Special teams, defense key to 2009

This is easily the worst month of the year for NFL fans, there is simply nothing going on, the Interception Machine not withstanding. With two weeks to go before training camp opens for the Green Bay Packers I think the 2009 season hangs in the balance between special teams and defense. The Packers offense was one of the NFL’s best last year and should be even better this year. The emergence of players like Jordy Nelson and Jermichael Finley will only compliment receivers Donald Driver and emerging star Greg Jennings. At running back I believe Ryan Grant will return to his 2007 form after a full offseason in the Packers’ system and nothing needs to be said about quarterback Aaron Rodgers. After one year Rodgers is clearly one of the top ten quarterbacks in the league and if he starts another 16 the Packers are headed for good things. Providing, however, the Packers’ defense and special teams improve dramatically this year.

The Packers’ defense was absolutely horrible last year. It was like they were throwing popcorn at their opponents. Special teams was just as bad. With the worst punter ever to suit up in an NFL game and a kicker who can’t kick in the clutch, the Packers lost most of their games on account of special teams and defense. Offensively Rodgers threw six of his interceptions in two bad games and never had more than one in his other 14 games. Ryan Grant ended up ninth in the NFL last year with 1203 yards and anybody who says head coach Mike McCarthy doesn’t run the ball enough might want to ask Grant that question. Last year Grant had the fifth most carries of any back in the NFL, five carries away from third. If anything McCarthy ran the ball too much last year not trusting his first year starter at quarterback.

I’m not worried about the defense improving under new coordinator Dom Capers, that is a given if you ask me. Shawn Slocum has impressed me slightly with his approach to special teams which is certainly different than his predecessor Mike Stock. The defense was never in good hands with Bob Sanders. There was never any identity. Under Capers there will be a clear identity and much more accountability. If anyone thinks the Packers won’t be ready to play opening day, like Florio and other experts, they are going to be sorely mistaken. Slocum has a much harder job than Capers if you ask me, but I think he is like Capers and is taking over a unit that has the players to be successful. I want to see Jordy on kickoffs and Will Blackmon on punts. I try to find areas of weakness and the only things that worry me are offensive line and their ability to keep Rodgers healthy. I’m sorry, but confidence is high.

This entry was posted on Tuesday, July 14th, 2009 at 11:06 pm and is filed under Al Davis. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

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  • packer_bob

    Jerry Tagge in his first season as a starter:

    3-3 record, 2 TD/7 ints, 1 rushing TD, 53.2 rating. And this guy was a number one pick?

  • packer_bob

    Anyone hear about Roethlisberger being accused of sexual assault?

  • Roy Jamison

    C’mon Jerry Tagge may have sold more popcorn and cokes than any one else when he had that job. What about Randy Wright? wow was he good in his first year.

  • packer_bob

    Roy,

    I take it Jerry Tagge was highly touted when he arrived? That was a little before my time.

  • Roy Jamison

    and how ’bout those glory years with the guy we gave up a couple of second round picks for…Jim Del Gaizo…that was sensational football.

  • packer_bob

    Just looked it up, Wright was 7-25 in games he started, wow is that bad!

  • packer_bob

    Del Gaizo, 1-5 with a 37.3 QB rating, lol!

  • Devil’s Advocate…

    jackson,

    I take a look every day but haven’t posted in a while. Me thinks that there isn’t much left to be said, that hasn’t been. I’ve already been down that road a while back. The Favre thing seems to drum up lots of post though………… you should go ahead and have fun w/it. There’s not much else to post about. Except…………..

  • iccyfan

    packer_bob Says: “You can pick any QB you like (including BF) & AR has better stats in his 1st year of starting a full 16-game season.”

    “OK, I pick this one, Steve Young’s 1st year of starting 16 games:
    14-2 win/loss, 25 TD to 7 Int, 4 rushing TD’s with a 107 rating.”
    ===================================================

    Since you’ve cited the fact that AR got three years to learn the system (quote cut & paste:”How many of these guys had 3 years in the same system under their belt before they were asked to be the starter”), I suppose the truth behind your comparison should come to light. I’m sure you already know this, but:

    Steve Young played two years in the USFL and was in his eighth NFL season when he posted the numbers you cite. He was 31 years old, had started 39 NFL games and inherited a dynasty at the peak of it’s power.

