Early concerns at punter, kicker, and QB

Only a few days into camp two areas of concern have quickly arisen. The two punters the Packers have in camp are a joke, neither is even close to NFL material. Who would have thought it was so hard to find a punter? The situation at backup QB is almost as bad. If Aaron Rodgers gets hurt the Packers can mail in any games he misses because they can’t win with Matt Flynn or Brian Brohm at quarterback. These are two areas that could doom the Packers in 2009.

The Packers can solve the backup QB problem real easily by signing Mike Vick. I mean, how often can you find a player of his caliber willing to sign cheap and be comfortable being a backup? Vick paid his dues and I believe he was taken advantage of by his hoodlum friends. I know he could have dumped them when he hit the big time, but like most of us lowlifes, friends are friends and you do what you can for them. Granted, I doubt I would have financed a dog fighting ring if I was rich, but then again I might do something even worse than that. Who knows? The good thing I guess is I’ll never have to make a decision like that because I will never be rich. The point is, Vick deserves a chance to work and the Packers can use him more than any team in the NFL. I doubt the Packers will do it because of the public outcry, but in this case the fans are hurting the team. Fans should be begging for Vick. You can argue if you want but in the end winning games means a lot more to me than the image the Packer portray. Winning hides everything. Just ask Manny Ramirez

The punting dilemma is a much harder fix. It still blows my mind that we cut Jon Ryan. That is hands down the dumbest move Ted Thompson has ever made. Much like Ron Wolf did when he let Craig Hentrich leave as a free agent, Thompson underestimated the value of a good punter. Throw in the fact that kicker Mason Crosby is missing everything in sight the Packer’ kicking game is in shambles, which means they need to bring a new punter for sure and I think a kicker too to provide some competition for Crosby. The problem is that will take up roster spots in other positions that shouldn’t have to be shorted. What a mess this has become in such a short time. It seemed like Crosby was headed for big things but then he had a average year at best last year when he single-handedly cost the Packers two wins. If there is one area that could cost the Packers big time in 2009 it is the kicking game.

It will be interesting to see how bad it gets at those positions before Thompson makes a move. All I know is I want Vick. The Packers need something to attract some attention to an otherwise boring training camp. Really though, Vick is the answer at backup QB, it would be stupid not to bring him in. I know nothing about the punters available, but an open tryout could probably find a better one than the two the Packers have. Same thing at kicker. No matter what, all three aforementioned areas must improve if the Packers are going to take the next step

This entry was posted on Tuesday, August 4th, 2009 at 10:21 pm and is filed under Al Davis. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

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  • MacCheez

    Can Vick punt?

  • Punk

    Well, the Vick thing will be Favre all over again. He is 29 and would be stop-gap at best and won’t even play if Rodgers goes as we all hope he will. OK, Rodgers goes down and then what? Do you put in an “athlete” who isn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer to begin with, hasn’t worked with or had timing with any of the Fab5(6), doesn’t know the playbook, can’t hit the broad side of a barn either, just to get a “wildcat” play or two? I’m sure putting him in a game would sure confuse the opposing D. The alternative is to put in Flynn/Brohm with another learning curve year behind them, who know the play being sent in, have worked with the twos if not much with the ones, and can at least play within the system. Vick coming in would also delay any progress w/ Brohm/Flynn because of cutback on reps in practice and taking away a roster spot for another potential. All for what, one year from a guy who completes his rehab and moves on? Does anybody think Vick would be here for more than one year or would ever belong to that exclusive club of being a Green Bay Packer football player. I’m not against giving him his shot back in the NFL but I don’t think he is even close to being a good fit in our O.

  • Punk

    You know, guys, the more I think about the Vick possibility, the more convinced I am that TT would no more consider hiring him then he would me. This GB thing is just the press, again, doing they’re collective lemming act with absolutely no foundation for a story other than Thompson not saying no.

