Packers take care of business

The Green Bay Packers went to the “Show Me” state and took care of business yesterday in rather convincing fashion. They took the Rams’ best punch early then poured it on late. The game was never really in doubt even though the team still has some problem areas. The offensive line was only marginally better against the Rams and the run defense gave up another 100-yard day to Steven Jackson. Heading to the House of Horrors in Minneapolis the Packers will need to improve greatly next Monday night in both areas to beat their arch rivals.

Had the Packers went to St. Louis and struggled to win a close game I would have had serious doubts about their chances in Minnehaha. The fact that they were able to put the loss to my team of destiny – the Cincinnati Bengals, behind them and focus on the Rams without looking ahead to the Vikings bodes well in my book. I think the Packers will try to use the same strategy on offense against the Vikings that they did against the Rams, which was to try and exploit a suspect secondary with the vertical passing game. Against the Rams it was like the other Al Davis was calling plays as the Packers went deep often and burned the Rams with big plays. If they can give Aaron Rodgers the time they should be able to do the same Monday night.

Obviously it is hard to look back at the Rams game with what is facing the Packers a week from tonight, so I won’t even bother. The Packers turned their attention to the Vikings walking off the field yesterday, and getting fired up for this game shouldn’t require many pep talks. For the Packers it is all about getting a win and taking over first place in the division, for the Vikings it all about revenge, at least for one player it is. Of course it should be all about revenge for all the Vikings’ players because since taking over as head coach Mike McCarthy has owned the Vikings, going 5-1 against them his first three years with the only loss coming when Mason Crosby missed a game-winner with 20 seconds left last year.

Everything begins and ends with Adrian Peterson and the Vikings’ defensive line and nothing changed with the addition of Brett Favre. In fact Favre is probably the least of the Packers’ worries as they know him better than he knows himself. McCarthy is the only reason Favre is still playing football today as he was able to take the gunslinger out of Favre and get him to play within his declining skills. The problem was those declining skills were grotesquely on display late in the year and especially in the playoffs, hence the move to Rodgers. Favre’s desire for revenge however, does have him playing with an energy that was never on display last in New York but it is an energy the Packers should be counting on when they face him for the first time. We’ve all seen first-hand how Favre plays when the stakes are high and you can bet McCarthy and defensive coordinator Dom Capers are licking their chops.

I expect Capers to pull out all stops, every scheme they worked on in the offseason may come out Monday night. Favre won’t have a clue where the blitz is coming from and the 3-4 has always been a problem for #4. Having Peterson makes things a lot easier for any QB but there will be times that the Packers will have their shot at Favre and it’s going to be fun to watch. If the Packers can contain Peterson and force Favre into passing another 46 times this week the Packers will have them right where they want them.

It will be a fun week, I can’t wait for Favre’s lies during his conference call with local reporters this week, that will be Comedy Central material right next to his contrived first retirement presser. McCarthy was upfront about the situation today admitting this game is lot bigger than any normal regular season game. Give him credit for not using the “it is just another game” cliche. Stay tuned. It’s Super Bowl week in the fall, and TV ratings will probably reflect that next Monday. I like our chances. In fact, I love them.

NFL futures

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  • packer_bob

    Al, today you say the game was never really in doubt.

    Yesterday, it was this. Ring any bells? :

    2:07 PM: It is officially time to panic. The Packers have come apart at the seams. The Rams will be leading soon and if then the game is over. I can’t believe what I’m seeing.

    2:15 PM: The Packers are ripe for the picking today. This is going from bad to worse. Updated prediction – Rams 34, Packers 30.

    Same guy?

  • Rocky70

    Al,

    ” McCarthy is the only reason Favre is still playing football today as he was able to take the gunslinger out of Favre and get him to play within his declining skills. ”

    A pretty bold statement Al but I think you are close to correct. …..

    ” I can’t wait for Favre’s lies during his conference call with local reporters this week. ”

    Another bold statement. Personally, I can’t tell when BF is fibbing. … He’s awfully good at it.

    On another note: …. Al, aren’t you aware that no one wants to talk about BF. …. Only me. (per PB)

  • packer_bob

    Your fourth paragraph is hysterical! Favre is only still in the league because of McCarthy?
    Favre’s diminishing skills in the playoffs? You mean like in the Seattle game? Nothing’s changed with the addition of BF? They have a QB that can actually complete a pass now, and I’m not talking about just the game winner yesterday, I’m talking about ones like the first TD and several of the more basic throws that basically was 50/50 with Tavaris Jackson.

    You think they would have won that game yesterday with TJ? I mean, I know you hate Favre, whatever, but let’s not ignore reality.

    You’re still right about this though, if they can stop the run (big if in my mind at this point) and force a lot of throws, we will get some picks. This game to me is about stopping AP and being able to protect AR enough to give him time to expose their secondary.

  • packer_bob

    That’s not what I said Rocky. I said nobody gave a shit about your bullshit question. And most of us seemed to be concerned with the win, whether BF throws 0, 3 or 10 picks.

  • packer_bob

    You’re also right about our D getting some shots at Favre, Al. He took a pretty good beating yesterday, see no reason we shouldn’t be able to do the same.

  • Stan

    The game will come down to whether we can stop the run and run the ball. I don’t like our chances. On another note, given Favre’s late game heroics yesterday and not to mention his stats so far this year, your post is ridiculous. Don’t let your emotions cloud your judgment.

  • Rocky70

    There is no doubt that the Pack’s focus has to be on Peterson…. If AP can be minimized & GB takes an early lead, this will put the onus on BF to win the game……. Big games & BF don’t go well together…. This is a big game….

    Great blog Al. …. Telling it like it is….. A little reality check coming from a solid PackFan. ….

    By the way, my option & prediction is “B” for blow-out….. How sweet it will be.

  • packer_bob

    Where did McCarthy say this was bigger than normal game? I read his transcript, must have missed that one. I’ll re-read it.

    I agree with the gist of your post, Al. If we can solidify just a few things, I think their are plenty of things we can take advantage of. I wouldn’t say I “love” our chances, this is no walk in the park and I don’t think we’re the favorites in this game.

    We’re not a huge dog though either. I felt the Niners had a good chance to go into the dome and get a win and think we do too. Should definately be an electric night and fun to watch.

  • packer_bob

    I re-read McCarthy’s press conference transcript and still don’t see where he says anything about this being a bigger than normal game. He specifically said playing the Vikings is always a big game, advised his players to stay out of the hype and get prepared for the game, and said we definitely want to win this game. Other than the number of Favre related questions, not sure how this is any different than the usual stuff before a showdown for a share of the division lead.

    Think you mischaracterized McCarthy’s comments a little there, Al.

  • AATP

    So it’s clear to me after reading all the posts on this and the last forum that you guys aren’t all cheering for the same time right? Jeez… Come on guys… This is a Packer forum not a pissing contest… well, it shouldn’t be a pissing contest but apparently has turned into that… everyone calling everyone else out on this, that and one other thing… Man, never imagined us Packer fans could act or respond in such a way – respect the players that have left for what they have done for us but respect and liking them while they play on another team are two completely different things. I want all those guys that left the Packers to play for other teams to lose obviously, sure I hope they do well individually but I hope the teams fail, flop and crap out cause it helps the Packers. If their play is not benefiting the Packers then I’m not interested in how well or how bad they do – ultimately want them to lose. That’s that… I expect everyone else on this forum feels the same way. Then again, maybe not.

  • Mark Troy

    Who’s writing these blogs? – Sybil?

  • AATP

    LMAO :) I think so…

  • Jeff

    Brad Childress has never beat the Packers 2 games in a row and he is one coach who McCarthy seems to have the number of.
    The 49ers were able to take advantage of the fact that the Vikings can not defend the pass and should have won the game , the Packers have much more talent than the 49ers.
    Keys to the game for Packers,
    1,No turnovers,.
    2,commit to Ryan Grant and the run , this will allow play action passing and that will exploit all of the Vikings’ weaknesses on pass defense.
    3,Do not allow the big run by Peterson.
    4. win the special teams battle.
    5, keep the history of Favre having trouble against the 3-4 defense going.

  • packer_bob

    I can’t speak for everyone AATP, but for myself I want the Pack to win every week. This week is no different. If we can win by knocking Favre around and forcing picks, great. If we can win by Ryan Grant finally showing up and running for 150 yards and 3 TD’s, great. If Favre throws 5 TDs and Rodgers throws 0 but we still get the win because of 2 special teams TD’s and 3 AP fumbles, great.

    I don’t care how we get it, we just need the win. Some people I think would be happy to see Favre get knocked around or out of the game, and not care if we win or lose. They make this game about Favre and would like to see him humiliated, just for the sake of that. This game isn’t about Favre, it’s not a referendum on Favre, it doesn’t mean anything going back to over a year ago. It’s about us getting a big win on the road in a hostile environment and a share of the division lead, as opposed to be being two games back early and in danger of letting this season slip away early. It’s as simple as that.

  • packer_bob

    “Who’s writing these blogs? – Sybil?”

    Funny, FUNNY, stuff right there! Exactly what I was wondering.

  • AATP

    I completely agree pb… I’d love to see him get knocked around cause pressure causes him to force throws – by god I think we’re all familiar enough with Favre that any one of us on this forum would know exactly what to do to get him rattled a little and make him carry the weight all by himself. He’s not always good at that and with our strong secondary could have a big day. I think it’s about banging Favre around enough for him to press – I doubt he can be “humiliated” as he’s done this enough that win or lose he’ll move on to the next week like everyone else. I think the media will make a bigger deal out of it then the players will when the game comes to a close.

  • packer_bob

    Pressure rattles any QB. Rodgers didn’t look very sharp in the first 2 games, 10 sacks and several more hits and pressures will do that to the best of them. Brady didn’t look so good last week getting chased around by the Jets nor in the SB two years ago when the Giants got to him. It’s that way for any of them.

    What I’m saying is, the game isn’t about Favre, it’s about winning and would be even if Favre weren’t on the team. It’s all going to start with containing AP, protecting AR, and not getting burnt on special teams. I would add handling the noise and atmoshpere in the Dome, and not having like 10 false start penalties.

  • Jack in Columbus

    This is an important game, but it will not make or break the Packers’ season. 11-5 will still probably win our division. I agree with MM; this should be a “fun” game. But let’s all hope the same Brent Faver — who used to show up for BIG Packers games over the years (Minnesota multiple times, Dallas mutiple times, St. Louis NFC Championship, Philadelphia 3rd and 26, Atlanta home playoff loss, NY Giants NFC Championship, etc.) — is the guy wearing the purple hat and blouse next Monday night in the MetroTomb.

  • Rocky70

    @ AATP

    “… well, it shouldn’t be a pissing contest but apparently has turned into that… everyone calling everyone else out on this, that and one other thing… Man, never imagined us Packer fans could act or respond in such a way ”

    Did you just wake up after a year of sleep or something…… The divide that exists between PackFans & the apologists has existed since BF crashed TC in 2008…. This blog is actually one of the tamest I’ve seen…. Visit some minimally moderated forums & blogs then you’ll see some viciousness. ……

    I don’t believe the idea is for all to agree on all the issues anyway…. We’re just fans….It really doesn’t make a rat’s ass difference what we think….. We have zero impact on anything GB is up to.

    ( i.e.) ….You don’t like 3 FBs on the roster ?……. So what. —- No one here is going to change it.

  • Rocky70

    Per PB:

    ” If Favre throws 5 TDs and Rodgers throws 0 but we still get the win because of 2 special teams TD’s and 3 AP fumbles, great. ”

    Are you agreeable to this scenario as well ?

