NFLPA going to far

The end of football as we know it probably about 48 hours away. The reason being that in the last few years turning a profit as a business has become a crime, especially if you are dealing with the NFLPA. God forbid that the man who writes your paycheck actually makes any money. That is not what America is all about. Not anymore.

In this new ” distribution of wealth” era employees are entitled to half the profits even though they though they pay none of the expenses. Not too shabby. Unfortunately for the NFLPA I doubt they get it. The players need the NFL, the NFL doesn’t need them.

If the league closed up shop tomorrow, which I think they should do Saturday if no extension is reached, the owners wouldn’t go broke, they will always be rich. That is why they are owners. If the NFL never played another game it would be no skin off their back.

Union leader De Smith seems to think the players are paying the league instead of vice versa, and the lawyer by trade is at home in the courtroom, which is where they are headed.

How else do you explain this quote by Smith?

“Just to be absolutely clear, the information that was offered wasn’t what we asked for. According to our investment bankers and advisors, they told us that information would be meaningless in determining whether to write an $800 million check to the National Football League.”

That statement alone tells you how clueless this man is and how poorly advised this union is. Even if they win in court, they lose. What are they going to court for? 20 million isn’t enough for a year’s pay? I suppose, many of them have 9 wives and 10 kids to support. Not counting the 100 grand bar bills and making it rain a few times.

In a league where the 32 teams have to fend for themselves financially I couldn’t see the Packers lasting ten years. Without a draft the Packers would have no shot at the top players, and no major network would ever want them on national TV. Without the antitrust exemption the NFL now enjoys the small market teams will become noncompetitive and then extinct.

So the players want fewer jobs and lower pay? Go figure?

Anyway, maybe I’m jumping to conclusions but the way everybody and their uncle is talking to the media instead of following the mediator’s order of complete silence, things seem to be falling apart rapidly. I hope the players realize they are screwing over every player who played before them and every player that will play after them.

Who the NFL really needs is Jim Baker.

ON A BRIGHTER SIDE:

I can’t help but wonder what our old buddy Jon is thinking these days. I’m sure he can find a flaw in Aaron Rodgers that we overlooked and that Rodgers will never be great. Last year Rodgers was Aaron ‘fumble-six’ Rodgers in the 1000 or so emails or banned comments I received from him.

Like the Ted Thompson bashers, it is no longer a question of “if” they were wrong, they “were” wrong! Granted, it took him a year longer than it took Ron Wolf to win a championship, but that is because Thompson inherited Mike Sherman as coach. Now “The Thompson Way” is becoming to team building what the ” West Coast Offense” became to NFL offenses, a gold standard to success.

The new Packernet is confident this thing will get worked out and the Packers will have a chance to defend their World Championship. Come on, apes don’t kill apes!

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  • http://Orlando Mark

    Al, you are wrong on just about every point. The owners are making a profit, they want a bigger profit. As far as redistributing wealth, maybe you aren’t keeping up with current events. Since Reagan’s supply side tax cuts for the wealthy the redistribution of wealth has gone to them. The players aren’t asking for any changes and would probably make concessions so I don’t see them as starting this fight. The fact that you root for a team that is successful despite not having a profit driven owner must make you uncomfortable. Maybe you should root for the Redskins. I understand their owner has a real nose for profiting from his otherwise losing teams.

    • Cody

      Like it or not, football is a business. You don’t own a football team if you expect to lose money. (Unless you are a playboy who buys one just to own one) Look, I am not against the NFLPA, or even unions in general. But I am against how many of them operate. The thing about this is that everyone is rich. There is no “little guy”. Even rookies get somewhere in the neighborhood of 250k/year, that puts them into what, the richest 5% of all americans or something like that. And whats all this b.s. about retirement packages?? If you can’t invest your multi-million dollar salary so that you have some money to live on if you get hurt or when you retire, than you are an idiot.
      Yes the owners are greedy, but they have every right to be because they OWN the team.
      The title of the this fight should be: The Wealthy Elite vs The Wealthier Elite
      And that is how it is. Why are so many people (Union reps/owners) so stupid?

      • http://Orlando Mark

        Cody, does the word greed mean anything to you. “Treasure of the Sierra Madre” is a good study of this. Nobody has the right to be greedy, I never saw that in the Constitution. Greed isn’t that good on either side.

    • Servius

      “The owners are making a profit, they want a bigger profit”

      So? they pay the players REALLY WELL and will continue to do so on the way to that profit. If the players don’t like their job or how well they’re paid I hear there’s always a need for granite counter top installers.

      • http://Orlando Mark

        Servilious, that’s why they have anti trust laws concerning monopolies, which these owners run. Your very statement makes that point. If there was a monopoly on auto tires and you wanted one you would be forced to pay whatever price the monopoly wanted. There have been many over the years that have been broken up(Standard Oil) because they destroy any benefit of capitalism including innovation.

        • Servius

          Standard Oil lowered costs for consumers. All of the so called monopolies that were broken up had made their position by lowering costs for consumers.

          Shoot, before Standard Oil, kerosene was a product for the rich. After it became a product for the poor.

          I suggest reading the Politically Incorrect Guide to Capitalism.

          We now return to our regularly scheduled Packer talk.

  • Justin

    Al,

    This is definitely the worst article I have read about the collective bargaining negotiations. Without question. Here are a few reasons:

    1) Players are the ones playing the game. A dangerous game that lowers their life-expectancy by (on average) 20 years. They have every right to huge compensation for that.

    2) You are drinking the right-wing kool-aid with that “[re]distribution of wealth,” “it’s a crime to turn a profit” crap. It’s not true, there’s no good reason to think it’s true, and the only reason you believe it is because Fox News or Rush or some other jagoff told you to.

    3) This quote: “I suppose, many of them have 9 wives and 10 kids to support. Not counting the 100 grand bar bills and making it rain a few times.” Racist? Probably. Huge, hasty, and unfair generalization definitely. Do you hate the players so much? Why do you even watch them play?

    4) This whole article reads like you haven’t even tried to understand the argument the players are making. Sure, you get the owner’s position: “We want more money! You players have no right to to more of it, because we’re the owners and it’s ours! And if we want to make you play two more games, we can, because we’re the owners!” But what about the players? The league has been gaining HUGE profits and yet the players haven’t seen nearly proportional increases to their wages. Yet it’s because of the players that the league is doing to so well financially. They have a right to ask for a bigger slice of the pie than they’ve been getting, because the pie is only so big because of them.

    5) Most players last for three years or less and make less than one million dollars. Often the reason their careers are so short is because of injuries incurred while doing their job. Given the number of career-ending injuries and life-long health problems associated with football, the players sure should feel like they ought to have life-long health insurance.

    • StCroixPack

      I with Justin on this one. Well said.

    • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

      Justin, I’ll believe your point 5) when you prove it. I cannot prove it, but my statement in rebuttal is that they often have short career is because they get beat out for a job.

    • http://Orlando Mark

      Justin I agree with a lot but in #4. “They have a right to ask for a bigger slice of the pie than they’ve been getting, because the pie is only so big because of them.” The players aren’t asking for more. In fact they are willing to take less.
      Also the game is bigger partly due to player talent but I have to admit the management has done an outstanding job of promoting the game.