  • iccyfan

    When I think about Vick, I kinda laugh that he’s a “throwback” player. I’d have to look this up, but I’m pretty certain QB Cecil Isbell led the Packers in rushing one year with a passing completion % of less than 50%; I also think RB Tony Canadeo led the Packers in passing yards during a season in the 1940′s.

    I really don’t think TT meant anything with his response and this has been completely overblown by the press, but I’m intrigued by the idea of Michael Vick as a backup RB to Ryan Grant. I don’t know if he’d even be receptive to such an idea, but he sure has the pure running skills part down.

  • monkeon

    He could be punt returner, kick returner, backup WR, backup QB, backup RB, can he hit? backup LB!

    Look at the value of just one guy !

  • packer_bob

    How long has it been since Vick has even played a down again? Not saying he wouldn’t be worth a look (only if you can get him super cheap) but to say he is the answer at backup goes way too far.

    Could he be an interesting addition in a wildcat formation or play in a “slash” type of way? Yeah, I guess so. But he does bring a certain amount of baggage to the organization, let’s not minimize that. More importantly, I doubt he fits in with our offense very well and personally felt he was always completely overrated.

    I guess if we can get him cheap with the idea of using his athleticism here or there and having him as an option to help us if Rodgers misses or gets knocked out of a game or two, I could get behind giving him a look. We should also be prepared to cut him at the drop of a hat. Overall, the prospect of signing Vick doesn’t excite me that much.

  • packer_bob

    Al,

    Yeah, the reports on the kicking coming out of camp have been ugly at best. You wouldn’t think it would be that hard to find a punter but you’re dead on the money about Ryan, especially when you jogged my memory about trying to replace Hentrich.

    Crosby has an entire training camp to get his shit together, so this concerns me less. He at least has shown he can do the job. Let’s just hope it’s an early camp slump that gets straightened out pretty quickly. If it continues for very long, you’re right, they need to get someone else in camp for competition.

  • Punk

    Hey, monkeon, where has Vick returned punts, returned kicks, played WR, played LB, or been a backup anywhere? p_b, have you considered what the OL does when Vick is back there free-lancing when all pre they’ve been trying to perfect the drive blocks for Grant & Co.? I see a lot of penalties.

  • matt

    Flynn is better than Vick. The Packers don’t need Vick.

    Kapinos should be adequate if he can stop shanking punts.

  • packer_bob

    Just read a pretty good write up about how much Flynn looks like an NFL QB, guess I understand what Matt Hayton was talking about now.

    Punk,
    Good point, Lord knows we had enough penalties last year trying to do the basics.

    Sounds like Collins has looked good in training camp so far, anybody think we should re- work his contract yet? I’ll give him credit for showing up and playing his best at the very least.

  • Roy Jamison

    I’m holding to my statement of not commenting on the present GM of the Pack until September when the rubber hits the road. Al, you are correct in what you say. I found a couple of things interesting in the short Chris Mortenson report on the Packer training camp on Mike & Mike this am. One, there is a perception that Desmond Bishop, a sixth round pick, may be better than A.J. Hawk. That is an eye opener. Second, Mort says the Pack have no interest in Michael Vick, even if they don’t say that publicly. They are very satisfied with the “progress” of their young backups. We’ll see how much progress soon. Mort said he was impressed by the aggressiveness and intensity he saw on the defense.

  • Punk

    Yeah, p_b, looks like I over reacted on the Collins thing. I chuckle to myself everytime I think of an O-lineman looking around to see where the hell he(Vick) is going and getting either knocked on his ass or holding. Lets face it running QBs never win. Vick is probably as talented as there is at it, but it doesn’t work for Vince Young, nor did it for Bobby Douglass. Maybe the best was Steve Young, but hes not really considered a running QB. Tark did a lot of running around, but most of it was in circles just to tease our DL. I don’t think you can serve two masters (bail or sit), got to have dicipline and in that Vick was always lacking.

