Packernet's View Fallout over loss to Vikings is over the top «

Fallout over loss to Vikings is over the top

Man, you would think the Packers lost the Super Bowl. Apparently Packers’ fans have forgot how hard it actually hurt to lose the Super Bowl after the 1997 season because losing to the Vikings in October is not even close. If it wasn’t for Brett Favre this game would have been just another in long history of disasters in Metrodome, and really, this game was a good game. The Packers have nothing to hang their heads about and their playoff hopes were not dashed Monday night, no matter how hard it was losing to Favre. In fact, I think this will make the Packers stronger.

I know I predicted a Packers’ victory and tried to point out all the reasons the Packers could win the game but in the end I knew it was a tall order. Still, the Packers were in great position to steal one until Donald Lee dropped a pass in the endzone. It’s a whole different game if Lee hangs on. Do the Packers have some problems to correct? You bet. Did they make some bad decisions? No doubt, but this is still a good football team. The Packers have the players they just have to find out if they have the right coach.

Almost like Ron Wolf and Mike Holmgren, Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy have put their careers on the line by sticking with Aaron Rodgers when Favre changed his mind last year. I mean really, if Favre really loved to play the game so much why was it so hard for him to decide to play every year for the last five years? The Packers had to make a decision for the future and did so. Rodgers has done nothing yet to prove it wasn’t the right decision. Favre didn’t win a Super Bowl his first year as a starter, in fact, and I’m counting 1992, it took him five years. I think in all fairness we should give Rodgers two years before we label him a bust.

I believe the Packers this year have been faced with some unexpected circumstances and while I wish the won-loss record was one game better, I can’t complain too bad. The two teams they lost to are a combined 7-1 and should be 8-0 if not for a fluke play. The Packers have not been blown out and even with the struggles on the offensive line have still been able to make big plays. Yes, in my game blog, I was worried against the Rams, but that lasted about three minutes as the Packers dominated in the end.

I am not worried at all right now, the Packers have a favorable schedule with the Lions and Browns the next two games, followed by the Vikings at home, at Tampa Bay and at home against the Cowboys. Anything other than 4-1 during that stretch will be a disappointment. All I know is I’m not throwing in the towel nor am I calling for people to be fired with three-fourths of the season to be played. I mean, who would have thought the Cardinals would have made the Super Bowl last year?

Do the Packers have problems? Yes. Does Aaron Rodgers need to take the next step? Yes. Are these problems correctable? Yes. Have I watched too much Seinfeld? Yes.

Left tackle Chad Clifton will be back for the Lions and I’m hoping the Packers sign Mark Tauscher and get him ready to start at least by the Browns game. He will need a full game I think before facing the Vikings the following week. I don’t want to sound stupid, or any more stupid than I normally am, but I think the return of Tauscher can be a huge lift not only on the line but in the locker room. Now if we just get him back on “Tuesday Night Touchback”.

Come on people, let’s look at what we can do now and worry about the off-season during the off-season. I still think this is a good football team, they just need to find out who they are. Is it a “West Coast Offense” or is it a “Let’s get vertical” offense? Is the defense going to pressure the QB or not? Both sides need to make up their minds and commit to it. I say reel in Rodgers and stick with the short stuff knowing he’ll hit the bomb when it’s there. Move the chains. On defense I think Dom Capers needs to commit to his defense for good or bad and let them loose on the QB. Capers’ fear of Brett Favre, which we saw Packers’ opponents succumb to for 16 years was the main reason the Packers lost Monday night. Time to let them play.

The bye week came at a great time for the Packers, Cliffy will be back, Bigby will back, even some guy named Jackson might be back, so step off the ledge, cut the rope, unload the gun, barf up the pills, we’re not done yet.

This entry was posted on Thursday, October 8th, 2009 at 10:51 pm and is filed under Al Davis. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

Kevin

I’m loving the optimism. I feel much the same way. We saw in the preseason what this team is capable of, they just need to start firing on all cylinders.
Matt Hayton

Ok. I just put my rose-colored glasses on. I agree with you, Al. Both you and I saw a very gpd looking team in training camp, back when AR and Flynn were flingin’ ringers into that basket! Think Tausch, could be a huge lift-sign him already TT. Hate for a contender to lose a RT to an injury and make His decision, tougher…Also, with the addition of getting Cliffy and Bigby back, we have addressed the 3 weakest spots on our team. Gotta keep our fingers crossed that all 3 of them stay healthy and I think 9-7 is still very attainable. 10-6, would playing insane and 11-5 would make me a believer! BTW- I voted for us to go to the playoffs in the last poll, as any true packer fan should’ve!
http://Orlando Mark