  • StCroixPack

    You just have to hope that they get it done right. I don’t want to see Football become similar to Baseball where the Packers play the roll of the Twins. Great organization, develops the players until they earn their big payday, and head off to the east coast for some playoff wins and big bucks.

    The owners are getting pressured to show the books simply because they keep crying about “needing” to have a bigger part to the pie. They just can’t make it without a bigger slice. Then they don’t open the books so you have to wonder what they want to hide. Is is just a privacy issue or are they lying. My guess is the latter.

    You are right about one thing. The owners have the power. They get to choose the path, time to outsource football I guess.. Let them lock out the player and take their chances in court. I think we all know that path would be less desirable then a settlement. So the owners group and players union are really just playing chicken and trying their hands at brinkmanship.

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

    Monopoly, maybe, but so what the players with their college educations have a choice to make a very good living in another field. I, on the other hand, have a choice to watch and support or not. Seems fair to me.
    Spiro Agnew had it right; “If you took all the money of the rich and gave it to the poor within a few years the rich would have it all back again”.
    A lot of the older guys complain about the pension, etc., but its relative – most did not use their inflated salaries wisely or invest in their future. Its all relative-timewise, when they were making 15K a year I was making 3.5K. I, however, worked for companies that had benefit packages, but even so I always put aside a few bucks a payday, and raised nine kids in the process. Go cry on someone else’s shoulders wasteful spenders. (Gee, you know, I didn’t have my first Caddy until I retired.)

    • http://Orlando Mark

      A heartwarming story L-T but old Spiro was a cynical crook. The world you made your money in is going away. Between outsourcing and poor government policies our country is going backward to Hooverville.

      • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

        Doesn’t change the import of what he said in that you have to learn to handle your money and thats an individual responsibility. Can’t deny that outsourcing is the result of a global competitive labor market nor that poor govt policy is setting us up for another round of massive inflation. Hooverville? Why? Govt will just print and hand out more money.

        • http://Orlando Mark

          You’re right about individual resposability.
          Outsourcing doesn’t happen in Germany, Japan, etc. without careful consideration of it’s affect on decreasing the tax base and increasing social costs like feeding children of workers without jobs. We have to borrow that money you’re talking about from China and that’s not going to last much longer. Argentina tried printing phoney dollars and it doesn’t work.

        • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

          Thats changing, Mark, albeit for a US market but Toyota, Mercedes, and Hundai to name a few all have built assembly plants here in the south. Why? For the most part right-to-work and/or no state income taxes. In other words a favorable environment for manufacturing.

    • matt

      “Monopoly, maybe, but so what the players with their college educations have a choice to make a very good living in another field.”
      My organizing and forming a union, they now have the ability to negotiate. They can also choose to accept the owner’s offers, negotiate further or decertify. They have power because they are a union, and they have more choices.

      “A lot of the older guys complain about the pension, etc., but its relative – most did not use their inflated salaries wisely or invest in their future.”
      This is a misinformed statement. Check the facts and appreciate those who laid the foundation for something great. If I could buy Thomas Jefferson and George Washington a beer, I would.

  • matt

    So you don’t like unions, eh?

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

    Well, if that is aimed at me, I fail upon re-read to see what I said that would bring you to that conclusion. Rather what I said goes to self-reliance and making the most of those gifts and opportunities that are given to each of us.

    • matt

      Directed toward Al.

  • 4205

    Justin wrote a lot of words, but I’m not sure I agree with the premise:

    1) Players play a dangerous game – yes. Deserve huge compensation – they are there. They want it to be more huge.

    2) Redistribution of wealth – turn a profit? Somewhere along the line it became criminal to take a risk, hire a bunch of people and make a profit. Not sure why, but if us idiot fans want to keep paying big bucks to go to games, the owners are still going to want to build newer and nicer ones. Having labor pay for part of the cost doesn’t seem unreasonable to me since they want to keep getting a guaranteed piece of the revenue.

    3) like everywhere, a few idiots get quoted and dominate the headlines. Not relevant – not sure how racism charge fits in. Stupid actions are color blind.

    4) sounds like Justin hasn’t made an attempt to look at both sides. Personally I think both sides are out to lunch. Players striking and pretending to be a poor union is stupid. Owners locking out is just as inane. Again, as long as fans are willing to foot the bill, no reason to change.

    5) Three year careers? most regular folks would think a million bucks in three years is fabulous. If they are figuring for three years, hopefully a little planning ahead and use of the college degree – you do remember these people went to college (mostly for free right). Let them skip the three years and start right out selling vacuum cleaners or whatever – their choice!

    • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

      Wow, right on 42!

  • Rick

    LT and 4205 are correct.

    Most players are out in three or less because someone took the job away. My buddy Kurt played three years at 1.2 million after paying his agent as an NFL QB.

    He only spent about 150,000 of it. Almost 500,000 went to pay income taxes, both state federal and social security and Medicare. He shared apts with other guys to reduce his overhead. He always knew he was one knee hit from being out of the league. He invested the other and does commercial real estate and college football games in the booth. He was beat out. Heck When Grossman came back to the Bears from injury he got cut and was never back in the league again.

    If the players don’t like it they can form their own league.

    They can setup stadiums, front offices, set up TV coverage and contracts, marketing aggreements, branding, paying the hourly employees at the stadium, pay the fans $10 an hour to shovel out a stadium, create a muti media empire and then create a fantasy league thus creating greater interest in the entire brand as opposed to just fanatics loyal to one team in one area.

    Oh by the way how much of THAT PIE would players now turned owners expect to share with their employees that they hire to play…

    30%…40%… maybe 58% …… how about 60%. Did I mention that cost to operate fixed structures like power etc has almost tripled. How about the 100′s of million sto remodel or build a new stadium.

    The owners took a bad deal in 2006 so that the world would keep spinning and started planning on pulling the plug when 2008 saw the stock market crash. Jerry Jones lost 30% of his net worth, the Redskins owner might have still to sell the team. Ziggy is barely holding it together in Minnessota financially. He still is using bailouts.

    GB went from 98 million in the bank in 2006 to about 35 million 2010, and that was staying 20 million under the last cap.

    The Players are killing the Golden Goose.

    If they allowed a 750 million roll back and kept 16 games and 5% of all player salary goes to the NFLPA to assist with group medical and retirement ( which SHOULD BE THE UNIONS JOB TO ADMINISTER) we have a deal in about 6 hours and some legal mumbo jumbo.

    Rookie slotting will take about another 6-8 hours to hash out over a couple of days.

    That is not the issue. The Players have always wanted all the numbers…. they don’t own the dang teams. They don’t get the numbers. Deal with it.

    The NFL provided the league financial statement. The NFLPA wants individual books. Not gonna happen.

    • Rick

      BTW a 750 million roll back is about 23 million per team. GB was 20 million below the cap so It really does not change much for a lot of teams. We were already that amount below the cap.