    AR throws 5 TDs and Favre throws 0 but we still get the win even though Harvin scores two special team’s TDs & GB loses 3 fumbles.

    This should work also, right ??

  • packer_bob

    Yes, Rocky, the whole point is that it doesn’t matter who does what stat wise, I just want the win.

  • http://Orlando Mark

    Right Rocky, that works just as good and is more likely if we can contain AP and give #12 time.

  • Pete H

    AATP…didn’t you essentially call people out on your post? You are still telling people how they “should” be fans. I don’t think anyone here has patented fandom. I think this game is all about having a lead. As much as is made about his comeback skills, he is far better at playing with a lead then having to go into gunslinger mode. There is no doubt that he will be trying to make a statement, whether Peterson is running well or not. The Pack will get their chances defensively. They have to take those opportunities. I hate to say it, but I think its all truly going to come down to the two QBs. I just don’t see Grant running on that team, and they have a relatively weak secondary. Rodgers will have to shoulder the load. MM also has to go for the throat when he gets the chance

  • http://Orlando Mark

    Pete H, Jeff had a good post at the end of the last thread that Grant has done good running against the Vikes. Also #4 has been knocked around like a piñata this year, their pass blocking is almost as bad as ours. If we can slow AP that knucklehead Chilly might go away from the run. Even though it’s proven AP does better in the second half when defenses are tired. A couple of picks on #4 and they’ll get behind and run less, game over.

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net Larry

    Can’t say I’m a big fan of the “Big Okie”. Capers’ explanation to get another run stopper in to hold the likes of Forte, Benson, Jackson, and Peterson sounds logical, but if Boller can beat Chillar deep twice can you imagine what Favre could do with Harvin’s speed? Back to the board on that one for Monday me thinks.

  • Dan

    One area often overlooked is special teams. Both sides have explosive returners. I could really see this deciding a game between two solid offenses.

    Might be good having a veteran like Wells at Center. He’s at least faced the piped in Metrodome noise.

  • Pete H

    No, I know Mark. He just seems to be running like a pansy most of the time. How often does he lose the first tackler anymore….maybe once a game. Other than that he kind of runs head down, leaning forward, where any slight shove or change in momentum brings him down. Thats all…I hope you’re right. If they get him going that just makes the passing game flat out deadly. Yes Dan, the returners could be huge…though they have covered much better than they did last year on kicks

  • packer_bob

    Pete H says:

    ” I don’t think anyone here has patented fandom. ” Surely, you jest. Some on this forum certainly think they have a patent on it. They know who the imposters are and are quick to point it out. LOL.

    Dan,

    Yes special teams could well be the difference. It was last year with the missed field goal. We absolutely need to contain Harvin.

    As far as Ryan Grant goes, does anyone here see him having a big day based on what you’ve seen THIS season? I’m aware he’s done well before, but with what I see this season, I’m sorry, my expectation level is pretty low. If he can give us enough productivity to just keep them honest, I’ll be happy.

    Hope I’m wrong, if he runs for 150+ yards I’ll be happy as hell, but I’m having a real hard time envisioning that right now.

  • Jeff (the other one)

    When Grant was ripping teams for 60 yarders, he was getting through so quickly the linebackers couldn’t get on him. He doesn’t seem to have that same burst. Even when the line gives him the hole, he’s not hitting it fast enough to punch through those LBs.

    He’s getting those 10-12 yard runs sometimes, but not the long game changers. On second thought, maybe it’s less about Grant than the loss of the spread offense. Is Grant running against significantly different defensive formations than he was a couple years ago?

    Aside from the initial kickoff, I though the coverage was pretty good against the Rams.

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net Larry

    The problem with Grant is that you never know what to expect. I think he is a bigger problem than the OL because my eyes are telling me he is not hungry anymore and afraid of pulling quad or hammy. Enigma, and the last part of the O puzzle (yes, I’m a believer in the OL if they can ever get three games together as a unit). Long range planning I go RB with #1 next year at any cost, even to the extent of trading up, because everybody in Div has QB now and we’re the only ones w/o a premier back. Further that “premier” is sure not on our roster. (Obviously, I exclude DET from any discussion about anything.)

  • http://www.packernet.com admin

    I’m with you Larry, we need a running back big time. When Ahman Green was in his prime our offense was almost unstoppable.

  • PackerPete

    Here are some thoughts on keys for the upcoming game.

    Phil Loadholt is a rookie RT… Capers must exploit this and get pressure on Faver, with pressure his lack of mobility will show. Running two or three defenders at the rook will result in good things for GB.

    Lard-Ass McKinney can be beat with upfield speed, line up Jenkins head up and Matthews over Jenkins left shoulder with either another LB or a safety outside Jenkins who will then drop back, then loop Matthews outside for an open run at Faver, slam, fumble, maybe not getting up.

    All of our defenders must NOT go for Faver when he breaks contain, flushes, etc and runs laterally. He will NOT run across the LOS. He hasnt for 6 years and even if he does that is a license to kill once he is actually across the LOS. I will gladly take a Faver 5 yd jog followed by a severe blow to his ancient body over a defender running up on him leaving a receiver open for an easy dump off followed by a skilled running receiver now moving downfield for God knows how far. Dont get fooled! Faver will NEVER hurt us with his legs!

    Play the high pressure on Faver described aboveand then play more man-up on the outside while crowding the middle zone coverages. With the increased pressure on Faver over the tackle spots, direct push up the middle from the bull Raji and tight man coverage on the outside (Harris and Williams with Woodson over a slot) Favers hot reads will have to be middle where we will be waiting for the picks to come early and often. Wood-Chuck and Collins have a field day at Favers expense.

    Grant has had some decent days running versus Minnehaha, but I still do not see this line getting enough hats on hats for Grant to find the room he needs to be successful. Minnesota has a very good run stopping team D from the line back through LB and secondary. This line cant man up on the front seven and the receivers do not seem to be taking thier blocking seriously since RMart left so the open field runs just will not be there this week. Those are things which could be fixed, but I havent seen any indications that McCarthy evens knows about downfield blocking and demanding it of the WR.

    Where are Jerk-Michael Finley and Donald Lee? All talk, no production. Finley still has a long way to go to know how to get open versus an NFL defense not in vanilla preseason mode. I certainly hope he learns quickly because right now he looks a lot like Tory Humphrey, potential unrealized. A TE that is even a moderate threat really helps the WR in terms of safety help on coverages and our TE are weak links right now, Lee and Finley need to become more than a 3 yard lateral completion guys and get downfield and make a catch or three to establish the threat.

    Yeah, I know I am not an NFL coach so I dont know anything… BS… Football is the least complicated thing I think about, I hold a MS in Microbiology and a PhD in Genetics and Cell Biology and routinely solve much tougher problems than creating favorable matchups and bringing out the competitiveness in players. No more excuses!!

  • Bob

    It has to start with the O line, any person on here should realize that, we have way to many weapons including Grant, to be so terrible with moving the ball. Give Rogers some time and he will look like a hall a famer. as much as it kills me to say it, there is no way in hell we beat the Vikings this week, UNLESS a miracle happens this week with the offensive line, If they protect Rogers we blow the queens out of the dome!

  • packer_bob

    Jeff (the other one,)

    I’ve mentioned before that I thought Grant benefited from the way teams were playing our offense in 2007. He hasn’t looked the same since. Yes, this season part of the problem is also the line, but to me he hasn’t looked the same even taking that into account.

    As far as a premier back, you have to spend a pretty high draft pick to get one, or trade for one as we did with Green. Yes, there is the occasional Tyrell Davis stud drafted in late rounds, but I would submit if we want a real threat in the backfield we’re going to have to work at it a little harder than we have been.

    Good points, PP, can’t respond to them all, but in general we should have the ability to hit and pressure Favre, every other team has. I think we have an advantage in that our D knows him pretty well, whereas he hasn’t seen our D players in this scheme before. Still, it comes down to containing AP first.

  • jackson

    This is way too easy. Hasn’t anyone noticed that Rocky70 is Al Davis the admin. It took me awhile, but I have had a few posts deleted and they are only when I address Rocky or Al….I guarantee it! Just read how they/him feed off of…each other? However, this will probably be deleted also, so what is it worth?

  • http://Orlando Mark

    Bob, #12 doesn’t turn the ball over and #4 does. We can run a conservative game and still win if we can slow AP. We don’t need bombs, they’ll be available if the Vikes over commit to the run because their DB’s aren’t that good and our receivers are. So we can take a couple of shots. But I believe in mostly runs and short passes, even a QB keeper. #12 is running for his life anyhow in passing situations, that was a well designed play last week.

  • http://www.packernet.com admin

    Nice try Jackson/Jon/Brutus.

  • packer_bob

    Ha, he messed you up that time and didn’t delete it! Ran the old double reverse on you!

  • Matt Hayton

    Al – I think you hit the nail on the head here…I think this game comes down to can we contain AP and can our OL contain their D-Line/have some semblance of a running game. Also agree that Grant is not the answer. I’ve never seen a 1200 yard back look so pedestrian.

    I’m also concerned about Harvin creating mismatches for our safetys and LBs. My fear is that we won’t be able to handle the dome noise and those 2 guys will break a big play or two…due more to a missed assignment than just getting beat.

    To be completely honest, I think we split with them, each of us winning our home games.

    Getting Cliffy back, if possible, gives us a better chance, but truthfully without 2 pick 6’s last year they would have blown us out at the dome. Regardless of who their QB is, Minne is one of the toughest places to play due to crowd noise and the group that is most impacted by that is an OL, which happens to be our weakest link.

    To win, I think the OL has to man up and give AR some time.

    D needs to contain their big weapons and force a couple of turnovers, which they’ve been really good at doing so far.

    And MM needs to call a much better game than he did last week. I sure hope all of you are right that he has been saving half of the playbook for the Queens, they need it!

    Is anyone else concerned that jennings has only had 2 catches in the last 2 games? He’s probably our best offensive playmaker and he MUST touch the ball more this week for our offense to be successful. Slants, WR screens…need to get back to WCO basics and sustain some drives to take the crowd out of it.

    We can hype this game as the revenge game, superbowl in Minne, but this game will be won or lost in the trenches. Key here in my mind is the OL, and unfortunately, I don’t have much confidence in that group going up against one of the best D Lines in football. Again TT has ignored making major upgrades to this position group and I think it will cost us this game. Our guys have gotten dominated up front the last 2 games…they have to fix that somehow this week or we’ll lose the game. It’s that simple.

  • Pack4life

    The Run defense has been poor 2 solid weeks. The culprits Hawk, and Poppinga.
    Bishop plays downhill far better than any ILB on the team. OLB in Capers defense is a playmaking position can anyone recall a play Poppinga has made this year?? Matthews is the better option, Cushing and Maluga both start and Matthews was drafted between them. Peterson is still a super human back there and if Benson and Jackson can crack 100… well. The only way to defend Peterson is the scoreboard get up 2 scores and he is no longer a viable option.

  • Jack in Columbus

    Many years from now …

    God asks Peyton Manning first: “What do you believe?”

    Peyton thinks long and hard, looks God in the eye, and says, “I believe in Hard work, and in staying true to family and friends. I believe in giving. I Was lucky, but I always tried to do right by my fans.”

    God can’t help but see the essential goodness of Manning, and offers him a seat to his left.

    Then God turns to Aaron Rodger’s and says, “What do you believe?”

