Packers future not bleak

After the latest meltdown by the Packers this season, I had to sit back for a change and try to gather my emotions. No such luck, I guess. But still, even with the disappointment of this season still really two weeks away, I don’t think the Packers are in for 20 years of losing like many of the comments here have suggested. Today’s NFL won’t allow that. Just ask Miami. The Packers are solid on offense and whether or not you like Aaron Rodgers, the fact is unless he gets hurt he will continue to get better. During the Packers 20 years of losing, quarterback was the main problem. However, when they finally got a good one – Lynn Dickey, they had the same problems Rodgers and the Packers have now. No freaking defense. The Packers 48-47 Monday  win over the Redskins in 1983 was a typical game. It was like being in the WAC or something.

The 2008 Packers are almost identical, the big difference is Dickey was simply unstoppable at that stage of his career. With Lofton, John Jefferson and Paul Coffman, the Packers literally could score on any play, the problem was, so could the opponent. The tone was set opening day when the Packers beat the Oilers 41-38. Only twice that year did the Packers give up less than 21 points. Dickey threw for 4458 yards, a Packers record that will never be broken. It was Dickey who was able to at least get the Packers to a 8-8 record. For whatever reason, whether lack of experience or lack of confidence from his head coach, AaronRodgers has not been able to be that difference maker. The only difference on offense is that Dickey had a Pro Bowl tight end (oh yeah, the Packers could have had one of those a few weeks ago), but other than that, the offense is comparable. In fact, Greg Jennings is twice the receiver John Jefferson was. Lofton was a Hall-of-Famer, however, so I guess it evens out.

The biggest difference between those teams and now however is leadership. I’m not saying Ted Thompson and Mark Murphy are the greatest things since sliced bread, I’m saying the structure of the Packers is much different. Back then the team president had more to say about who was coaching and who made the team than many owners did. In 1982 Robert J. Parins replaced Dominic Olejniczak, who had been president since 1958, for heavens sakes. When Bob Harlan took over in 1989 things started to improve, especially when Harlan gave total football operations to a general manager. You may not like this general manager, but what I’m saying is as long as this structure remains in effect, the the Packers will not go through another stretch of losing like they did in the 70s and 80s. That is assuming Murphy makes the right call on the next GM.

I personally think the immediate future is very bright, provided Thompson addresses the Packers’ problems on defense. What was supposed to be a strong point this season with a first-year starting quarterback, turned into a nightmare and doomed the team from the get-go. We should have know we were in trouble when the Lions stormed to a 25-24 lead in the fourth quarter of week two. Thank Thompson for Charles Woodson and Nick Collins for that one. The Packers do have talent on defense, but the coaching talent is not the same. My choice for 2009 defensive coordinator would be the soon to be fired Lions’ coach Rod Marinelli. Anybody who can keep a winless team playing that hard and has the defensive background he has, working for Monte Kiffin, is good in my book. I wouldn’t mind Mike Nolan, either, but please no Jim Haslett.

If the Packers can improve the defense, especially the front seven, and continue to develop not only Rodgers, but Greg Jennings and receivers James Jones and Jordy Nelson, the future is bright. Donald Driver still has a few good years in him as well. To me, though, Driver is one of the guys who is at a crossroads. Driver should have been the veteran leadership on this team but have you ever heard Driver and word leadership mentioned in the same sentence? I haven’t. Driver might be playing elsewhere next year.

The Packers are still the youngest team in the NFL and at some point they have to age if they are going to win a championship. This goes for coaching too. When the Packers were winning in the 1990s most of the offensive staff and some of the defensive staff ended up with head coaching jobs in the NFL. I don’t think any of head coach Mike McCarthy’s current staff is too sought after right now. Changes need to be made, no doubt, but I think they need to start at the coaching level , not at the GM level. Not head coach, but the assistants leave more than a little to be desired. McCarthy needs to almost clean house if you ask me. He was young and inexperienced when he hired this staff and now it’s time for some of them to go. McCarthy is well respected and I don’t think he would have a problem hiring replacements.

The thing is, one player did not make the Packers 5-9. This season had to come at some point. It was made that much harder by  the unexpected success of last season. I think if the Packers could somehow win the last two games, they could feel pretty good about themselves heading into the offseason of change. There will be a new defensive coordinator, for sure, and he will bring in his own people. Charles Woodson and Al Harris will have to adjust if they want to win. Woodson has shown that is no problem by his moving to safety this year. I could see a change at offensive coordinator as well. I know MM is the main man, but the OC has to at least be able to have people lined up in the right spots.

