Pete H, there was a small blip in Al’s write up about moving past the BF drama. Then one of the crazies on here used that as an excuse to go on a rant about BF (one of the excuse makers). Many of us criticized the rant and are talking about draft.

Reid -

there’s no reason to re-hash previous arguments, but essentially that was a different TT drafting this weekend, and I think the main reason is becuase he is now 100% rid of Favre. And not that he has the depth on the roster he likes…in fact, I don’t buy the BS that TT needed to completely rebuild the roster. He chose to, because he wanted his guys in place. He has improved our secondary and WR corp, but aside from that (before this past weekend)…the impact of the guys he “has rebuilt the roster” with have had a minimal impact…look at the DL, LB’s and OL from ’04…the quality of players isn’t much different, in fact you could argue that it was better in each of those areas then, that it is now (again before this years draft)
Here is a link to the roster from 5 years ago: http://slam.canoe.ca/StatsFBP/BC-FBP-LGNS-GREENBAYROS-R.html

My point is if he would have made moves like this in ’05 or ’06, we would have won a SB in ’07-’08.

If TT wants only his guys then why did he extend the contracts of the following players?

Nick Barnett
Aaron Kampan
Donald Driver
Al Harris

I know there is several more but I really don’t feel like looking them all up right now

And since no one else is bringing it up…I hope to Jesus that Favre keeps riding his tractor, since he just got his wish of being released by the Jets. Here is what I hope…I hope that Favre did this becuase he didn’t want the drama of being on the Jets reserved/retired list if Sanchez struggles next fall. That is what I hope.

However my fear is–and it would piss me off to no end, and I would lose all remaining respect for Favre– if, he did this to in fact make another comeback and play for the Vikes next season.

OK, time to tell: I haven’t liked TT since he got here. I don’t post that often but those I have made have been largely to negatively react to TT. I felt like he was ambivalent about Favre from the moment he got here when he should have been trying to build around him, I hated the Harrell pick, I’m still not sure about McCarthy,
and I will go to my grave bitching about not getting Moss when we could have had him for a bag of chips.

Having said all that, I love this draft! I especially like JeffN’s point about why to take Raji over Crabtree. As with all players only time will tell, but if he develops into a truly elite nosetackle the ripple effects for the defense will be huge. I always felt Gilbert Brown was an underrated facet of the D during the elite years of the 90′s and Raji has the potential to be Brown with some athleticism.

Initially, I was wondering about the picks for Matthews but after some research I think he’s a good fit and give TT credit for going to get his man.

I am also glad to see the Johnson pick up. One of the missing links for the last few seasons has been the ability to power run for one or two yards when we need to, and while adding Johnson does not mean abandoning the zone blocking scheme, I like the idea of big punishing FB that can knock blocks off leading the way on short yardage.

So for now, I’ll give credit where credit is due and say kudos to TT!

As far as Favre to the Vikings, I wouldn’t put it out of the realm of possibility, but let’s worry about it when it happens!

Iccy puss,

There seems to be a couple of “Pauls” on this site. I, the paul that you love, I mean hate, is me…the small case p in the name. I just find it funny that I have not posted more than twice in the last four months and you still think about me, perseverate about me, write about me, etc. Thanks buddy, I did not know I mean that much to you. I have not thought about you…really ever beyond a post here and there. Also, I will always ID you as the puss or Iccy puss. I will try to find time to come back and knock you around a bit.

My issues with Randy Moss is… how many play off games will he help you win? Don’t get me wrong Moss puts up great numbers during the season but peters out during play off time. I’m sick of players that are say pass rush specialists, or players who perfrom great during the season but don’t perform during play off time. This young group of WR we have now will help us win late in the season, play off games, cold weather games etc. I just don’t see Moss being there for his team after a long road into the play offs. While I don’t thing Jennings will have the regular season numbers Moss has, I think Jennings will have bigger play off numbers and probably even super bowl numbers.

The right thing to try to end the Brett Favre saga, would be for the Packers to sign him for a 1 day contract, and Brett retire for good as a packer, the way it should’ve played out before. And then we can all forget this mess with him as a jet, just like we did with our Great Reggie White when he played that stupid one year with the panthers.