  • Roy Jamison
  • Monty Montana

    The following players are thugs in my book and have lost the privilege to play in the National Football League because of their gangsta mentality:

    Michael Vick
    Donte Stallworth
    Plaxico Burress
    Adam Jones
    Marshall Lynch

    They should be banned from ever playing in the NFL again. I would rather lose games with less talented players than to continue to let players like these rule the NFL and gain millions of dollars for their home boys and gangster life styles. This lifestyle has no place in professional sports period.

    As for the backup QB problem, Matt Flynn is the future of the Packers. He has leadership, moxy and is from a southern school. Research your Packer History, the last two successful Packer QB’s both came from the deep south. As for the kicking game, I agree with the guy that said Thompson was a moron for listening to Mike Stock last year and cutting Jon Ryan. Good luck finding a replacement. As for Cosby, bring in another leg to compete with him. I still hold to my prediction that Fat Mike will blow it this year and Capers will be our head coach next year. Enjoy the 2009 season, a strike is looming on the horizon.

  • packer_bob

    Punk,

    I considered guys like Young or Elway QB’s that could run rather than “running QB’s”.
    If you can pass with accuracy and run if you have to, great. Running Qb’s to me are guys that are dangerous with their feet first and aren’t consistent or accurate passers, and I agree that those guys usually don’t get very far.

    Roy, thanks for the link. Some of the stuff I’ve read has been positive about Bishop, but about Hawk and Kampman too. Specifically I read something from a Packer writer about Hawk being everywhere in one practice and Kampman living in the backfield in last night’s practice. I would like to see more out of Hawk in the big play/turnover arena, he hasn’t done enough justify the 5th overall pick, imo.

    The downside is what does the success of the D say about our running game and O-line progress. Sounds like Rodgers has thrown his share of picks thus far too, but as with Crosby, there is a whole TC/Pre-season to work these things out.

  • monkeon

    Vick hasn’t done those things..but if we signed him he’d be our bitch.

  • Pack4life

    I have always thought Bishop the best ILB on the Roster. In the Bates/Sanders scheme speed is a premium and he didnt fit. All the reports say Bishop, Chillar and Hawk are doing well. I say cut Poppinga and give that money to Collins. Bishop is the only LB on our roster who can really crush someone. I would love him to get a tape measure shot on Adrian Peterson.

  • Rocky70

    Vick’s career completion percentage is 53.8.
    A WC offense is based on 60% plus or it doesn’t work.
    Both Brohm & Flynn have been in the system now for a year. GB’s QB situation is theoretically better now than 2008…. Pretty hard to draw conclusions about anyone before any pre-season action.

    The pre-season is when kickers get their act together. Crosby has a better leg than most NFL kickers. He’ll be around for many years.
    Punting is still a big ?, IMO.

    Open tryouts ??? You must be joking. Maybe in HS but the NFL…..
    “Attracting Attention” to your TC is the last thing an NFL team wants.

  • matt

    Pack4life,

    I say sit Hawk and start Bishop.

  • Rocky70

    Because it may be awhile before Barnett is at 100%, if ever, you may very well see Hawk & Bishop as starters.

    Capers is a no-nonsense type DC. He has no allegiance to any roster carry-overs from previous years. ….Both TT & MM have entrusted Capers with turning the Pack’s D into one of the best in the NFL….. They have to listen to him for their own survival…. I’m looking for a few surprise starters on the D in 2009.