    Aaron says, “I believe passion, discipline, courage and honor are the fundamentals of life. I, too, Have been lucky, but win or lose, I’ve always tried to be a true sportsman, both on and off the playing fields.”

    God is greatly moved by Aaron’s sincere eloquence and he offers him a seat to his right.

    Finally, God turns to Brett Favre: “And you, Brett, what do you believe?”

    Brett replies, “I believe you’re in my seat.”

  • Rocky70

    ” Nice try Jackson/Jon/Brutus. ”

    Funny how Jackson shows up once a month to declare his interpretation of events.

    It’s fairly simple: Al pays the bills. …. He can also pull the plug at anytime…. Some of you would be lost if you couldn’t get your daily PackerNet fix….. A little respect for the Admin keeps this site on line…. ya think?

  • packer_bob

    MH,

    That’s right, we did have the turnovers in that game last year, I only remember the missed FG for some reason.

    You’re right about the Jennings touches also, even though the two he had last week were big ones it would be nice to get the ball in his hands a little more regularly. This goes along with our discussion of what happened to the slant pass.

    I see we worked out some lineman today, all no names with the exception of Levi Jones, former first round pick. Anybody got the lowdown on any of these guys? I know they’re irrelevant for the Vikes, just wondering about possible help for the OL down the road.

  • Rocky70

    More doom & gloom from MH…. Why even show for the game…. The Pack don’t stand a chance….

    You need to try something different at least once in your evergoing ‘doom & gloom’ analysis of the Pack….. Pick apart the Vikes like you do the Pack & list all their deficiences…. They have many …… You try this approach just once & you may find that the Vikes need to shore up in order to beat the Pack….

    It’s all in how you want to view it ….. For instance, with AR play faking & rolling out, the Vikes secondary doesn’t stand a chance of defending Jennings, Driver, etc. …… Grant will run the ball just enough to give the Williams boys something to do ….

    Look at the game this way——– Chilly & Favre = dumb & dumber
    This could very well be GB in a cake-walk………………………………..

  • packer_bob

    Call him a ball washer, again Rocky. “Doom and Gloomer” is SOOO 2008.

  • Rocky70

    Per MH

    “…. but truthfully without 2 pick 6’s last year they would have blown us out at the dome. ”

    You can’t eliminate plays in a game (after the fact) & then draw conclusions. Firstly, your facts as usual are skewed…. N. Collins returned an INT for a TD…. Blackmon also returned a punt for six….. Need to keep your ‘facts’ really factual…. The two TDs are part of the game… they can’t be eliminated…. You could change the outcome of 90% of all NFL games just by eliminating or changing 2 or 3 plays per game…. Your efforts to depict ‘doom & gloom’ are futile……. We don’t all fall for your skewed vision of reality……….

    How about this alteration….. Eliminate the two safeties in last years game & GB wins 27-24 or keep the safeties & add Crosby making the missed FG —- GB wins 30-28.

    Again, it’s all on how you want to view the situation…..

  • Rocky70

    ” We don’t all fall for your skewed vision of reality………. ”

    Except of course PB……..

    MH & PB = Skipper & Gulligan

    ……. PB….. you don’t have to agree with everything MH posts, ya know…. A little independent thinking would do you a world of good…….. Try it sometime.

  • packer_bob

    Re-read what I said about the game. I said I thought we had a chance to get a win in the Dome, just like I thought San Fran had a good to chance to steal one.

    I still want you to call him Brett Favre’s leading ball washer again. Then deny it.

  • packer_bob

    Love how you quoted yourself, btw. Very revealing.

  • Jeff (the other one)

    My skewed reality.

    The teams are pretty evenly matched – having an interesting combination of strengths and weaknesses.

    Our run game has been a bit weak, while their run D is highly touted.
    Our CBs are outstanding, while their WRs are weak.
    Our WRs are outstanding, while their secondary is weak.
    I think QBs would be a push except the home dome favors Favre.
    They have the best runner in the NFL and a #1 RB behind him in Taylor.
    Our D-line is a work in progress. LBs have played better.
    Coaching goes to the Packers. I’m not a big fan of MM, but BC is horrible.
    Favre will be fired up – good or bad for us? Could go either way in my thinking.

  • Rocky70

    Some classic humor in reference to the Vikings starting QB.

    ” Brett Favre has said that he’d gladly take a game off in 2009 if his health were to become a hindrance to Minnesota’s success. And you know Favre, he’s a man of his word. ”

    ” Brett Favre has the top-selling jersey in the NFL. Though half of those sales come from Green Bay fans burning it. ”

    ” One NFL source insists Brett Favre can’t peacefully retire until he finds a way to get revenge on the Packers. Given his performance in the second half of last season, the best revenge would be playing for them. “

  • packer_bob

    That’s just it Jeff the other, there are pro’s and cons for both teams. A case could be made either way.

    But if you don’t shake your TT pom-pom’s hard enough around here, some people call you out. RAH-RAH, WE’RE SO GOOD, except we can’t see it on the field. You also have to think Favre is washed up and incapable of making a play, despite what your eyeballs told you last weekend. If you think he’s the Anti-Christ, that helps too.

    They have the best RB in the league, a helluva back up as you noted, and home field so that right there makes them the favorites in this game in my book, especially factoring in how weak we’ve looked against the run.

    But we have a reasonable chance of pulling it out, if we can slow down AP and protect AR. Their secondary is certainly exploitable if we can keep AR upright. None of us have a crystal ball, so we’ll see in a little less than a week.

  • Rocky70

    ” But if you don’t shake your TT pom-pom’s hard enough around here, some people call you out. ”

    What’s TT got to do with this game ?

    As usual, you’re the first to mention the GM —- abit obsessive ?

  • Pack4life

    Why Bring in Levi Brown and not sign him. He has only given up 7 Sacks in Seven years on some pitiful Bengal teams. If Rouse can get cut and he actually was serviceable. Babre must go. Babre rejuvenates guys who are content to just show up.
    Here is a question have the Packers since the Holmgren area had a top flight O-line coach? Alex Gibbs, Joe Bugel, Hudson Houck even Mike Tice. Tice is a bleep as a head coach but he is starting 2 rookie tackles in Jacksonville and I would take their production right now.

  • O’Jeff

    PB

    We’re 2-1 and playing for the lead position in our division. It’s awful early in the season, but that’s not shabby.

    As for the pom-poms, I’ve promised myself that I’ll laugh for at least five minutes before replying to Rocky anymore.

    Called out.
    *looney laughter*

    Pistols at dawn! A slimey ball washer like me dared to call himself a Packer fan.
    Stay happy, y’all. I’ve had enough of this silliness for a while.

  • Matt Hayton

    Thank God, we are finanlly looking at O-Lineman. I was clamoring for this last week adn told how ridiculous I was to either expect them to find a street free agent better than Barbe in the middle of the season or make a trade for one…Looks like TT is a miracle worker after all.

    Didn’t even know Levi Jones was available. Think this is a no-brainer as Pack4life said, they had btter sign him or it will be added to a long list of could’ve, should’ve would’ves in TT’s book. this is a no-brainer. I will be looking for a press conference tomorrow announcing this signing.

    He has to be better than Barbre, period. Sign him! This would be a huge move…sure hope it happena. It would make me feel alot better about the prospects of the rest of our season. Would love to see them sign Jones and still bring back Tausch. Future is now, baby. Future is now! That OL would no longer be a liability and they’d have some depth there in case of another injury…

  • Pack4life

    When Jones was in Cincy remember he would play Pittsburgh and Baltimore twice a year. Better defenses than he will see in our division.

  • roy jamison

    Yes Al let the fun begin! Can’t wait to see the hugs and kisses from number 4 to TT and MM. Ah, that will make for great tv viewing. Peterson should still get his 100 yards. If Benson can get a 100, Peterson should get 200, but I really think he’ll barely get his 100 in this game because it should be intense. On the other hand, the Packers have to establish something of a running game with Grant. If they can take the heat off of A-Rod, he should have a solid night.

  • packer_bob

    “What’s TT got to do with this game ?”

    Absolutely nothing, the team assembled itself. They’re like a militia, a loose confederation of like minded men banded together by a common cause. When the O-line finally gets decent, it will have formed by happy accident, like evolution.

    My point is, those of us that aren’t all gung ho on this team (based on observance by the way), assembled by TT and coached by MM, are often called out as non fans.

  • Rocky70

    A little attention to detail is in order. Plus, full accuracy.

    ” The Packers wanted to gauge where Jones is at in the event starting left tackle Chad Clifton, who sprained an ankle against the Bengals, is out for an extended period of time. ”

    ” Jones likely wouldn’t be an option for right tackle, where he has never played. ”

    Trying to fit square pegs into round holes very rarely helps any team…. BTW, most NFL teams work out street FAs on a weekly basis during the season….

    Hey, O’Jeff —– Nothing wrong with changing your ID as long as you’re using only one at a time……….. right MH ?

  • Rocky70

    @ PB

    ” Absolutely nothing, the team assembled itself. ”

    The Viking-Packer game is less than a week away……….. At this point in time, a GM has nothing to do with this game………… ( I doubt TT is suiting up for the game)

    Now, have I dumbed-up my previous post enough so you can understand? …. I can go even slower if it’ll help you comprehend better…… Like I advised you once before, ask someone if you have problems understanding……….. Just trying to help.

  • Rocky70

    Per PFT

    “To that end, the Chiefs tried out former Packers right tackle Mark Tauscher Tuesday.
    Drafted in 2000 by Green Bay, Tauscher has been recovering from ACL surgery.
    The Packers wouldn’t rule out re-signing Tauscher over the summer, but they haven’t publicly expressed interest in him recently despite their struggles on the offensive line.”

  • packer_bob

    You don’t have to dumb them down, Rocky, I assure you they’re stupid while you’re coming up with them.

    Did you even read my post? The point is that our team has strengths and weaknesses and so do the Vikes. MH chimes in with a few of our realistic weaknesses and you go into the “Gloom and Doom, the Pack shouldn’t even show up for the game” over reach routine, which isn’t at all what he said.

    Are you happy with our team right now? I know we’re 2-1 and thank god for that, but if you think we’re playing well right now you’re on drugs. Can it be corrected, sure it can. It’s a long season. But you should get over this thing where if not every fan sees us blowing the Vikings out, like evidently you do with your cakewalk comment, then somehow they’re not a fan or they’re stupid. If you think we can continue with the current level of effort and execution and end up any better than 8-8, you’re touched in the head.

    And no shit, Sherlock, TT can’t do much to help us heading into the Vikes games. I’m not asking him to. But right now, our line is a mess, we can’t run, Rodgers has been sacked 12 times when 16 for the season is the goal, and we can’t stop the run. If this continues for the year, you’re damn right I’m blaming him. He’s responsible for the guys on the field. And McCarthy too. If you want to stick your head in the sand and say they have nothing to do with it, go ahead and delude yourself, but not everyone is going to see it that way. (Read Al’s posts during the games for Christ sake’s, you’re his little fricking lap dog anyway. He was pissing his pants during the Cleveland and Rams games. That ought to tell you how great we looked.)

  • Rocky70

    PB … Your rants & raves are only annoying…. Three games does not make a season ….. Today’s whore is tommorrow’s darling…… Please, quit paraphrasing my posts…. you continually reword everything I post to suit your madness…. Try copy & paste…. it’s easier & more accurate…..

    Interesting tidbit from MJS: (just trying to educate the uninformed)

    ” That the Packers worked out so many offensive lineman does not mean anything. NFL teams, during the first four to six weeks of the season, routinely work out several players at the same position. Two weeks ago, the Packers worked out quarterbacks and receivers. Next Tuesday it could very well be running backs and linebackers.