    A better comparison might be his fourth season of “professional football”, where at age 25, he started 14 of 14 games for the Buccaneers, posting a 2-12 record with 8 TD’s, 13 INTs and a QB rating of 65.5.

    I’ll agree the statistics are meaningless, but it’s fun none-the-less. Also, for someone who abhores misinterpretation of such, you sure seem to like the manipulation game when it suits your purpose…

  • packer_bob

    Iccy,

    Way to pick up on the Young thing but that’s exactly why I posted it, because this “first season as a 16 game starter” is stupid in general and complete lunacy when taken out of context. I picked Young precisely to illustrate that point.

    Otherwise, I pick Marino’s first full year as a 16 game starter, which was his 2nd in the league:
    14-2, 5084 yards, 48 TD to 17 Int, 108.9 rating, trip to the SB.

    Nobody in football would have thought that would be Marino’s only chance at a title. That’s why I’m saying this crystal ball stuff after one season is daft.

  • Punk

    Tagge wasn’t highly touted, just a hometown guy as I recall.

  • Roy Jamison

    Yeah Jerry Tagge, was a number one pick out of a school that has produced a gazillion great qbs…just can’t think of any of them making it in the NFL…that the University of Nebraska where Jerry is still pretty big stuff!

  • Roy Jamison

    I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention another great number one quarterback pick that being Rich Campbell who Bart Starr personally chose…over Ronnie Lott.

  • iccyfan

    Bob – It’s kinda funny how you “keyed” on an inconsequential part of Rocky’s challenge, namely the “16 Game” portion. Any way you slice it, AR’s initial season as starter gives cause for future hope. That Marino season might never be equaled in it’s entirely, though a few have mounted a challenge (Brady & Brees recently). I guess it goes to show that a QB can’t win the SB by himself, illustrating how daft it is for you and your motley horde to continue giving BF all the credit for his fine Packer record (and bashing AR for 6-10).

  • packer_bob

    Ok, let me try again.

    If someone wants to say “Rodgers had a really good first season, that gives me hope for the future”, I would agree.

    If someone wants to pull stat lines and make comparisons that are completely pointless and arbitrary, I’m calling bullshit.

    If someone says this: “You can pick any QB you like (including BF) & AR has better stats in his 1st year of starting a full 16-game season.”—and I call them on it (twice), I’m not sure how I “keyed” in on anything other than what they said. Rocky evidently didn’t think it was inconsequetial since he’s the one making the comparisons in the first place. Maybe he was trying to avoid comparisons to partial seasons or before they played 16 game seasons, I don’t know.

    The point is I need to see some success over time and some winning records before I’m going to say anymore than deserves to be said, that Aaron Rodgers had a nice first season. I just don’t have the crystall ball you guys do, so I can’t go any further than what I’ve seen.

  • packer_bob

    Iccy,

    Taken over the course of 16 years and the level of talent that surrounded him on some of those teams, it is flat out amazing that he had one losing season out of 16. Of course he didn’t do it all himself, he doesn’t deserve all the credit, but those of you not exactly on the Favre bandwagon saddle him with alot of blame too, some fair some not IMO.

    And being concerned about 6-10 and the ability to finish games is not “bashing.” I have three concerns, exactly what it means, about Aaron Rodgers in no particular order: his ability to stay healthy, his ability to sustain his level of play of ONE season for more than that, and being able to play big in come from behind situations. I don’t see how that equates to “bashing” him.

  • Rocky70

    Notice how PB is still trying to tell everyone else how to analyze players & teams.

    Even if we present real numbers, the only time PB is satisfied is if the stats put his idol on the pedestal.
    The rest of us are looking at the 2009 players & predicting an optimistic outcome. Isn’t that what a fan does ?

    One question for PB:

    How will you respond if GB wins the North Division with AR in the running for NFL MVP? …………..And BF is benched by mid-season as a Viking ??

    Please be honest. This is an easy question. (No long drawn out explanations – keep it simple)

  • packer_bob

    “Even if we present real numbers, the only time PB is satisfied is if the stats put his idol on the pedestal.”—I’m sorry? I said the comparison is asinine, it has nothing to do with Favre. And what are the “real numbers” again?