      Also there was no floor last year so the Panthers could crush their payroll down to under 70 million that is almost 40 million below GB. So with a role back there would still be a cap floor in place forcing teams to spend at least a competitve minimum salary number.

    • http://Orlando Mark

      Some good comments Rick. But I lost 50% of what I had in real estate and unfortunately I can’t cut someones salary to make up for that. I’d love to see the players take less and a rookie slotting deal will put more money in the pockets of the players that earned it in the League. That would benefit everyone but the agents. Everything you propose makes sense. It’s just a matter of reaching a compromise deal on the money say $400 million. Just hope they get it done.

      • Rick

        As the boss of a real estate company you can fire people or cut back on salaries that stay employeed with you, the last CBA won’t allow that. You can’t field less then 53 players and until the uncapped 2010 year you had to spend so much with a max and min number given.

        That said; true you and I are about 80-90% the same on this thing.

        I swear it is all about owners wanting to roll back from a to good of a deal mistake they made and the players wanting to have access to argue the books.

      • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

        Mark, are you sure you lost 50% or was that loss against the inflated value rather than the purchase cost? Your loss would certainly be predicated on when you bought the property.

      • http://Orlando Mark

        I sold a business and put most of the money in real estate before the crash because I thought that would be safe. The prices were definitely inflated but I didn’t know that as they were the going prices. I’m trying to ride it out until prices go back up.

        • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

          I can appreciate that. In ’29 my Grandmother sold and my Great Aunt held. Guess who ended up with the bucks after WWII? Hang on as long as you can; like a wise man once said “Never sell at a loss”, right, easier said than done.

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

    It seems to me that we could argue all day on the merits of who has the greater right to whatever percentage of revenue. Don’t think we could all agree; good thing we’re not the negotiators.
    However, I’d bet that famous doughnut to a dollar that we would all agree on two points.
    A rookie cap of some kind and a somewhat generous retirement and health insurance plan.

    • http://Orlando Mark

      Makes sense but slotting first rounders is the most important part. As long as the overall money is the same this should benefit regular starters the most. The slotting could be near what it is now without the rdiculous deals for the top dozen.

      • Rick

        Our a heavy slot system (pay according to 2001 draft level) but limit rookie contracts to three years. Starters would be able to get to make market price earlier with out the team risking breaking the bank and draft busts will have to work hard or be gone from the league quickly.

        No more draft fat cat-itis players that don’t want to work hard.

  • Jeff

    I just laugh at the people who think the season is going to be canceled , they will not miss a game ! wake up !!

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

    Reviewing all of these comments for the last couple of days brings to mind my Pappy telling me “Don’t ever argue sex, politics, or religion with your friends, if you want them to stay your friends.” He died in ’63; I wonder what he would think about the world of today, strange.

  • Jeff

    Redistribution of wealth is just how socialism gets started , watch out America. This is not the American way , America is not about handouts , it is about working to achieve the American dream.
    Take awy the incentive to work with goverment handouts and nobody will have the will to work and if you think all our goods are made in China now, just wait and see what happens iif they push socialism on us.
    People work and make goods and that makes the country great.
    It is a shame to see what is happening to our steel industry all because the government is worried about handouts to people who came here illegally.

    • http://Orlando Mark

      Jeff, socialism is working surprisingly well in democratic countries with strong unions. I was just in Germany where it’s booming. They don’t owe a trillion$ to the Chinese and at the same time have universal health care and pay their teachers well. Gas prices are high so they use less per person than we do and don’t have our trade imbalance. Also, as I pointed out, since Reagan the redistribution has gone to the wealthiest Americans not the poorest.

      • 4205

        Its all perspective I presume. Germany is very low in productivity and capital investment according to numbers i have seen. That makes sense if everybody gets the same and there is little reward for innovation / efficiency.

        • http://Orlando Mark

          They seem more innovative than us in science and engineering. But less so in marketing and banking products. Only Americans could think up derivitives and bundled mortgage backed securities.

          • Rick

            The Germans are not the more innovative, the number of patents applied for bares that out. They are accomplished engineers but do to size and population China, India and the US have more engineers and more projects currently going.

            People thought of the bundled securites in the 1890s in England first and they had to setup rules on it, again in the 20s it was pushed aside too.

            In the 2000s the power brokers managed to get the rules changed so they could shove through more and more paper. They needed more paper to push so they lowered the standards for mortgages so they could push them. Finally it blew.

            Please don’t troll the site with inflamatory and ill informed comments. Please have your opinion and present some solid evidence with it. You may sway me to your side of the discussion. As it is your statement is tantrum like.

            I do appreciate respectful, civil, and informed discussion on politics or religion or we can stick with the actual nature of this site, Packer football.

          • Jeff

            You are right Rick , Germany is not more inovative . Socialism does not work and anyone who belives Socialism works is just trying to covince themselves that the libearl agenda works.
            I agree 100% than bungled mortgages put us in this mess and they went to way too many low income people who could not pay the loans back.
            Now , back to Packer football. I repeat , there will be no games missed !

          • http://Orlando Mark

            Rick, I don’t feel I’m being a troll. I’ve been to Germany and it works very well for it’s citizens. I never said they were more innovative overall but 4205 is wrong to posit they are less so. Did people in the 1890′s think of bundling toxic mortgages in with good ones? That’s the kind of innovation that’s rewarded here. I don’t consider that inflammatory just expository. I also don’t consider these statements the result of a tantrum just informative in response to Jeff’s rant out of nowhere.

          • Rick

            Using insurance to minimize risk as a cover for the true volitility of the product being traded was restricted in England and the US stock exchanges.

            I see now that your post was just in a sarcastic tone to an earlier post. I apologize for my “troll” and “tantrum” comments.

    • Steve Cheez

      Maybe next year we can watch the Shingtao Packers play the People’s Army Red Storm in the Chinese Super Bowl.

  • iccyfan

    Obviously the darn kids messed with my “favorite’s list” again, adding a “Wall Street Journal” link and labeling it “Packernet”!

    The only “trickle down” appropriate to discuss here is that cool old picture of Nitschke where the blood is trickling down his big nose…

    • http://Orlando Mark

      Sorry.

  • Mel E Mel

    This is about a certain group of owners who arent competitive financially or in the football sense. Carolina, Washington,Jacksonville, Dallas etc. Too side with either the players or the owners is a bit naive. The owners never risk their lives. Any thinking person knows NFL players have more than adequate salaries. The NFL says its concerned about player safety and proposes an 18 game season. ST. Croix made a comment about the Twins. Baseball analogies do not apply. Nowhere in the NFL can teams outspend another 3 to 1 like baseball.
    Nowhere in the NFL is someone threatening to leave his team if he doesnt get 20 million (Albert Pujols). The word socialism is thrown a lot. Certain owners want a “guarantee” of certain percentage of profits. Thats sounds like communistic language. Capitalism is about risking something. Certain teams do not want to pay the consequences of being bad organizations. A free system demands a downside for poor performance. Bad players normally get cut except for Jarrett Bush. The owners are proposing have no possibility of a downside. That does not exist unless all your underlings control the White House like Goldman Sachs.