    Teams are trying to make sure they have enough information on certain players. Teams have emergency depth charts so if a rash of injuries hit at a certain position, they know exactly who they will target and in what order.

    These workouts all about making sure the Packers have their ducks in a row. Happens every year with every team and every position. “

  • packer_bob

    Like I said in the last thread, Rocky, show me where I misquoted you.

    “More doom & gloom from MH…. Why even show for the game…. The Pack don’t stand a chance….”—You did write this, right? Someone else in the nursing home hijacking your computer? Or you just can’t keep track of what you write, like the ball washer comment you denied making, and haven’t responded to even though I’ve brought it up 17 times now.

    You wrote it Rocky, and it’s a complete over reach of what MH said. And as usual you don’t answer the question. You’re really happy with the way we’ve looked so far this year, then?

  • Rocky70

    @ PB

    We’re 2-1. …. The only record that’s better is 3-0……. You didn’t expect to go 16-0? …. Maybe I’ve been giving you too much credit. …. Anyone who knows anything about the NFL knows that every team is a work in progress…. GB is in good shape, much better than most teams.

    It’s all in how you look at it…. You choose half-empty….. I choose half-full….. You can languish in your pessimism……………… I choose not to.

  • http://Orlando Mark

    Guys, it’s a little too late to worry about what we should have done. That’s fine for the off season, I’ve got my own opinions. The fat is in the fire. I really don’t believe this week is crucial but this team growing up is. We have to play as solid as we can and we’ll have a chance to win like SF did. And, that will make us a better team win or lose. We have to win at home vs the Vikes. If we can steal this game it’s just gravy(of course it will be crushing for the Vikes).

  • Danny

    Al,

    I think you right about everything EXCEPT, Brett gas trouble against 3-4 defenses.

    He’s 6-0 against Capers!!!
    I am all for killing the queens, but lets have intelligent conversation based on facts!!

    Do you think MM is telling Capers ‘oh dont worry, brett has trouble against 3-4 defenses’?

    Come on people you have to respect the team your facing every week, you gave to be realistic in what they are capable of if you have any chance of stopping them!!!

    I personally can’t stand the drama queen brett has become but i don t bitch about him all the time. and i only mention it now because certain folks around here like to bitch the minute someone points out Favre is not a terrible player (talking to you Rocky).

  • Danny

    and i also nned to make sure i hit the “H” instead of the “G” when i type. Sorry about the spelling errors.

  • http://Orlando Mark

    BTW, the Niners QB isn’t as good as ours and they lost Frank Gore early and still should have won.

  • Rocky70

    ” BTW, the Niners QB isn’t as good as ours and they lost Frank Gore early and still should have won. ”

    Good point…… Like I’ve said…it all depends on how one views the situation…. It’s tiresome to constantly read on this blog all the continuous ‘what’s wrong’ with the Pack……

  • Mel e Mel

    As a Packer fan for better than 30 years, I view most games with cautious optimism. The plain facts say the Packers have the worst past protection in the NFL. Until the problem is fixed its worth mentioning.
    LT is the hardest position on the O-Line. If Brown could block vs Pitt and Baltimore certainly he can line up at RT vs Chicago and Detroit. I hope the Oline situation is not an indicator of overall strategy. Rouse has some bad plays and he is shown the door. Babre has done nothing in 4 years and he keeps a starting job. Is that fair. It looks like accountability is reserved for Defense.

  • PackerPete

    Hey Mark, is McCarthy at the Shriners hospital in Cincy?

    Mark Says:

    September 29th, 2009 at 7:28 pm
    Guys, it’s a little too late to worry about what we should have done. That’s fine for the off season, I’ve got my own opinions. The fat is in the fire.

  • http://Orlando Mark

    Sorry PackerPete I don’t get the reference. I just got a little tired of the back and forth between Rocky and packer-bob. It was just round and round.

  • PackerPete

    fat in the fire, shriners burn hospital, McLardy… jokes are always better when you get to explain them…

  • http://Orlando Mark

    Oh, I get it now. MM is a little portly, funny.

  • http://Orlando Mark

    Actually just got that before I got your reply, funnier when you have to think about it.

  • Mark Troy

    The Packers need a proven lineman. Why aren’t they talking to this guy?…
    http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090929/PKR01/90929171/1057/PKR&located=rss

  • RayL

    Because TT is a moron…that’s why

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net Larry

    Not all organizations operate on the theory that the future is now. Seems to me the Redskins, Cowboys, Raiders, and MIN have adopted that strategy. Hows that working for them? I suppose one example that has worked recently is the Patriots, but it is usually the exception.

    Bringing in FAs for quick fixes rarely works, albeit it worked in ’95-’96 for the Pack. We were lucky; but we had Brett and REGGIE in their prime, although REGGIE went down hill with his back in a hurry.

    We’ve got to live through these OL growing pains to create a unit and let them take their lumps, as painfull as it is right now. If we don’t we’ll never create that great line a lot of you think we had in the Wahle/Rivera times. Cliffy is on his way out and if the others cannot get together we will have more problems when he leaves. There are no valuable OL FAs out there. Case in point Levi Brown who hasn’t had a full season in years – thats why he ain’t in CIN.

    As I stated earlier, if we had a decent RB who could go inside with power, make a cutback once in a while, or just once a game go outside and around the OL would not look so bad and would not be blown over so much in pass protection.

    Might as well be patient because if these guys are healthy they are going to play. There is a learning process going on with a hell of a lot of pressure on everybody from MM/TT on down. Buckle up, they are our future.

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net Larry

    Hey, RayL, look up Oxy-moron. In your last post you called for a MIN victory, AP to get 200, BF to torch Woodson and Harris, and more of the same in the second meeting so that MM and TT will get fired. Being the Packer fan that you are you must have been sarcastic.

    However, a couple of posts prior to that you said “TT is a joke”, “Bush should not be on the team and #4 should be.” Along with Tony Gonzales(z). Am I mis-quoting you?

    Perhaps your loyalties are directed at the wrong team – but then again I see your passion and how badly you want the Pack to win. Good luck; if BF has a great day and the Pack wins will you be happy?

  • Matt Hayton

    Larry-

    So you really think Levi Brown isn’t any better than Barbre? You are losing credibility in my book.

    Seriously this is stupid. We all agree that OL is our number one weakness, yet here we stand, Tausch is trying out in KC and they sign some no-namer to the practice squad? Like I said, I’ll be hoping for that signing of Jones by tomorrow. Otherwise I am going to come unglued!

    This isn’t rocket science. When I have flat tire on my truck, I change it. I don’t sit there and look at 6 different tires and leave them all laying on the ground. And I sure as hell don’t go to walmart, buy a new spare and put it my truck bed, ignore the flat and get back on the freeway and hope the flat goes away. Come on TT, sign somebody, becasue clearly they are better than what we have now. Change the frickin tire already!

    If it isn’t bringing a street free agent or making a trade, Larry? Then how in the hell do you propose we fix that gawd-damn awful O-Line? Would love to hear your thoughts since you and TT clearly must have some secret recipe simmering …

    Or do you think the O-Line isn’t an issue? or are we okay having a piss-poor line because we are still “building for the future?”

  • Rocky70

    MH

    With all the teams that have OL issues at this moment, wouldn’t you think L. Jones would already be on someone’s roster… in fact he would have signed after week one if he were so valuable as you seem to indicate.

    L. Jones has never played RT…… He has never played in a zone-blocking system. He’s recovering from extensive off-season leg surgery…….. Evidently all 32 NFL teams do not want him at this point. ……

    When you are done fixing your flat tire, take some time to learn something about football….. Do you ever do any research so you can present a viable post worth reading? …. You are either amazingly stupid or just eff’in lazy… (Maybe both)

  • http://Orlando Mark

    Larry, bringing in free agents works all the time that’s why teams do it. Look at our SB years. Turner and Pennington for playoff teams last year. Woodson is pretty good for us. The Dolphins needed a QB and just made a trade. Grant was a help for us when we brought him in in ’07. I don’t want to argue about it or point fingers. Staying with an O-line is a good idea but we’re shuffling them around anyway and to say we’re thin is an understatement. Three FB’s and Havner and not having a backup tackle is nonsense and you know it.

  • Rocky70

    @ Larry

    Oxy-moron ??

    Punk, you know you shouldn’t be using words like this posting on this blog…. There are many here who have issues understanding any word that’s more than 4 letters long…. You need to dumb-down your posts and go slower so they can at least pick up the jist of your post. ………..

    ” We’ve got to live through these OL growing pains to create a unit and let them take their lumps, as painfull as it is right now. ”

    As painful as it is right now has created a 2-1 record…. an eyelash from 3-0 & playing for 1st place come Monday night…. That’s not a bad outcome for any NFL team…. Just ask the Titans, Steelers, Panthers or Dolphins….. After only 3 games, I’m satisfied… Anyone who understands the NFL would be content with the Pack’s position at this point.

  • Rocky70

    Mark

    ” Larry, bringing in free agents works all the time that’s why teams do it. ”

    All the time ?? … Come on… You’re smarter than this…. You know dam well that there are as many busts in free agency as their are good signings. … Maybe more….

    You can sign FAs, trade players, cut players & draft players all you want on Madden 2010…. The NFL is real life ….

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net Larry

    Well, we tend to repeat ourselves; the arguements pro/con stated so many times its now boring. We’ll just have to see how it plays out.

    Somebody continually tearing down OUR team is an Oxy-moron self described and I can’t make it any more simple.

    The Players, Coaching Staff, Suits, Board, Employees, and FANs are the Packers. You support the whole package or you choose to go somewhere else; not rocket science. Criticism-good, disloyalty-bad in my book.

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net Larry

    Oh, insofar as that “future is now theory” re FAs, MIN is playing that in spades we’ll see how that works out this year and next because they’re committed to two years. Some on this post really have to be having their guts torn out with BF up there, not me. Who will be their QB in three years; think ours will be better?

  • Rocky70

    ” Who will be their QB in three years; think ours will be better? ”

    The Vikes QB in three years is playing on Saturdays today. …. In fact, I would contend that the Vikes 2010 QB is playing on Saturdays right now, ala Sanchez in NY….. The new regime in Minn. after Chilly gets dumped after 2009 will purge all the ‘old’ & bring in the new…. It happens when someone else takes over…. Look for both Chilly & Lord Farve to be unemployed come January, 2010…. The Vikes are a disaster just waiting to happen….. Starts Monday night.

  • http://Orlando Mark

    Larry, around we go. The Jets brought in free agents last year and they are doing better than expected, with those players as integral parts, right now. I’m talking about Kris Jenkins and Faneca. And I really believe bringing in #4 showed a commitment by their management to winning, that changed an organization that had been dead since Namath.
    Rocky you’re right about the Vikes but bringing in one or two veterans is hardly betting house on them. A balance is necessary to compete in an era of free agency. We are out of balance by being too young and I think we’re going to pay for that this year.

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net Larry

    How’d that work for the J-E-T-S? Seems to me Pennington had the better year all considered. 8mil for Faneca, 12mil for Favre, 7mil for Pace, and 5mil for Woody – thats a cool 32mil, brother! The guy they traded for got hurt mid year and ruined they’re great start. It looks like the kid they have now might be better than either of they’re most recent QBs, ah, the draft. So what I’m a Packer fan.

    7 Pro-Bowlers and they didn’t make the playoffs.

  • PackerPete

    lets get a sense of reality here folks.