All I want to see is a win over the Bears, especially if the Vikings lose to Atlanta Sunday. Wouldn’t it be ironic that when the Bears suck and the Packers are good we can’t beat them but when they are good and we suck we can? Irony can be pretty ironic.

  • Pete H

    I agree Al. This is a major offseason for this era of Packer teams. It could entirely shift the balance one way or the other.

  • RayL

    WOW! Everyone is to blame except TT, MM and AR. You are seriously blind…..

    AR – lack of confidence from his head coach? Are you you kidding me? DD not a leader? DD might play elsewhere next year? Well, he was BF’s go to guy….so maybe he will next on the chopping block. If we win the next 2 games we can feel pretty good? “If” we beat the bears it will break a 4 games losing streak, and we most definitley should beat the 0-14 lions at home…I don’t see that as a momentum changer…for next year. TT will have to spend big in Free agency which goes against his philosophy of building through the draft. He should have spent some last offseason….instead of worrying about BF’s locker…

  • PackFan4Eva

    Hi Al and everyone else out there!
    First let me say “Merry Christmas” to you all.
    Al, I wanted to take a moment to let you know that after reading your blog “Packers Future not Bleak” made me stop and think about the Packers and how I feel about them this year. I love reading your blogs…..Sure you fly off the handle sometimes getting real upset threatning to leave us forever. We all get upset like that now and again, but when you calm down and come to his senses you make a lot of sense…..maybe our beloved Packers are not so bad afterall…. After putting it all in perspective, I believe that you are right….We don’t need a new coach or GM, we just need to revamp all our assistant coaches…I was calling for McCarthy and Thompsons head the other day. After reading your blog I now want to beat the Bears bad! real bad and want to win the last two games. I was the guy who wanted the Packers to lose their last three games real bad so something good would positivly happen in the off-season…. But now I think that could have a worse impact maybe causeing a bad on the fly decision like maybe firing the coach. The other feeling I have now is that the off-season is real long…..and we have only two games left for the year (9 months is a long time to wait for the next Packer regular season game)……lets enjoy them as best as we can….forget about the postseason and their record…..lets just kick some Bears butt…. So GO Packers and thank you Al for making me come to my senses…Keep writing! ..I feel that I am now past the pain of the disappointing season and can move on and enjoy the last two games and then start thinking of next year….. I will say one thing about Teddy though….I will cut him some slack and give him the benefit of the doubt for one more off-season, if he doesn’t address our defense and o-line in the off-season I will have reached the end of my rope with this guy and want him gone….and this means spending some of that cash he’s been hording…. Go Pack……..Dan

  • Bleak Future

    Blaming the defensive coordinator is a common Packer fan refrain…

    I hope the Packers get away from the man-to-man coverage scheme…the risk has definitely outweighed the reward this year. That said, there is nothing about the personnel that inspires confidence that the Packers will be able to mount a championship run in the foreseeable future.

    The defensive line is weak. Absolutely, no pass rush.
    The linebackers are pathetic. Hawk is a bust. Poppinga has regressed. If Bishop sheds a half second off his forty time in the off-season he’ll be a player! Our linebackers are exceptional at tackling eight yards off the line of scrimmage while falling backwards and being driven into the ground by an offensive lineman.

  • Matt Hayton

    Enough already
    Wednesday, January 23rd, 2008

    The bottom line is while this is the second worst loss in my Packers’ history, behind only the Super Bowl loss to Denver, and just slightly above the 4th and 26 game in Philly, the time has come to move on. And in moving on I will not back off my stance that I hope Brett Favre retires. Nobody can ever overstate what No. 4 has done for the Packers, the city of Green Bay and NFL, but for the first time in his career he might not be the best option at quarterback for the Green & Gold. I know Aaron Rodgers hasn’t done a thing yet other than his strong performance at Dallas this year, but I doubt he throws the ball up for grabs in the playoffs like Favre has and still does. Favre is the Marty Shottenheimer of quarterbacks, wins big during the regular season but sucks in the playoffs. If anybody has a stat that can argue that I’m open for debate. I just think the Packers can achieve the same goals next year with Rodgers at QB that they can with Favre, and that is a reflection of how good the Packers are, not how bad.

    Hmmm….are you happy now Al? I appreciate your optimism about the current state of the Packers. You got what you wanted…Favre is gone, and your wish has been granted. There will be no INT’s thrown by a Packer QB in the playoffs this year. Because AR couldn’t get us there. And you said he would, not becasue he was that great but because the team around he was. But that team or AR, or both just went 5-9. And you are still optimistic about the franchise? Guess what you were wrong about Rodgers being the better option at QB for the 2008 season and you are wrong about the state of the franchise.