  • Roy Jamison

    Here’s an interesting piece on the D coordinators. Written before Jim Johnson’s death, it has a little bit about all the DCs. Rating DCs is like throwing darts, but I’d rate Capers a little higher than what he is here.
    http://www.nfldraftbible.com/All-Access-Football/2009_defensive_coordinator_rankings.html

  • Matt Hayton

    Going to training camp Thursday night with my brother…gotta see these boys live in person, at this poiint, before I comment any further on the kicking game and the back-up QB…I really liked what I saw of Flynn last year, but it could’ve just been a flash in the pan…

    I don’t like the Vick idea, Favre was a distraction last year, Vick would be a similar distraction, go and get Gus Ferotte before you get Vick…

  • Roy Jamison

    Matt,
    Here’s another idea to chew on. The Cleveland Browns have 3 guys who could possibly start and you know there’s going to be an odd man out. Derek Anderson, Brady Quinn, and Brett Ratliff. Do you think any of these guys might be better than our backup?

  • Punk

    What did I miss that most of you are so down on Flynn/Brohm? Seems to me I remember a lot of crap about Rodgers given his low place in the 1st rnd too. Most of what I’ve heard is only that Brohm was nowhere ready for the intricacies of the Pro game and Flynn for some reason was better. Sobeit, they all(3) have decent size, decent arm strength, and some smarts. Rodgers way above, because of 3yrs on the bench. Having said that, Garcia would fit the bill if Brohm sucks in camp. You also have to remember that these guys don’t get many, if any, reps w/ the ones. I should think that would make a difference in the #s.

  • http://Orlando Mark

    Al, I agree with you about Vick. I saw Flynn vs Atl last year and he was pathetic. If he really improves he might be as good as Orton someday but we need someone now. Hopefully next year Brohm or someone else will step up. But if we want to compete this year let’s get a veteran. Players with talent at any position(safety) are hard to find and shouldn’t be thrown away, even punters. Ryan had talent and we should have helped him develop it.

  • Rocky70

    @ Punk

    Ref QBs. —– Most fans fear the unknown. It is true that both Brohm & Flynn are unknown or untested. Nevermind that they’re both entering only their 2nd year in the NFL & that a fan never really knows what a young QB can do. (ie…Cassell, Ryan, Flacco) ….This is where the fan pretty much has to rely on your HC knowing the best course of action….. I trust MM….. He was right last year.

  • Roy Jamison

    I’m thinkin’ that guys like Colquitt, whose brother kicks for KC and whose dad kicked for Pittsburg in the 70s, are going to be in line for the GB job. Why we didn’t sign a guy like this back in April…who knows? Did we really think our punters were that good?

    04/28/09 – On Monday, the Broncos announced the addition of 15 undrafted free agents. Terms of the deals were not disclosed. Colquitt is a familiar name at Tennessee — he’s the fourth Colquitt to play for the Vols — and in the NFL — his brother Dustin punts for the Kansas City Chiefs. Many scouts believe Britton has the size, leg strength and refined technique to make a successful transition to the NFL. After all, he was at one point in his career a consensus first-team All-SEC punter — he had only one kick blocked in four years at UT. – DenverBroncos.com

  • JeffN

    Not sure why people think that Vick is all that good (my guess is he comes back washed up). Not sure why people think Flynn won’t be any good this season. I would prefer not to bring the circus to town with Vick for a guy who maybe would be good. I would rather go with the young guy at back up (Flynn or Brohm if he can prove himself) who has more upside.

    I wouldn’t drive yourself crazy about the punting and kicking situations yet. Crosby has time to get out of his slump besides this is the best time of year for a kicker to be in a slump. We know he can kick. When rostor cuts come later in the preseason there will be a few good punters out there. Sometimes that’s just how things have to work out.

    Al, I completely disagree that this has been a boring training camp. How about that defense?!

  • Pack4life

    The Bears are practicing the Wildcat formation with Devin Hester and Matt Forte. They have no wide receivers and NFL Network says Vick is going to sign with a team east of the Mississippi I think the Bears are the most obvious place. I dont know how Flynn is vs Vick but I know Brohm is terrible. I live in Big East Country where Brohm was always touted as the next big thing. Brohm is using a glove in August to grip a football??????? He can forget it in December. Signing Vick keeps him from the Bears and you wont find a better 3rd string Qb.

