AATP and company: You and your cronies that continue to make excuses for this team’s record aside from QB play are the reason why I refer to last year’s stats to say that you CAN WIN with PISS-POOR line play. Take Favre and what this team out of the picture, since that seems to skew people’s vision. Look at frickin Denver on Thursday night for crying out loud. They had there 7th string RB in the game and they gave up 160 yards rushing and 400 total yards of offense and they still won. Why? Cutler made plays and drive his team down in the 4th quarter for the winning score. My point is that most people on this blog are directing zero scrutiny his direction. We’ve lost 4 close games and he has made zero plays in the 4th quarter of those games to win them. You can piss and moan about what is wrong here or there with this team, but the bottom line is that we are not making plays to win games. And sorry folks, that rests on the shoulders of the QB. Put Jay Cutler on this team and we’re 6-3 or 7-2. Instead frickin’ AR is doing jack squat in the 4th quarter and we’re 4-5!

Hey Favre boys, Rodgers can’t make plays to win games if MM keeps calling off tackle runs and 3 yard hooks. I am not saying he would, or even could win those games, but they haven’t even given him a chance to yet.

One last thing. I can’t believe that Frosts name still has to be mentioned as being a Packer. WTF! He must have some bad pictures of TT or something cause that guy is a pile of steaming SHI#.

Pete-
One losing season with Favre in 15 years and you say he does not have an effect on the team steping up?

Last gasp this week. Time has run out. If we lose this game it will prove our off season moves were a failure, no excuses. We have home field, we have as many good players as they do. My advice is to run inside and challenge them. Or, if we see 8 in the box throw over the top like the Titans did. But I don’t think they will respect our running game. No turnovers or special team blunders and we will win. Now is the wrong time to get down, now is the time to show some resolve.

That is what being a fan is DA…….

Paul, don’t overreact. I did not say he didn’t have any effect. I said that he alone would not be able to have this team playing at the same level as last year. If Favre, by himself, were able to get that big of difference, as is the difference in this years team and last years, then the Packers would have never taken a step backwards during his tenure. Even while Brett was here, and I am one of those who has staunchly defended what he was able to do here, this team went through some bleak stretches. I am quite sure that there are several seasons in there in which the Packers were, at best 4-5. I did not even say that they wouldn’t have a better record right now with Brett. They probably would. I did say that Favre could not just be out there and will this heartless team to victory each week. I think that MM is certainly not allowing Rodgers to be able to win a game as Favre was. Until MM hands the keys to the car over to Rodgers we won’t know what he is capable of. He is absolutely coaching not to lose, and that is the best way to lose. It is that that I said and I think has a far greater reach into the success of this team, than ANY one player.

Pete says: “What’s the defense now ranked Jon? I bet its worse than 11th.”

Yes, it’s ranked 22, down from 11 season. But the defense falling from 11 to 22 is nowhere near as big a fall as the offense falling from 2 to 19. When the offense falls from number 2 last season to number 19 this season, the defense is on the field all day, hence the poorer defensive numbers.

Pete H – let me spell this out for you…My point is that other teams (past and present) win in spite of the very same issues (can’t run; can’t stop the run) we are having! And they win because their QB makes plays to win close ball games, our QB is not.

I can’t figure it out, Matt. What changed? Can you help me? LOL.

Wow, you two are football boobs.

Sorry about the boob comment…uncalled for.

I think another reason the defense is so bad is they are on the field most of the game. With long, sustained drives by the offense, the defense is bound to have better stats. Time of possession is a huge stat that does not get enough credit. But if your defense is always on the field….

Barnett is out for the Season….:=(

Teams win without running or being able to stop the run if the QB is good enough? Maybe. Eil played as well down the stretch as any QB in the NFL last year. Would the Giants have beaten us if they couldn’t run or stop the run?

I think that would be a reach. Line play matters.

Last year’s line, while they couldn’t run block in the first 8 games, did a pretty fair job of pass protection. Favre was among the last sacked QB in the NFL last year in part because he’s a damn fine QB, in part because he took risks other QBs wouldn’t take, and in part because the line played well in front of him. Yes, Favre made a difference. It would be foolish to suggest otherwise.

Certainly there were games last year where Brett played inspired football. In my opinion, his last three years were more impressive than his MVP years. (Yes, that includes the 4-12 season everybody uses against him. There is not one QB in the NFL who would have won more games with that team than Favre did.)

The line is not playing as well this year. Why? Rodgers is not the leader Favre was, nor does he have the experience to run things the way Favre did, make his reads and adjustments as well as Favre did, etc . . . . Our competition has film on us they didn’t have last year. We were #2 in the NFC; do you think our opposition is laying for us? I think our guards and center are as good as they’re ever going to be, and our tackles are showing their age. Grant’s holdout and injury didn’t help. It’s not the same line as last year, and the competition has improved. Factor that in with Rogers not quite filling Favre’s shoes, and yesterday wasn’t exactly shocking in my opinion.