    If we win the North and AR is in the running for MVP, I’ll be thrilled! If we win the Super Bowl, I’ll be elated!

    Dealing with Favre as a Viking would be harder to answer. Can’t say I would ever want to see him benched or embarassed—I wasn’t a fan of watching Ali get his ass kicked at the end of his career either. Let’s say I’d say I’d like to see him do well, but not TOO well if you know what I mean.

  • packer_bob

    “Notice how PB is still trying to tell everyone else how to analyze players & teams.”

    I’m telling you that posting this:

    BF – 1993 (24 years old)
    19 TDs with 24 INTs & a QB rating of 72.2.
    3303 yards. Sacked 30 times. One rushing TD.

    AR – 2008 (25 years old)
    28 TDs with 13 INTs & a QB rating of 93.8.
    4038 yards. Sacked 34 times. Four rushing TDs

    does not necessarily lead to this: “Looks like GB Fans can feel confident that the QB position is well manned for years to come.” and that the comparision is asinine no matter who the comparison is to.

    I’m also saying you were wrong about this: ““You can pick any QB you like (including BF) & AR has better stats in his 1st year of starting a full 16-game season.”

  • Rocky70

    “AR 1st year statistics can allow all PackFans to feel good about the future.”

    It’s no different than when you have a rookie outfielder who in 113 games has 34 HR with nearly 100 RBIs & a .324 BA. You can expect good things in the future & 9 times out of ten you’ll get it. (Ryan Braun)

    You should relish the idea that GB has a QB that not only is on the rise but also has a good chance of still being ‘the man’ in big games. You’ll have to admit our last QB had some trouble showing up for the big games. Someday I’ll post his stats against teams with a winning record and his stats vs teams with a losing record. …..There’s a startling difference. …..Padding your stats against 3-13 teams doesn’t win you very many SBs.

    Sorry. It is what it is.

  • packer_bob

    I do relish the fact that we have a QB that looks like he has chance to be very good, maybe even special.

    I’m just not ready to anoint him as any more than he is at this point, a QB that has had one good season. Pro sports is littered with guys that started well and flamed out or became credible or even good players but didn’t live up to their initial promise.

    I’m not suggesting Rodgers will be one of those, it’s impossible to say at this point. I’m also not saying we should be down on him or the team in general. I am advising a wait and see approach and cautioning against “irrational exuberance” to borrow a term based on one solid but not unprecedented type of season. I’m also saying the way you presented your comparison is arbitrary and fundamentally meaningless.

    I’ll comment on your continuing Favre pogrom when you find the time to post it.

  • Steve Cheez

    Can’t we get back to something remotely resembling an interesting topic? Enough already.

    BF isn’t our QB any more, AR is. Like it or not, that ain’t gonna change. Deal with it and move on, or quit clogging up what is otherwise a decent forum.

    I know we’ve still got 11 days till pads, but c’mon guys. Even the backup ‘backer battle is better that this. It’s almost enough to drive me to af2.

  • Punk

    I like Brohm. Good night! I like Popinga too!

  • packer_bob

    “BF isn’t our QB any more, AR is.” No doubt. Just don’t see why that fact means I have to prematurely venerate the latter and slam the former.

    On a different subject, and one much more in tune with Al’s start, Jordy Nelson was a successful kick returner in college and Blackmon has shown some ability as well. Mason Crosby missed (well one was blocked) a couple of potential game winners last year. Our punting was a disaster. I’m a big believer that special teams are a very underrated component of any team, so I pray we see a big turn around in that department this year and am cautiously optimistic that we have the pieces in place to do it.

  • Punk

    Your right p_b, and a note to Collins to ponder the next 11 days. Ringo, Lofton, Whale, Rivera, Walker, Sharper, and Favre; all pretty good players too, but nobody is indispensable.

  • packer_bob

    Class, Rocky, pure class.

    “You can pick any QB you like (including BF) & AR has better stats in his 1st year of starting a full 16-game season.”

