Jennings and Rodgers a dynamic duo
The Green Bay Packers locked up their number two most important player this week by making Greg Jennings the second highest paid wide receiver in the NFL. I don’t have any problem comparing Jennings with Larry Fitzgerald of the Arizona Cardinals, all both of them do is make big plays. And in Jennings case, he has one of the NFL’s best young quarterbacks also locked up for the foreseeable future and nothing but big things can be expected of both. This has the makings of a record-breaking combination that rarely happens in today’s NFL.
This is another example of the Packers taking care of their core players and not risking money on over-the-hill or never-have-been free agents. Rodgers got his money last year, Jennings this year. I expect guys like Daryn Colledge, Jason Spitz and Johnny Jolly to be next. I think the Packers will hold off on Nick Collins, whose value has dropped with every day he missed learning the new defense this offseason. The Packers are deep in the secondary and unlike last year with running back Ryan Grant, I doubt very highly that they will give in to Collins. Colledge and Spitz are more important if you ask me. Keeping Rodgers healthy should be top priority.
One thing is sure and that is Jennings will not be an Antonio Freeman and disappear after getting big money. Jennings is a class act and sets a huge example in the locker room and on the field. The Packers certainly got a steal when they took him with the 52nd in the 2006 draft. All he has done from day one is start and average 16 yards a catch and hauled in 24 TDs in three years, 21 of them coming in the last two seasons alone. The guy is a big play machine and if he and Rodgers stay healthy the Packers are going to be tough to stop.
If it was my money, I’d lock up Colledge and Spitz next, and try to steal Ryan Pickett and Atari Bigby for a reasonable price and let Collins and Aaron Kampman play a few games in 2009 before making a decision. The later two are not happy and do not appear all that thrilled about the new defense, so no need to rush to pay those guys. If it turns out they excel in the new scheme then the Packers will take care of them.
Man I can’t wait for the season to begin. I think training camp is going to be very positive and expectations will be high as well. With all that has transpired since the end of last season’s disappointing 6-10 record it is hard to argue the Packers haven’t taken huge steps in the right direction. The fruits of their labor will not begin to be known for another six weeks, but as an owner, I like the way my team is shaping up. Confidence is high.
June 26th, 2009 at 3:28 am
I like Matt Hayton’s post on the last thread and agree that Collins needs to provide more proof that he is worth the $3M let alone an extension in that range. Freeman sure comes to mind. As to Kampman, he has proven his worth to the team but not yet in the coverage aspect of the 3-4. Maybe the system switch was a cruel blow to him but he certainly has more value than Collins in my opinion. Colledge and Spitz definitely. They’ll most likely be around a long, long time. Same for Pickett. I, for one, think that Collins has more competition on the current roster than he realizes and he will be starting out behind. I hope he is a quick study, because this system puts more onus on him to make the proper calls, rather just go out there and freelance.
June 26th, 2009 at 6:33 am
I don’t think Collins’ value dropped because he wasn’t in camp. He never had much value because of the position he plays. Safetys, like tight ends and fullbacks don’t get big money. The only knock I saw last year was that he dropped some ints but was in the right position. Bigby and Rouse weren’t very good last year and Bush and Smith were awful. It’s not like mistakes weren’t made in the past both with the safety position and with handling contract negotiations. I hope that some lessons were learned.
June 26th, 2009 at 10:55 am
I have to say I agree with almost every one of Al’s points. We can see what Kampman and Collins do this season before making a big money decision.
My only mild disagreement is over the value of Colledge and Spitz. I’m not saying I don’t want to keep them, just that I haven’t been bolled over by either one. They have some value, but certainly I don’t consider either one a dominant lineman.
I posted about the potential of Rodgers/Jennings in the last thread. Suffice to say, these two should do BIG things and we should all be rightfully excited about it. I also agree with the assessment of Jennings as a high character guy that will lead on the field and in the locker room.
June 26th, 2009 at 11:14 am
daryn college- sign him up next.
dominant? well, i wouldn’t really call him dominant. but he is still getting better.
steadfast, reliable, more room to get better…???? friggen hell yeah
June 26th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
I have to say that I agree pretty much with you Al……other than the Fitzgerald comparison……not even close. I would like to see Collins signed though. Bad safeties can kill you.
June 26th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Just wanted to point out I didn’t bring that back up, lol!
June 26th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Oh, I see the point to which I referred has now been deleted. Now you see it, now you don’t!
June 26th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
Jon (BillyRay/STMills/etc.) is banned by popular demand. Sorry, but it is what it is.
June 26th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
He clearly couldn’t stand that the conversation here for the past week moved past you-know-who and the GM and on to current players, because he’s got nothing else. So pathetic.
June 26th, 2009 at 4:50 pm
BillyRay we hardly knew ye.
June 26th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
No need to be sorry, we’ve had plenty of that over the last week and it doesn’t belong in this thread in any case. Just wonder how you’re so sure it’s the same guy.