    • http://Orlando Mark

      Well put. Both sides have to be reasonable without the inflammatory rhetoric. The NFL could be improved and has been with the help of the NFLPA, like testing for PED’s and benefits for retirees. I hope there will be progress instead of ruining a good thing.

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

    Look for quick settlement now that we’re at the deadline. I’m no expert in Lbr/Mgmt relations but did study under Rev. Comey and one thing stands out in memory. Each side always has a “throw away” that is designed to draw public attention away from the real guts of the dispute. I’m guessing that Smith’s is the “open the books” and unless I’m totally off the wall the League’s is the eighteen game season.

    Another thing I learned is that there is no “total blackout” because each side wants outside support for their positions to bring pressure on the other side. Hence, its my conclusion that a tentative agreement is already in place and they both are trying to find a way to anounce the settlement in a positive way so as not to have egg on their face having caved. This negotiation has been void of leaks so I deduce there is really no argument going on.

    • Rick

      I am sorry to disagree but this is about to go boom.

      The owner’s moved from their first position by almost 300 million dollars. The union has not budged at all and wants this to go to court. They want to negotiate as much as possible for PR and legal manuevering in Doty’s courtroom. Smith is an attorney, he likes the courtroom. It has been very good to the players with Doty presiding over things since Reggie White.

      The owners were wanting a 2-3 month lockout and using the TV contract they could float with out issue and wear down the players. Then the players managed to get Doty to overrule an independent ruling and remove the owners lockout fund.

      Oh oh said the owner’s. We need to keep the union in front of us and not in court. Legal cases cause delays in which now the owner’s lose money and if ruled against they have to pay out triple in anti trust case suits. But this delay an dicker dance is about done I am afraid.

  • http://Orlando Mark

    That makes sense.

  • iccyfan

    “Capitalism is about risking something. Certain teams do not want to pay the consequences of being bad organizations. A free system demands a downside for poor performance. Bad players normally get cut except for Jarrett Bush.”

    Made me smile…

    Even so, it’s not fair to bust on JBush now; he had a decent season, contributed when needed and helped us win a Superbowl. We should call a moritorium on Jarrett jokes…

    • http://Orlando Mark

      It was fun while it lasted. I’m sure we’ll find a new target soon.

  • matt

    Al, I will not donate to Packernet because I don’t want to offend you; by redistributing my wealth to you.

  • Mel E Mel

    On NFL network they showed that the INT in the Super Bowl was a bad read, by Ben. He had the TE open for a TD because surprise suprise Bush blew the coverage. Even a blind squirrel…

    • http://Orlando Mark

      I’m surprised the waterboy wasn’t in there with all the DB injuries. I’d love to have a blood pressure monitor on Capers during the game. That would be almost as good as the sound FX.

    • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

      It sounds like to be fair to all we should put an asterisk by Bush’s INT #s but then, again, to be fair we’d need one for Hawk, Chillar, Bishop, or even Raji too. Better yet, lets not count the INTs we get, lets just count the mistakes the opposing QB makes. Wouldn’t that be fairer? Lets not give credit where credit is not due.

      • http://Orlando Mark

        He held onto the ball. Which puts Bush in the hero catagory.

  • roy jamison

    Al your point that it took a year longer for Thompson to win a Superbowl was because he had Sherman as a coach is about as stupid as it comes. He had the opportunity to fire Sherman and he didn’t. In fact he signed him to a multiple year contract. Sherman probably could have worked with a different GM, like Wolf. But these were personality differences more than anything. The won-loss records of are very similar. Sherman was 57-39 for a .594 winning percentage. McCarthy is 48-32 for a .600 winning percentage. I believe if Wolf would have stayed on during Sherman’s years, we would have seen another Super Bowl. Because uncle Bob didn’t want to do the work of finding someone compatible with Sherman as a GM, he put a guy with no GM experience in place of one of the best GMs the Pack has ever had. That simply was a bad decision.

  • 4205

    Bush has been a whipping boy for quite a while, but he did hold on to the ball – and since he got the int, by definition, he was in the right place.

    Unfortunately, I agree with Rick – there is going to be a long period with no NFL-NFLPA agreement. I expect any new season will start with rookies and non-union players. Smith appears hell-bent on legal answers and they don’t get resolved without long protracted fights.

    We love the Green Bay Packers and will cheer Jim Del Gazio as loud (well almost as loud) as Bart Starr or Aaron Rodgers.

    • Steve Cheez

      It takes an awfully good QB to beat out Scott Hunter…

  • Larry

    Wow, go away for a day or two and look at what you miss!!! Give L/T a soapbox and lookout!!
    The simple rule of business is you get what you negotiate…The owners have the gold and the players know it…its going to take time but eventually the players will drive this back to the table. Smith has to control 1500 players and Goodell has only 32 owners (all with money). We know how this will end…we just don’t know when.

  • Rick

    As a publicly owned team, I recommend that GB management schedules their OTA and training camp. Also I would recommend that we attempt to sign players from the draft If players under contract miss mandatory camp we file against them and the players that filed the anti trust suit for collusion and breach. Then the NFL can argue that the NFLPA is actually operating as a union in hiding to Doty. (Denying to report to work)

    GB has shown the books and the line by line data. As a super bowl champion it is hard to argue that the team can not be a fair average representation of the league for litigation. The players want all the books but I think this argument will fly with Doty. It shows the owners operating in the best interest of both the owners and the players. And respects the business privacy.

    It also puts the players in a bad position legally. If found to be operating as a union instead of individuals the owners will win and the case goes away from Doty and to the National Labor Board. Then the last offer of the owners will be automatically put in place. I am curious to see the language of the last offer.

    The players wanted to get paid on other uses of the stadiums when not in use for football. That is why they want the books. They want to use it for future litigation. Well my little team here in GB already has shown them the dang books….. Our team is just barely profitable.

  • 4205

    Not sure how the legalese works, but Rick makes sense. the “association” of owners set up guidelines within which to operate (isn’t that what the players “union” is doing). Then everybody operates within those guidelines or they are not allowed to be in the group —lots of certification groups operate that way are aren’t deemed in violation of antitrust rules.

    of course, ultimately the NFL as it previously existed is extinct and we have a lot of competing “world championships” – no big tv contracts and a very disorganized set up…..but the players don’t seem to value the adminstrations’ role in a successful product so let them figure it out.

    the arena league, the canadian league, the world league all attract some of the better players (remember the AFL and the USFL) and you end up with an unsustainable set up (teams folding and changing, etc – tickets are watered down driving down prices and creating lower player salaries). Its fun going to minor league hockey games and a lot cheaper that the NFL.

    It is hard to believe the players can’t figure out they had a great thing going and believe the owners when they were just trying to not let it get stale.

    I hope i’m wrong, but I don’t see any negotiations until summer and any games with substantial numbers of prior NFLPA members until Halloween at the earliest.

  • Larry

    “Feed the bulldog”….an old college professor kept harping that the business world revolves around feeding the bulldog…in negotiations whoever has the strongest need to feed the bulldog generally capitulates. Not a good time to be shoping for health insurance, buying gas for an escalade or two, or paying the mortgage and taxes on that property you bought during the real estate heyday.