    Here’s Why: The only Packers talent that is above average is: Rodgers (maybe, but he has to start winning games in the 4th quarter, or he isn’t above average, I don’t care how bad the defense is, that is what above average QBs do in this league…they win, when they shouldn’t), Jennings, Woodson, Collins and Kampman and of those players NONE of them puts the fear of God in you like the names Manning, Patrick Willis, Haynesworth, Ray Lewis, Demarcus Ware, Brady, Adrian Peterson or Justin Tuck.

    And until that changes, the FUTURE IS BLEAK. The Packers have good players, but no great ones…maybe Jennings or Woodson.

    We are 4 FREAKIN’ years into the TT campaign and we only have 2 pro-bowlers!!!! That just isn’t getting it done. Only one of those was a TT draft pick. 4 years is plenty to build a winning franchise, but the talent just isn’t on the roster.

    As your post said, it’s not one players fault, that they are 5-9, it’s 22 mediocre to good players’ faults and one bad GM.

    And until the GM changes his strategy, or until the Packers change GM’s, the talent level on this team is going to remain the same and so will the outlook: BLEAK.

    Team needs, in order of priority:
    1. DT – who can play now.
    2. DE – who can play now.
    3. OG – who can play now.
    4. RT (or resign Tauscher)
    5. LT for the future, and they need this ASAP, Clifton is slowing down.
    6. RB – Many NFL Rosters have 2 backs better than our #1.
    7. TE – They need to go get Beckum (I know he got hurt, but the kid can play, and should be a great value pick in round 3 or 4.)
    8. CB – They need to draft another guy, in hopes to replace both Woodson and Harris in the next few years.
    9. FB or Short-yardage back (Ray Rice, would have been a great pick last year, but that pick wasn’t made; I also really liked Owen Schmitt, FB, last year…) Packers need a bruiser to punch someone in the mouth.

    Realistically, I think they are 5-9 players away from being a play-off team next year. And that can’t all be done via the draft.

    TT NEEDS TO:
    #1 – BRING IN 1-2 BLUE CHIP Free Agents (Birk, Haynesworth, Suggs)
    #2 – 1-2 Quality Starters (Stacey Andrews, Jon Runyan, Betrand Berry)
    #3 – Draft 2 Immediate Impact Players – Brian Orapko – DE (1st Pick) adn then trade back into late round1 to grab, anyone one of: Knowshon Moreno, RB or Beenie Wells, RB, Duke Robinson, G, Taylor Mays, S or Greg Selvie, DE and draft Beckum in round 3.

    #4 – Devlop two players from within or via getty lucky w/mid-tier FA: Desmond Bishop, Josh Sitton and Will Blackmon are guys on the roster I think could make a jump and FA’s like Ryan Moats, RB, Eagles; Pete Kendall, G, Redskins; Marcus Tubbs, DT, Seahawks or TE, Eric Johnson, Saints, could all be nice FA additions, at bargain prices.

    THEN the future would be BRIGHT.

    But chances are TT will bring in 1-2 quality starter FA’s, but won’t be willing to overspend for a blue chipper and he’ll draft one or two decent prospects in the draft. Leaving us 3-7 players short. And mediocre again, next season before he gets fired in January 2010. Why? You can’t teach old dogs new tricks and TT will stick to his guns.

  • Matt Hayton

    If TT really had balls, he’d fire MM and bring in Cowher, but there isn’t a chacne in hell that would happen. Because MM is TT’s guy.

    As far as Assistant Coaches: since they won’t fire MM, they need to promote Moss as DC. He’s Mike Tomlin of a couple years ago, Moss will be a head coach in this league someday.

  • Matt Hayton

    And for the record, I still say Matt Flynn will be the starting QB of the Packers by 2011. Reminds me of Brady. Kids got moxie I tell ya, he’s got Moxie.

    If TT opens up the piggy bank and goes out of character to surround AR with talent NOW, he’ll be fine, but if AR goes through another year like this one with only adequate talent around him, he’ll have a serious confidence issue by December 2009 and will be added to the list of guys like Brian Griese, Jay Fielder, etc.

    My money is on the latter not the former, just don’t think TT will change his ways.

  • TRIP

    I would love TT forever if he brought in Cowher (well maybe not forever). But many GM’s like a “yes man” more so than a coach with more experience than them. Al brought up the Dolphins and how its not as likely in today’s NFL to scratch the bottom of the bucket, too long. I disagree, look at the Lions. I’m not saying we will hit that sort of low, and with Aaron Rodgers, we better not. But note a specific change of pace in Miami this off-season. There’s a new VP, GM and Head Coach. It’s amazing how new leadership can change the game. From 1-15 to fighting for the division championship with 2 games remaining.