    Kurt Warner
    2nd season in league, 0 starts prior
    13-3, 41TD/13Int, 1 Rushing TD, 109.2 rating, wins SB. This was the first of 3 straight stellar seasons, after which he descended into mediocrity before resurrecting himself in Arizona.

    Daunte Culpepper, 2nd season in league, 0 prior starts, 23 years old.
    11-5, 33TD/16INT, 3937 yards, 98 rating, Pro Bowl.

    Jeff Garcia, 2nd season in league, 10 prior starts, 1st full season as starter:
    6-10, 4278 yards, 31TD/10INT, 97.6 rating, 4 rushing TD’s, Pro Bowl.

    Jim “Don’t call me Chris” Everett, 3rd season in league, 25 years old:
    10-6, 3964 yards, 31TD/18INT, 89.2 rating. 1st of 2 pretty good seasons in a row before a string of solid, journeyman like seasons. Not saying these stats are better than Rodgers, but they’re pretty damn close.

    So do we have a Marino/Young or a Culpepper/Everett? I’d settle for a Garcia/Warner.
    The point is we don’t know.

  • Roy Jamison

    yes return with me to yesteryear again for a snapshot of another forgotten hero qb of the Green and Gold…that would be David Whitehurst of Furman. He guided the Pack in 1978 to a tie with the Vikes with a 8-7-1 record in the Central. Man, I miss having those Tampa Bay Bucs in our Midwest Division. I think I’ll call Roger Goodall and ask him to revert back to the old setup.
    NFC Central
    Minnesota Vikings 8 7 1 .531 294 306 -12
    Green Bay Packers 8 7 1 .531 249 269 -20
    Detroit Lions 7 9 0 .438 290 300 -10
    Chicago Bears 7 9 0 .438 253 274 -21
    Tampa Bay Buccaneers 5 11 0 .313 241 259 -18
    Can’t believe how many superstar qbs we had before ol’ what’s his name.

  • packer_bob

    Jesus, the early to late 70′s were really a wasteland when it came to QB’s in GB, huh?

  • iccyfan

    Roy Jamison Says: “and how ’bout those glory years with the guy we gave up a couple of second round picks for…Jim Del Gaizo…that was sensational football.”

    Hey Roy – You’ve brought up Tagge & Del Gaizo, two of the three QB’s who started for the Packers in 1973, but you’ve left out Scott Hunter! I was pretty young, but I thought Hunter was the chosen one given he came out of Alabama and was to replace Starr.

    Hunter was actually OK in ’71 & ’72 and looked like he might work out. Then they drafted Tagge #1 and he bombed, leading to the horrible John Hadl acquisition. Those were truly the dark times to be a Packer fan…

  • Rocky70

    A great read for anyone on the past year or so in PackerLand.

    http://www.journaltimes.com/articles/2009/07/20/local_sports/doc4a65274014c63102456575.txt

    Love the lines:

    ………..I recall listening to a Packers call-in show last September when the Favre soap opera was at its zenith. After one woman called to say, “Thompson has to go for what he did to Brett!,” the radio host patiently explained that Thompson made a reasonable business decision based on Favre’s advancing age and his heightening flair for the annual offseason dramatics.

    And what was this women’s response? “Well, you just don’t run Mickey Mouse out of Disneyland!”……………..

  • Roy Jamison

    Wow Iccy, how could I forget the incredible Scott Hunter??? What a marvelous qb he was. Now 1971 was not too great but with the addition of Mac Lane 1972 turned into a nice 10-4 year. Yup, Scotty was a very talented qb when it came to handing the ball to a running back. He had difficult decisions to make, should I give it to Brockington or Lane? Off tackle or sweep? And one of my favorite Packers, Gale Gillingham, possibly the greatest guard the Packers ever had. I see Willie Buchanon was a young buck on that squad too, so they had a nice mix of talent. Yup, Iccy be proud that you saw Scotty Hunter, the most talented hand off qb in Packer history.

  • packer_bob

    That’s great Rocky. The article quotes some anonymous woman caller from a talk show. You ever listen to radio sports call in shows? Usually not all of the callers are ex-presidents of the Yale debate team.

    Way to knock down another straw man!