    Let alone having more time on your hands to spend at the casino, and while the players wait another draft class comes in willing and able to take their jobs.

    This is not a poker hand I’d want to play…and lets face it, we’re GBP fans and we already are accustomed to rooting for the TEAM. The players come and go….

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

    Yesterday I felt an agreement was in hand and by Monday it would be business as usual this time of year.
    Still lean that way, but when individual players start filing anti-trust suits I now have some doubts.
    I’m not going to pick a favorite in this fight ’cause I really could care less who wins or loses, or gains or falls back. Been through this before.
    On the other hand it seems dumb to me that the guy getting the paycheck thinks he is going to win over the guy that writes the check for a non-essential service. If it all (as we know it) ended tomorrow I know who the winners would be. There are very few owners in this to make money; only the family teams (NYG, PIT, CHI, etc.) made their money in the NFL. You can include the Pack in this group as well.

  • Rick

    In life you are paid depending on how irreplaceable you are. Same goes for the NFL.

    Great QBs make more than back ups Special Teamers. Lead attorneys make more then court appointed public defenders.

    Well now we find out who really owns the NFL, the team owner’s or the players. It is sad but unless Doty rules quickly we may not have the front half of the season. There will have to be a FA time, a time for training camp, etc. Doty will have to get the whole thing done by Memorial Day in order for it to still kind of start in time.

  • Larry

    A good timeline Rick, but 4 preseason games are not needed…even owners know that so if only two get played and then 16 real games that will work as well. As much as the owners want all the revenue, if something gives let it be pregames. Changing schemes this year could be impossible depending on the settlement date..glad we’re not in that boat.

  • http://Orlando Mark

    I wish the fans had a seat at the table. Rick and I could resolve this in one sitting. I would start with giving all the veterans an immediate 10% raise in return for rookie slotting with shorter contracts(money offsetting). And tell the owners to take half of what their asking without opening the books. Since the owners are supposed to use that money to grow the game, make them use some of it for a rookie/minor league which will give the NFLPA more members and might even make a profit if it’s done right. Rick, your move.

  • 4205

    Sorry Mark – The owners already reduced their initial demand by 2/3 and the players said unless they get ten years of audited financial statements they won’t talk anymore.

    The players don’t feel they need the league – the owners are stuck with a framework which will likely be deemed in violation of anti trust laws (again – thanks to judges that don’t have to be accountable to anyone, least of all common sense) without a union.

    Thus we are at a standstill – the players want to run the asylum and the owners believe if they give them all the information they will no longer have any say whatsoever – a reasonable expectation.

    The only real answer to resume some normalcy is for the judge to get his head out of his butt and rule the decertification is a sham – that is about as likely to happen as Obama and Bush having cocktails together.

    • http://Orlando Mark

      4205 you may be right but they have fantasy leagues and this was my chance to have a fantasy negotiation. A little more give and take. A little less suspicion of motives in the best interest of the game. I’d love to have a minor league for instance. Two more months of meaningful(to the players and coaches trying to get into the NFL) before the season. I’m already starting to miss my fix. It could take the place of rookie camps and give kickers and QB’s tryouts and live work. New rules tried, etc.

  • Rick

    The players want to receive revenue from stadiums uses other than football because of the players being asked to give up part of the off the top money before revenue split.

    That is the reason they want to force the books to be open.

    @ Mark —-In a fan world,

    9 Billion revenue

    CBA will be good for 10 years with opt out clause by players or owners after 8 years. However in order to opt out 200 hours must be logged with a mediator first to try and work out reasons of opt out. Perhaps correcting and ammending the CBA before it ran out. Also this agreement now eliminates the NFLPA the right to decertify for 11 years. The NFL will only employee players that are members of the NFLPA for the same 11 years. That means no scab players and no decertifying threats if another CBA can not be worked out for a full year after this one runs out.

    2 Billion to NFL owners to cover debt and growth.

    The remaining 7 Billion is spilt 33 ways (32 owners and 1 to the NFPLA) at roughly $212 per piece. This $212 million piece allows a salary cap max at 70% and floor at 50% of the per team revenue. As revenue changes this dollar amount changes but not the percentage and split.

    The $212 million player portion is used by the union to pay for ongoing health and retirement benefits, after football training, after football degree program, and funding for any other things the players want to do. This way the players benefit automatically by the NFL and owners trying to improve the league and the profits. It also places the players as being responsible stewards to those before and after them that play the game.

    This gives the players strength of confidence that the owners are working in their players best interest by default as it is the way the owners get paid too. The owners get their 2 billion but have to cut a 33rd person in on the pie which loses them a little over $200 million. Not bad for owners.

    The players now can control player issues with medical, retirement, and also want the sport to be as safe as possible as profits directly influence their piece of the pie and what they can do too. With 2500 players that have been in the league in the last 5 years with one full season acredited that allows almost $83,000 to be spent per player on premiums etc per year. My gut says with all the older players included that will be about $10,000 per player per year for covering costs. Not bad for playes.

    Rookie salaries are structured for all 7 rounds. No UDFA can be paid more then the last slotted salary in his first year deal. Rookie contracts start at 10 million for 3 years for first pick 1/2 is paid as signing bonus. It scales down to 3.3 million for 3 years for #32 pick with half as signing bonus( average drop of $209,000 per slot).

    From 3 million for pick #33 to $280,000 for last pick #224 (average drop is $14,160 per pick). After 3rd round no 1/2 as signing bonus.

    The reduction and a 50% cap floor means veterans will earn more to meet the minimum then the last CBA had.
    3 years service is RDFA and 4 years is FA so a team can draft, develop, and when they lose the player they have some recovery. Lazy busts are gone quick and don’t kill the team salary wise.

    Veteran Players win again and FA is easier to get. Rookies put up or shut up.

    4 preseason and 16 regular game schedule stay the same. So does playoffs and all tie breakers.

    Lets send out for Chinese food Mark. We are done :)

    • http://Orlando Mark

      A little more than I can process. I’ll need a weeks extension(just kidding). The rookie pay scale is OK. The only reason I wanted more money in the pockets of the players immediately is to show them right now what a slotting system will mean to them. A little bit of sugar on the carrot. I love the deal with the 33 divvy up. Who’s buying.

    • Rick

      All 7rounds are for 3 years. That means Mr Irrelevent makes just under $100,000 per year. Like I said the veterans will get probably more than the 10% you asked for just so a team can meet the cap floor of $106 million. Max cap would be around $148million. Using the 7 Billion revenue. As that increase so will the caps.

    • 4205

      Sounds like a great plan – submit to the NFLPA.

      • Rick

        Thanks 4205.

        Sad thing there is no NFLPA to submit it to now.

        I am considering sending a more spell checked version to Dan Patrick Show, Mike and Mike, each NFL team, the agent and players involved with the anti-trust suit, and Goodell. I m also trying to find a non-twitter email for Adam Schecter.

        I already am set to call and try to speak with Mike Ditka on air on a station in downstate in Illinois. I googled and he apparently calls in for an hour or so each Monday. Maybe he can help.