All kinds of true Packer fans M-H. Optimists, pessimists and even a few who swing wildly back and forth. But I don’t think you have to be especially optimistic to agree with Al that we should win 4 or 5 in a row. And, that would give us a chance to overcome a tough late schedule.
zach

The last paragraph made me laugh….thanks Al.
AATP

Thanks Al for the satire there at the end – I think we all could use some light comedic gestures – usually look to p_b for that… The Pack will be fine, it will say a lot more about the coaching then the team I think. “We have the technology”.
Larry

Al, you’re right on with your assessment. The fixation with Favre needs to stop and recognition that the team has the potential to make the playoffs is a distinc possibility.
Rodgers is a top tier QB…that needs to throw the ball away 2 or 3 times a game to save the sacks. That’s the only change needed…and if I recall that’s exactly what BF was as a young kid in the 90′s. A return to the more traditional west coast system on first and second down will leave him with 3rd and 2 endless possibilities.
Mark Troy

Pick up 3 victories in a row, gain revenge on the Vikqueen’s in November – an uplifting experience for the Pack! All negativism will be gone.
Pete H

The only thing I would say is that, other than a small few, I think everyone is in agreement that Rodgers is the real deal. Pointing out what we see as things he needs to be better at doesn’t mean we believe he is a bust. He is till pretty new and will have mistakes, and maybe I have been overly critical, but much of my criticism rides on the line. My concern is that even last year Clifton got benched a few times for inneffectiveness. Rodgers is just gonna flat out get killed if they don’t drastically improve. Still, to be able to move the ball as they did was impressive. I still have high expectations for this team. They have equally as much talent as the Vikes, and the Bears are winning like they always do..with smoke and mirrors.
http://jlworden1suddenlink.net Larry

I do not like the apparent change from the West Coast to the Raider Bomb offense. I cannot understand why we can’t make the Zone blocking scheme work ala Denver (who made it look so easy). Why can’t a TE chip and catch a five-yarder both?

Why don’t we use Kampy strictly on 3rd and passing situations, like Dallas and SF did w/ Haley? Get off Poppinga’s back. Thompson will make the LBs better. Now that Matthews appears healthy look for the pass rush to improve.

Lions a pushover which will remind you of the Pre-season. MIN has PIT. Tauscher will put Barbre on the bench, but I’ve not given up on him until I’m convinced the “nasty” has been taken out of him.

My 5-1 Div and 10-6 overall still reachable, but in a reverse order than I predicted.
http://jlworden1suddenlink.net Larry

Also, I didn’t write that 6:30 post, but could have; it sounds like me! Wasn’t up quite that early today.
http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

Don’t want to go thru the “Punk” routine again so will be LarryTex from now on, if anybody cares.
PackerPete

Only punks change thier names… LOL!!

I suppose that the “imposter” Larry posting will have to also change his screen name now, let me make a suggestion based on Larrys new screen name… Co-Tex!

On to the facts…

Rodgers is very far ahead of Favre on the development continuum. At this stage of his career, Favre was throwing ints instead of taking sacks, really… which would you rather have, a longer down and distance situation or turn the ball over? Favre never grew out of it, Rodgers should, he has the intelligence, nuff said.

Here is a tipping point. If TT does not sign Taush, and I mean right f’ing now, it says volumes about his ego and doing the right thing for this team. If he continues down the “getting Rodgers killed ” road instead of steadying this offense with a little veteran influence, there can be only one result. The questions on the philosophy of having every one of a teams players in diapers forever will either prove itself with a playoff birth and at least one victory or the plan to be youngest forever will need to be revised in a big way, if you can smell what is on PackerPete’s stove…
http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

Yeah, PackerPete, that from a guy who’s initials are PeePee. Game on!

Fact one, right on. The ego thing is a red herring and doesn’t make sense because an over exercised ego can ruin a career and TT is not dumb. He maybe stubborn, until all the bases are covered before a move, but not signing Tausch (and the release) would have only been for medical reasons only.

So, whats on the stove might smell OK, but you won’t know how good it is until you taste it. Admitidly the youth movement doesn’t taste too good yet.
packer_bob

Al,

You may be the master of overkill. Who is this person that compared the Viking’s loss to the Super Bowl loss? I was sick for a week after that loss. Comparing those two games would be a joke, but more importantly, I haven’t read anybody say that, at least not in this blog. Please don’t use hyperbole to overstate what’s actually being said.