    But after 13-3, the LEADERSHIP of this team saw NONE OF WHAT HAPPENED THIS SEASON beforehand. It was kind of like George Bush on September 10th. Trading down for a backup QB and WR, we IGNORED needs on defense. With all the money at our hands, we IGNORED all potentially valuable free agents. And now we have a 6-10 season (prayerfully not a 5-11) to take for it. This was a disaster year and it goes far beyond the “train leaving the station”. The leadership of this team is incompetent and immature. Had we patched our lines this off-season, we might be staring down the Panthers and Giants.

  • TRIP

    Hayton,

    Flynn by 2011? I don’t believe it, but you did project a 5-11 or 6-10 and was right about that, when I screamed 9-7 or 10-6. So maybe you are right here, too.

    *shrugs*

  • Pete H

    I have to say that as much as I rail on this mgmt. I am not ready to shove them off yet. Lets see if TT can turn around his own mistakes before we say hasta. I like sone of your ideas on what they need Matt, and I agree that they need some impact people next year. They also need some of their projects to be finished, either working or gone, but I actually think they have 2 quality backs. I like Jackson. I was highly irritated when they kept force feeding Grant to “get him in rythm”. I don’t think Al didn’t say that the mgmt wasn’t at all to blame, he just said that they need to be kept for another year to make their corrections.

  • paul

    Yeah Al, didn’t the Vikings and/or the Cowbows have 9 probowlers on their team last year….both mediocre. So my statement that Favre gets another probowl nod on a MEDIOCRE team is not a stupid statement. I ‘m sure you have not watched the Jets this year, but it is obvious that Favre has had a huge impact. Leading me to believe, he was able to cover for MM horrible coaching by leading the team physically and emotionally. I’m sure he would audible a lot when MM sent out a four yard pass on a 3 and 15. The Packers would be much better than their current record if the touchdown machine would have stayed.

    Al’s statements….I’m done, I quit, I am shutting down the site, I am selling my season tickets, blah, blah, blah

  • paul

    I like Aaron Rodger but I think he is going to get hurt. Has anyone else noticed that after he throws a pass, he stands there and admires his throw while defensive players are rolling around he ankles, legs, etc. I noticed it for the first time this past week. Watch what he does after he throws. Some hypothasize that Favre never gets hurt because he falls backwards after throwing, steps back, gets out of there, etc. Watch A-Rod, he will stand there and he is getting rolled up on, knees hit all the time. I wish someone would coach him to get out of there…..oh shoot, I said coach…we might have a problem there. I is a lot tougher than I expected, but it is just a matter of time before the full knee construction is needed..especially playing in a division with Jerod Allen.

  • MacCheez

    Mrs. MacCheez just gave me an AR jersey for Christmas. So now I’ll just get two years of use out of it before it gets shoved to the back of the closet along with the three BF ones I already had? Geez, these things can start to get expensive.

    BTW, I can’t wait until we start the Matt Flynn debate and we can all start arguing about MF…

  • http://wisconsin-sports.forumotion.com button davis-slobotovich

    button davis-slobotovich cannot share Mr Davis’ optimistic viewpoint for next year’s Packers. button agrees with others here who believe Mr Thompson will not change his philosophy of team building any more than a leopard will change it’s stripes. What we see is what we get.

    button then notes the number of penalties incurred, the starting slow and playing catch-up habit, and the nearly perfected end-of-game collapse, and wonders if position/assistant coaches are the only problem here. Hearing the head coach repeatedly bemoan pad level, missed opportunities, practicing hard, and miscommunication doesn’t bolster button’s confidence.

    Follows, an echo from 4 January 2000:

    ”This is a great franchise; this is the cornerstone of this league,”, Green Bay’s general manager, said. ”Every time I walk down these hallways, I am reminded of the great tradition. This is a great responsibility. It’s all about winning and losing — that’s why they keep score.

    ”I was hoping this would be a smooth transition. But after the second three-game losing streak, it was clear it was not. Our players did not respond. There was a different pulse that was reflected in our play. I had a long discussion with (him) last night and he was not pleased, but I think he understands. I wanted a disciplined, tough, hard-nosed coach, and that is what it takes in this business. We didn’t have that here. Is he a different coach than I thought he was?
    Yes. We underachieved.”

  • AATP

    Paul continues with his Favre love…

  • matt

    What about Jim Bates? Isn’t he doing nothing in Wisconsin? He had great success when he coached with the Packers.

