Packernet's View Packers’ defense sucks «

Michael Legat

You forgot to mention kick coverage, Al.

http://www.packernet.com admin

You are right Mike. I’m sure Favre would have covered that. Happy New Year.

Dan

Also forgot to mention MM isn’t a head coach. Packers having trouble covering kicks, so MM does the one thing that could lose the game.

dd

i think if we still had favre the results would still be the same out defense has not showed up at all each week they get sicker and sicker its hard to watch they cant stop nothing to me the only ones that seem like they are tring to win are rodgers,jenning,driver,kampman and even crosby and grant when he’s healthy you cant win a game like that

CheesyD

Field position was key to this game (as usual). Frost is horrid. Why he is even in the NFL is beyond me. The special teams coaching staff needs to be fired, as does the defensive coordinator.

Oconomowockid

We are a better team!! We’re moving on!! The train has left the station. Woo Woo !!!

stomps

Al… you’ll be back… u always are… ur pissed just like u usually get… don’t worry about it….

There will be another game… another season…. remember the 80′s??

Steve

erdbob

Remember a fish always rots from the head down. That is the case with the Pack, TT, MM, please someone, tell Murphy to get rid of them both. I have been attending Pack games for 70 years and it is impossible for me to live long enough to see a winning game here again under the present leadership.
What special teams, did they all take a nap along with the defense? Rodgers is doing amazingly well under the circumstances, but he can’t win games on his own. Now this week MM will utter some lame excuses on his press conference, etc. He always becomes defensive when questioned about certain calls. As far as the punter situation, TT must have hit the sauce big time to keep what we have. A high school punter could do better. When you give the opposing team the ball on the 50 what in hell do you expect is going to happen. We could have had this game in hand but the special teams and defense were taking a nap. I have club seats but will likely not renew them for next year, at my age I can only take so much abusel

Dan

Look at the bright side!!!

The Bears must really suck, because this Packers team kicked their a$$.

dd

good one Dan !!! AL we still have i think 4 games to go our team MIGHT win them all you never know the packers might shock us

erdbob

One last comment, had MM not kicked the FG at the end and we had not scored a TD, the worst that could have happened is Carolina would have taken over on their one yd line. Is MM so stupid that he thinks we we could kick off to them and actually hold them down on their 20 or less with our incompetent special teams, my god he must be smarter then that.

TRIP

Incompetent coach, to say the least. We need someone who’s name isn’t Mike.

However, THE TRAIN HAS LEFT THE STATION!

Michael Legat

Mikes are okay (Holmgren, Shanahan, Sherman, McCarthy, Smith).

Bills are better (Parcells, Belichick, Cowher, Walsh).

AATP

Yup, it certainly wasn’t the offense that offensive today – special teams, defense, defense, and did I mention defense? Oh well, hopefully we’ll see a amazing last 4 games and Minnesota and Chicago choke… hopefully… Gotta love the adversity that is the NFL…

CheesyD

Yep, and even with a losing record I’d rather be a fan of the Packers than any other NFL team.

http://www.packernet.com admin

Amen!

http://Orlando Mark

Last year, except in Chicago, special teams were a strength. Before the half the D forces a three and out with our offense clicking and and Wells tosses them a gift. Still, give the team some credit they overcame alot but the punting and return coverage was once again fatal.

roy jamison

Al, you were right and I was wrong. I was “hoping” the defense would show up today. Sadly, this bunch is sad. Coo coo ca choo Jim Bates, the Packer nation turns its lonely eyes to you….8-8 looks good at this point. another Bart Starr coached stellar year

PackerBacker

What has happened to this defense since last year? They can’t stop the run!!They can’t pressure the QB!!The special teams can’t cover the returns!! The coaching apparently is not doing its job of preparing these guys to bring their A game everytime they hit the field.We need to get back to real Packer football (fundamentals).
Rodgers has done a good job of moving the offense but the O-line needs to be upgraded. D-line also needs help too!! MM and TT need to sit down and fix this!!!
MM and TT may have done Farve a favor by trading him to the Jets after all.
Go Pack!!!

Doug R

what’s the premise of never blitzing? Are they afraid of giving up the big play? Uh yeah, wouldn’t want to do that.

Offenses are picking them apart. Is it me or are their schemes uncreative? Every game looks the same with same result. If you don’t have much talent them at least try and confuse offense. Can it get any worse?