  • Rocky70

    @ PB

    I didn’t write the article. It was a pretty good analysis of where GB is heading into season 2009.

    It also had a pretty positive outlook for the Pack going into 2009. ….Any solid PackFan would, IMO, appreciate any article painting a positive picture.

    “With the personnel Thompson has acquired coupled with an easier schedule, I just can’t see these Packers not being in a mix with the elite this December.”

    Go Pack !!

  • Roy Jamison

    And of course I now am stuck in 1972. How ridiculous it would be to expend a number two pick on a kicker. Unless that kicker is Chester Marcol drafted by the Green Bay Packers in the 2nd round (34th overall) of the 1972 Draft.
    Chester Marcol may best be known for his game winning touchdown against the Chicago Bears in 1980. In the first week of the 1980 NFL season the Packers were tied with the Bears 6-6 in overtime. A 32-yard pass from Lynn Dickey to James Lofton helped set up a 34-yard attempt to win the game for the Packers. Marcol’s kick was blocked and came straight back to his facemask. He caught the ball and ran around the startled Bears in what appeared to be sheer fright. Marcol was able to run 25 yards into the end-zone to give the Packers a 12-6 victory
    Marcol is now a resident of the Upper Peninsula community of Dollar Bay, Michigan. He has a wife and three children.[3] He suffers from health problems such as hepatitis C and a heart condition and lives off a fixed income.

  • Rocky70

    My favorite GB QB of the past.
    Frank Patrick – all 6’7″ inches of him.
    Was drafted in the 10th round & played 3 years as a Packer from 1970-72.
    Finished his career with 0 TD passes & 2 INTs for 107 yards. QB rating of 14.2.

    I remember him for always stumbling when he took his drop to throw a pass. He would trip over his own feet. That’s what you get for trying to convert a TE into a QB.

  • Roy Jamison

    Yeah Frank Patrick was the biggest Packer qb of all time. Not the most nimble. That qb rating is indeed spectacular. I haven’t mentioned the two Bear castoffs that did some qb work in Green Bay. I’ll do that on another day.
    For now accessing the GB Press Gazelle, I found this is Pete’s chat today. It’s good stuff because it involves something I have preached before: better field position in 2009. By that I mean better punts, better returns, and fewer penalties. I didn’t realize how good the Packers were in that latter category.

    Hi Pete, thanks for chatting! Do you know if the Packers are doing something about limiting offensive penalties this season? Are they banking on keeping the same 5 guys at O-line will solve the problem, or are they maybe trying to tell Tony Moll to stop holding? The Packers had almost 1000 yards penalties on offense in 08, and still ended 5th in scored points. Imagine what that could have been with only 500 yards ?

    1:53 Pete Dougherty: Interesting question. Just took a quick glance at the league stats, and if I saw it right their 988 penalty yards was most in the NFL. From what I can tell that’s totl penalty yardage, not just on offense though. To reduce it to 500 would have been best in the league, so that’s a huge jump. But even knocking it down to the 650-yard range would have helped quite a bit. Not sure if the offensive line deserves the lion’s share of the blame though, I don’t have any comparative stats on offensive-line penalties around the league.

  • packer_bob

    Rocky,

    “It also had a pretty positive outlook for the Pack going into 2009. ….Any solid PackFan would, IMO, appreciate any article painting a positive picture.”

    Funny, you didn’t mention anything about that in your original post, just the part about the wise announcer having to “patiently explain” the intelligence of TT to the dimwitted caller. Let’s face it Rocky, you rarely post a link to anything that doesn’t slam BF. You’re way more concerned with Brett failing than the Packers succeeding.

  • packer_bob

    Roy,

    Wasn’t Chester Marcol somewhat of a party animal?

  • Rocky70

    Sorry PB

    I have a tendency to limit the length of my posts so as to not ‘bore’ everyone who may read them………….With practice, even you could do it.

    If I could find something that doesn’t slam BF, believe me, I’d post it…..Good luck finding a recent article that puts a positive spin on anything BF. I wish you would quit blaming me for the Favre Fiasco…….I’m starting to feel abit guilty…… Wait….. No……….Nevermind…….It’s just a little heartburn. LOL.