  • 4205

    To summarize….the defensive line was a major surprise, area of strength in 2007…probably the biggest reason (along with a few good bounces) we got to 13-3 in 2007. It then struggled stopping the run in the playoff game against NY (or at least couldn’t offset the two turnovers).

    In 2008, the line has not been strong. TT thought the strength of Jenkins, Harrell, Pickett, Kampman and addition of Thompson would be enough to keep them at a high level (so he could afford to trade Williams). Instead, injuries have wiped out all but Pick and Kamp. Cole has been average along with the replacements. Thus the dbs look bad because they have to cover too long. The backers look bad since lineman are not occupying the blockers and allowing fullbacks and tightends to get to them cleanly. The first contact on running plays is by the safeties so they get hurt. It all comes back to not being strong enough on the DL.

    The offense has amazingly been better than (or at least equal to) 2007, but with less chances their errors, drops, and some predictable play calling (really same in 2008 as 2007) have been magnified. I agree with Al that TT / MM should stay…but that doesn’t mean they get a pass for the results. It will be a tough off season for them and it should be. The pressure to perform on the field will intensify for next year.

    Lets just win the last two games to salvage some respectablity.

  • 4205

    I didn’t even mention KGB….a return to his prior pass rushing form could have been a major factor

  • paul

    AATP, I know, it is starting to sicken me (smile). Have a Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays. Peace

  • CommanderJoe

    Matt brings up a good point RE Jim Bates. No, Bates won’t return, he pissed at TT for not getting the head coaching job. However, it needs to be noted that Sanders is a disciple of Bates and his system. We don’t have the proper talent for the schemes the Packers run on offense and defense. Bates’ system is predicated on a strong four-man push at the line…we don’t have the horses there. Sanders never adjusted to the talent he has. Offensively, is the zone blocking scheme the correct one to run? Jags was the guy that best understood the nuances of that scheme and he’s at Boston College now. Joe Philbin, in my humble opinion, only has a rudimentary grasp of that scheme. It can be argued we don’t have an O line that can execute that scheme effectively. Grant makes me crazy…is he really good or just an OK back?

    The Packers fall this season is due to multiple factors:
    1. Injuries and a lack of talent to compensate-think D line
    2. TT’s lack of attention to the defense in the past two drafts
    3. TT’s refusal to look at FA’s who could have helped
    4. Poor coaching — Offense, defense, special teams–miscommunication, stupid penalties, poor game prep
    5. Brett Favre saga-those who don’t think that was a distraction are kidding themselves.

    Like many have posted here, next season will be a crucial one for MM and TT

  • paul

    Jesus Christ, I just read that the Bears are practicing outside and the Packers will not. It is suppose to be -15 wind chill at game time. I think that is one of the reasons we got beat in the Championship game last year. The Giants practiced outside and the Packers inside. MM stated the field is not in condition to practice on outside. If you are going to be an elite team, you have to make that happen. That fat fu$k is too soft to be our coach. We need a Parcells or Cower, not a pussy. God dammit, shoot. We are going to get are asses kicked because bad weather favors defenses, especially the team that practices outside.

  • Cody

    Paul… and you wonder why your posts get deleted… wow I’m glad that I don’t get to see the ones that do. Feels like a high school chat room when you talk…
    But I do agree with you, just not how you said it, we do need to be practicing outside if we expect to win cold weather games.

  • RayL

    They practiced inside for the NFC C game and then they would not wear long sleeves….hmmmmmmm Great job MM.

  • Dan

    What’s wrong with this picture?

    The Packers defense has two starting pro bowlers and the offense has none (not even a reserve).

    Packers defense sucks and has regularly given up big plays. Kind of ironic considering the number of times the secondary has jumped the under route only to get burned when the WR/TE/RB goes deep.

  • Matt Hayton

    Dan…Woodson and Collins are the only guys that have bothered to show up on that defense the entire year. Not to mention that they single-handedly (or awful close to it) set the packers franchise record for defensive TDs. They were appropriately recognized for their stellar individual play.

    Woodson got burned once when he thought was a play was over down in the Big Easy…and then I think he got burned once against Carolina. only 2 TDs given up in an entire year is fantastic for a DB in the NFL. Most of the secondary woes were due to Tramon Williams, even though he orginally came in and played well, or the other safety…but the real reason for issues in teh secodnary was aconsistent lack of pass rush for then entire season.

    Without Woodson and Collins, we probably don’t beat Detroilet in Detroliet. Could you imagine? And we aren’t even in the Tampa Bay and Vikings game (at the dome).