Bob – let’s all hope that is what is going to happen and he doesn’t embarrass himself any further.

I’m looking forward to a strong d-line this year as well. Hell I’m looking forward to a strong 2009 play off campaign. Don’t mean to get the cart in front of the horse but we will get an immediate impact from the 2 first rounders plus the draft from the previous year 2008 will start paying some dividends in Josh Sitton, Jermicheal Finly, Jordy Nelson, and maybe even Breno Giacomini. Whereas last year those guys didn’t get a lot of playing time and this year they will. Plus with this whole team being young you gotta figure that guys from drafts prior will be stepping up as well. This is the year you will see a lot of players come out of the woodwork.

When making those draft type trades, there’s a little calculation to what that number 2 and pair of 3s would make in dollars compared to a number 1. As it turns out, this class will make more than last year.
Credit to the Journal Sentinal
“According to NFL sources with access to league salary data, the Packers’ rookie salary pool this year is $5,443,396, almost $1.4 million more than it was in 2008.”
You wonder what Aaron Kampman was thinking when he saw our old friend Jamal Reynolds making big bucks and stinking it up while Aaron made the little bucks and made a difference.

The defensive picks in the beginning of the draft were cool, I just wanted to give Aaron Rodgers one of those explosive receivers, but Jennings, Driver, and Jones is a solid group. I think Raji and Matthews will work out though.

Agreed Matt Hayton – TT changed his draft philosophy this year b/c he knows he has to win now to save his %#$^^% job and if he did that from day 1, we would have won another SB.

TT is a piece of ^%$$^ and cant wait to see BF end his career with MN by beating TT and hopefully running him and MM out of GB. Yes, I hate the man that much…

RayL and Matt if you step back and look at TT objectively you’ll realize he’s terribly limited and there’s is no sense hating him for it. He’s probably doing the best he can. He’s afraid of free agency and in the NFL there are few good trades so he has to rely on the draft. He’s either cheap or overly cautious of aging vets like Sharper and Wahle and won’t go after a Gonzalez or Moss. I believe he misjudged the opportunity we had in ’07 but a lot of people did and TT didn’t seem to have any sense of urgency until this year(trading up to the 1st round) and after the 4-12 year( signing Woodson). The only way to tell if he’s cautious or just cheap is how he handles the contracts of the young players he drafted. If he bungles that we’re screwed. Keep in mind he’s lost two CFO’s for some reason and Brandt was really respected for his contract management.

Michael Legat, there are those who are ignorant as to the reason TT was brought on board: To rebuild the team. We were aged at QB, DE, and others, and about to get there at OT and CB. Somehow, with a hell of a lot of luck, we came up with a 13-3 yr which sent our hopes soaring that we achieved the impossible within a couple of yrs. Not so, as last yr confirmed. The newbies weren’t ready when the injuries started piling up. Well, here we are pretty much mission accomplished with the pieces in place which will field a completely new team from (5) yrs ago. A total roster overhaul that I for one think will be a better team than in the Sherman era. One that will win the Division in ’09. If I am correct we can now concentrate on that “elusive” FA that will put us into the SB just like Wolf did it. Certainly our team SPARKLES compared to anything else in our Division and the entire team will be about the same age. A few starters (OT and CB come to mind) will change but I think the replacements are now on the roster. New systems both on O and D, new personnel, and young fliers on STs. AND…………a few bucks in the bank.

You’re right Jeff, and Holmgren didn’t do too good with it in Seattle either. Frankly, the only one that I can remember doing it real well was St. Vincent. I know my outllook is extremely optimistic, but I just don’t see any other improvement in the Division to think we won’t win it. The Bearse have a QB, but nobody to throw to other than a TE, and they’re D has really slipped. The Vikes have a D as long as the Williams’ play, but a one man gang on O unless Harvin comes thru like an all-pro. But who throws to him? Detroit, well, Detroit is Detroit with a rook at the most critical position. Think back to all the knocks AR took at the beginning of last season, and he had studied for a few years even tho he hadn’t played a lick. I’m just a little surprised that the draft went as well as it did for us this year.