  • packer_bob

    Hey, if you find it boring, skip it. I think in nuances, not cut and dried sound bites.

    “TT, good–Favre, bad—ugh, ugh” Really brilliant.

    Most Packer fans I know respect Favre for his contributions to the franchise and could give a shit less what he does now. You obsessively post about the man and present everything about him in the worst possible light. Own it.

  • packer_bob

    Oh and by the way:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=4143461

    If that isn’t recent enough for you, I saw Clayton and Chris Carter both pick the Vikings to win the North with Favre at the helm just yesterday on NFL live.

    http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_12537313

    06/06/2009 recent enough for you?

    http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_12537313

    Hey, isn’t this guy one of the leaders of the Vikings of offense? Must be a chump!

    That took about 5 minutes, just a little less time than it took me to blow you up on this: “You can pick any QB you like (including BF) & AR has better stats in his 1st year of starting a full 16-game season.”

  • packer_bob

    Oops, that third link was supposed to be this:

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/175515-adrian-peterson-speaks-out-on-brett-favre-situation

    Hey, isn’t this guy one of the leaders of the Vikings of offense? Must be a chump!

  • Punk

    I’m confused, again. Quinn Johnson is reportedly the 2nd coming of Henderson and has had great reviews on this post. Then I read on the Packer web site that he had played in 40 games, had 15 starts, 16 carries, 34 yds, but 5 tds, and only 5 catches. Those don’t, by themselves, seem like very impressive stats, so why all the hoopla? Unless he’s going to lead Grant thru every hole wouldn’t a TE/HB offer more options?

  • Rocky70

    Q. Johnson was pretty much rated the top FB in the draft. 5th round pick?? Shows how the FB has become less & less important not only at the college level but even more so at the NFL level. –He still is considered a ‘lights out’ blocker. We’ll see.

  • Rocky70

    Pre-Draft on Johnson:

    Quinn Johnson, FB, 6-1, 250, Louisiana State…The addition of Johnson gives the Packers a competitive mix at fullback, where incumbents Korey Hall and John Kuhn are no slouches. Like Hall, Johnson is a converted linebacker who thrives on contact and punishing defenders — he paved the way for 11 touchdowns by LSU ball carriers last season. Johnson had few touches of the football but has potential to develop into a short-yardage back.

  • Punk

    I would think, maybe, a potential “terror” on the specials? The more I see of all these LBs, converted LBs, and DBs on our roster I think the Special Teams are going to be the highlight this year.

  • Rocky70

    Early Release of BF’s 2009 Contract With the Vikes

    $5 million base
    $1 million for showing up for practice
    $1 million for talking with his teammates in the locker room
    $1 million for achieving a QB rating above 70 — (His playoff rating since the Super Bowl loss to Denver)
    $1 million for playing outdoors on 12/28 at Chicago.
    $2 million for leaving & never returning after the season.

  • Rocky70

    Per PB:
    “Most Packer fans I know respect Favre for his contributions to the franchise and could give a shit less what he does now.”

    PB, you need to get out more see what the rest of PackerNation thinks.

    Try this. It’s now & it’s your typical PackFan.

    http://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/who-else-was-favre-interested-in#comments

  • Punk

    I don’t post on other sites, and rarely read them. However, there are a couple referred to here so I took a peek. I now know why the disenchanted TT folks post here; they get respect from Al. I’m amazed at the intolerance shown on the other sites, albeit w/o the four letter words. The all-out TT supporters and the real BF haters are there with no shame. I sure prefer our group, and our “tame” arguements.

  • packer_bob

    Rocky,

    Way to cherry pick one line again! Don’t respond to the fact that I blew up two of your ridiculous assertions, change the subject to a debate about what PackerNation thinks.

    I’m not clicking anymore of your links, they’re either the same old one sided BS you always seem to dredge up or it’s some cartoon character farting, which is about right for your level.

    The idea that you speak for or are in tune with the views of “PackerNation” (as if the viewpoint is monolithic in the first place) is so patently idiotic it defies description, so I won’t bother trying to reply to it. Suffice to say there are diverse points of view on the matter on all the boards I’ve been on in. I could look up and post many examples but I have better things to do today and am getting bored with proving you wrong all the time.

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