After you give up a bunch of bad returns, at what point does the coach say squib it?especially with game on line. You have to play hand your dealt. If coverage not working that day then adapt. If your punter can only punt good in practice after 12 games then fire him. We are out of time for “correcting”band changing “pad level” is not working

Pete H

Not that I am trying to pin this on the offense, but perhaps a little…little….creativity in the first half would have helped. Anyone notice that they ran several different plays during the Bears game that worked, and now those are the only plays we see. That stupid pitch straight back to Grant is good maybe twice a game. Where the hell are the slants? The outs? They mentioned how Jackson is a screen signal to the defense because Grant can’t run it and yet when Jackson is in there full time, and the screen would now be disguised, they never ran it. Its like they play a game of Madden on Saturday night to come up with their plays. One deep pass….complete….imagine that! Someone new finds a way for this team to lose each week….thats coaching.

Michael Legat

In all fairness, Doug, their pad level was not great today, so…

Matt Hayton

okay huge Favre supporter and MMARTT basher, but the game wasn’t AR’s fault…he played a whale of a game.

Our special teams coach and punter should both be gone by Tuesday morning…I pin all of this on TT: Ryan replaced by Frost, Williams trade to get his #1 joke, Harrell on the field, outside of Kampman, D-Line sucks and our O-Line doesn’t scare anybody…outside of the corners and the WRs, this team is very ordinary…TT should’ve done a better job of buillding a team around #12, before he turned over the reins to him. To think that #12 could come and in and cover up the inadequancies of this team like Favre did last year was down right foolish!

He’s gotta start spending some money this offseason otherwise he’s gonna be gone! Which is what he rightfully deserves…He’s hit on Jennings, Collins and maybe Rodgers in the draft… but, what else has he done to improve this team? Woodson and Pickett, 4 years ago, but he isn’t spending a dime these days… What a joke, FIRE TT!!!!!!!!!!!

iccyfan

Frosty the Puntman
needs to hurry on his way;
He should wave goodbye
Sorry I made you cry
I’ll be back (in the NFL) again some day

Thumpety thump thump
Thumpety thump thump
Look at Frosty Go;
Thumpety thump thump
Thumpety thump thump
Teddy must be doin’ blow…

Larry

A lot of short memories above. 1) This is the same team as last year with more cumulative injuries, more penalties, less creativity from coaching staff, and a lousy downturn of the special teams which was a strength last year. 2) Rodgers is having a better year than expected and his INTs have not lost games like BF did. 3) Williams move was a good trade, ask a CLE fan how they feel about it. 4) Harrell let us down big time; he came to camp out of shape, let us think he was working extra hard to get into playing strength and stupidly hurt himself. So whats left is that we let a better punter get away, but looking back he was no great shakes either. So where are we? We have an extremely young team that is losing a half dozen games by 4-5 points mainly because of dumb mistakes. I’m convinced that the DL, LBs, and Specials are capable of being much better, but the OL is not. Even with the above we are scoring a lot of points and are not giving much in the way of turnovers; we’re even ahead on that score (but DBs cant do it alone). I don’t think TT will be as patient with MM as we were with Starr, Devine, or Rhodes. And for those who wanted an OG, QB, TE, DE, LB, and P you can’t have them all and which one or two would have changed what we’re going through? Tie down those earflaps because this is not going to turn around this year. Look forward to April and maybe there will pop up a FA or two worth the asking price; TT would pick something up to turn it around but not just to improve one spot, it doesn’t work that way.

http://Orlando Mark

Roy the defense cant show up. The D-line is too weak this year and we don’t know how to blitz effectively. All we can do is use ball control, try to outscore the other team and pray the other QB isn’t any good. Of course, with our bad field position due to coverage and punting it makes it all a lot harder.

http://Orlando Mark

Oh, by the way we don’t need anyone great on the D-line just some good effective players for a rotation. We proved that last year. Right now we have people on the D-line who shouldn’t be in the NFL. Same with the punter.

Pete H

Larry…dead wrong. Williams is doing fine in Cleve. Is he a rock star no, but that is why they got Shawn Rogers. williams does what he did here. Eat up space against the run and provide some pass rush from the middle, both of which are lacking here. Now, I will say that the idea of trading aguy like that away for a second round pick is generally a solid move…until there is no move made to replace what he brought to the table here. Harrell is another Pickett, Cole, Jolly etc….run guys. If you notice, our run D actually has been better since Harrell has began playing, but there is noone to generate a charge in the passing game. you are right that this is an extremely young team making dumb mistakes, and that is the problem. Every year this team seems to lose more vets in lieu of first time players. I will also say that because of the pick chosen to replace Williams makes the trade bad now because he couldn’t even win the backup job over another rookie, and because of there being two drafted rookies no effort was made to get a vet QB that, oh I don’t know, maybe could have tried to throw a pass to get a single first down which would have won a game. Also, not every one of those positions need to be addressed. If the line play was solid, as last year, the linebackers have less to be responsible for, and thus can play to their strengths. The lack of TE is just poor play calling. Lee and Humphrey are fine, but MM is a sad sack of a play caller. they have run alot of plays that have worked this year, but they seem to pick five a game to use. I can’t believe that they handed their season to a fullback on the goal line. If you don’t trust Jackson to get it in, use Grant…they said he was available…if you don’t want to do that….sneak it or play action…..horrible.