    32 x 8 = 256

    This is how many practice squad players there are now in the NFL.

    most if not all of these plaYERS ARE BETTER THAN MOST IF NOT ALL STREET FREE AGENTS, THAT IS WHY THEY ARE ON THE PRACTICE SQUAD.

    iF WE NEED MORE BETTER PLAYERS ON THE BOTTOM OF OUR ROSTER, WE SHOULD BE LOOKING ON OTHER TEAMS PRACTICE SQUADS, JUST LIKE bUFFALO DID ON OURS WHEN THEY SIGNED MEREDITH AWAY.

    OK, sorry for the caps it was an accident and im not going to retype all that.

    Street free agents are a way to have a revolving door on the practice squad, not fill out the gameday roster of 44.

    If TT is serious about addressing this teams needs, we should see a signing or two from other teams practice squads. There seems to be a bit of an unwritten rule regarding signing away practice squad players once the post-training camp cut downs have been completed, but with Lanasanah last year (which cost us Tracy White, our best special teamer) and Meridith this year, teams have targeted our practice squad, so there can be no blame for us to do a little shopping.

    In summary, practice squad players are a much richer source of talent than street free agents, and this is yet again a source of potential like free agents) which TT will not use.

  • PackerPete

    Sorry Packer Bob, another post illustrating the truth concerning TT’s shortcomings as an NFL GM. I guess I will become a pariah here shortly…

  • packer_bob

    He doesn’t have any shortcomings. Neither does McCarthy. We’re 2-1, everything’s rosy, or haven’t you noticed?

    Seriously, I’m OK with the 2-1. What I’m not Ok with is the shape of our O-line, our RB situation, the way we’re hemhoraging yards against the run, etc. If things get worked out over the course of the season (distinctly possible), great.

    But imo these problems are the foundation for another mediocre or worse season. One of our victories is the closest thing to a gimmie you can get in the NFL right now, and the other recquired 4 Cutler picks and a bomb under 2 minutes. This level of performance is especially frustrating with the expectation level coming out of pre. Most of the people that want to salve over the current problems and say they’re content with the record are the same people that were talking about how loaded with talent we were in pre. Why don’t we see it then?

    Larry’s right, most of this is just redundant and goes round and round. Mark’s right, this game is way more important for the Vikes than for us, although obviously would be a huge pick up for us with the win. We’ll see how it plays out.

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net Larry

    Wow, just saw the Gazette’s “between the lines” for the first time. Quality work, A+!

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net Larry

    Excuse me, “Along the lines”!!!

  • packer_bob

    “Who will be their QB in three years; think ours will be better?”

    First of all, this isn’t the question Minnesota was asking themselves during the offseason. The question for them was, is our current QB situation sufficient and can we improve it? I’m sure they realize Favre is a one to two year answer, but an answer that has the potential to pay off in a big way and buys them time to provide for the position in the future.

    See Larry, they’re silly enough to look at a team that has the best RB in the league, a stout D (at least D-line) and say “Hey, we might get to the SB if we build around this, what can we do to achieve this?”

    Second, let’s not act like our QB situation is due to planning or bold action, or anything like that. I’m glad we have him but he plummeted from potential number 1 to 22 or 24 or wherever we picked that year. We got lucky. Other teams struggle to find a QB for decades ala the Bears, and we know what they had to give up to get Cutler, a move which is going to be giving us fits for years. If the shoe was on the other foot, you think we would have pulled a move like that? I sure as hell don’t.

  • packer_bob

    “How’d that work for the J-E-T-S? Seems to me Pennington had the better year all considered. 8mil for Faneca, 12mil for Favre, 7mil for Pace, and 5mil for Woody – thats a cool 32mil, brother!”

    Granted, Favre’s gone, is everybody else? Favre got hurt and they faltered down the stretch last season. The other moves are still paying dividends. They are 12-7 dating back to the start of last season, what’s our record again? I’m just saying I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss the moves they’ve made or use that as an example of why FA doesn’t work.

    Pennington just blew his shoulder up for the third time, should they have kept him? Regardless of Favre, at the end of the day, they are way better off now than they were two years ago. And they fired a 9-7 coach. How’s he looking in Cleveland? I heard Hub Arkush talking about Mangini and sounds like he was a big part of the problem. Point is, they aren’t afraid to shuffle the deck to try for success.

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net Larry

    Perhaps p_b, but his price was too high I would imagine and he may well give the Bearse fits for years too. He sure didn’t make DEN achieve their goal.

    Gee, some might have thought it a bold move when 23 others passed on him. See how things can be twisted around to fit ones pre mindset? What must the GM that picked Alex Smith be thinking? Also, are those other 22 GMs still GMs?

    All I’ve ever said is, if your’e a Packer fan stay with us, if not leave. There is nothing wrong with criticizing but the redundancy becomes boring.

    Don’t you guys ever read the Lombardi quotes that Admin so graciously gives us daily? Might change your outlook. St Vincent didn’t demand perfection, only the pursuit, dedication, effort, and loyalty given to it.

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net Larry

    What the hell has the record got to do with it when you “quick fix” guys don’t get the title in the year you committed the teams future in. Those guys are 1/4 of their cap, just substitute Sanchez $ for Favres. They didn’t win their Div. Now Miami is without Pennington, where are they headed?

    Waiting for someone to revive the call for Garcia, hes available again! I wouldn’t give up a special teams player for him unless both AR and Flynn go down; but then if that happened I guess I wouldn’t have to.

  • packer_bob

    Who cares how much cap room you have if you never use it?

  • packer_bob

    Quick fix? Again, Favre’s not there but Jenkins, Faneca and Woody are. The Jets got Thomas Jones the year before, and he’s still there too.

    Nobody’s saying FA is the complete answer, most of the current Jets are their own draft picks. But those FA pick ups are giving them a window to get there. I’m just saying, when you say “How’d that work out for the Jets” with regards to FA, they’ve had more success than they were and the whole story has not yet been written.

    And if Rodgers misses any substantial time, you may end up wishing we had Garcia.

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net Larry

    Well, p_b think of it this way. We have about 9 or 10 guys making 500k this year who will want anything from 1.5 to 2.5 in next years negotiations. Thats at least 10mil of the 23-26mil we have in the till w/o counting the already contracted increases; at a minimum of 10% would be another 12-15mil. Thats just the in-house obligations. All of this is conjecture on my part because I’m not about to run all the numbers plus the unknown factor of next year.

    I’m just saying we’ve seen MIN do this before and it killed them, We have seen what DET has done W/ all of those #1 high priced WRs, and now the Bearse have committed their next few years on a QB, WR(?), and 36 year old LT. Think those moves will put ‘em in the SB? Could happen, of course, but I’d bet against it.

    The frustration level seen here is calling for change for the sake of change, the names that pop up are has beens or too expensive, face it. Its a trap.

    The reference to the ’90s is valid, but a true team changer ala REGGIE isn’t out there.

  • packer_bob

    “Gee, some might have thought it a bold move when 23 others passed on him.” Most of those teams had needs other than QB. Also, if Rodgers had been drafted by San Fran and just thrown in right away as a starter, he might not have worked out either.

    Rodgers fell in our lap as a great value pick that could sit behind a veteran QB that still had skills but we knew was closer to the end than the beginning. That pick was a no brainer and was TT’s style big time, a potential number one sliding all the way into the 20’s and he has the best player available MO.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad we took Rodgers and said so at the time. But I don’t remember anyone lauding that pick at the time as “bold.”

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net Larry

    GOOD GRIEF, rebuttal as in argue just for the sake of arguing and ignore logic fact, AND history. Out!

  • packer_bob

    Who’s the receiver the Bears have committed big $ to? They gave some things up for Cutler, and I guess time will tell, but if you can’t already see that he can do things no Bear QB has been able to at least in my lifetime, then I don’t think you’re looking too hard. Pace is old but I think they picked up him as an upgrade, not a long term answer, and wouldn’t say he broke the bank.

    We didn’t need to make alot of the moves the Bears or Jets did. I’m not suggesting we should have over paid for someone like Haynesworth. But you wouldn’t like to see a Hutchinson or a Faneca on this line right about now? Or maybe Jerry Porter in the LB corps?

    It’s a fine line, Larry, granted, between overdoing FA ala Daniel Snyder and still having nothing to show for it or using FA to add pieces to the puzzle.

  • packer_bob

    Sorry, Larry, if you want to thank drafting Rodgers was “a bold move” we just disagree.

  • Matt Hayton

    Larry-

    What are we “waiting for”? It seems like you are content with us being mediocre? And you didn’t answer the question…if we don’t sign a free agent or make a trade. How do we fix that OL?

    One conern for me is that AR could take a shot that knocks him out and then our season is done. In fact with a piss-poor OL, our season will be done. Very rare you can win the NFL with a bad OL.

    My “future is now” comment goes back tot eh last 2 or 3 years ont hsi board when you and others have stated that we should be patient they’re building through the draft for the future…balh, blah, blah. Favre is gone. MM is in year 4, TT in year 55,w hich is a lifetime for many NFL coaches and GMs. I would think now would be the precious future you and other have said they were building for it. If it isn’t then when is that future?

    Would love to get your take on this, since clearly we look at this differently…

  • Matt Hayton

    Larry you speak very clearly of all of our internal obligations going into next season. Not to mention we need 2 OTs, now. They have Kampman, Collins, Spitz, Colledge, Clifton, Chillar, Pickett, Jolly and Blackmon all up to resign. No way they can keep all of these guys…which means they’ll have some hard decisions and more than likely end up with more holes in the roster a year from now than they do today.

    Meanwhile they’ve been building for the “proverbial future” with all of these guys. This is 8 impact players, Chillar & Blackmon are the only non-starters on this list…

    Clifton won’t be resigned for sure.

    Kampman they will more than likely let walk. Probably only keep either Pickett or Jolly, but not both. My guess would be Jolly since he is younger. And he’ll keep both of his precious pedestrian OLineman, which are sucking up the joint. Neither Spitz or Colledge are better than average OLineman in my book.

    Which means they’ll need atleast one more D-Lineman to go with Jolly. 2 OT’s and a guard if they are smart only keep one of either Spitz or Colledge.

    A safety because God knows he won’t overpay for Collins.

    And Kampman will be replaced by some of their depth from within. Don’t forget we will need to start replacing our bookend corners, as well.

    so while we’ve been building, and building, we’re now going to have to rebuild all over again. Meanwhile, we’ve wasted 5 years and have nothing to show for it.

  • Matt Hayton

    Regarding the D-Line meant to say one more DT to go with Raji, not Jolly.

  • jackson

    Geez! So many of you state that the Pack is done if Rodgers goes down for any length of time. However, you are the same people that state Favre does not make a difference on a team. It is the great team around him, blah, blah, blah…then you blame him for the team losing when he throws a few picks. Criticize at your convenience appears to be what you are doing.

    PS. Favre’s best play on Sunday was not the throw at the end to win the game, it was him running 40 yards with his team to take out a linebacker via a block. That is what pumps a team up. That is leadership, and you all loved it when he did it as a Packer. You can still be a Packer fan and respect what Favre does on the field.

  • http://Orlando Mark

    Matt H, after the good free agents went in the spring and no one of consequence was brought in I wrote this season off as developing young players. If we win our division great. But I think we should all realize next year is our best chance at a post season run. Larry, TT’s brought in good free agents in Woodson, Pickett and Chillar and the sky didn’t fall. The only thing they have in common were that they were bargains. We’re going to need some help on the O-line next year and the draft is a long shot so I hope TT takes next year seriously and signs a useful tackle if one is out there and resigns Collins(we’re a little thin there as well).
    Sorry to bring this up for the hundredth time especially with a great game coming up Monday.