        • 4205

          The only problem I see is that it doesn’t open the books to the players so they will not accept. They want the road map to recreate everything without the owners. Not a healthy situation

  • 4205

    I think Murphy’s thoughts – see packer report article – are pretty close. The owners want a CBA so the players can’t run to the legal system and turn it over to the lawyers every time they don’t like something. All the logic of our conjecture (and Rick’s is good) mean nothing when the lawyers get involved. The legal system should be in place to protect those that can’t protect themselves – that is not where this dispute should be. Unfortunately the progressive judges who answer to no one aren’t required to consider common sense – or justice – only the moronic employment laws a dysfunctional legislature has passed.

    If the union can’t see they have a great deal (and just want more) might as well just shut down the system. It will shut itself down with no CBA (although a few players will make more money for a few years – the fillins will be minimum wage – any agreement for certain salaries or benefits per player among teams will be deemed anti-competitive and stricken down) and then the owners and the union have nothing. It may work ok for the few teams that have owners that don’t care if they lose money, but ultimately the biggest pockets will prevail.

    • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

      First, regarding my two “throw aways”. The NFL gave up the 18 back to 16, but the players did not come off of the open the books.
      Unless I’m wrong it has always been a Union strategy to use seniority as a tool for solidarity. Hence, to keep what the elders have gained they sacrifice the newbies. Akin to your teacher thing. Layoffs to provide the $$ for the prior gains.
      If what you are saying here is true 42 the same thing was occuring in these talks. But isn’t that a prime reason for a Union – to reward seniority?

      • 4205

        The original purposes for unions were to allow the weak masses to stand up to the powerful bosses who just wanted to exploit them. It so happened that the seniority structure was created to allow those weak masses who joined first to remain in control and have a stable position on an ongoing basis.

        The purpose of a CBA in the context of sports teams is to allow for the teams to get the masses to agree to allow a certain amount of collusion in the name of leveling the playing field for competitive games – which based upon the recent up and down nature of records, super bowl winners and the on any given sunday mentality is working wonderfully.

        It appears the players are no longer willing to allow that collusion (minimum salaries, salary caps, OTA guidelines, etc). These protections benefit the masses at the expense of the stars – the seniority system backwards – thus the stars aren’t happy). The problem with their thought process is that without some agreed upon framework you will have an NBA situation where money wins and popularity wanes. The chance of Milwaukee winning 4 out of 7 against the Lakers, Spurs, Heat, Celts is miniscule. The chance of say Green Bay upsetting Atlanta or Philly or Chicago or Pittsburgh was more likely in the NFL – it happened. That type of competitiveness goes away without some sort of agreement.

        • http://Orlando Mark

          4205, I don’t know about the “masses” stuff but I agree the end of collective bargaining will ruin a great system for competition. Dan Snyder would finally be able to buy a championship. The stars would make more and the (lovable)grunts will be thrown away like bloody kleenex.

      • Steve Cheez

        The purpose of a union is to prevent bad employees from getting fired and to get people paid for not working.

        • http://Orlando Mark

          Steve, that is a monstrous, unsupportable tarring of people who want to negotiate better working conditions. Businesses join together for market advantage like lobbying on behalf of their members. Sometimes to the disadvantage of their customers and employees. Would you care to denigrate those organizations.
          I wouldn’t mind if we stopped the political rhetoric but I find it hard to abide this bunk, sorry.

          • iccyfan

            I started to address your “abide this bunk” comment but opted not to further this line of discussion. In studying business history many years ago, labor unions WERE very important in a number of areas, not the least of which was employee safety. Now unions are a great thing for union members; I’ll leave it at that…

          • http://Orlando Mark

            Thank you Iccy. I’m sure there are stories of abuses on both ends. But “this bunk” shouldn’t be on a fansite and I know it.

  • roy jamison

    Who really took the most risks to make the NFL into what it is today? It was the owners. Sure, they are making big money on TV contracts today, but in the 50s and 60s, that money wasn’t so great. Players seem to think the money curve will continue to shoot upward. That seldom is the case in any business. The players who are most at risk in this risky business are free agents who make little compared to their drafted bretheran. For instance should Sam Shields make far less than a Pat Lee? But that’s the system these knuckleheads love. In most businesses, you get paid on performance. In the NFL, you first make your money thru showing that you can indeed play the game, but at a lower level college game. Then, the (agents) do their spin, and in most cases players in the top three rounds are overpaid based on projections etc. I’d love to get paid millions today for the speculation that I’ll finally be a player 3 or 4 years from now.

    • http://Orlando Mark

      Roy, a lot of the current owners either inherited or bought teams since the time you mentioned. In many cases it was the fans who built the stadiums and kept the flame going. In some cases even after they were kicked in the teeth by owners who moved teams for more money elsewhere. As to the rest you’re exactly right.

  • Rick

    Well Ditka plan was a bust. They do not have call ins until after he is on the air. I did get a hold of the host and mentioned the 33 split plan and he loved it as did most callers.

    To the earlier line of posts.

    Unions allowed the workers to have strength to negotiate at a time when businesses/owners had all the rights and power. The pendulum has now swung to where the unions are a problem by looking out for themselves to the detriment of the industries the are in.

    The tire union had Bridgestone workers strike at the same time the Ford Explorers were rolling over and blowing tires. The strike ended after a year and the plants closed months later laying off the workers. They hurt the company and themselves, BTW the union survived, yahh!!

    The NFLPA is the same argument but playing a legal game since the NFL is one of the few monopolies allowed. They had such a great deal that they will give up the collective right to negotiate as a union to hide behind individual members suing the monopoly NFL because they now don’t have a union to represent the players since they, the players just decertified the union. Ugh.

    I hope Doty sees through this sham. If he makes the players negotiate as union this will be the fairest to both sides.

    • http://Orlando Mark

      Rick, I disagree on the union stuff. When 30% of workers were unionized they may have had too much power but that was back in the ’50′s. All the power is with the corporations now and we’re seeing an erosion of the middle class.
      To your effort to get some sense into the negotiations I hope you keep trying. The fans are with you if that means anything.

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

    This is going to be an unusual ride. It’s like watching and/or listening to the neighbors fight. In the long run you’re glad its not you and the outcome really has no bearing on your life.
    I think MM hit the nail on the head when he said this could even be advantageous to the Pack given the extra six games last year.
    We are in a position of cutting back, like a RIF if you will, and are interested in retention and improving and not building. Right off the bat that puts us ahead of at least a third of the league. Those on that tier just below us need the FA season and Pre a lot more than we do, in my mind.
    So, I’m going to relax and let them fight it out. I don’t understand the details anyway; too many other things on my bucket list to take care of than worry about a season six months away.

    • http://Orlando Mark

      L-T nothing else to talk about except the draft. I personally think we should make a real effort to improve the run game. A kick return guy and a compliment to CMIII are also on the wish list.

      • Rick

        Assuming that teams will draft not knowing pay system and amount of time for FA and training camps. I see a lot of QB selections slide to round 3-5. A lot of position Defensive players that can play right away and OTs are going to be the heavy draft picks in round 1 and 2.