  • Roy Jamison

    My question was are Flynn or Brohm as good as Anderson, Quinn or Ratliff?

  • Matt Hayton

    Roy-
    last time I checked most NFL teams carry 3 QBs, we only carried 2 a while back, but obviously #4′s durability was a luxury there…so, I highly doubt the Browns cut one of those guys..and someone will pay more than tight-wad teddy to get their services in a trade scenario…they won’t be coming to GB.

  • JeffN

    I agree there won’t be any additional QBs coming to Green Bay. They are going to go with the guys we have. Can’t believe the media made such a big deal out of TT’s non answer. I mean the media acts like they don’t know TT very well. He gives non answers to almost everything as he himself joked about at the Packer’s shareholders meeting last week. It is what it is.

  • jonnyfootballhero

    I hope that piece of shit vick never plays another down of professional football again in his life… I don’t care if he paid his dues to society. He had it all… Money, fame, and the adoration of millions, but it wasn’t enough. He financed and participated in a brutal act. What for?? Excitement?? A little more money to add to his bank account?? What a complete loser! I don’t want to hear that he made a mistake. A mistake is throwing into triple coverage. He was being a complete barbarian to mans best friend. It is absolutely sickening. I can’t believe that society is so willing to forgive him. I also dont think that Stallworth should ever get to play again either. I cant understand for anything why these millionares constantly go out, get drunk, and have to drive home?? Hire a fucking limo!! Get a cab!! I am not for second chances when the crimes are that great and it takes so little to avoid commiting them. Rot in hell Vick!

  • iccyfan

    I just finished reading McGinn’s interview with Ted Thompson. I truly feel TT has done a pretty good job of rebuilding this team (almost entirely) without the fans ever having reason to feel we couldn’t be competitive (other than year one). That’s quite an accomplishment! Even so, I hate his answers to some of the more probing questions, such as “how did you feel when it was reported that BF wanted to stick it to you?” (Answer – I’ll keep that to myself). This team is like no other in the NFL, it’s fan-owned and he needs to provide the information the fans desire. I don’t give a rip about Hunter Smith, but there’s no reason Ted can’t explain where the free agent negotiations went awry. I was way to the right on the supporter scale prior to reading this, but his evasiveness has brought me back closer to center. I fear he’s channeling Jack Nicholson from “A Few Good Men”…

  • JeffN

    Iccy, it’s TT’s job to keep things behind the scenes and not make it apparent what he is going to do. He practices this all the time and kind of takes it to an extreme level. I don’t know why he goes so extreme, maybe he wants to make it a habit all the time so he doesn’t slip up during an unexpected encounter or piece of information you find out later is critical. Maybe he is an introvert and just doesn’t like to talk and says things in as few words as possible. The guys is a mystery, I kind of find it entertaining.

  • Rocky70

    Ref TT’s Evasiveness:
    You have to throw in another factor, the media. Unfortunately the media has allowed itself to become an untrusted part of the equation. If the media could just ‘report’ stories instead of ‘creating’ stories, I think anyone who is interviewed would be more forthcoming with their comments. The media loves to twist, embellish & sensationalize just about any comment, even a ‘no comment”. The need by the media to be ‘first’ with a story has led to unsourced articles which has led to mountains of misinformation….. There actually was a day (a long time ago) where you could actually believe what you read. Not so much today.

  • Rocky70

    Interesting tidbit from Pickett on TC:
    _____

    Packers NT Ryan Pickett, on the nature of this year’s training camp: “This is the most physical camp I’ve been through so far, and it’s only been, how many, three days, four days? It’s been physical, man. It’s like coach has us back in the old-school days. It’s helping, though. It’s helping everybody out, I think. We’re enjoying it, but it’s rough.”

  • Punk

    Oooh, not only physical, Rock, but mental too. The other day Harrell was asked about the D switch and he said, “its real hard, like where to put your hand and all” (sic). Do like the edginess though, some guys are really “fighting” for their jobs for a change.