  • packer_bob

    We needed some help on the O-line this year, we just didn’t know it.

  • roy jamison

    Matt nice post. OT and CB are going to need attention for sure. I hate to bring it up again, but swinging and missing on Harrell is something you don’t recover from for awhile. I’d like to see an upgrade at RB, but I don’t see that happening any time soon either.

  • Rocky70

    The best FA move the Jets made during the offseason was showing BF the door…. same as GB in 2008……..

    Dam that TT for signing Woodson a few years back …. Face it, the GM does doesn’t have a clue………. Look at our piss-poor defensive backfield now…… Er… Er…. Wait a second…. ……. Here’s an update:

    ” Cornerback Charles Woodson will be named the National Football League’s defensive player of the month on Thursday.
    It will be the second-straight year he won the award.
    Like last season, Woodson has three interceptions after the first month. He leads the team and is tied for the league lead in that category. “

  • Rocky70

    “….does doesn’t…..” is for PB so he has an easier time of twisting the post around.

    LOL.

  • Rocky70

    “….which means they’ll have some hard decisions and more than likely end up with more holes in the roster a year from now than they do today. ”

    Or less than now. You’ve disregarded too many factors.
    __________

    ” Clifton won’t be resigned for sure. ”

    Or if Cliffy stays healthy the rest of 2009, he’ll be starting in 2010.
    __________

    ” A safety because God knows he won’t overpay for Collins. ”

    Or Collins will be signed to an extension before 2009 is over.
    __________

    ” so while we’ve been building, and building, we’re now going to have to rebuild all over again. Meanwhile, we’ve wasted 5 years and have nothing to show for it. ”

    MH…. do you make up all this stuff up as you go or do you get help ? ……. You really need to hit the search engines & try a factual approach (for a change)….. Just say’in…… Guessing is easy, especially for a pseudo fan ……

  • packer_bob

    Rocky, if you’re not going to demonstrate where I misquoted you, or misconstrued your words, shut up about it.

    Then call MH a ball washer and then deny you said it.

    Nobody’s ever said Woodson wasn’t a great pick up, or that TT has never done anything right. You are the master of knocking down the staw man argument. Congratulations. Next tell me that the Earth is not flat.

  • Rocky70

    ” knocking down the staw man argument. ”

    PB, slow down….. Your making very little sense again.

    staw ?? Is that a word or just you paraphrasing again? …. LOL.

  • packer_bob

    Yeah, that’s it, don’t address the point. You never have a typo, do you?

    “Dam that TT “—-OH, I guess you do.

  • roadking

    what was farves record his last year with the pack?
    what was the packs record the year after farve left?
    enough said.

  • Rocky70

    Golden Oldies #1

    From MH from back in July:

    ” But it’s time to retract Al, not gloat…if he truly was a vengeful SOB as you have accused, he would be lining up in purple in Mankato next week, despite his body telling him it’s over…but he isn’t. ”

    Last I read BF was lining up in purple come Monday night….. Can we now call BF ‘a vengeful SOB’ ?

    It’s your line, buddy.

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net Larry

    Whoa, gotcha good Matt Hayton, I see a red glow in the eastern sky!

    Careful Rocky70, he who laughs last is the one who gets it last!

  • jackson

    Yeah Rocky,

    If someone wants to pay me 25 million dollars to wear purple for two years it would not be a problem. I’m sure you could not turn it down either. You are jealous and lost your boyfriend Brett. Quit acting like a scorned woman and enjoy the game. GO PACK!

  • packer_bob

    Golden not so Oldies, since they’re from the previous thread:

    Rocky says:
    “I see MH continues to hold the crown of BF’s most avid ball-washer.”

    Then MH says: ” Call me a viking fan or a cock-licker or whatever else you like or a Brent ball sucker. Clearly, someone who has to resort to those tactics is trying to compensate for something. You’re not worth my time. ”

    Then Rocky says:
    “I never said any of this….. You’re just rewording posts again to suit your own personal issues. … Please try to be more accurrate if you ever refer to any of my posts in the future…. Thanks.”

    Can we now call Rocky a lying horse’s ass? It’s your line, buddy.

    He was pretty accurate, with one r, Rocky. Is this—accurrate–even a word? But that’s right you, don’t make typos, just point them out–LOL

  • packer_bob

    By the way, when did you turn back up Rocky? You disappeared from here in the pre, and only turned up recently. Wasn’t much Favre talk around here until you showed back up. Is that why you’re back, because we’re about to play the Vikings? He’s your magnificent obsession, isn’t he?

    So that means after this Monday’s game you’ll disappear for another month until they play again? We can only hope.

  • Matt Hayton

    PB – I don’t know why you waste your time on him.

    Larry, I have no problem admitting Favre is a vengeful SOB, because it is quite clear after last weeks’ game vs. San Fran that his only motivation. It obvious the guy, has no passion in his belly for the game. Especially the last 2 minutes, he was just going through motions “not wanting to show GB too much” because all he cares about is playing us twice. Trying selling that to Singletary and the 49ers, doubt they would agree with you.

    BTW, still no answer on how we are fixing the line…oh wait, maybe that is the answer. we’re not going to fix it this year, Larry, now are we? And you truly have nothing to say here because you cannot admit you are wrong.

  • Rocky70

    @ Larry

    ” Whoa, gotcha good Matt Hayton, I see a red glow in the eastern sky!
    Careful Rocky70, he who laughs last is the one who gets it last! ”

    You are correct….. However, some people don’t realize that what they post on the internet is there for months, years or maybe even forever….. I consider this everytime I post anything…. My ‘gotchas’ are minor & mostly benign so I’m not worried….. It’s also the reason I restrict my use of profanity & rants & raves…. Hate to read an old post of mine when I was in a bad mood……….

    The key to “Golden Oldies #1″ is the number…… My vault is full…….

    Sorry PB…………… I’ll catch you next time.

  • Rocky70

    A. Reading a post based on opinion minus the facts………………… $1

    B. Reading a post of rambling, rants & raves…………………………. $2

    C. Reading a post where someone is trying to change, alter or back-track from a post from many months ago………………………………………………

    Priceless. ………….

  • roy jamison

    I’ll miss John Madden doing the MNF game because ya know, that’s ‘jus Favre bein’ Favre…Heck, he’s actin’ like a kid out there tossin’ the ball like he was in a schoolyard which I guess he does anyway when he’s retired, or thinkin’ ’bout being retired, or jus’ waitin’ for the season to begin..ya know, after pre season which Favre doesn’t consider being meaningful time anyways…yeah that’s Favre being Favre.
    But farve better are these….www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBW7ysPcbT0
    and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6xqlY-M-aE

  • http://www.packernet.com admin

    Hey Jackson – talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Get over it already or join your alter ego Jon on the banned list.

  • Matt Hayton

    Ok…not going there. I try to be respectful to all this blog, especially the guy paying the bills…

    I did have an epiphany, though, this morning that thought I’d share with you all, that I’m sure will stoke the fire.

    I actually think all of us on here are diehard packer fans. But we disagree on philosphy of how the team should and is being run.

    My philosphy (Philopshy #1: Take Advantage of Windows of Opportunity) is to build a team through the draft but supplement it via free agency and trade in areas of weakness, including trading up in the draft for rare talent. I also believe that when you have a shot at making a SB run you need to go all out to win it then because there are no guarantees in the NFL and numerous teams without even one SB victory: Buffalo Bills, Cincinnati Bengals, Cleveland Browns, Houston Texans, Jacksonville Jaguars, Tennessee Titans, San Diego Chargers, Philadelphia Eagles, Detroit Lions, Minnesota Vikings, Atlanta Falcons, Carolina Panthers, New Orleans Saints, Arizona Cardinals, and the Seattle Seahawks. And all of these teams have been playing for atleast 10 years (including the NEW Cleveland Browns, which were refranchised in 1999). So it is quite easy to go 10 years or more without a SB win, so if you’ve got a shot, take it!

    This was Ron Wolf’s approach which led us to our last SB. And I not just saying Reggie White and BF, I’m thinking of guys like Eugene Robinson, Don Beebe and Andre Rison, Gilbert Brown, Earl Dotson, Santana Dotson, Doug Evans, Keith Jackson and Sean Jones…without the last 9 guys on this list, we don’t win that SB, it’s that simple.

    I do not believe in a “build for the future” and almost exclusively via the draft approach. I don’t think this is the best approach because:

    The average NFL contract is in the 3-6 year range, with most players not playing out that entire contract, the exception here is franchise QBs and Pro-Bowl players, who will be resigned most of the time. Meaning that your solid core team players in the approximate same age and contracts, have a 2-5 year window to win, otherwise a they won’t be resigned because they haven’t won/played well or b., they have won/played well and will make for a difficult decision to either resign that player or let them go.

    So that being said I think there is a window on any given NFL team in todays game, to win a SB in 2-4 years. There are some exceptions but this isn’t the norm (Patriots, although I think there window has closed, too).

    On the other hand (Philopshy #2: Built to Last), which many of you adhere to says: Build almost exclusively through the draft, grow your team from within, including it is prudent to trade dwon and stockpile draft picks because you increase your odds of success. And add a couple of free agents when they are bargains (Pickett, Chilllar and Woodson). But build a team for long-term success versus take advantage of the window of opportunity.

    My epiphany was that this is my problem with current packer management. I vehemently disagree with their approach. Many of you vehemently agree with the approach. My disgust with Packer mangement isn’t over them letting go of Brett Favre. My frustration is over not getting Randy Moss, trading up for AP, keeping Mike Wahle, not trading for Tony Gonzalez, not signing Matt Birk or Orlando Pace, etc.

    The other epiphany is that the Vikings adhere to Philosophy #1, while the Packers Organization employ Philosophy #2. So I am a die-hard Packer fan but not a fan of their current philosophy. I AM NOT and I REPEAT not a Viking fan, but a fan of their philosophy. The great thing is we’ll see which approach works as this unfolds this year and the next couple of years. Maybe both work, maybe neither, maybe one or the other.

    So let the games begin. Monday is the beginning of this case study as these teams, employing 2 different strategies to win a Super Bowl face-off!

  • packer_bob

    Well put, MH. It is a philosophical difference, although since I’m results oriented if TT’s approach results in a SB I’ll happily eat some humble pie. I just have strong doubts that it ever will.

    It’s like I said to Larry earlier in the thread, the Vikings looked at their team and said “This might be able to get us to the SB, how can we improve?” and went out and did it, not just in getting BF but also taking a risk in getting Harvin, and probably some other things I don’t know about. I think there is a huge mindset difference there vs. us. Our biggest FA acquisition was Anthony Smith, who we cut to keep three FB’s and Rouse.

    I think you and I agree that we still had enough talent after the 4-12 year (which followed what, 3 straight North division titles?) to re-tool and make a run at it, but chose another path. Will we look at this team next year, or the year after that, and say the time to win is now, let’s do whatever we can to make the push? I doubt it under current management.

    As far as Rocky, you’re right about ignoring him. He’s playing gotcha now with old posts, like that means anything. If I had the time, I’d look up the time he told me he wouldn’t stoop to someone else’s level in calling me packer boob, then post the multiple times he’s done it since. Since I think he’s an idiot, I guess that makes me a bigger one for trying to argue with him. As soon as you’ve nailed him, he just changes the subject anyway. Plus I’m sure people on here got bored with he and I going at it hammer and tong all the time.