        As such GB will benefit again from BAP drafting. My gut says CBs will be the value pick where GB picks.

  • http://Orlando Mark

    Anyone have an idea how the lockout will affect draft day trading?

    • Rick

      Trades can by for picks only, no players at all. Once drafted the team can issue a congratulations call can then NADA until a plan is in effect.

      • http://Orlando Mark

        That stinks because we have more valuable redundant players than anyone. Thanks for the info.

      • Rick

        Well we will see on April 6th. A different Judge than Doty will hear the injunction.

        If the Judge issues an injunction stopping the lockout then everything will be back to 2010′s rules while waiting for the NFL to appeal.

        Then FA will start right away and trades and all rules from last year will be in effect. What is sad is that if an injunction is granted that the “former” NFLPA will still recommend the rookie players skip coming to the Draft in New York.

  • Rick

    To use a Rocky70 analogy

    DART ONE – 2011 NFL DRAFT
    Round 1
    1. Carolina (2-14) Nick Fairly, DT Auburn
    2. Denver (4-12) Patrick Peterson, CB LSU
    3. Buffalo (4-12) AJ Green WR, Georgia
    4. Cincinnati (4-12) DaQuan Bowers, DE Clemson
    5. Arizona (5-11) Von Miller, DE/OLB Texas A&M
    6. Cleveland (5-11) Marcell Dareus, NT/DT Alabama
    7. San Francisco (6-10) Robert Quinn, DE/OLB North Carolina
    8. Tennessee (6-10) Prince Amukamara, CB Nebraska
    9. Dallas (6-10) Anthony Castonzo, OT Boston College
    10. Washington (6-10) Tyson Smith, OT USC
    11. Houston (6-10) Aldon Smith, DE/OLB Missouri
    12. Minnesota (6-10) Cam Newton, QB Auburn
    13. Detroit (6-10) Nate Solder, OT Colorado
    14. St. Louis (7-9) Julio Jones, WR Alabama
    15. Miami (7-9) Mark Ingram, RB Alabama
    16. Jacksonville (8-8) Cameron Jordan, DE California
    17. New England – from Oakland (8-8) J.J. Watt, DE/DT Wisconsin
    18. San Diego (9-7) Corey Liuget, DT Illinois
    19. New York Giants (10-6) Akeem Ayers, OLB UCLA
    20. Tampa Bay (10-6) Adrian Clayborn, DE Iowa
    21. Kansas City* (10-6) Mikel Leshore, RB Illinois
    22. Indianapolis* (10-6) Gabe Carimi, OT Wisconsin
    23. Philadelphia* (10-6) Derek Sherrod, OT Mississippi State
    24. New Orleans* (11-5) Ryan Kerrigan, DE Purdue
    25. Seattle* (7-9) Brandon Harris, CB Miami
    26. Baltimore* (12-4) Jimmy Smith, CB Colorado
    27. Atlanta* (13-3) Torrey Smith, WR Maryland
    28. New England* (14-2) Mike Pouncey, OG Florida
    29. Chicago* (11-5) Cameron Heyward, DE/DT Ohio State
    30. New York Jets* (11-5) Justin Houston, OLB Georgia
    31. Pittsburgh* (12-4) Muhammad Wilkerson, DT Temple
    32. Green Bay* (10-6) Aaron Williams, CB/ST Texas
    I really believe that NE at #17 will look to trade down and will do so. The pick I am making assumes that Belichik does use his pick here. Since I am a Packer homer, Aaron Williams is the 33 value player on my big board and he is a CB/ Nickel/ ST ace – he blocked 4 punts and has numerous ST tackles. It is because there is more need at CB for depth than Stephen Paea for D line depth that I feel the pick is another Williams for Green Bay.

    Round 2
    1. New England – from Carolina (2-14) Steve Wisniewski, C Penn State
    2. Buffalo (4-12) Phil Taylor, NT Baylor
    3. Cincinnati (4-12) Ryan Williams, RB Virginia Tech
    4. Denver (4-12) Stephen Paea, DT Oregon State
    5. Cleveland (5-11) Martez Wilson, ILB Illinois
    6. Arizona (5-11) Danny Watkins, OL Baylor
    7. Tennessee (6-10) Blaine Gabbert, QB Missouri
    8. Dallas (6-10) Christian Ballard, DE Iowa
    9. Washington (6-10) Jake Locker, QB Washington
    10. Houston (6-10) Jon Baldwin, WR Pittsburgh
    11. Minnesota (6-10) DeAndre McDaniel, S Clemson
    12. Detroit (6-10) Rahim Moore, S UCLA
    13. San Francisco (6-10) Drake Nevis, DT LSU
    14. Denver – from Miami (7-9) Jabaal Sheard, DE/OLB Pittsburgh
    15. St. Louis (7-9) Rodney Hudson, OG Florida State
    16. Oakland (8-8) Brooks Reed, OLB Arizona
    17. Jacksonville (8-8) Leonard Hankerson, WR Miami
    18. San Diego (9-7) Benjamin Ijalana, OG Villanova
    19. Tampa Bay (10-6) DeAndre McDaniel, S Clemson
    20. New York Giants (10-6) Jerrel Jernigan, WR/KR/PR Troy
    21. Indianapolis* (10-6) Ahmad Black, S Florida
    22. Philadelphia* (10-6) Christian Ponder, QB Florida
    23. Kansas City* (10-6) Quinton Carter, FS Oklahoma
    24. New Orleans* (11-5) Marvin Austin, DT North Carolina
    25. Seattle* (7-9) Titus Young, WR Boise State
    26. Baltimore* (12-4) Allen Bailey, DE Miami
    27. Atlanta* (13-3) Kyle Rudolph, TE Notre Dame
    28. New England* (14-2) Kendall Hunter, RB Oklahoma St
    29. San Diego – from New York Jets*(11-5)Randall Cobb, WR Kentucky
    30. Chicago* (11-5) Marcus Cannon, OT TCU
    31. Pittsburgh* (12-4) Davon House, CB New Mexico St
    32. Green Bay* (10-6) Curtis Brown, CB Texas
    I really believe the GB will trade out of the #64 pick. Whether to move up in the first or down for picks. There is minimal value and only character concern players in this value range. The 57 value player on my big board is Curtis Brown and he is a man to man CB with minimal zone experience but an absolute special teams ace for tackles. I can see Underwood and Lee being challenged by Aaron Williams and Curtis Brown.

    • http://Orlando Mark

      Gabbert would be such a bargain that I could see TT taking him and trying to trade Flynn for a 3 at some later date. The Vikes would be stupid to take another Tavaris Jackson type. Don’t know much about Solder or Heyward.

      • Rick

        Gabbert needs work as a QB and I have him 15 on the big board but in the 30s for the Packers board. QBs will slide because of lack of training camp and putting in playbook.

        Vikings- New coach, new QB. Craig Johnson was the Pro Bowl Guru for Steve McNair, Kerry Collins, and Vince Young. He was promoted to Asst Head Coach but was shuffled out in Tennessee. So he is an excellent mobile big arm QB teacher. Hopefully Newton is not looney like Vince was.