Well said Jeff. Jon, I have never bashed Favre for his picks! If you recall, I was steady in your corner as far as whether they should have kept him. I do still think so, but I am also not naive enough to think that is the one reason why they are inept this year. My comments about the offense main purpose not turning the ball over exactly uin support of both of those beliefs. While turnovers are not good, ever, they did play aggressive offense with Favre knowing that is the only way he plays. The result is more TD’s….agreed. What I am saying about Rodgers is that we don’t know if he can bring some of that to this team because MM is not letting him do it. Maybe Rodgers can win some of those games, without the picks, but noone will ever know until he gets a chance to. My point is that it almost seems as though they are trying to get wins without Rodgers ever having to be the one who costs them the win in order to protect him, and themselves in their decision. I am also not saying that, in some ways, Rodgers play hasn’t warranted that of late, but like everyone else on this team, when it is coached in a settling, lets not screw up manner, people play afraid to screw up, unconfident that their one screw up could cost them the win, and thus, they screw up. Who is playing the best one this team? The corners, by a stretch. Why? My opinion, because the coach demands them to play by themselves out there, being aggressive, and confident. Yes they are good, but they are also allowed to play that way….I don’t want Rodgers to fill Fare’s shoes…impossible to do, but I do want him to be afforded the chance to go win a game and lose a game. Game managers don’t get 60 million. If he is not a game managing QB then they need to call a game like he isn’t. Time to take the training wheels off there Mike! Funny thing is, the first 2 games they kind of cut Rodgers loose, almost to prove right off the bat that he could be the guy, and since then they have reeled him in.

I really don’t want to get in the middle of this piss fight, but there is some truth to what Jon states. Bart played on a hell of a team with one of the finest coaches in history. I know we can’t really compare players across generations, but do you really think anybody in the Packers organization over the last twenty years comes close to Lombardi as a coach? Doesn’t that skew things just a little?

Yeah, Bart threw 1/3 the INTs Favre has. He also threw about 1/3 the passes and touchdowns.

As a purely intellectual exercise, put Brett on Bart’s teams and Bart on Brett’s teams. All other things being equal – a pure time-travelling exercise in silliness. I can’t do it myself. Too young. Gotta ask my dad next time I go up. It’ll be time to bust open the Crown Royal and talk some drunken football bullshit.

I was actually kinda pissed when I read your comment, Al, but I’m really happy now thinking about watching us whup the Bears with dad. I get way too emotionally involved in this garbage.

Jon, all offseason I backed you up because many were putting the C game squarely on Brett’s shoulders for that one pass. We both talked about how it takes some others to play as well. Now you are saying that Brett alone has this team dominant. I am saying that they may well be, but not if MM were calling the same game that he is now, regardless of who is QB. Rodgers might well suck, but he hasn’t even been allowed to suck yet…..which is funny because its making him look like he sucks. I agree with Al in that I did not expect this team to dominate as they did last year. I did not, however, expect MM to lose his nads during the offseason and coach like its a high scholl powder puff game. Last year, the Packers would not call two horses ass running plays into the Williams boys, settling for a 50 yd attempt. They had confidence in any and every play they ran, and they ran whatever they thought would be most successful. This year, they call whatever can do the least damage, so now every game, they get burned slowly, leaving us constantly in the game, but not able to win it because when the time comes to win it….offense and defense…noone wants to make the play to win it. They just don’t want to make the one that loses it…

138 v 300.. 3.3 v 4.4.. what is all this? lol

It’s hard to compare quarterbacking today to what it was back then. And that same reason (logic) also considers that while Favre threw more than double INTs, they were at a better ratio, when comparing pass attempts.

This is what annoys me about Al. He is a simple hater, point blank.

Favre has thrown more passes than anyone else in NFL HISTORY. So obviously its rather natural that he’d be close to throwing the most INTs as well. Favre has made some bone-head plays, we all know that, but to reduce him to being the “Interception Machine” is such a disservice to Packer fans, who think outside of Al’s bias.

Let’s be sensible, Dan Marino, though he never won a SB, is considered to be an all-time great. In 242 games, Dan threw 252 INTs. In 266 games, Favre has thrown 300. At Dan Marino’s rate, if he were to play 266 games like Favre, he would have probably thrown 277 INTs. Favre threw 23 more, to reach 300. But what this means is, over 16 full seasons (minus one game) Favre has thrown 1.4 INTs per season more than Dan Marino, had Marino played as long as Favre has. This illustrates, easily, that if you play long enough, you’ll break all sorts of records.

But you’d never get that side of the pie from Al, his only business is, “let me be as ‘right’ as possible and make Favre look as ‘bad’ as possible”. Another word for this is, PROPAGANDA.

TRIP and Jon, you do realize that no one is making you read these posts, right?

I don’t know what your long-term goals are. All I know is what you’ve shown these last 2-3 years. Besides, I just called you a “hater”. But please, is Dan Marino an Interception Machine also, Al? When you look at it fairly, he only got 1 or 2 less interceptions per season than BF, the chief IM. You always joke off the comments, or downright ignore them. Address them for once?

Jon, you called me a loser? I apologized for my insult…but if you want I will make you feel as dumb as you sound.