    I’m going to employ your approach and let him shake his cane at whomever he wants with no response from me.

  • packer_bob

    As far as the upcoming ho-hum game, I was listening to WDUZ and picked up a fact I was unaware of. In six games vs. Dom Capers, BF is 6-0 with like a 118 QB rating and 18 TD.

    Last year, AP gashed us for 190 yards or so, and clearly he’s still priority No. 1. But is anyone else at least a little concerned about the gaudy #’s BF has posted against Capers. I wouldn’t even have guessed that he’s played a Capers D that many times. I was counting on a little unfamiliarity advantage, now I’m not so sure we have that.

  • Pack4life

    Matt I agree but only somewhat. Orlado Pace is done and trading up for AP would have been hard to do. I also dont agree with keeping Favre. Favre is a prime example of the law of diminishing returns. Favre was waffling on coming back every year then he retired. Brunell, Brooks, Hasselback all went on to produce for other teams while the Packers essentially got little in return.
    I cant stand TT’s lack of aggression we have a gaping hole at RT and nothing is being done about it. The Patriots have made 2 trades this year so dont tell me it cant be done. A serviceable RT is not too much to ask.

  • Rocky70

    I’m still po’ed about drafting Mandarich instead of Barry Sanders….. So what…….

    Wolf – 1 SB in ten ……..

    PB – the independent thinker who clears everything thru MH. ……..

    “Gotcha” keeps you honest…. It’s called accountability.

  • packer_bob

    P4L,

    I thought MH said specifically that his problem w/management wasn’t about letting BF go, it’s alot of the other things.

    Truth be told, even as big of a BF fan as I was, I had serious issues with TT before the “divorce” and even during that time my problem was mostly the way it was handled. (Before somebody puts me and BF’s genitals in the same sentence, read what Jerry Kramer had to say about it in the article on the home page.) I would have kept BF by preference last season simply because at that point I’ll take the proven commodity over the unknown one every time. But it’s over now, and moving forward this team needs youth over BF, so AR is definitely the best fit for the team now.

    Your point about the OL is well taken. Perhaps the line gels and grows together, but this far into a rebuilding project I think it’s ridiculous that they have looked so bad. They had better grow together real fast, or I don’t see much happening this year.

  • Matt Hayton

    P4L – This “non-move” to shore up RT is exactly what I am talking about. I’m lost why Levi Jones isn’t a Packer? God knows he’s better than Barbre and I don’t buy that he couldn’t switch to RT. If it’s not Levi Jones, then whoever the hell you wanna bring in. Just atleast try to fix it by doing something instead of sitting on your hands!

  • Matt Hayton

    PB -totally agree with you…

    P4L – As far as BF- Yes I was pissed when we let him go, but moreso in the how, than the what. If it wasn’t last year, it would’ve be this year or next year at the latest that we would have moved on, so I truly get that we had to move on at some point. The difference in 2008 vs. 2010 doesn’t matter.

    Honestly, what bothered me the most was the fact that WE DIDN’T MAKE ANOTHER RUN with him inbetween 2005-2007, when Tausch, Cliffy, Harris, Woodson, etc. were all still in their primes.

    But the trend continues with TT, which is what really pisses me off- he’s not making a run this year either, as well, by not bringing in Pace, Birk, Gonzalez or Levi Jones, now…

    I think Favre got sick of being good but never feeling like we had all the pieces in place to win a SB, who knows, maybe 4 or 5 years from now AR will get sick of it, too. And sign somewhere to try and win a SB if we continue down this path…wonder if everyone who hates Favre now for doing this, would hate AR, if he does the same thing.

  • packer_bob

    MH,

    “I think Favre got sick of being good but never feeling like we had all the pieces in place to win a SB”

    Don’t forget, though, that Favre himself commented a year or so prior to the 2007 season that he felt he was surrounded by as much talent as they had on the Super Bowl team since the 90’s, so I’m not sure what to think his take on that is. I think he also made comments here and there since 2005 about being too old to be on re-building team. Guess we’ll have to wait for the book.

    It actually precedes TT, also. I remember reading an interview with Ron Wolf where he was asked about his biggest regret. He said it was not surrounding BF with more talent so they could win more than one SB. Those were Wolf’s words, not mine.

  • Pack4life

    The Vikes have renamed their stadium Mall of America Field starting Monday. This is what the BF sweepstakes has to do with. Dollars

  • Rocky70

    Golden Oldies #2

    From MH from back in May:

    ” And if any of you are wondering…if Favre puts on a Vikings jersey, that to me would be vengeful and selfish and as much as I think he was wronged by the Packers, that is far worse to hold onto a personal vendetta and make 52 guys subject to you settling the score with your former GM…I hope we beat the hell out of him and the queens… ”

    Still feel the same way today?…. Just wondering.

    It’s your line, buddy.

  • http://www.cmswi.com Kevin

    Jesus dude that jackson guy who posted above must have it in 4 you. Whats wrong with Packer fans. Favre was booted out of Green bay plain and simple. We choose not to retain him and traded him to the Jets. Now for all you people that sucked Brett Favre’s dick for 16 years cant stand him because he still wants to play. I say bullshit, and none of you must love the game as Favre does. We will never see in our lifetime a quarterback as great as Favre. Last I checked Rodgers record as a starter was 8-11. Shit he wont even be a 500 quarterback yet this year in the league. Hopefully Monday night we can keep Rodgers upright so we can have a chance to win.

  • http://Orlando Mark

    Kevin, I’m sorry to say this but most of your comments about #4 have to be put in past tense. He WAS one of the greats. #12 is the better QB right now. If the Vikes win it will be due to superior talent on that team. A lot of the fascination of watching him now is waiting for a train wreck. His arm seems ok and he can read defenses but he can’t avoid a strong rush. And I can’t see him taking the punishment from all those sacks much longer. It will be worse when he has to play in bad weather. The only chance the Vikes had to keep him healthy was to limit his throws. But as you can see he threw 46 times last week, pretty stupid.

  • jackson

    Sorry Al, my last post was out of line. But I had numerous non-offensive posts deleted that really made my point and I feel that it made some of the Favre haters look bad resulting in censorship. I appreciate you not censoring me lately and was wondering what I have to do to donate money to the site to keep it going. Just please don’t delete people’s posts. If they want to make an ass out of themselves, or make others look bad with facts, leave the post up. Peace. By the way, I can still be a Packer fan and admire Favre for all he has done for football in general. Email or post how I can donate to the cause. Go Pack and keep it going Al. Lastly, Rocky, you are really in need of professional help. The anger is going to kill you. GO PACK!

  • Rocky70

    Sorry, “Action Jackson” but Al is smarter than to fall for your ‘sincere’ apology.

    “…… to donate money to the site to keep it going ……….. Email or post how I can donate to the cause…………. ”

    Hilarious….. Do it Al. …. And don’t make it cheap either…. In fact, get money from all of his aliases ………. You could set yourself up thru 2010………. if he pays up.

  • jackson

    @ Rockhead,

    You are so sick and angry that everyone on this site has called you out one time or another. I just want to show my true appreciation to this site and know there is a place on the home page to donate. However, I just want to know the protocol and best way to go about it. However, someone as sick as you would not even consider this. It is an olive branch to show my appreciation as most here have been posting much longer than you when you popped up about a year ago with you little, irrelavant posts. You are so sick and angry, old man, it is one of the first signs of Alzheimer’s disease. I bet your Viagra no longer works but don’t take it out on everyone else. God bless you and the Green Bay Packers. I will pray for you or should I say prey for you!
    And quit kissing Al’s ass, it is not becoming of you.

  • Rocky70

    Interesting tidbits about the upcoming game:

    In the six Minnesota contests over the past three seasons (2006-08), the Vikings have started five different quarterbacks. …….. BF is expected to become the sixth different Vike QB to face the Packers since 2006.

    Few rivalries in sports have had more parity……. The Packers own a slight advantage over the Vikings (49-46-1, including playoffs) in the all-time series.

    Including the first division game played in the ’09 season, the Packers own the best division mark over the three-plus seasons of McCarthy’s tenure at 14-5……. The Packers are trailed by Chicago (12-7) and then Minnesota (10-9) over that period.

    How close has this series been?…… Going back aways, 12 of the last 13 regular-season meetings have been decided by seven points or less, the lone exception being the Packers’ 34-0 blanking of the Vikings in 2007 at Lambeau Field.

  • Rocky70

    @ ‘Action Jackson”

    LOL……
    I was looking for a good laugh before I called it a day.
    You’ve provided it……….. Thanks much… ……………..LOL.

  • jackson

    @rockethead69

    Is that the best you have got? I shall move on as you are not a worthy of my time or intellect. Seems as if others on this site are doing the same. You are done…see ya.

  • jackson

    ooops! you are not worthy of my time…..one too many homebrews. Peace/out

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net Larry

    Hard for some of you to believe, but TT is doing just what Wolf did. Build thru the draft and supplement w/ FAs. Once Wolfe had his leadership on O and D he brought in Jackson, Jones, and Dotson because those were the final pieces in the puzzle (ah, Rison, the final one).
    Well, face it, there is no REGGIE out there and we are more than one OT away so its not like one FA is going to bring the Lombardi back. Hence, the continued reliance on the draft.
    Last time I looked Moss, Peterson, Gonzalez, Birk, and Pace are all playing for different teams and Wahle isn’t in the league. Are you suggesting any one of those players would have brought the title back-don’t think so. If your plan was to have all of them there wouldn’t be any $ left to pay the other (40).
    You postulate, demand, and question. I respond, substantiate, and answer. You then reword, misinterpret, and ask the same question again. Its pointless to re-respond to a closed mind. The problems of the team are obvious as are the solutions, but the how to – there is the dilemma. I’ll leave that to the Troika, as I do know they have a lot more data than I have to go on…….!

  • http://www.packernet.com admin

    New post and prediction coming tonight. This has been a fun week. I thought it would be horrible, but the fact is, the Vikings don’t scare me – #4 or no #4.

  • Rocky70

    @ Larry

    There are repercussions to all personal moves made by an NFL team…. For the most part, fans haven’t a clue as to what these repercussions are….. They have an attitude of ‘just do it’ as if that is the only consideration at hand … It’s a narrow uninformed approach that would get most if not all of NFL brass fired down the line… Al Davis of Oakland uses this approach… It doesn’t seem to work either…..

    Fans are also, unfortunately, patsies of the media…. They latch on to some article written by a ‘beat reporter’ as if his insight is gold…. When, in reality, this media member has no more access than the average fan.

    ….. If more PackFans scrutinized another team as much as they nit-picked the Pack, they would find that every NFL team has it’s deficiences…. They develope attitudes based on a narrow view of just one team when in reality the success or failure of the Pack is largely based on what 31 other teams are doing or not doing…. It’s disappointing to realize that so many who post here are as closed minded as they appear….. Why else would so much ‘doom & gloom’ exist on this blog…. Last I looked, the Pack is 2-1 & playing for 1st place come Monday night…..

  • Rocky70

    @ Al

    ” I can’t wait for Favre’s lies during his conference call with local reporters this week, that will be Comedy Central material right next to his contrived first retirement presser. ”

    I’ll have to give you credit for this call…… I listened to BF’s presser with the locals & really thought he’d fess-up at least a little….. He didn’t…… He was defensive, stammered when pressed, avoided questions & retracked previous comments … It was embarrassing & disappointing ……………. Not everyone falls for his act but he doesn’t seem to realize this fact.