    Hopefully we can put this subject to rest now.

  • paul

    Cody,
    My posts that got deleted had no profanity or insults, just facts on Favre and how this team has fallen apart without leadership. The above post is one stated out of anger as it is frustrating that sitting on my couch, I can see many problems when there are people paid millions (MM/TT) cannot. Practice outside in the conditions you are going to face. It is not rocket science!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • GoPackGo

    The Bears are not good. Since we beat them , the Bears have beat the Rams and the beat the a warm weather team and a dome team in the cold.
    Sating in 1884 , the Packers are 6-0 in night games in Chicago and all them games saw the Packers have a double figure lead at the end of the first quarter and many of those games that lead would be after the first 2 Packer posessions.
    Something always seems to happen to the Bears at night in Soldier field when they see the Packers invade.
    If the Packers do not turn the ball over 4 times , they will beat the Bears. Remember that the Bears defense has had trouble all year stopping 2 dimensional offenses.

  • Larry

    I’m sitting here splitting my sides with laughter. Al and 4205 sum up my feelings pretty well. Then I read how, with an aparent snap of the fingers, Cowher and Haynesworth will come to GB and solve everything. Then I read a post that implies that he can/could see all this but MM and TT cannot. I’ve never even implied I’d be happy with mediocracy, but when I state I’ve been through it before it gets turned around that I’ll settle for 20 yrs of losing. I just love the long ones that go into detail for change. However, I do admit I admire the couch GMs because if only TT would take their advice I know the SB would be automatic. Al, I’ve only participated in this post for a short time and have been angry, entertained, humiliated, and had my say. It all adds up to opinion anyway so I’m just going to sit back, enjoy the moment (other than the losses), and move on with my life. Its great to be a Packer fan.

  • AATP

    I’m with you Larry – it’s good to be a Packer fan. Paul, right back atcha – have a great Holiday Season!!!

  • Pete H

    well put Matt….Collins and Woodson have shown up this year….Woodson more than Collins, and I think Harris has done a nice job as well. Larry, go ahead and make your back handed insult statements about couch GMs, but isn’t that what a blog is for? People can wish, make opinions and so on. Noone here is pretending that they could go out and be a stellar GM, but we are allowed to state what we think would help. What gets me is the ding dongs who get on a blog about Packer football opinions and rip people, not for what their opinions are, but for sharing them on a blog for opinions….duh…what are you doing here? If you want to argue with someone, so be it, but don’t people down for having opinions and sharing them in a place designed for just that.

  • Devil’s Advocate…

    Yeah, I’m out too. Feels like I’ve been re-reading the same book over and over and over and OVER!!! Oh, yeah……… Wow, the science behind pro-bowl selections. Everyone who makes that is the most deserving…. puke. Me thinks Wood and Collins were at the top of the list for INT’s, so they got wrote in. Let those w/too much time woulda, shoulda the hell out of it…………. I’ve read all I can handle. Think I’ll head back to Packer Palace to post. A little fluffier, but a better crowd except for a few. All you negative guys can have the site, your just depressing anyway. Have yourselves a nasty, complainy little X-mas!!!

  • Roy Jamison

    I think it’s safe to assume TT and MM will be in GB for another two years, unless everything really goes in the tank next year. Lombardi used to say it’s all about blocking and tackling. You can scheme yourself to death, but if you got guys who can’t block or tackle, what have you got? Probably this year’s version of the Packers. Nick Barnett’s injury exposed the lack of quality at LB. There’s absolutely no excuse of the defensive line. Jenkins’ injury, and the poor job at evaluating KGB much sooner, exposed the extreme lack of depth at DE. Maybe Jim Bates himself wouldn’t be up to the task of running his scheme with this group. He couldn’t do it in Denver either. Whoever is running defense next year needs to be a little more imaginative. Fritz Shurmur did an excellent job with the material he had and adapted to the skills of his players. I’m not sure Sanders is quite that imaginitive.

  • Devil’s Advocate…

    One last thing…… Keep up the good work Al. I’ve enjoyed your post and will tune in and catch them every so often. Your a piece of work, in a good way!! Enjoyed some of the other guys as well. But with the contingent of guys who think they never do anything wrong (we’ve all met the type) and expect the same (not that actually practice it), I don’t think I could stand six months of “someone stole the prize from the cereal box” posts. Merry X-mas!!

