Rocky 70, I’ll never get your vitriol. Didn’t he play hard enough for you. If #4′s legacy is “tainted” maybe you would consider giving back all those wins, like they’re talking about with Manny Ramirez in Boston?

He played in New York last year to stick it to TT? How exactly does that work? They didn’t even play the Packers last year. I guess he really showed, TT, huh?

I saw Favre on Greta last year, saw a whole bunch of his interviews in New York, and don’t remember him saying I’m here to show Ted Thompson up. Provide the quote in full context if you want me to comment on it. I do seem to remember him making a comment to Greta, something like initially his feeling was if the Packers didn’t want him that we would like to play in the division against him, but he want on to qualify that. Also, I think that’s a pretty natural reaction in a highly competitive field.

My point is I doubt he has the Packers on the brain as much as some on here seem to feel, and doubt that he has that much since the time he showed up in NY last year.
Most of the thumb sucking has been going on by the nits on this site who can’t seem to let go of their favorite toy.

Fact is Rocky, you’re the one who’s sounding self-centered and petulant. You’ve already plotted your revenge, haven’t you. And, I’m sure he doesn’t give a rats ass for people that don’t appreciate that he EARNED everything he’s accomplished. As far as sticking it to TT you’re choosing to ignore the fact that most people are motivated by showing people that dump them they made a mistake, maybe you’re an exception but you sound pretty vengeful to me.

@ Mark

You have revenge confused with truth. If you’re happy with only those “fluffy feel good memories” of BF, more power to you. Not all people live in a fantasy world protected by their illusions of what they think to be truth. Some of us want to know the actual truth.

BF’s fall from grace is a self-inflicted wound. It has nothing to do with me.

Everyone sure seemed ok with Reggie White coming from Philadelphia and help the team win a superbowl and thats ok? Did Philly fans whine about it? Why is Favre so much of a god that he cant go play somewhere else like anybody else does. He’s a professional athlete and he’s no different.

Rocky,
Your posts lack knowledgeable content most of the time. Packer_bob’s posts are much more “fact based and complete” than anything I have seen from you. When you get personal and insult the writer, it is usually an indication you are losing the debate. Your insecurity does not flatter you. Grow up!

Rocky,

This is isn’t a “fact” based discussion. My point is guys like Al and you that bash an all-time Packer great like Brett Favre because he won’t do what you want are way out of line and complete whiners. My point is we don’t have any claim on Favre and he can do what he wants, including play for the Vikings even if his sole motive is to drive Al insane.

What is so hard to understand about that? You may not agree with my opinion, but “facts” (whatever the hell you mean by that) have nothing to do with it.

Look, Favre is my all-time Packer favorite. He has provided nothing but memories……some not so good, but memories none the less. However, if someone wants to bash him, it is their free will. As you say, we don’t hold any claim over him, just as he doesn’t over us. He is as free to be bashed as anyone. He has also put himself in that position these last couple years. It doesn’t, nor will it ever change my opinion of him, but every Packer fan is entitled to their own opinion.

Packer-bob, I agree. #4 going to another team hurts but we should just move on. He’s flawed, he’s older but he was a lot of fun to watch and cheer for. He gave us too many good years for the venom I see on this blog. #12 was ready to take over and #4 leaving was the best outcome for our future so I don’t feel jerked around like some people do. I’m not proud of my post to Rocky 70, sorry.

The Last Time The Legend Won a Super Bowl at age 27….(use the Wayne’s World flashback music if you want)
Super Bowl XXXI was an American football game played on January 26, 1997 at the Louisiana Superdome in New Orleans, Louisiana to decide the National Football League (NFL) champion following the 1996 regular season. The National Football Conference (NFC) champion Green Bay Packers (16-3) defeated the American Football Conference (AFC) champion New England Patriots (13-6), 35–21. This was the Packers’ third overall Super Bowl victory, and their first one since Super Bowl II. The Packers also extended its league record for the most overall NFL championships to 12.(and holding)

Interesting Facts about the legend…
Favre was born in Gulfport, Mississippi, and raised in the small town of Kiln. He is of French and Choctaw ancestry; one of his paternal grandparents was a Native American affiliated with the Choctaw. He was the second of four children and attended Hancock North Central High School where he played baseball and football. Favre started for the Hancock North Central baseball team as an eighth–grader and earned five varsity letters. He played quarterback, lineman, strong safety, placekicker and punter in a primarily option, run-oriented offense coached by his father, Irvin Favre.

Irvin Favre said he knew his son had a great arm but also knew that the school was blessed with good running backs. As a result, in the three years Brett was on the team, his father ran a run-oriented offense called the wishbone. Favre rarely threw more than five passes in a game.