Larry

Look at the stats, Williams is on the outside and doing nothing but start. They don’t think he was worth a #2 (fans). Here again, how do you know what Brohm is worth after one camp? Why do you go with a vet back-up when QB not our problem and your coach’s forte is building NFL QBs? No arguement on play calling (another supposed forte of MM) but every mgmt detracter on this site had his own pick for a FA. Franka, Gonzales, Allen, any punter, Favre; my point being that you can’t have them all. The rejoinder is usually well, just a journeyman would have done, but how the heck can you be sure and you’ve broke the bank. My gosh remember how hard it was to pick up REGGIE. A FA has to want to come, and it takes another GM to make a trade. On that subject, the only thing we had to offer was DLs and WRs and I’m sure that played into the pick of Jordy. To me it made sense. Think back to April, not today’s hind sight.

PackerDan

Hey Al,

Please dont leave…… I think I speak for all of your readers that we all look forward to your wonderful and accurate insight on the packers each week….

Good or bad….you need to stick by this team…we are true Packer fans who never quit!…you’re right…remember the 80′s….and I’ll bet you were right there by their side through all those loosing years!

I will look forward to your commentary next week… : )

Go Pack!

PackerDan

THE PACKERS ARE STILL ALIVE…HERE IS HOW THEY MAKE IT INTO THE PLAYOFFS!

If Minnesota loses two of their last two games and the Packers win their last 4…the Packers are in the playoffs….

Minnesota would have to lose two of these games:
At Detroit
At Arizona
Atlanta
New York Giants…..(Giants may be resting players)

Packers need to win the last 4:
Houston
At Jacksonville
At Chicago
Detroit

Bears need to lose one game….(it would be the packers if packers win out)
Jacksonville
New Orleans.
Green Bay
At Houston

All three teams would be 9-7. The Packers would have the head to head tiebreaker advantage over the Bears. The Packers would also have the better division record against the Vikings (providing packers win out beating detroit and chicago) The Vikings currently have 2 losses and the Packers only have 1 against division opponents. The Vikings and Packers split this year so thats why the tie breaker would be division opponents.
So its not out of the question!
Hang in there Packer fans….w’eve done this many years….remember the Arizon win for us at 4th down….Its all possible….Thats why they play the games…

PackerDan

Pete H

Back in April I ripped the move…as today. It doesn’t matter what Brohm turns into to me….the fact that they drafted him caused them to not sign a vet backup. That fact then caused them to lose at Tampa because they didn’t have a QB who they felt capable of even throwing a pass to get a game winning first down. Also, a vet may have given them a game while Rodgers heeled….which he needed to do. Notice how so so his play was while he wasn’t practicing, perhaps costing them another game. As for Williams, what he is doing there is somewhat dictated by the rest of their defense. He produced here with the D backs, linebackers, and other D lineman we have and the scheme we run. Current personel often has alot to do with the performance of one individual player, and besides what exactly is the best case scenario for Brohm? That Rogers gets hurt and Brohm plays well enough to either boot Rogers, who we traded Favre to play, or trade Brohm for yet another pick. Point being that the only good that can come from him is at the detrimate of something else. Williams providing a pass rush here may, repeat may, have gotten this team 2-3 more wins this year, which I hope is more than Brohm ever will. You also keep bringing up nothing but the highest priced free agents….once again that is not what I am asking for. How about someone who has played the pro game before? They don’t need to be REGGIEs. What they need to be is Santana Dotsons, Grady Jacksons, Seth Joyners, Guy Mcintyre etc..Hell, Mike Wahle signed in Seattle for 1/3 of what he got when he left GB. Tellin me they couldn’t have used a guard this year. ANd then guess what? If he sucks and we wasted the money, hey could still cut him and have the cap room for next year. Point being you don’t get to roll over your cap room like paid days off at a job, the money that didn’t get spent this year iss just that, money that didn’t get spent this year. They could have signed just a couple of vets with front loaded contracts that wouldn’t cost them down the road, and that they could have parted with if they didn’t pan out. I’m not saying that any one of the guys I mentioned or anyone else has would, for sure, have made the or any difference…I have my reseravtions about the philosophy of this coaching staff, but there was NO effort made try have a team ready for inevitable injuries. Even when they knew Harrell wasn’t going to play for 6 weeks nobody was brought in…Jenkins gets hurt…nobody brought in……KGB gets cut…Kenny Pettway brought in, so bad that they won’t even pklay him on THIS line. Barnett hurt….nobody brought in. Bigby and Harris hurt…nada. Punter sucks….yep nothin. Rogers has a trouble shoulder and they don’t trust their rookies to throw a pass, and yet NOTHING. I’ll bet that a vet would know how to stay in his F!@ing lane on kickoff duty! Stop with the Gonzalez, Allen, breaking the bank crap. You don’t need to break the bank to get a FA who can suit up and play with some steadiness.

