punt, and an O-line that cannot stop taking penalties.

Favre retired three times. The team has moved on. Too bad some of you are incapable of doing the same.

Don’t let him get your goat CheesyD. Look Jon, don’ts say facts when it is fact … singular. For you to think that that is the one difference between the teams is assenine. I agreed with you on most things this offseason about Brett, but for you to just show up after some losses, and try to make a reference that it is all Brett is also assenine. If Rodgers had been awful, you would have some validity, but he has been every bit as good as Brett was last year…to this point. As you say look at the stats…they don’t lie. If having to mention Favre’s name as much as possible is how you get off then thats fine, go ahead, pleasure yourself all you want, but you will eventually run out of people who will answer you. It really gets boring after a while. The more you blab on and on about Favre and only Favre as the SOLE reason for this teams struggles the more you show a simple lack of basic knowledge of football, which is a shame, because you have a lot to say, and I agreed with you on some of it, but now you are just embarrassing yourself. Too bad..

Jon, boy, when you’re right you’re right… We could be 5-0 right now with Favre at the helm and with a sloppy offensive line, a defense that looks like swiss cheese, a punter with a rubber leg and a starting running back that wears blinders most of the time. He might have been able to score one more touchdown to give us a couple extra wins but then we’d be right where we were last year, we’d have a bunch of wins that we could tag on Mr. Favre’s back but no Superbowl cause this team just isn’t good enough with all the problems we have right now. I really don’t think #4 could fix the problems we have right now. So with that in mind, facts really don’t speak for themselves. The facts are – we’re decimated in our starting lineups and it’s showing. Unless Favre were the GM of the Packers and made different decisions then TT did, he’s basically useless to this team. AR is a good quarterback, needs to be a better leader (sometimes leading by example isn’t ALL that needs to be done). Playing hurt showed the team he has some brass hangies, but it doesn’t make him a veteran leader of this team. He’ll get it, it’ll take a little time, but he’ll get it.

I think fundamental football has been thrown out the window and I think MM is doing all he can with a lineup that TT gave him to work with. They look great one moment and then they look like crap the next, that’s the inconsistency that comes with the immaturity of this team. Hopefully these fill-ins will mature quickly over the next few weeks before it really IS too late.

Bob, I really don’t think the locker room is divided anymore – I think in the beginning the media made a bigger deal out of that than it really was. There were players that understood Favre’s take on what happened, but that doesn’t equate to a divided team. I think the team has really rallied around the new QB as a whole. The mistakes have nothing to do with AR. That has everything to do, in my opinion, with the maturity of this team. Being the youngest team in the NFL is not always a good thing and when you have as many injuries as this team does, the immaturity stands out. We have the MOST false starts on our offensive line of any team in the NFL, that’s not on AR, that’s the maturity of the OL. I think they said we have 15 in all and 10 of those were by the young guys like Colledge and Barbre, guys that were fill ins last year or were rotated in. How many good plays were averted by OL penalties. AR has done a great job only to have a first down or touchdown called back because of an immature play by the OL. That has nothing to do with the locker room and everything to do with immature mental mistakes by the youngest team in the NFL.

Mark, cali cheez and Mr. Legat,

My point isn’t that Favre isn’t a solve all, heal all. He certainly wouldn’t have played Defensive line. My point though is that everyone plays better with a known, trusted, all-pro leader. None of you addressed this point…do you agree or disagree that this team is playing worse this season with the absence of Favre? If you disagree with this point, then what else is the problem with this team? He is clearly the only difference between this team and last years!!! Someone argue this point, because I think it is rather interesting that you have an entire team that is the same as last years that started 4-0, except for 1 player…

As far as injuries on the defensive line, you all seem to forget that Cullen Jenkins was plagued injuries all year long last year and was a shell of himself, recording only 1 sack the entire year and that Ryan Pickett was out for a game or two, and that we had NO RUNNING GAME until week 8 when Grant emerged and still somehow we went 4-0 and 7-1 out of the gate! So don’t give me some BS about injuries.

So last year we had issues on the defensive line from an injury standpoint (although we had Corey Williams in the rotation, which I believe not having an effective replacement – Justin Harrell, is a large factor for our D-Line woes). Last year we couldn’t run block the entire first half of the season and had no running game, yet still, somehow, we were unbeatable, save the Bears game which MM gave away with his conservative playcalling after we jumped out to the big lead…

If it isn’t Favre, what is the difference? Someone please explain?