The blowback from this loss is a result of two things in my mind: 1.) The fact that many of the problems in that loss weren’t isolated occurences, they’ve been going on all season and 2.) Heightened expectations following the superb pre-season showing.
If you were expecting the Pack to go 6-10 again this year or thought they would be a mediocre 8-8 at best, then I guess you’re not too surprised about the record to this point. Many of us were expecting some improvement, some of us cuz we thought we were a better team than we showed last year, some cuz we thought we made great moves offseason like Capers and the draft, some (like myself) maybe got a little oversold on the pre season.

Some people were on here chirping about 4-0 heading into the bye, playoffs, maybe a deep run, even (dare I say it?) a trip to the Super Bowl. We’ve got serious problems that have been exposed, and so the crash headlong into the brick wall of reality is to be expected. Should all the posts about the Pack be gushing with compliments right now?

Having said that, I don’t see any of the regulars around here giving up on the season.
I think we all know what the problems are thus far, and I’m willing to judge the team on how it moves forward on correcting those problems from here. It seems all of us are, judging by what I’ve read which is why I’m surprised you seem so freaked about what you perceive to be the reaction to this one game.
Rocky70

Not so much the fans, but the media did paint the loss to the Vikings as proportional to ‘losing a SuperBowl’. ………………. The locals out of Madison even used the term ‘like losing the SuperBowl’…………. I could only laugh.

Even though I’d rather play the Lions than most teams after the bye, I’m still nervous about the Lions…………. They’re a better football team than 2008…….. Even though the final scores in 2008 made it look like GB thrashed the Lions, the Pack didn’t have either game put away until the fourth quarter……….. Stafford to Johnson can be a lethal combination plus Kevin Smith is no slouch at RB when healthy……………..

Raji, Bishop & Matthews need to start & play the majority of snaps on the D……… This means MM has to have the balls to sit some higher draft picks & veterans………….. IMO, it’s a key to the season………..
jonnyfootballhero

“Raji, Bishop & Matthews need to start & play the majority of snaps on the D……… This means MM has to have the balls to sit some higher draft picks & veterans………….. IMO, it’s a key to the season………..”

Amen brother!! Time to nut-up or shut-up MM. Start doing what’s best for the team and not what’s best for a high priced starters ego…
AATP

Hey, what happened to my ESPN link post I put up here? Admin? Did you delete something? It was a pretty good read and you deleted it? Did you read it first before jumping to the “remove” button?
http://www.packernet.com admin

That train has left the station.
Matt Hayton

Ok got my realist glasses on today…

Think 7-9 is probably about where we’ll end up. For 3 reasons:

1. The more I think about it, the more I’m not sure Tauscher is the answer (he’s not the Tauscher of 3-5 years ago) and I have my doubts that Clifton, Tausch and Bigby will all be able to remain healthy the rest of the season, given their injury pasts. Bottom line is that these 3 positions are killing us and aside from a trade or a magic waiver wire transaction or two, which our GM doesn’t believe in… I am not sure how we fix those spots so that they don’t continue to cost us ballgames. Really we are banking on all 3 coming back, playing at a high level and miraculously staying healthy the rest of the way…I don’t like our odds that that will happen. Which would again leave us vulnerable in one or more of those 3 spots, which I would expect teams to continue to exploit us, as they have so far.

2. I also think we are lacking a pass rush and Kampman either needs to put his hand down or be traded. Doubt either will happen. A lack of pass rush was a large reason why the defense struggled and faltered late in games last year, not sure if I am seeing a big difference so far this year. Same guys but in a different scheme, with the pretty much the same result as last year thus far. As we are only marginal better than last year 17th vs pass; 18th vs. run respectively.

3. Lastly, I also think that AR holding the ball too long is becoming a real problem. In 2007 Favre was responsible for 3 sacks. Last year Rodgers was responsible for 9 and 1/2 sacks. Here is a source for this and other packer stats: http://www.packerforum.com/packer-fan-forum/15276-numbers-dont-lie-packers-2008-a.html

Last week he was responsible for 4, and 2 the week before in St. Louis, by my account. I think this is growing problem he is having. The line in front of him is only part of the problem. He is making a subpar line, look worse by failing to get rid of the ball. I think he has lost confidence in his line and has gotten happy feet because of it, allah David Carr. Hope he can get that fixed, but if not, I think our offense will continue to be out of synch as his knack for taking sacks is starting to kill alot of drives, which as a result takes points off the board…

All of this being said, I think we’ll probably lose some games we shouldn’t because of these problems and not beat the better competition we face, resulting in another losing season…
Reid

I have seen several comments about when we played the Rams this year, the Lions last year, etc and how the game wasn’t put away until the 4th quarter or late in the game. People are using this as a reflection of our capabilities as a team. I would challenge this – How many teams have games put away “early”? A few already this year that probably should have been put away “early” and weren’t: Vikes/Browns, Bears/Lions, Cowboys/Panthers, more… We put the Bears away early last year, but I can’t think of many games where the outcome is determined early unless there’s a bunch of turnovers and defensive/special teams scores. Heck, a lot of games where 1 team gets ahead early end up closer at the end when the “prevent nothing” defense takes over.