  • Doug R

    Ryan is still available – would TT bring him back and admit a mistake?

  • packer_bob

    McCarthy said it the other day, there wasn’t a single fight in TC last year and we all know what we got, so maybe this is a good omen! I believe TC should be physical, sets the tone for the year to come.

  • Punk

    Agreed p_b, and go one step further and hire refs to walk the sidelines and input on the contact. I know they don’t practice anywhere near game conditions but those penalties are game changing events often. Somewhere along the way the head has to be in the game as much as the body. Tough to change direction when you’ve left the ground.

  • JeffN

    The intensity is up in practice because the new coaching staff on D is setting the tone. Bob Sanders was soft, these new guys are intense.

  • Punk

    Just read where refs are in camp today.

  • packer_bob

    Punk,

    You’re right about the penalties. We were No. 2 in penalty yards in 2007 and No. 1 in 2008. I’ve always considered this to be about coaching and discipline, so let’s hope we can do much better in 2009.

    JeffN,
    Hopefully Kevin Greene can bring the intensity he had as a player to the D. I realize there are stoic, non-emotional coaches who have success in the league (Tony Dungy leaps to mind) but I like to see a little fire on the sidelines from players and coaches.

    Getting back to Al’s original post, sounds like punting was a disaster in the morning practice today. Having the crowd groaning about the shanked punts in practice does not give me confidence for the rest of the season with these guys.

    Read McGinn’s interview with TT where he asked him about our talks with the best FA punter out there (can’t remember his name, he went to the Redskins). He asked why we would miss out on him over a little bit of money, TT pretty much side stepped it. Let’s hope we get this figured out and don’t look back at it as a serious mistake ala cutting Ryan in the first place.

  • packer_bob

    DougR says:

    “Ryan is still available – would TT bring him back and admit a mistake?”

    First off, I didn’t realize this. Secondly, highly unlikely, imo.

  • Rocky70

    Jon Ryan is not even remotely available.

    He’s the only punter on Seattle’s TC roster. The Seahawks didn’t even bring in anyone to push him….. That’s what happens when you average 45.6 per kick in 2008.

  • Rocky70

    PB

    The punter you’re talking about signed with the Redskins…. Hunter Smith….. GB actually offered him a better deal than Washington but Smith only wanted a one-year contract. He wants to be a FA again after the 2009 season. Go figure.

    “The situation in Green Bay was better from a financial standpoint, but it made more sense to come here,” Smith said Friday in Washington.

    All GB wanted was a longer term committment from Smith. (2-3 years) Why rent a punter for one year & then start the search all over again next year. He was ranked 13th last year in punting. A middle of the pack type of guy. …..I still think there’s a bartender somewhere in Philly who would fill the bill for GB in 2009.

  • packer_bob

    Ok, well at least that makes some kind of sense. The way I got it from the interviewer it sounded like we didn’t offer enough money or years. Of course, from TT’s none response it was difficult to tell what the deal was.

    On the other hand, yes it would be better to have someone 2-3 years rather than 1 and then re-negotiate, but having someone decent for this year would be better than a repeat of the Frost caliber kicking from last year.

  • packer_bob

    I see McCarthy just said some complimentary things about Collins after today’s practice, sounds like he’s an active participant in camp and not just going through the motions.

  • Punk

    A Ray Guy comes along every 20 or so years so why not use rent-a-punters? Its not as though they have any value other than catching and then kicking the ball. So, why not just take the best FA available any year and go? Besides I think the snapper is more valuable. With a good snap the ball gets off and what more does the coverage have to know other than what side of the field its supposed to go? Hell, they can even tell that by the looks on the receiving team. A FG guy is a whole different story; thats a real game winner or loser, but a punter? Its the gunners and coverage that makes a punt team, not the kicker.

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