http://Orlando Mark

Larry, it’s hard to get a D-lineman by trade. That’s why we got a #2 for Williams. We all knew by camp the D-line was a mess. A good GM would have known before the draft. KGB had been dropping for years, and Willams was gone,injuries and off the field stuff happens. Jordy’s ok and will get better but we needed and still need a D-lineman a lot more. As you can see we’re not that far from being a good team. A free agent would come if we paid him, it’s just money.

Bob

“After watching Mike McCarthey coach, I realize that He is not 100% committed to the Green Bay Packers team. Sound familiar? That was what He told Favre in their meeting, He needs to take his own advice and leave. Terrible play calling down on the goal line, I knew when we settled for that field goal, Panthers would come back and win. Also Rogers played a good game, but the interception at the end was just like a lot of Favre’s, they both are playmakers trying to do whatever they can to win. I liked it when Favre try everything He could to win, and I like seeing Rogers doing the same. Rogers didn’t cost us this game. I love how TT makes us think that He is trying to improve our team by trying to get Moss, trying to get Gonzelous. Trying in the NFL is not good enough, if He wanted those guy’s we would have them on our team. We have good recievers, we need a pass rush asap!!!!

Larry

My answer is that the backups and injury replacements are not the ones that have hurt us, its the starters. We had plenty of depth when this year started but multiple injuries to certain positions depleted it. I’m extremely disappointed in how MM is handling this year (ie; appears to be doing nothing other than shuffling the OL around). You’d expect that young guys would show more fire coming out of the tunnel each week and starters would show more concern for their job. I really have no idea what the real problem is, but just to throw up our hands and say everything is nuts. Don’t give me names from the past, they were available then not now. Who out there do you want today, or the last 3 months, and tell me how you would get them. I know the answer I’ll get; (15) damned names at (5) different positions from (10) different bloggers. Drafts have been made, FAs have been brought in and considering last years results it didn’t appear that we needed much. Even a trade was made and I’ll be darned TT screwed up on every one of them. Hey, I’m not very pleased the way this has turned out, and can find plenty of fault too, but quit this constant hindsight the point has been made. I take issue with “D-line was a mess” (before draft). It was a strength with depth; so we brought in a LB, what was wrong w/ that then? We also had plenty of OL, but who knew they couldn’t play in this system. Yeah, I know TT and MM should have known. I think that would have made them geniuses tho and who would you find fault with then.

paul

MM recently got married and just had a baby. Distractions, distractions, distractions! Jimmy Johnson said he divorced his wife because he wanted a Superbowl and could not be a good husband and coach. MM is getting laid too much and suckling a baby….watch tape bitch!

Larry

There you go! I knew there was something wrong, its lack of dedication. I do know, though, that St Vincent was able to raise a family.

Pete H

Well Larry, the names from the past are examples to show that it isn’t neccessarily big names that win games. I also didn’t say that it was the starters who needed to be replaced. You should read before you reply. what I said was that this team needed to have something reliable in the well besides “talented” youth. you also can’t just say that “we were good last year, so we don’t need to change anyting.” That is whats nuts……Yes, they were fine last year, but the OFFSEASON trade of Williams,the OFFSEASON surgery of KGB, the TRAINING CAMP fatness of Harrell, the TRAINING CAMP inability of their rookie QBs. Also, for a good chunk of last year the guards were the same averageness they are now. THE POINT BEING THAT NOT ONE SINGLE UPGRADE WAS MADE OVER LAST YEAR. If you don’t want to talk about hindsight then don’t talk about hindsight issues yourself. YOU made the Williams reply. Maybe its just that you don’t want to talk about it unless we agree with you. quit overreacting….nobody has said that EVERYTHING was wrong with this team. What has been said ALOT is that a couple of tweaks here and there could have saved this season. There was also most certainly NOT depth at Dline when the season started. Williams was gone, Harrell, was going on the PUP list because he is a big fat lump, KGB was coming off of surgery and Jolly was staring at, and still is, a suspension. Where is this magical depth you are referring to? Linebacker? What because he brought in one guy to back up 3? Oh yes, QB, becaus we have 3, but only one will be allowed to thow a pass. Maybe the O line….because we have a billion of them that are the same unproductive pile of Mandarich. D back I’ll give you, because the only guy who left from last year was TT’s ONLY signing from the year before. Hindsight is how you judge performance of a GM and a coach.