I challenge that this is the NFL and on “any given Sunday”. There are very few teams who are able to put games away early, no matter who they are playing. Especially this early in the season when other teams are still trying to make their mark.
4205

Agree with the Matthews / Raji assessment, but with the pass happy NFL, don’t think Bishop will work long term. Hawk haters abound, but he and Barnett are still the best options. Hawk seems to be less rote this year and more instinctive. Barnett still recovering, but getting closer each week. One week off will help a lot – If 4-1 happens over next six weeks GB will be back in the playoff hunt – which is all I ask for this time of year.
Rocky70

Reid – you’re right……… very few games are ‘over & done’ by half or even the 3rd quarter……..

MH …….. you’ve conveniently left out many factors & only chose those that support your predicted 7-9 record………….. Therefore, your take on the season is pretty much invalid …………… However, I will give you credit for ‘finally’ dropping how the sun would start rising in the West if GB had ‘only’ drafted AP. signed Wahle, Rivera, etc………….. That sure got old …..fast.
packer_bob

Perhaps some media did report that game as akin to losing a SB, but I’d sure to like to see it. And I don’t mean some drunk fan that got a microphone shoved his in face right after the game, either.

I watched mucho coverage the night and day after the game, read all the links here, read all the comments here, etc. Was the media mayber a little over excited about Favre’s performance? Perhaps, but then I expect it would have went the other way if he had thrown a bunch of picks. In fact, it would have been hilarious to hear some of the comments from some of you had he been the one to take 8 sacks and turn the ball over twice.

At any rate, I never saw this panic mode or “let’s pack it in and learn how to forfeit” stuff Al is talking about. I’m too lazy to look it up, but I suspect if I did, I wouldn’t real proud of where our scoring D is ranked right now, or our yards per carry rushing, or our overall D. I know where we’re ranked in sacks. That being the case, I’m not sure why Al or anybody else would think that all the discussion and comments would be sweetness and light.

The upside is the turnovers we’re creating, I’m guessing our scoring O is probably top 10 and passing O probably looks pretty good. You balance it all out, and we are a mediocre team. That doesn’t mean we can’t improve. We should be getting some players back and hopefully others will step up. As I said earlier, I’m willing to let it play out and see what the results are. But to me it’s 50/50 as to whether we improve or injuries and some of these recurring problems send us into a tailspin like last year. Our biggest asset right know is a spate of winnable games coming up.

On a different note, if some of you think our best players aren’t playing, on defense or anywhere else, that is a terrible indictment of our current coaching staff, imo.
25 Yrs Pack(new)

I have never commented before, although i have been reading for a couple years now. There is endless finger poiting going on, I will not dare mention anyone not currently employed by Wisconsin’s Green Bay Packers. It is has been over a year now of close defeats. Wins somehow being snatched from our players. There is an old saying that players lose blowouts, and coaches lose close games. Even if one bad play from a player “loses” the game, there most likely could have been a better game plan put forth to avoid such a close call. I will give management and coaches the benefit of the doubt that the starters are executing what is being coached and game planned. (You really dont think MM etc are putting in guys who they dont think are doing the best job outside of game day do you?) With this being said, I do not think our young players are being groomed and coached right. Coaching can turn good players into great players, or Vic a Versa. When you dont look at individual players skills and telents, and just look at them as fillers in a scheme, this is what happens. If you think A-Rod is holding the ball too long, shouldn’t MM being coaching him up all week to get it out? If not hes not doing his job. If the O-Line isnt holding block or picking up the blitz, shouldnt all week be dedicating to fixing that? There is a coaching problem in Green Bay, quit singling out players, these are young guys what want to suceed (their livelyhoods depend on it) and are doing what they are told. Unless they are traitors to the team planted by others, they are not being coached correctly.
Rocky70

Anything that happens or doesn’t happen on the field is on the coaching staff……… All 32 NFL teams operate this way…………….