Looks as if Favre will be throwing it in Vikeville, Larry. The good part about Favre is that he will want to keep his consecutive starts streak alive, so he’ll be out there every week, even if all he can do is lob balls to the wr’s. The team will have to take one for him if he gets hurt.

Larry Says:

May 4th, 2009 at 9:54 am
Michael Legat, there are those who are ignorant as to the reason TT was brought on board: To rebuild the team. We were aged at QB, DE, and others, and about to get there at OT and CB. …Well, here we are pretty much mission accomplished with the pieces in place which will field a completely new team from (5) yrs ago. A total roster overhaul that I for one think will be a better team than in the Sherman era.

We disagree on ignorance…It is ignorant in my opinion to make a given team as the point of reference for both the team that needed to be rebuilt and the benchmark for which you aspire to become better than, which is what you said here.

KGB, Kampman and Jenkins were starters on that DLine, only KGB has been replaced and that was just last year. Also Cole and Williams were both on the roster, so in my opinion we were actually a young and talented D-Line, not old and needing to be replaced as you suggest.

OL was Tausch, Cliffy, Wells, Rivera and Wahl…Rivera was the only old one in the group. Wahl should have been resigned and we would have been one player away from a dominant OL in their prime, so I also disagree that we were old at OT.

CB – Al Harris was one of our starters and has been a 2-time pro-bowler since TT has been here. Obviously Ted brought in Woodson, but if Sherman was still the GM that year, he would addressed CB, since Carroll was a bust out of the gate. Woodson would have been a logical move for Sherman since he had no problem going after free agents. So I argue the Woodson move to be moot point.

QB – Favre was 35 when TT took over. QB was the ONLY position we we’re getting old at…your argument has a swiss cheese amount of holes in it…only 1 of the 4 positions was old as you suggest. Not to mention guys like: Donald Driver, Ahman Green and Bubba “TD” Franks were in their primes and Javon Walker was a young and rising star in the league.

Packers starters:
OL – Tausch, Rivera, Wells, Wahle, Clifton: Rivera was old and needed to be replaced.
RB – Ahman Green – prime
TE – Bubba Franks – prime
WR – Donald Driver, Javon Walker and Robert Ferguson – prime

DL – Kampman, Jenkins, Grady and KGB – only Grady was old…
w/Cole and Williams off the bench

LB – Barnett, Diggs, Lenon – don’t think Hawk or Poppinga are better than Diggs or Lenon…

CB – Harris and Carroll – obviously…
S – Sharper and Roman

In my opinion, we were 4 players away from being a Superbowl caliber team (1 OG, 1 DT, 1 CB and 1 Safety) …If TT resigns Wahle and Sharper, instead of signing Pickett, then signed Woodson, drafts Collins and Nick Mangold in the ’05 draft…this team wins a SB, as is, without him “rebuilding the roster”…

But for whatever reason…TT had to go and rebuild, instead of reload…I’ll never understand why he passed on that opportunity (05-08 seasons) in order to rebuild for 5 years to get back to that same level, which is what he is hoping for in ’09 and ’10… the only reason I can think of is that he wanted to do it with a team he built instead of with the team that Holmgren/Wolf and Sherman did…becasue they would get the credit and he wouldn’t, and he was okay with that.

Larry -

so that post was too long, I apologize. Here’s my deal…I think all TT needed to do when he took over was add 3-4 players to the roster he inherited in order to make us a super bowl cliber team in ’05-’08.

Agree or disagree?

My point is that they were closer then to winning a super bowl than we are now and rebuilding the roster to accomplish that goal was not only unneccessary but a mismangement of a golden opportunity to capitalize on a roster loaded with pro-bowl talent…Tausch, Clifton, Driver, Green, Favre, Harris, Barnett, Kampman, KGB, etc.