Mark, the things you state are the reasons I don’t think people should so pissed off about 6-10. Gotta take the good with the bad. Had we gone 8-8 or 9-7 we might still be sitting with Bob Sanders instead of Dom Capers. Alos from this draft we would of gotten 1 player from of the middle of round 1 instead of Raji and Mathews. So basically we would be set for several more 8-8 or 9-7 seasons instead I think we are headed for some pretty serious play off action with these 3 major changes on defense. It’s all about taking the good with the bad. That’s the NFL.

packer_bob, I didn’t think we would fall that far unless #12 got hurt and he seemed more fragile than it turned out. Looking back TT didn’t bring in any starters last year and lost C. Williams, KGB and Jenkins on top of the punter deal which I still don’t get. I think this year we’re still relying on rookies and young players too much so I’m willing to give TT a pass this year on playoffs if I see improvement. But if he screws up the contracts on the new players like he did with Grant, he better get someone more persuasive than Ari Fleischer to cover his ass.

I love this draft also, and agree that players like Raji and Mathews could be impact players right from the start. That and what I consider a pretty light schedule prior to late in the year give us an excellent chance to make the playoffs.

But then again, I’d have bet money we would have made the playoffs last year, epecially if you had told me ahead of time Rodgers numbers for the year. I am stoked about the potential we have moving forward, but there is always a vast chasm between potential and getting it done. Same for the change to 3-4, coaching changes etc.

As far as Gullickson and the other coaches that were gotten rid of, they weren’t hired for no reason either. I’m just wondering if we don’t see big improvement this year (and I think we will), what then? Hopefully my hand wringing will look silly by the time we’re on a big playoff push later this year!

Larry, it’s not just Collins it’s Jennings, College, Spitz, Kampman, Pickett, Blackmon, Bigby, Jolly and others coming up. I don’t think it’s going to be productive to do the PR deal about calling players and there agents greedy and selfish. It’s better to address the negotiations early and trade security for money the way Brandt talked about. TT hasn’t got a great track record with this stuff, he’s lost 2 CFO’s. We’re not going to get anything back in free agency draft picks or the way TT works, players, so we better keep the ones we need.

Lew, I think everyone knows that but some people’s feelings are hurt that #4 can even think about playing for another team. And, a lot of people, including Al, blame him for our playoff losses. If not every loss he ever had. I get nuts when I see these posts but I’m not going to change any ones feelings so I’ve decided to cool it. BTW maybe I was prejudiced because he was a Packer and I remember a lot of fans from other teams wishing he’d get hurt(the only player I felt that way about was Unitas after he came back and beat us, I’m ashamed to admit) but I really enjoyed watching him play.

First off, I believe Thompson mishandled the Favre thing from the moment he got here, not just last year, by going into re-build instead of re-tool mode. People can debate this all they want, but it was obvious to me and I think certainly became obvious to Favre over time, that TT was ready to go in another a direction from almost the moment he got here. If you agree with that, fine, but I think he probably paid Favre lip service and then did the opposite, which if you put yourself in Favre’s shoes would get old really quick and create an environment of mistrust. (Ex., Favre says he would like to keep at least some of the line intact when both Rivera and Wahle are up for new contracts and then both leave, Favre thinks we should pursue Moss and then we pass, etc.) I could come up with others, but I don’t want to make this too long. The point is if you’re Favre and you’re suggesting things and management does the opposite EVERY time, what are you supposed to think? I also blame management for poor communication to both Favre and the fans.

Specifically to last year, I believe the secret to Favre’s retirement announcement, which surprised the hell out of me after the year he had, is to be found in Bus Cook’s comment at the time to the effect that they “didn’t shove him out the door but they didn’t open it for him either.” After an MVP caliber season, they should have went to Favre and said “Brett, we were this close and we need you back!” unless of course they didn’t want him. Which is fine, but why not just tell him that then? Instead they say we’d like your decision a little earlier this year and pass on Moss again. I believe from the moment TT got here he wanted Favre gone but couldn’t be known as the guy who forced Favre out of Green Bay, so he did everything he could to show Favre the door but always payed lip service to “of course, we want him back, it’s his decision etc.”

After Favre announces his desire to return to playing for the Packers last year, management should have either took him back or released him imo. Instead it drug out and drug out, where they were still playing this game that they really didn’t him want him back but wouldn’t say so publicly. This includes sending new president Mark Murphy down to buy him off, the hiring of Ari Fleischer for spin control, McCarthy’s “the train had left the station” press conference, and the ridiculous press conference with all three doing everything to evade questions and not give a straight answer. Management felt he was enough of a weapon to engineer to trade him to a team they knew we wouldn’t play until 2014 or something like that, but evidently wasn’t enough of a weapon to bring back for us.