Living in Wisconsin allows one to get a much broader view of the locals’ attitude………. It’s closer to what Al is saying than you might believe…….. The local rags in Wisconsin have always been ‘negative nancies’ since the ‘great one’ was shown the door……………… The local media likes to keep the debate alive…………. It increases their advertising revenue…………. It’s a money thing.
roy jamison

Al, I think you are right about several things. The bye week couldn’t have come at a better time. I have no doubt Rodgers is the right choice at qb and I believe that with the return of Tauscher, this team can be pretty good. I still believe they can go 9-7 or maybe 10-6. You always lose some you should have won and win some you shoulda lost. I think the special teams area has improved vastly which is a big plus. And I think Nelson may be a better kickoff guy than Blackmon was. Hopefully the return of Bigby can put a little more backbone into the secondary which has been beat up. But, we’re still gonna have to find a way to get pressure on the passer, that is certainly a work in progress.
packer_bob

“Living in Wisconsin allows one to get a much broader view of the locals’ attitude………. It’s closer to what Al is saying than you might believe”

Well, than I wish he would point out that is what he is talking about. I try to listen to WDUZ all I can, on the link through this site, but at least the day after the game I didn’t hear any of that kind of talk.

You’re right, I don’t have any claim to having my finger on the pulse of the fans in the GB area. Al’s representation of what he’s hearing just doesn’t square with what I heard after the game. Just want to make sure he’s not getting too thin skinned! For better or worse, the Packers entered this season with a pretty high expectation level. When expectations are high, people get especially pissed about play that fails to meet them, like it or not.
Rocky70

PackFans had ‘high expectations” going into 2008 because of a 13-3 record in 2007.
PackFans had ‘high expectations” going into 2009 because of the preseason.

I would contend that in both cases, the high expectations were unmerited & based on emotion instead of reality…………….. I think everyone knew the Pack had issues that needed to be resolved to turn around a 6-10 season…………… These issues have become obvious early in season 2009…. Thus, the doom-sayers abound, even in the media…… Who said it was going to be easy? …………

IMO, the Pack will go on an upswing over the next few games & place themselves in a favorable position for a playoff spot…………. Then they’ll hit a rough spot again later in the season (probably due to the schedule) & the doom-sayers will once again crawl out of the woodwork………………. Happens to just about all NFL teams…….. The fickle fans hoisted up by the fickle media……………..
iccyfan

Lots of comments in regards to Rodgers holding the ball too long and many of the sacks being on him…

I believe it was Reid who noted that loss of yardage on sacks is preferable to throwing a pick; couldn’t agree more. Also, Big Ben Roethlisberger takes criticism for exactly the same thing and he’s won two Superbowls. I’m not about to be critical of Rodgers for standing in like a manly QB and holding the ball while waiting for somebody to come free. I’d rather have him looking to make a play than throwing it away too early! The armchair QB’s just slay me…
Rocky70

Agree that the yardage lost on a sack is preferable to an INT………… but too many hits on AR could ultimately lead to AR recovering from injury…………. Big Ben has limped off many a time after being sacked……….. Although Big Ben has only missed 8 games in 6 years, he has played many less than 100% & has been equally inneffective because of it. ………………… I’d hate to see AR get hurt because of the constant pounding………………… What would be worse? ……….. AR throwing a pick or AR getting hurt on a sack & missing a few games.
Matt Hayton

Sounds like Havel agrees with the rest of us realists on here:
http://www.packernet.com/audio/sportsline_1006.mp3
PackerPete

Let’s compromise folks…

Lets agree that ints are bad

Lets agree AR injured is bad

Lets agree that sacks are bad

where does that lead us?

umm… he needs to avoid the bad things while maximizing chances of good things. How can he do such magic?

Maybe learn to use some of the time he has to actually THROW THE BALL AWAY SOMETIMES!!

The sacks that were on him (there were a few) had me screaming at my TV “THROW THE BALL”.

He went through his progressions, then looked back at an option or two, then I saw “the look” come over him. That look when a player knows there are NO OPTIONS. At this point he should have as an option THROWING THE BALL AWAY!

I dont know if he has been coached not to just toss it and work the next down, or if this is his response to “gunslinger” mentality averseness where an INT is Gods worst revenge, so “do not put the ball in the air” takes over.