  • paul

    Devil’s Advocate….what the hell are you talking about. I checked out Packer Palace and most posts were anti TT/MM and pro Favre. I know that is what you are having a hard time with….the evidence is in and the Pack screwed up and about 80% of the fans now admit to that. Keep searching, find me a site that will discuss how great our future is going to be with TT/MM and I’ll have some good desert property out here to sell you. If debate, opinions other than yours is nasty, depressing, etc., you need help!
    Oh, by the way, I wish you a wonderful, and healthy, loving Holiday season. I hope Santa brings you everything you want, need, deserve. May God bless you and I hope you have a loving family to share it with. Now whom is being nasty.

  • iccyfan

    From the Wisconsin State Journal:
    “In the red zone, however, the Packers actually have been better than they were last season, but they’ve failed in a few high-profile situations.

    Last season, the Packers scored 27 touchdowns in 50 red-zone opportunities, a 54 percent TD rate (14th in the NFL). Mason Crosby made 18 of 19 field goal attempts, so the Packers came away with points in 45 of 50 trips (90 percent). In the playoffs, the Packers scored on all nine of their red-zone trips, scoring seven touchdowns (77.8 percent).

    This season, Green Bay has scored 25 touchdowns in 41 opportunities, a 61 percent TD rate. Crosby is 14 of 16 on field goals in the red zone, giving the team an overall percentage of 95.1. Only Tennessee (61.4), Miami (62.2), Carolina (64.3), Dallas (64.9) and NFL-leading Indianapolis (70.2) have higher touchdown percentages.

    Still, because they had to settle for field goals in the closing minutes of losses to Carolina on Nov. 30 and Jacksonville last week, then lost when their opponents answered with go-ahead touchdowns, the red-zone feeling is one of failure.”

    Interesting read; things are not always as they’re perceived!

  • Pete H

    wow, I would have thought they were much worse there…

  • Matt Hayton

    DA and Larry -
    You both pissed and moaned about Favre (and Al)…so we’ve moved onto other greener pastures, the recent subject being what can this team do to be better next year. Which is not as DA put it: I don’t think I could stand six months of “someone stole the prize from the cereal box” posts.

    Although I sit squarely in the Favre camp, there are clearly bigger issues on this team than a lack of #4…so just to clarify we are actually not re-hashing the same posts over and over again.

    And Larry…I understand that you can’t drive a school bus like a locomotive or whatever the heck your analogy was a while ago…but bringing in Cowher and Haynesworth are 2 realistic moves that literally, at the snap of one man’s fingers could easily be done. Packers have plenty of money to land a free agent and coaches get fired prior to their contracts being up all the time in the NFL: See Marty Schottenheimer, Ray Rhodes, Steve Mariucci (49ers and Lions), Cam Cameron and Bill Bellichick (w/the Browns), etc. Only difference was those teams had GMs that had balls enough to make a big move for the betterment of the team instead of staying true to “their guy”, which is the downfall of TT, which happens to be the same approach of one Mike Sherman

    And fine, if you can’t do both, then do one. Or do something else but sitting here and having the same approach as the last 4 years isn’t the answer either.

  • Michael Legat

    If you are in the mood for a very big laugh at the expense of our misfortune –

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/walkthrough/2008/walkthrough-tiebreakers-blues

    Scroll down to the section titled “Customer Service.”

  • iccyfan

    Michael L – That’s just wrong! I can be more creative that that! How about, we’re nursing a six point lead and have the ball with time running out. The Bears have no time-outs left. We snap the ball for a kneel down, but College gets knocked backwards and steps on Rodgers’ foot, who falls down and loses the ball when his elbow hits the frozen turf. Peanut Tillman pounces on the loose ball and returns it for an 80 yard TD as time expires. Johnny Jolly blocks the game winning extra point attempt, but Jermichael Finley was offsides and they get a do-over for the win!

  • iccyfan

    Matt H – You call Cowher and Haynesworth acquisitions realistic, easily accomplished with the snap of one man’s fingers. Are you serious? There will be 31 NFL teams interested in acquiring AH and probably 25 teams who’d jump at the chance to have Cowher at the controls. Have we been awarded exclusive rights to negotiate with these two and I missed it? That’s the only way it’d be easily accomplished…

    Cue the music, with video of Matt covorting on a flower covered hillside with Albert Haynesworth and Bill Cowher while singing, “I like dreamin’, cuz dreamin’ can make you mine; I like dreamin’, holdin’ you tight and feelin’ fine…”

  • Lombardi

    Cowher’s offense was pretty stupid, and that is why Pittsburgh has replaced it with something more complex. Has anyone noticed that the top two defenses in the NFL run a 3-4?