        Nate Solder – OT 6’8″ Colorado beast. Everyone loves him. Technique wise how ever he drops his hands and loses leverage. He needs to be coached up for a year or so.

        Cameron Heyward- DE/DT Ohio State is the man I want GB to take if available 6’5″ 295lbs plays 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT – Can develop into a Pickett type player on the line. I just don’t see him making it to GB though.

    • iccyfan

      Always respect your work, Rick, but man this draft would disappoint me! I suppose you can never have too many corners, but we’re seemingly fine with CWood, Tramon, Shields, Pat Lee, Underwood, Josh Bell, Josh Gordy & J. Bush (gawd, did I just type that?!?). Pat Lee did fine in the SB; hopefully that’s the kick-start he needs to be the guy who pushes Shields, etc.

      If your scenario were to come to pass, I’d hope TT would trade down with somebody who wanted Gabbert. There are players in your early second, who while not rated as high on your value board, would be better fits for the Packers both now and in the future. Heck man, even my lowly ISU Cyclones beat Tejas this year and you have us taking TWO Shorthorn corners? C’mon man!!!

      • iccyfan

        Also, Philly has cast their lot with Vick and most likely won’t have had an opportunity to deal Kolb; you really think they’re gonna take Ponder?

  • Pierre

    Heyward or another quality DE should be the Packers first pick of this draft. With Jenkins probably leaving, Jolly’s legal status, Pickett’s age and health questions with Neal and Harrell they will need to shore up the D line and make sure it can dominate the line of scrimmage during games in order to stop the run and let the linebackers be most effective getting to the QBs.

  • Rick

    Adrian Peterson said he feels like he is in a slave relationship with NFL owners. Wow. Just wow.

    • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

      History major?

    • http://Orlando Mark

      Some stupid moves by the union including asking draftees to boycott the tv event. Small minded and counter productive. As far as dumb player comments I’ll bet there’ll be a lot more before this is over.

    • Rick

      You are probably right Mark.

    • Steve Cheez

      If that’s what it means to be a slave, sign me up.

    • Steve Cheez

      Pretty good reply from Ryan Grant.

  • Larry

    Rick, kudos for going on record with the first 2011 official draft picks. I’m considerably lazier than you and will post only my round 1 & 2 Packer picks. By preface….I believe BPA for the 32nd is going to be a QB falling which TT will NOT pick…he may trade it… Only Seattle needs a QB in the back half of the draft leaving a good one available at 32.

    32nd…Gabe Carimi…OT….Wisconsin

    64……Ryan Williams….RB….Virginia Tech

    W/O, DL, CB fill out the draft.

    Don’t bother to bank on it…not likely correct…LOL

    • Rick

      The draft helps take my mind off the stupidity. I sent out the “fan proposal” to the varies places I mentioned. No answer, no response.

      It will be interesting to see what the BPA is

      • http://Orlando Mark

        Maybe you could e-mail Mark Murphy. He used to be the player rep for the Redskins and ask his opinion. He will probably reply.

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

    Under a cap senario what happens if a team ignores it and over pays intentionally? Do they get fined, do they have to cut someone, do they forfeit; what is the penalty?

    • Rick

      Good question LT.

      If the federal judge approves an injunction against the league to stop the lock out then the NFL is under the 2010 no cap ceiling or floor rules.

      Under the previous cap system if at the end of any business day the team was not under the hard cap a penalty depending on the overage is charged to the team (not to exceed $5 million). If not corrected the commish then eliminates contracts, last one signed, then the next and the next, until the guilty team is under the cap.

  • Steve Cheez

    Enough lockout/decert/slavery talk. Who needs the NFL anyway? We’ve got arena football coming back to Stockton, baby. Well, the American Indoor Football Association (Western Division), to be exact. Coming April 8.
    Wait a sec, that’s just lame, isn’t it?

    • Rick

      LOL

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

    Because of being on top I only have interest in Packer pick no. 1 this year. Plain and simple he has to be a starter. He will have to compete, and beat out an incumbent. Where is that possible on a SB winning team? That comes down to a RB, OLB, DE, or unlikely but a maybe, a CB. CB only if you contemplate a Woody move to safety.

    So, if you consider no.32 a real 2nd rounder the guy will be a backup for the near future. A lot of playing time maybe, but a backup none the less. Looks to me like a trade down situation ’cause I don’t see any of the names in the mocks at LB or DE as starters from day 1 regardless of the Jenkins or Jones(LB) situations. There are quality backups at those two primary positions on the roster right now and a rookie will not put our no. 2 depth chart guys on the bench. Look for draft swaps downward, guys, UNLESS TT can trade up for a Von Miller kind of pick who would be an instant starter.

    Anyway, I cant get away from the fact that there are really no glaring holes on our SB winning roster……..!

    • Rick

      Kind of nice position to be in.
      Wow from outside of playoffs looking in with over half a team of player on IR and fire TT rants on fan sites to Super Bowl Champions with a lot of talent coming back to challenge for roster spots.

  • Matt Hayton

    Hi Al -

    Saw you ripping on us haters. Willingly admit, I was wrong and happy I was! Better to be wrong and have won a SB than right and be a cellar dweller for the next 10 years! Hopefully, they can get this CBA worked out, so we cna repeat! Go Pack Go!

  • Larry

    Not so fast with this “not many needs talk” GB and TT draft to the future in mind…one/two/three years out…given that as a stage and the seemingly old age threshhold of 30, there is considerable work to do…2 years out there is likely no Clifton, Grant, Woodson as CB, Pickett, Jenkins (if not gone this year), and a need for backup ILB’s, OLB, and a CB or 2.

    To the extent that anyone wants to say the “dynasty” word this really is a critical draft for the starting lineup of 2012 assuming a CBA…(just joking)…

    If TT can draft a couple of starters to the 2012 team from this draft class..and get them some experience, this could be a nice deep playoff run for a handful of years.

    • Rick

      Best Player Available helps keep the holes to a minimum and the overall quality of depth high so you do not have to overpay for veteran talent. I think we are all saying the same thing.

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

    Stumbling block: Pete Kendall, Permanent Player Representative of NFLPA states NFL refused to disclose Executive and Ownership salaries and this a roadblock to settlement. Talk about “throw aways”. Like I would ever give the employee a wage breakdown for all supervisors and managers in the company – give me a break – just plain nuts to even ask for.

    • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

      I guess a footnote would be that the more one learns of the various demands of the players the more stupid Smith looks. He seems to have fed the players a lot of unreasonable stuff to demand to justify his own existance. And now, they seem to have found a friendly (history) Judge; good Lord, bringing the legal system into a non-essential form of entertainment.

  • Rick

    Go Wisconsin!!

  • http://Orlando Mark

    A possible emergency has turned up that we can vote on. Apparently they’re taking votes on who should be on the cover of Madden 12. The threat is that the obvious recipriant would be our #12. The trouble is that anyone who gets on the cover has a miserable following season, The Madden Curse. Any ideas on how to avert impending doom.