I sure wish he would let the completion % take a dip and also get the sack total down by simply having his 4th progression be “THROW THE BALL INTO THE CROWD ON THE SIDELINES”. hE HAD PLENTY OF TIME TO DO SO AND FAILED.
Matt Hayton

ok, still listening to Havel and I swear the guy is in my head…my thoughts exactly, good listen, peoples…
packer_bob

I don’t think anyone here is trying to slam Rodgers. You can’t expect any QB to be on top of his game when he’s had to run for his life the way Rodgers has so far this season. But the fact is, the ball isn’t coming out quickly enough and “the armchair QB’s” on this forum are simply echoing things said by real ex-QB’s and other analysts, namely that a few of those sacks have been on AR.

Guess I’m an “arm chair RB” because I’d like Grant to see the cutbacks or make someone miss once in awhile. And an “arm chair OL” because I’d like to see them open some holes and actually be able to block someone one on one. I mean, are you guys such homers that the most mild criticism of anything or anyone on the Pack is taken like a slap in the face?

As far as the “expectations” being unrealistic, all I seem to remember were excuses last year and the same homers that were talking about how loaded with talent we were all off season and pre of this year scrambling for excuses now. Some of you thought it was unrealistic to expect much last season after being in the championship game in 2007? Bet you weren’t saying that last year when we started two and oh, and when we dipped south it was all excuses.

I’m too lazy to thumb through years of worth of post to play gotcha,and I’m not going to bother. But some of you seem to be singing a different tune now. All I seem to remember is the sunny sunshine and how awesome we were, how lucky we were for this and that, and now it’s the expectations were stupid and irrational to begin with?

Maybe we’ll pull it together yet, we have alot of season left and if we start playing the way many of us were expecting, it won’t matter so much a few weeks from now. But bottom line, many of us are stunned at how bad we’ve looked (at times, in areas) this season. I think most if not everyone that post’s here have to admit they were not expecting what the reality has been the first four games of the season. If we’re going to start re-thinking what the expectations were now, in hindsight, I think that strains credibility for many of you.
packer_bob

Hayton, I’ll have to check that out.
Rocky70

Sorry MH

Chris Havel is a notorius “BF Lackey”………… He always has been, always will be…….
Note his publishing exploits: *FAVRE, by Brett Favre and Bonita Favre with Chris Havel. 2004.

You’re just another ‘fickle fan’ hoisted up by the ‘fickle media’.

Another note:….. How did Mark Tauscher start out (in your eyes) to being part of the answer to your doghouse in a matter of days ? ………. Looks like some more CYA on your part……………….. Kinda like your ever evolving & changing predictions.
AATP

Ok, I’m officially a little pissed that even when one posts a simple link to something that had multiple stories in and one regarding Favre it gets deleted… If you had noticed AL/ADMIN that the article I posted had information about Favre, Rodgers, the state of the team and more… there was stuff on other teams and interesting little anecdotes… And you decide to delete it cause you believe “that train has left the station”? That’s bullshit AL and you, of all people know it… So I guess I go back to being a quiet bystander reading the bitching and complaining and continue to watch AL delete shit that HE doesn’t believe is pertinent to the current state of the Packers.

Run 25 Years Packer (new) Run while you can!!!
packer_bob

AATP,

I can’t comment on the deletion as I don’t know what you posted.

I have to admit getting a chuckle out of Al’s response.
packer_bob

I’ll give TT some credit for saying the following, and personally don’t believe it’s too far from what the “negative Nancy’s” on this board are saying:

““The preseason and the regular season are a whole different kettle of fish, but yeah, I would have thought we would have played a little bit better starting out,” Thompson said. “But at the same time, we feel like we’re a work in progress, and we’re going to get better.”

““The whole protection issue is a combination of things,” Thompson said. “It’s the blocking, it’s the reads (by Rodgers), it’s the route running, it’s the running game, it’s the whole thing. All those things have to come together. I think we have a very potent offensive, but obviously we’ve stubbed our toe a little bit in terms of getting off to a good start.”

The last statement of the first paragragh quoted is the whole issue. If it happens, much of this will be yesterday’s news, easily forgotten.
Rocky70

Is this the ‘new’ PB ?

” The last statement of the first paragragh quoted is the whole issue. If it happens, much of this will be yesterday’s news, easily forgotten. ”

Nice post………….. I’ll be depressed if/when GB loses a 7th game in 2009…. Until then, I’m counting on the coaches to push the level of play to a higher level….. Just about every player on GB’s roster would be playing somewhere in the NFL if they weren’t a Packer (maybe all)……………

Because of this, I put the onus on the coaching staff to mold them into a better team……….. With the Lions & Browns up next, I see no reason why GB can’t be 4-2 when the Vikes come to Lambeau…………. A good question is: “What will the Vikes record be coming into Lambeau?” …….. I’m pulling for the Rams to pull off a bigtime upset this Sunday…………
iccyfan

packer_bob Says: “I mean, are you guys such homers that the most mild criticism of anything or anyone on the Pack is taken like a slap in the face?”