paul

Larry, You aren’t compare St. Vincent to MM are you? And my response is somewhat tougue in cheek…..somewhat.

paul

OOOPS I meant comparing St. Vincent to MM.

Larry

Well, thats a lot to digest. I didn’t say you said some starters should be replaced, I said it. I stand by ALL of my Williams remarks, based mainly on what I hear from CLE. Also, never said you stand pat w/o changes, just stated that we didn’t appear to need a lot. The DL incidents you’re talking about happened after the draft. Finally, hindsight is a wonderful judge of performance, but not a good measure of prior decisions made at the time the decision was made. Simply put, shouldn’t have had the BBs in port 12/7, elected Carter, or let box cutters on board 9/11. If you think these mentions are inappropriate its because I detect that NFL football is way too much import to many of you blogging. As Forrest said, “thats all I have to say about that”!

Larry

Paul you’re too much! I guess one could infer that I meant to, but I assure you that’ll never happen. If my favorite since then (Holmgren) couldn’t achieve such greatness, MM never will. And, thats all I have to say about that, too!

paul

Just checking my friend, just checking.

Pete H

I know they happend after the draft, but during free agency. I know there is much post finger pointing going on here, but hey, thats what fans do. If I got paid as much TT does to make football personel decisions, and promptly turned a 13-3 champioship game team into an average bunch of over, no wait under, nope over again, nope under achieving half asses I’d expect the blogs to be filled with this crap too. And if I were MM I would expect to be answering some serious questions about how a team with such little turnover can be so undisciplined and seemingly lost in their system. Also, yes, I do take this team way too seriously, but I am in a boring rut of a situation right now, and this useless team is my current source of “entertainment” ……I also didn’t want to have to go to the Det. game in Dec. having nothing to play for……thats going to be bad.

Larry

I guess I can’t argue much with the above.

MaxPack

Favre trade = Ruth trade

Doug R

4 possible scenarios after last year:

1) TT gets a bunch of FA’s: Packers win
2) TT gets a bunch of FA’s: Packers lose
3) TT stands pat: Packers win
4) TT stands pat: Packers lose

Hindsight Interpretations:
1) See, TT was a genius, upgraded talent and didn’t just stand around
2) See, TT is an idiot, he had a great team and he f’d up the chemistry and now they are losing and we have no cap room
3) TT is a genius, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it
4) TT is an idiot, if you are not getting better then you are getting worse, he should have upgraded by getting more FA’s

There are 3 levels of teams right now in my humble opinion. Level 1 is The Giants and maybe The Cowboys when they are healthy. Level 2 is about 18 other teams like Eagles, Bears, Vikings, packers, Atlanta, Bucs, Jets, panthers etc. that are decent teams but can all beat each other on any given Sunday. Level 3 is the rest which are awful like Lions, Chiefs, etc.

What we have to prevent is the Pack going to Level 3 from Level 2 and hope they can get to Level 1 someday. Even if some things had gone different this year, there was no way they are beating the Giants or Cowboys in the playoffs. Let’s chalk this year up to re-building. We have a young team with a potential stud QB. With all the screw ups, I would still take TT/MM over Spielman/Chilly, Millen/Marinelli and ??/Lovie.

in other words, if we run from TT/MM, who are we going to run to?

Larry

A big AMEN!!!!!!

MaxPack

5th possible scenario after last season:

5. Going 13-3, with the number 2 ranked offense in the NFL and number 11 ranked defense, in the off season TT improves the weakest part of the team – defense – through free agency, and we make another run for the Super Bowl.

Actuality:

5. TT toys with the OFFENSE and we’re 5-7. TT is a moron.

Larry

Hey, MaxPack who? No. 5 who, when, how, and how much? I’m sure you’ve got the easy answer. Could have been so easy, I’m sure everybody but TT saw it. Please, its not too late for next year! Same team today, who do you want?

Be A Fan:

Packers’ defense sucks