  • Larry

    Do you guys really want to see two months of icicles hanging down from our coach’s chin? Please tell me the incentives you would give some one to leave a warm studio for a few hours a week for a job 80 hrs a week and standing on the sideline for 3hrs on Sunday 1/2 the games in near freezing weather. A caviat, I suppose, would be that whomever would take the job would think there was enough talent to turn the ship around in short order. I sure hope that individual doesn’t read some of these posts or we’ll never get anyone to come in. Seems to me we called for change and got it 4 yrs ago. Sometimes getting what you ask for doesn’t always work out does it? I’ll warn you in advance; if you give me a half page of all the mistakes MM and TT have made over the last 4 years I’ll retort with – hindsight, hindsight, hindsight, and away we go again.

  • Pete H

    what about Holmgren?

  • paul

    My buddy is a huge Cleveland fan and reports were circulating that when the Browns were looking at Cowher, the price tag is 8 million per year. I would hate to have to pay that and get another Forrest Gregg. Not saying he would be Gregg, but we all had our undies in a bundle when he came to town to disappoint with his McCarthyism excuses and twitching nose tic.

  • Dan

    There’s a big difference between Cowher and Gregg. Cowher has proven success.

    What I like about Cowher is that he preaches physical football. Maybe I’m wrong, but it seems like his lines never got pushed around like we have been the last four years. Also, Cowher wouldn’t stand for a team practicing indoors during the winter.

    Although, I do recall Cowher praising Sherman for getting to the playoffs regularly. When Cowher won the SB, thousands of fans who called for his head, were jumping for joy and all was forgotten.

    So many people talk about parity in the NFL and how each year the playoff teams change. That was never mentioned when we were in the playoffs year after year.

  • Roy Jamison

    Look like a little chill in the air on Monday guys. Maybe 8 above? Too bad there’s no snow in the forecast.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if Cowher lands in Kansas City. As for mistakes TT and MM have made it really doesn’t matter. It’s all about wins and losses. Another season like this one and even Mark Murphy’s temperature will be raised a few degrees.

  • Maxaz1

    Bears 24 Packers 6. Can’t find the end zone again. Flynn plays second half. Harris and Driver gone next year. MM and TT still here. Another bad season. Al closes website and sells end zone seats after Jon returns.

  • Jeff

    Sorry, Maxaz1. Iccyfan gets the prize for predictions. Nice touch on the blocked and redone PAT.

    If the Packers show up to play, we win pulling away. We come in flat, and I might not even watch the second half.

  • Jeff

    Larry –

    Yeah – we needed change because Mike Sherman was not a good GM and the notion of giving full operations to one guy was badly outdated. When you call for change and don’t get the change you wanted, you call again, and again, and again until you get it right. You don’t stand pat on a losing hand.

    4 years with Ted at the helm and 3 with coach Mike flogging the crew has produced a team that cannot move the ball when it needs to, gets held out of the end zone when it matters most, frequently fails in short yardage situations, can’t rush the QB worth a shit with a four man rush, can’t seem to get home on a blitz, can’t consistently cover kicks and (for all the screeching about the defense) managed to score only 16 points on Jacksonville and 21 points on Houston.

    That’s not hindsight – that’s right freaking now. This is what they’ve produced for us. Yeah, I’ll wait another year (like I have a choice) but can we please beef up the D-line and either bring in some O-line help or design a system that plays to our guys’ strengths – whatever they might be?

    If this team doesn’t compete for at least a wild card next year, I’m ready to start over – again.

  • Larry

    The call for starting over now might have some merit but……..the last time we really did that was ’92. Strange, compare ’91 to ’08. QB(2)14td17int 65.1/23-12 91.8;RBunder500yds/1000+;WR(2)top960-580/1200-800;K75%/86;PRav10/12-0td/2;DBs0td/6;44sk/23. Hate stats, overrated, but Wolf came in Nov91. We all know what happened after Brett, REGGIE, and MH. I cant get the 13-3 with the same guys out of my head. The only reason to compare to ’91 is that we lost 6 games by 4 or fewer and the stats dont compare to this team after 13 games to a full year. We needed a QB then, we dont now. We had 44 sks to 23 now, but went after REGGIE. The new coach was a prior OC (but did have SBs on his resume). I’m not sure we’re going wholesale change when you look at our ytd #s but I’d bet we go D big way in draft, FA(if avail), and horrors, horrors, O personnel trade (DD?). Would not like that senario (DD), but what else do we have as trade bait for a DE or DT? Some predict Harris but I dont think the value on our side is the same. I’m aware of the trap I fall into when comparing this team to last yr, but in fairness think of all these crucial injuries and the total breakdown at pass rush (ie: KGB) The blame on TT that he or MM should have seen this coming is hogwash in my opinion.