All I did was present a view on the “sack issue” that diverged from the norm; I admire Roethlisberger, Rodgers and Warner for their willingness to stand in and wait for a receiver to uncover. Rocky disagrees with my take and cites the increased risk of injury – entirely reasonable position. PackerPete acknowledges that the common fan doesn’t know what Rodgers has been coached to do. You respond with five wildly disconnected paragraphs of tired rhetoric highlighted by a return to your “homer” mantra. In this situation, who treated mild criticism (arm-chair QB) like a slap in the face?

I guess I’m in the minority on this, but I find you a tremendous bore who’s almost single-handedly sucked the life out of this blog. You win – I’m out…
Devil’s Advocate…

Note: The Qb has to be able to get outside of the tackle box to throw the ball away.
packer_bob

Yay, and still undefeated! I’ve sucked the life out of more important things than this! Those rumors about the Chupacabra in Mexico? All me. I couldn’t be prouder if I had been the unaccomplished recipient of the Nobel Peace prize!

I keed, I keed. I fully admit I can be a bit of a wear out. Perhaps you take all this too seriously? I just thought the “arm chair QB’s slay me” or whatever you said was a little bit of overkill, just like I felt Al was overstating the amount of devastation most of us as Packer fans felt about Monday’s loss. I said we were probably rightful dogs going into the game, but felt we probably had a decent (30 to 40 percent chance) of pulling it out.
Losing the game was way less important in the scheme of things than losing to Cincy at home. I was expecting to see a whole lot more pass rush (evidently Woodson was too) and was hoping the line would do a marginally better job. Didn’t happen, move on to the next one.

I haven’t seen one regular poster on here take shots at AR, or seriously argue about his lack of ability, or bring up the past. I’ve heard a couple of regulars point out that he may be developing happy feet and holding the ball too long. There’s also been some discussion of why we don’t work the quick passes instead of playing deep balls down the field all the time, the feast or famine play calling probably has something to do with it as well. If that doesn’t sit well with you, don’t take it personal, we all have our opinions.

When I say homer or high fiver, I’m talking about a fan so love in with the team he doesn’t recognize the problems for what they are. I’ve seen Bears fans guilty of it for years. Last I checked, this was a fan site for people to talk Packers, warts and all. I say yet again, let’s see where we’re at in another 4 or 5 games. The playing does the talking when all is said and done.

If you find me a bore, I’m sincerely sorry, skip my posts. I think you have an opinion that is at least defensible, and I don’t doubt that you are a Packer fan. If you are going to quit, because of lil’ ol’ me and my sin-cer-it-y, I think that’s a mistake.

But you give me WAY too much credit, sir. If I can single handedly suck the life out of this blog, it was running on fumes to begin with. And that has never been my opinion, or I wouldn’t be here in the first place.
packer_bob

“Nice post…………..”

Is this the new Rocky? You old curmudgeon, you, we probably have more in common than either of us would like to admit!
PackerPete

@DA

Note: If a QB knows all the routes on a particular play, he can have a “throw away” plan for one on each side where he simply throws the ball to a receivers area but 20 feet high and out of bounds.

That would NOT get called.

A QB must be outside the tackle box to blatently throw the ball to nobody and unload it (ball must go past the LOS)

I know the rules and how to apply the gray areas and/or work between the lines of the written text, I certainly hope our coaching staff does as well and are passing on the knowledge of how to use the rules to help yourself to our players, especially our QB.
Matt Hayton

Went back and watched the tape…man that OL has alot of work to do. I’m not sure Tauscher and Cliffy are the answer because I don’t think they can block for the other 3 positions, too. I still think getting those 2 back in the fold remains our best bet to solidify the OL, but after watching Monday’s game again, they’re gonna need to walk on water… There were multiple plays where all 5 guys were beat up front on the same play!

After watching the tape again, I have to hand it to AR, playing behind that line, it’s amazing the guy threw for 100 yards, let alone 400. Still think he is holding the ball too long, and was responsible for half of those sacks, but nonetheless, it’s understandable given the shit-storm that was happening up front all night long!

So, if I were TT, I would #1:
sign Tausch today (still not sure why he hasn’t done this before another NFL week, which could see RTs from contenders go down, hopefully they sign him today)

#2:trade kampman for a OT, 3-4DE (peppers) or the best running back (scat back, ahmad bradshaw, etc.) I could find.