Sorry this drug on for so long, but I wish they had just had the balls to say we’re done and give him his release or help engineer a trade to someone he wanted to play for. I know Favre’s been wishy-washy, but I believe management neve told the truth in this deal for several years and were very deceptive in what went down last summer, to both Favre and the fans. Also, part of managing is managing relationships and egos as well as making decisions, and the fact that the relationship deteriorated to the point it did speaks of their failure on that count.

One more thing. You don’t make trades within the division, cardinal sin in the arena of football. You just don’t do that whether you are dealing with Favre, any other player, or draft picks. It’s just a very basic thing you don’t do in the NFL.

In MM “train is leaving the station” press conference I thought he was pretty direct about Rodgers being the guy. Not sure what else you want from MM. From Favre’s retirement speach on he was pretty direct on Rodgers is the QB of this football team.

You know what p_b, I’ll (for the moment) accept your items 1 thru 4 as truth. I don’t blame the Pack for handling the situation the way they did and I still support MM/TT/MM. It still amazes me why these guys are here when they’re so volatile against the management. Since this is a new year, a new team, new systems, and dare I say a lot of new coach(s) how can you not support the entity. You detractors put yourself in the position of always having to explain yourselves by loving the Packers but hating who they are and what they do. How many downer posts have gone on to point out the lousy coaching, lousy players, lousy drafts, lousy management, and even “losing” the last two CFOs. Its like hate the sin, love the sinner; when in reality, even tho you’re supposed to, you really can’t stand the sinner either. Fair weather fans come to mind?

Fair enough, p_b maybe my last post doesn’t apply to you; also you weren’t on this blog (to my recolectrion) a month ago when the real venom was spewing. We are arguing opinion anyway. The facts are BF is gone and TT is in charge. Like it or not the team is the team – top to bottom!

P_B, your 1 through 4 is all what you think went on behind the scenes and none of that is fact it’s just what you believe, so if you want to believe a bunch of stuff you are not really sure is true I guess that is your choice. The way I look at it is the Pack had a very difficult situation dealing with all the drama that came along with the Favre divorce. They made all the right decisions along the way landing on their feet with Aaron Rodgers. They also got a free ace handed to them out of deck with Dom Capers being available this off season and then a second free Ace from the deck with Raji available at #9. Gotta take the good with the bad. The divorce was ugly but we are headed in a very positive direction this season and into the future beyond.

We can agree to disagree on how Packers management handled the situation. I was just curious on why people think it was so mishandled, you told me.

It is kind of nice talking about Favre with a different team or maybe retiring instead of whether or not he is going to be in Green Bay. At this point I think 95% of fans are ready to move on into this next season with the team that we have and be excited about it. Before we know it… it will be just like old times again.

2-The relationship deteriorated to the point of divorce, did it not? And I don’t just mean not taking Favre back, I mean the bad blood caused with both Favre and the fans. Smart manager’s employ good communication with valued employees and don’t have these problems.

3-They sent Murphy to buy him off, hired a spin doctor, and the situation drug out, did it not? Your first loss is your best loss–cutting him lose with the organization’s blessing was a better option for the franchise, the fans and Favre.

4.–I guess this is debatable, but it was pretty clear to me they avoided answering direct questions directly. This is known as dissembling. Answering a question that wasn’t asked, deflecting, changing the subject etc. is tactic employed by lawyers, public relations spokesman, politicians, spin doctors—so guess how seriously I took the veracity of their comments. Say what you want about Favre, he speaks from the heart and actually says too much, which I think contributed to all this media brouhouha going back to the very first few years of “will he or won’t he” comeback.

There probably isn’t a way to “prove” my case on 4, but at the very least they weren’t forthright.

Larry, I wasn’t very clear in my last post so I’ll try to do better.

Being concerned about the contract negotiations doesn’t = I hate the management which doesn’t = I hate the Packers.

The reason I’m concerned is if we lose our players to free agency current rules we will get a fraction of their value(the bottom of the 6th round for Collins, if that). And, since TT doesn’t use free agency he’ll never get us back what we lose(O’Dwyer for Wahle).

Letting negotiation slide and name calling players and agents isn’t constructive. It would be better to work toward something mutually agreeable early. If contract talks get to be public it’s already pretty late.

I’m a worrier and this problem is the only one I see that could derail a very bright future.

The afterthought: The only reason Whale comes up now and then is because we haven’t been able to replace him, not because we let him go by being cheap.

I just don’t think you lose anything when somebody outbids you. My point is that its the inability to plug someone else in that hurts. There is a pecking order in that skills make a lot more than grunts and to pay a grunt skill wages he’s got to be a perenial All-Pro. Sure, there are a lot of other factors that go into personnel decisions, and so many that we are not privy to.