It’s comparable to Terry Semel not buying Google for $1 billion when he had the chance…opportunity was knocking but he didn’t hear it, because just like Semel, TT wanted do it his way…

Well, Matt Hayton, when you go to that length to prove a point I give you an A for effort. However, about all you accomplished with your thesis is that the Packers should have kept Sherman. To pick at your logic would take as much space as you did and in the end, for whatever reason, they didn’t win with that group anyway. Of the (10) pro-bowlers you cited (etc included), its my opinion (3) were on their last legs, (3) are there now, Barnett and Kampman are probably OK, and Driver is just like the Energizer Bunny I guess. You imply TT has an ego problem but yet he doesn’t write essays making his point. Still baffles me how so many of you take so many shots at the Packers and are still Packer fans. I don’t think I could stay loyal to a team that constantly did so many things wrong. That kind of frustration can’t be healthy; am I wrong matt? Sounds like solid data, lets hope!

Matt Hayton Says:
“Obviously Ted brought in Woodson, but if Sherman was still the GM that year, he would addressed CB, since Carroll was a bust out of the gate. Woodson would have been a logical move for Sherman since he had no problem going after free agents. So I argue the Woodson move to be moot point.”

I read your op-ed with interest until reaching this paragraph, in which you make four reaching assumptions about Sherman to make YOUR point that TT should receive no credit for the Woodson signing.

I’ll take the opposite tact, with just as much basis in fact as yours (namely none), and opine. 1) Sherman didn’t see Batman as a bust and 2) would have stuck with his draft pick, so 3) there would have been no reason to pursue Woodson because 4) Big Mike was leery of significant free agent signings after the Joe Johnson fiasco.

Larry-

FACT: Harris was 30 (but has gone to 2 pro-bowls since) and Favre was 35 (same w/#4, 2 pro-bowls) when TT took over. FACT: everyone else on that list was 28 or younger…and ALL of those players listed started for the first 2-3 years when TT was here, many of them going to pro-bowls…he had an opportunity to pony up with those horses by adding 3-4 impact guys, but TT refused to pull the trigger on Junior Seau, Moss, Gonzalez, Adrian Peterson, etc. (could’ve traded up 9 spots to get him instead of Harrell)…which is why that group didn’t win in ’06-’08.

I didn’t even mention Wahle who was also only 27 at the time as well…so if they were not in their “prime” at 27-28 and the old guys mentioned, both went to pro-bowls, then when in the hell is a football team in their prime, Larry? Walker, Wahle and Sharper also went to pro-bowls…13 players of 22 starters were pro-bowl players…

As I alluded to last night, in my opinion, TT pulled a Terry Semel, who was CEO of yahoo, had the chance to buy google for $1 billion in 2002. But elected not to becasue he thought the price was too high to pay for a ready-built search technology and instead, tried to build a search technology on his own. Yahoo wasted 5 years trying to replicate google, while google was dominating the space and becoming a $15 billion dollar company, only 2-3 years after Semel had the chance to buy them for a $1 billion, talk about ROI! Same deal…TT had a ready-built roster…13 pro-bowl players on the roster when he took over, could have gotten quick and immediate ROI by leveraging those assets, but instead he began to unneccessarily rebuild a roster…and now 5 years later, he still is coming off of a 6-10 season.

I thought it was the right move to replace Sherman, but TT screwed it up. He didn’t have to rebuild the roster. It wasn’t broken, but his ego got in the way. His only vindication now is to win a SB with these guys, because he has already blown an opportunity to win one with the roster he inherited.

Larry-
tried to keep this post to one page length…good advice. I know I can be long-winded…I regressed last night, apologies.

Good memories Roy! While there were many memorable SNL sketches in the old days (absent-minded Ronald Reagan simultaneously entertaining girl scouts and planning Iran Contra with Ollie North is probably my favorite), the most memorable single line was Akroyd to Curtain. She went first and his very slow drawn-out rebuff began with, “Jane, you mag…ni…ficient…ly ig…norant slut……” It still makes me laugh out loud twenty-five years later…

That might have been 1984, the same year Lynn Dickey pulled off the best upset in MNF history, beating the Redskins 48-47 when Mark Mosely missed a FG as time expired! Let’s keep the good vibes goin’….