I think 2 moves are necessary for us to make the playoffs. This team doesn’t have an identity, nothing to hang their hat on. I think it is going to take a couple of moves in order for that identity to be created. They either need to get nasty on defense, by adding another piece or solidifying that OL, so the offense can control games. Either improvement is going to require trading Kampman. Tausch, as the only acquisition, is going to help but not be enough to get this team over the top.
Matt Hayton

PB-
Agree don’t think anyone is slamming AR, I’m just not willing to say it’s all on the OL. Which to be fair, I remember #4 his first few years looked gaud-awful at times. Most of the criticism is that Rodgers just needs to get rid of the ball, which is part of the evolution of an NFL QB.

Part of the responsibility falls on McMuffin, as he needs to elminate all 7 step drops from his playback until further notice that the OL can block for longer than 2 seconds.
PackerPete

MH you seem hell bent on getting rid of Kampman.

If he was perhaps used better that would equate to an acquisition of great magnitude.

I get that he will have to drop back to play his new position, but does it have to be on every down?

He should be one of 4 who rushes the passer on 80% or more of the snaps. Bring him from different spots, different angles, different match-ups, but BRING HIM! Capers better wise up here a little and use the players he has in thier areas of strength, Kampman is a great pass rusher, not a cover LB. He can certainly be a 3-4 LB and still play to his strength, but only if the coaches calls allow him to.

I need to add here, before TC and during PS I read that the defensive scheme would allow regular use of a 4 man line. I have not seen this. I have seen 4 guys standing up and hovering around the OL, but where is the 4 man line with Kampman at left end with his hand down? IMO it is just plain STUPID to completely remove the best threat this group of players can apply to the offense, namely Kampman rushing the passer from LE starting with his hand down (gives him the explosiveness he needs to be the force we know he is). I can see the rationale for not doing it every down and hence the switch to the 3-4, but for Gods sake, let the man help this team by getting his hand in the dirt occasionally. When he lined up like that every down, teams knew what he was going to do and they couldnt stop him, skip some of the “phoney-baloney” “were trying to fool the OL by disguising our looks” and maybe just execute better than your opponent, outcompete him and defeat him on that play.

Kampman is one of only two Packers who have proven themselves capable of regularly winning one on one battles at thier position in the NFL, the other being Woodson.

To take away his strength is to take away the strength of the Defense and leave it where it is today… floundering.

Play to the players strengths within the scope of the scheme. There must be room in the 3-4 to have a LB rush the passer, let it be Kampman and stop with all the “were going to out-scheme you” and bring a little “were going to out-compete you”
PackerPete

Kampman is one of only two Packers who have proven themselves capable of regularly winning one on one battles at thier position in the NFL, the other being Woodson.

edit: I meant to insert the words “on defense” in here somewhere…
Matt Hayton

PackerPete-
I totally agree with you, but they haven’t been using him that way. And that is messing with the scheme. They have been training Kampman all off-season to play a specific role in this 34 D, but it’s clear he is out of position. The bye week would have provided the only oppty. to reutilize his skill set and change his assignments in this D (ie – being responsible for the check-down back), but they gave everyone the whole week off, to my knowledge, which now, limits what they can do, because they need to install a gameplan for the Lions. To gamplan and reorientate scheme during the same week is challenging. Maybe they will bring the guys back today and the plan is to reorientate scheme today and tomorrow, but I didn’t hear that they were doing that, have you?

If they would reorientate scheme, change assignments and get him in a 3 point stance and just let him rush the passer, I think it’d be huge. I’d be all for that. Love Kampman, think he is one of the best character guys on our team. Team leader, model pro-athlete, but if they aren’t going to use him properly, why would he resign with us, when he can go and get a big paycheck and move back to being a 4-3 DE somewhere else in the offseason? That beind said, the wise move in my mind, as much as it pains me, is to trade him and get something fro him.

This was one of my biggest concerns in switching to the 34 as it took the only difference maker we have on that D-Line, out of position. Not sure if there is a good solution there…he’s a square peg in a round hole, if we keep him this season and risk losing him in the offseason (likely) or we trade one of our few team leaders and pro-bowl caliber players. My preference would be to figure out a way to use him better and keep him. Hopefully, they get that done. We’re on teh same page here, just think for whatever reason they won’t do that, so we might as well trade him and get something instead of just letting him walk away this offseason…

Be A Fan:

Fallout over loss to Vikings is over the top