Furthermore, TT is an idiot…no back-up QB, no depth on the defensive line and an O-Line that sucks all falls squarely on his shoulders and drinking his own koolaid (A-Rod, won’t get injured because he is my boy. Justin Harrell is our answer for D-Line depth, it’s okay to trade away Corey Williams and not bring in Jason Taylor. Darren Colledge, Jason Spitz and Tony Moll are the answers for our O-Line because look at how well we ran the ball the 2nd half of last year…and my draft picks are the answer for everything! I’m TT, the GM of the year, I can do no wrong!!! Fire his sorry butt!!! Koolaid drinker!

You’re right Matt, TT hasn’t made some of the best moves, but to blame this teams inabilities on AR is ridiculous. AR has done all he can do to put points on the board only to have them removed time and time again by stupid penalties by an immature OL. This doesn’t fall on the shoulders of AR it falls on the shoulders of MM but even more so on TT since he’s the one that left us in this state. Doing the last year to this year comparison is also preposterous, year in and year out the NFL has proven that a team, with the exact same players and the exact same coaches can come out and win, win, win and then the next year finish the season with a losing record. So you can’t use those comparisons as your benchmark for proving this team is better with one player then another. This team could have been just as bad if not worse with Favre at the helm considering the crap that went on prior to him coming to training camp. So please don’t give that crap – however, I do think TT’s got more then just koolaid in that glass, I think he may have added some Vodka to that mix.

Rodgers is not the problem – his lack of NFL game experience is a problem.

Anybody who thought Rodgers was going to step in and do the things Favre did was just not being realistic. Favre was (at the very least) a solid 17 year vet; he knew how to lead a team, he knew how to break down a defense, he knew how to change on the fly, he knew how to move in the pocket.

AR is a good QB – at times he looks like a very good QB, but you just can’t expect him to come in and do those things with virtually no NFL game experience. I backed Favre all the way – still do actually, and even I have to say Rodgers has played about as well as can be expected given the situation. He has frequently exceeded my expectations by a wide measure.

Yes, I am becoming an Aaron Rodgers fan.

There is NO reason for this O-line to have slipped from the point when we were a couple first downs from the Super Bowl. These same guys battled the future Super Bowl champs to a virtual standstill – they need to step up.

On a happy note – did anybody else jump up and yell when Tory Humphrey ran that seam route? Maybe we’ll finally get to see why they’ve kept him around.

Pete and Jon, can we play nice please? Anyway… I have to agree with the fact(s) Jon has given… The Giants kept their quarterback, but I don’t think that was ever going to be a question, the Packers did ditch theirs, but for the past few years that’s been a question over and over again. The fact that the Giants are where they are is a tribute to the strength of their team continuing to grow and not being hit with the injury bug early this season as they were early last season. Now we (Packers) get to play favorites to the injury bug. In fact, if my memory serves me, didn’t the Giants start out with a similar record and didn’t the analysts have much of the same dialog concerning that team early last season? Anyone? Anyone?

Pete,

I have never, ever said the Packers’ failures are due SOLELY to Favre’s absence. Football is a team sport.

However, when this year’s team is identical to last year’s team save for the absence of an ALL PRO at the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT POSITION IN FOOTBALL, it is delusional to claim that the All Pro’s absence has NOTHING to do with the team’s failures.

It is indeed comical to observe how so many of you who pinned the NFC Championship loss last season SOLELY on Favre are now saying that football is a TEAM sport and that our three consecutive losses cannot be pinned on Rodgers – despite his poor play in the first two losses and his game-changing interception in the third loss.

In other words, when we lost with Favre it was always his fault; when we lose with Rodgers it’s always the offensive line’s fault, the defense’s fault, the specialty teams’ fault, the guy who forgot to put mustard in McLardy’s cheeseburgers, etc.

Matt I agree we’d be somewhat better off with #4. If nothing else we’d have great depth with #12. He was great at avoiding sacks. But our defense and special teams were better last year. You can really see the lack of coordination by our D-backs w/o Bigby and Harris, and w/o pressure from the D-line we’re in trouble either way. If we had a good running game it would help the every phase but special teams. But so far we don’t. I really expect our O-line to get better maybe even punting but I only see our D-line getting worse.