  • Matt Hayton

    Larry-

    The point isn’t that TT would have made all of the moves, but one or two of them. But your mind, and don’t fool yourself, which is just as closed as mine is, doesn’t get that a couple of these moves would have already made us much closer to SuperBowl than we currently are. As far as Thompson being on the same page as Wolf, we would need to win a SB next year.

    Highly doubt that will happen but if it does, I will gladly eat crow and celebrate winning a SB title, but in your own words “we are more than an OT away”. Which is where we will always be if we stick to this gameplan? Larry when do you just go for broke and try and make moves to win a SB? Don’t you atleast agree that there is a window of opportunity and at some time you have to put the “final pieces in place”?

    Or is that just too open-minded for you to consider? Goes both ways, now doesn’t it…

  • Matt Hayton

    What’s ironic is that of all the players mentioend above: Moss, Peterson, Gonzalez, Birk, Pace and Wahl, all except one of the teams, (which is now a move, 5 years in the past), are arguably closer to a SuperBowl than we are: Patriots (already been there assisted by Moss acquistion), Vikings, Falcons, Ravens, and Bears…being the exception, although they’ve played quite well since week 1, so even that is a toss-up. And Carolina went to a NFC Championship game w/Mike Wahl.

    But I’m sure this is too speculative for you…

    To me this is more of a case study than anything else…history will be the answer. Larry, I might very well be wrong here. Maybe building through the draft almost exclusively si the way to go and we’ll start hoisting Lombardi trophies year after year. I know it is probably hard for you to believe, but I really want the same thing as you do, which is for the Pack to win a championship or two in the next decade.

    And if TT were to start adding pieces to put us over the top via free agency or trade, I would be happy as a clam. What you are saying he will do is what I am asking for.

    And by the way, all of Wolf’s acquisition’s weren’t made in ’96. Guys like Earl Dotson, Keith Jackson, Gilbert, Sean Jones, Doug Evans and of course, Reggie and Favre, were all already there. In ’96 he brought in Desmond Howard, Rison, Beebe and Robinson. If TT would bring in 4 key contributors next year, I’d do back flips!

  • Rocky70

    @ MH

    ” Which is where we will always be if we stick to this gameplan? ”

    Throughout most of your posts, you seem to think you know the gameplan….. The gameplan you know is your own…. You are only guessing as to the gameplan used by the Packer Brass…. Just like every fan, you only have information presented to you that you can then digest, analyze & then spew out an opinion….. You’ll take this as a criticism on my part but I’m only presenting to you what’s true for all fans….

    It would be easier to give you credit for some of your ideas if it wasn’t so obvious that your ideas are motivated by other considerations …….. BTW, I only post in hopes of people reading the posts….. I don’t post to elicit responses.

  • Rocky70

    ” ……Moss, Peterson, Gonzalez, Birk, Pace and Wahl ……. ”

    Just think it & then just do it………….. Like in Madden 2010.

    Real life is much more complicated ……………. especially in the NFL.

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net Larry

    Perhaps there is a practical way to prove the implausibility of your premise, Matt Hayton. My response is consistant and can be countered easily. All you have to do is cost out your solutions, in any combination; the data is readily available with a little research which you do all the time. Tell me the impact that the Wolf moves had on the salary cap, then tell me the impact that your desired moves would have on the TT cap. By the way, I’ll give you all the $ you want but you’ve got to stay within the cap. Also, while you’re at it I want a guarantee. You might have a hard time bringing back REGGIE, however.

  • Rocky70

    Gotta love AJ Hawk’s attitude about his QB:

    “Any type of adversity builds your team up and brings you together. I don’t know if you call this adversity – it’s Week 4 for us, and there’s a long season ahead – but it’s the Vikings, it’s Monday Night Football, and it’s all kind of set up for us. We’re going to fight for four quarters because Aaron’s everything that our quarterback should be.”

    “I was answering these kind of questions about Aaron’s leadership a lot last year,” Hawk said. “But the bottom line is, Aaron never needed to earn our respect. I think he had it from how he handled himself when Brett was in Green Bay and when Brett tried to come back. And then after the trade, he was playing so good – people talked about our losing record, but he was the reason we stayed in every single one of those [close] games we didn’t win.

    “We’ve been behind Aaron the whole time, and I think the front office showed him they were behind him, too, when the stuff was going on with Brett. So I think he knows we’ve got his back.”

  • packer_bob

    Just thought I’d throw this in, since Orlando Pace’s name has been brought up. Some seem to think he may have been a help to our O-line, some seem to think he has been a mistake.

    I live near Chicago so I listen to alot of Chi sports radio. This morning’s show they were talking about the Bears and the lack of a running game, and a fan called in bitching about Pace. The consensus amonst the two announcers was that Pace is better and more athletic now then he was in game one, that it didn’t break the bank to bring him in, and that he is an upgrade over what they had. Evidently the guy he replaced wanted some big money, so the Bears let him go to Cleveland where he has given up 3.5 sacks. Pace has given up a 1/2 sack, and the Bears also brought in some other Tackle to be swing man and be available as a replacement.

    Just wanted to give you guys some insight into what the Chicago media thinks of the Pace acquisition (and believe me, they’d crucify him if they thought he was a joke) and give an example of how a relatively low dollar pick up can help. I’ll grant that the decision makers have access to more info than we ever will, but let’s not use that fact as an excuse to say they shouldn’t have made a move. In all the personnel bandied about here lately, some other teams did make the move, so that means TT is smart and they are morons? Kind of a homer attitude, in my opinion.

  • packer_bob

    “he has been a mistake”—I mean would have been a mistake.

  • Rocky70

    Orlando Pace signed with the Bears….. He made that decision.

    I would have loved to see Pace as a Packer.

    Just because a team or a fan may want a specific player doesn’t mean that’s the deal clincher………. Wanting & getting are two different animals…….. In the end, the FA player decides where he’s going to play ….. No one knows if GB had any interest at all in Pace ……… If they did, it didn’t matter, evidently.

  • roy jamison

    Here’s a chant for Monday Night. “Close the door on number 4!”

  • O’Jeff

    I speak only for myself and my own abilities. But as far as my football knowledge goes, Rocky and Larry are entirely right in some of these statements. I don’t know the gameplan. I’m just a fan, and something of a casual one to be honest. I don’t own tickets. I rarely go to games. I only read a few articles a week, and I don’t watch the full NFL. I suppose Rocky’s right. I can’t honestly get into the details of individual acquisitions. I simply lack the knowledge.

    But I can see the team results.

    Here’s the premise. The players are responsible for games. The leadership is responsible for seasons – especially multiple seasons. If the players don’t get it done, it’s up to the coaches to teach them, prep them and use them better, and if necessary, it’s up to the GM to replace them.

    Thus – a team’s long term record is a reflection of how good a job the leadership is doing. I think that’s pretty solid logic. Any disagreements to this point? Moving on.

    History –
    RW and MH – take over miserable team and never post a losing record
    Ray Rhodes – 1 split season and gone
    Mike Sherman(GM) – 0 losing seasons, 5 winning, and replaced
    Mike Sherman(HC) – 5 winning seasons, 1 losing and gone

    Ted Thompson – 2 losing seasons, 1 split, 1 win
    Mike McCarthy – 1 losing season, 1 split, 1 win

    Now, Ted and Mike have my support this year – not that it matters. But the die is cast, and I think you have to dance with the ones you brought. Regardless of my opinions, I would not be in favor of a midseason replacement – absolute horror show for the team. (Barring something freaky like a sudden 9 game losing streak.)

    At the end of the season however, if we can’t even get past 8-8, would you agree that would indicate less than steller long term performance by our leadership and merit at least consideration of a change – if the right person or people are available and would come to GB? Not a big fan of change for change’s sake.

  • packer_bob

    I think that’s a pretty fair assessment, O’jeff. I’m not in favor of change for change’s sake either. I’ve said, and continue to say, that if we post a winning record, I think current leadership deserves another year. Otherwise, I think I’m ready to move on.

    Maybe this team pulls it together, who knows? I remember the one season under Sherman where we started 1 and 3 or 1and 4 and still won the division. We’ve all seen teams that started 3-0 or 4-0 and went into a tailspin, so the future of this season is yet unwritten.

    If I end up seeing the same old same old we saw much of last year, and so far that’s exactly how I feel despite our record, this year, I’m in favor of some heads rolling. Maybe just one head rolling, maybe just change the HC, I don’t know. There’s some good ones out there.

    Anyway, it’s all just speculation at this point. I just get a little worried about the prospects of a team that can’t run, protect the Qb or stop the run. Maybe we get those problems solved, but if we don’t we won’t be successful and someone has to go imo.

    We’re all just fans, obviously none of us has any influence or inside information. I don’t think that means that we shouldn’t express our opinions though. As you said, the end product is there for all of us to see and comment on.

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net Larry

    O’Jeff, you’re going to destroy the blog with that logic; we won’t have anything to argue about! Right on, I’ll buy in. Caviat, however, its got to depend on what’s available – to repeat your wrap, no change just for the sake of change.

  • roy jamison

    Don’t understand why number 4 was so curt with his answers to Wisconsin sports guys on Thursday. Maybe his ego is far bigger than I ever imagined.

  • http://www.packernet.com admin

    The only way Thompson and/or McCarthy get fired after this year is if the Packers go 2-14, and that ain’t happening. Might as well save your breath on this one.

  • packer_bob

    That’s part of the problem Al. So by your own admission we could 6-10 this year and their jobs are still safe. I just ask why. Who anointed these guys royalty?

    Whether you’re right or wrong about that, it shouldn’t matter as far as commenting on it, btw. If we don’t look very good, I think we should call them out about it whether it has any impact or not.

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net Larry

    Unlikely either are gone, but I’d bet MM would go before TT.

  • Rocky70

    ” The only way Thompson and/or McCarthy get fired after this year is if the Packers go 2-14, and that ain’t happening. Might as well save your breath on this one. ”

    Geez, don’t say this……… we’d have to lose our last 13 games to do this…….. I’d end up having to follow the NHL to fill in the NFL season….. and I like Pro Hockey like a stick in the eye ………

    On the other hand, I believe MM & TT are joined at the hip…. If either were fired due to team performance, both would be gone in the same 24 hour period…… I put the onus on MM at this point………. He’s got his 53 or so & it’s his job to produce a winner with what he has….. Once the season begins, the only player movement is usually coming from the scrapheap…. No one gives up good players during the season.

    IMO, would 6-10 get them fired ?…….. No. ….. but it might cause them to jump deeper into free agency in 2010 or you may see more player movement via trades, releases, etc….. Depending on the results of the upcoming CBA, GB can’t help but have more player movement after this season………. They will lose some players to FA…. they will have to fill those roster spots somehow.

    TT’s approach to the draft in 2009 was different & unexpected by most…. You may find his approach to free agency in 2010 to also be radically different in 2010…. To pigeon-hole any GM as this or that is usually a mistake…..

  • Jeff

    I agree with your statement about the draft, but I think the reason we can say Ted Thompson’s draft was different and unexpected is because there had been a pattern established of trading down to accumulate picks.

    Tell you the truth, I like the plan. I like this year’s first round. I’m just getting a touch bit impatient waiting for results. I confess – I got used to winning. Every appearance is that Matthews has it. He’s already shows as much as Poppinga ever has in my opinion. Raji needs to get on the field, but I don’t think there’s any way you can hold Thompson for that.

    Damn! I love this time of year! Where the hell is Monday when you need it?