Wow, great post DA. This is more like what we want here Al.

It’s all coming full circle now… TT, MM, and MM did nothing to improve the team through free agency and the draft was suspect at best the last 3 yeasrs. BF pleaded to improve the team. YOu mean we could’nt use Alan Faneca? ANd letting Corey Williams go? Are you kidding me? Justin Harrell is a bust at # 16. They added Frank Walker and Brandon Chillar in 2 years of Free Agency…What a joke. TT could have built a dynasty with or without BF if he “looked at the football part” of training camp/practices as stated in article by Bob McGinn JS online dated Sept 3rd, 2008. Yes he actually said that…he does however watch the interaction of the guys coming off the field…WHAT? look it up….he is a pathetic GM. And remeber if you are not getting better you are getting worse.

Actually, I’ve been losing interest in football over the years. Over the years I’ve watched as Madden set up camp in Dallas for the 3 o’clock game year in-year out (still doing it), 20 camera shots a game of the femmy Jerry Jones and Robert Kraft (some years it was hard to tell if there was actually a football game being played), taking away the defense from games (I enjoy a good defensive gane), and the introduction of the new offensive play of pass interfence (run your WR 50 yards down field and bump into the DB), not to mention allowing the O-linemen to hold, etc. They’ve made it so easy to score points that w/one penalty and a change of momentum that a team can play 50 minutes of good football and still lose.

The fact is that the 2008 Packers are just not that good. Many of the folks on here (me included) put what may be too much stock in the #4 v #12 debate. And while I think it is clear that we would be a better team with Favre, I think the issue is more systematic. Thompson has not put the pieces together to win and one of these poor decisions was to jettison Favre. I am sick of fans blaming injuries and/or the refs. Those excuses affect every team and are complete bogus. What Thompson supporters always claimed was that this team was a lot deeper than in the past. I even believed this last year when there was no injuries to note or evidence to support. However, it is clear that this teams backups are not close to starter material and this team is no deeper than during the Sherman years (although at least there is no cletidus hunt contract….yet). Meanwhile, Thompson continues to stockpile low draft picks so that he can cut his picks from previous years, signs no veteran free agents to backup/provide leadership, and leaves a ton of money unspent.

Honestly, who on our bench do you see as a solid starter down the road? And to add insult to injury it looks like our tackles our old and done so now we need 5 new starters on the o-line. Awesome.

I really want Sanders to go away except we all new who the new d-coordinator will be next year. Yup, Winston Moss. So get used to medicrioty boys- that is what the future has in store. McCarthy is now 27-26 and like the DJIA is falling fast.

So most of us sit on one of two sides of the TT/MM/AR-BF fence here…and admittedly so, my posts often look in hindsight. Please hear that I’m just pissed that we are 2-3 and without a stream of good luck we are going to be 2-5 going into the bye. FYI -That’s my motive. I’m just pissed we are losing, that’s all. And now we have to go on the road at Seattle, where I live… it is a dang hard place to win a football game. AS mentioned I live in Seattle, and they are billing this game, as the Seahawks season here. They can’t go 1-4, this is a must win game for them and Quest Field is just as loud as the metrodome (seen Packer games at both stadiums). And I’m going to the game on Sunday, too. But I have concerns we can win this football game and then Indy at home is another tough draw…

2-5 is to be expected.

So instead of looking behind…I’m looking ahead.

Where do we go from here?

I think TT and MM, should get one more season to prove themselves…but the evaluation from all Packer fans should begin right now. They need to show some urgency ASAP!

TT make a trade right now to shore up the D-Line or O-Line…open up the pocket book this offseason.make a move in the draft next April to get a blue-chip player.

MM enough with the ridiculous vanilla play-calling. Take some risks… Start Brandon Jackson. Make a move on the O-Line…It should be balls out moves at this point.

My issue is primarily with TT, but they’ve both got to make some moves here before this house of cards crashes in on them. I feel like there is no urgency there. And that needs to change if they don’t want their heads to roll!!!

At least we haven’t had to wait 100 years for a championship like those lovable losers, known as the Chicago Cubs.