June 26th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
Trust me, we know. And packer_bob, it’s nice to see someone able to argue against Packernet’s POV without being a total douche about it. Keep up the good work.
June 26th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
10-4, good buddy!
June 27th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
I dunno about this “management always makes the correct decision” implicaton of the article. Counterproductive and lacks any critical analysis of the situation.
“This is another example of the Packers taking care of their core players.”
Im not a big Collins fan but if a Pro Bowl safety isnt one of your “core players” then management has made a horrible mistake and this needs to be explained.
Second if Grant and Poppinga were considered as “core players” and were taken care of I dont see how Collins issues havent been addressed in a more positive, forthright manner by the Packer management.
Both Grant and Poppinga, as does Chillar, still have much to prove to live up to their relatively big paydays.
Grant will start again by default and Poppinga well is Poppinga all talk and no show.
Serious double standards have been set-up by TT and leaves alot of players confused about what their futures are and how they should handle it.
It bodes ill for the Packers future success in general.
TT is a horrible communicator and that has/is causing undue stress in the locker room.
Spitz and Colledge can wait till after the season is concluded to eiither be rewarded or traded/ released. Neither has performed at a level to justify a big payday to date.
Same with Bigby.
Kampman and Pickett are probably in the final year of their Packer careers.
No way either gets another big payday from the Packers even IF both scenarios occur 1) the Packers win the Super Bowl and 2) Each player makes the Pro Bowl.
Still despite my misgivings on Packer management I predict a 12-4 season given the very advantageous schedule.
IF the Packers dont take advantage of this fotutitous 2009 scheduling then a decade of unrelenting mediocrity is sure to follow.
June 27th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
I don’t think the point of the article was that management is always right. Management has taken a path of rewarding from within and eschewing big name (or often any name) FA’s. One can argue if this is the right path or not (I for one have been extremely critical for some FA moves we didn’t pull the trigger on) but as a statement of fact, this is correct.
Collins very well may be next in line to be taken care of, and I like him as a player, but the long and the short of it is he has one break out season. I think Grant jumped to “core player” status in part because of out weakness at the position overall after 2007. Still, didn’t he rush for 1200 yards last season?
As far as double standards, the reality is decisions have to be made. I am on the record (a long winded and well worn record, mind you) as being very critical of TT for his lack of communication with a certain well known ex-Packer, so if you are right about the feelings of some in the locker room I completely understand your point. But there is still only so many players who can be retained, so you make your choices, pay your money, and take your chances.
I think there’s a good chance we can retain some of these other players for reasonable but not profligate expenditures down the line. Lord knows I’ve had my disagreements with Al but this article is the closest I’ve ever been to giving him an “A”. (It’s still just a B+ though, so don’t get a big head.)
June 27th, 2009 at 8:27 pm
C’mon PackerBob give him an A-!
June 27th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
@ stick56
You list all negatives & then predict a 12-4 record in 2009. Very little logic on your part. Just another anti-TT post. Boring………….
@ PB
It still appears that you cannot or are unwilling to contemplate a complete post without referring to your ‘chosen one’. I throw up a little each time I read your obsessive posts. BF has absolutely nothing to do with this blog. Is it just impossible for you to put together a few thoughts without interjecting your idol ?? Sad.
June 28th, 2009 at 7:05 am
Having just read justawake and stick56 I can no longer support TT or the Packers. They have proven to me the utter folly of following such an inept team that has absolutely no chance under TT’s direction and cannot win with the terrible roster and coaching staff we (no change that) they have. I don’t now know who I will support or if I can even get interested in football this year. I’m so disappointed, I thought the Pack would have been better this year, but as long as TT is here I guess not. Thanks to stick56, who in detail has shown me the real quality of that team.
June 28th, 2009 at 8:40 am
Punk, I hate to defend TT. He’s made some bad mistakes, mostly regarding contracts and evaluating veterans. But he has had some successes. Right now he’s an average GM. Wolf and Vainisi(the GM without the title) were way above average and Starr, Gregg, Devine and Sherman were below average. In other words, we’ve done worse. Plus TT really responded after the 4-12 season and made some good moves this year. We just have to cross our fingers and try to be patient. Some of our too young players are maturing and next season is going to be exciting.
June 28th, 2009 at 8:49 am
Unfortunately you are correct Punk.
The anti-TT (Farve Apologists) have such a dire assessment of the Pack that the question becomes, ‘Why even play the season?’.
What will happen to all the apologists? There is no doubt that someday BF will be back in the good graces of PackerNation. But what does a fan base do with those who claim to be Packer Fans but find it neccessary to continually trash the team ??
It is no wonder that Viking & Bear fans have such a low opinion of Packer Fans. The apologists & anti-TT crowd are an embarassment to all ‘real’ Packer Fans. They are being laughed at by the rest of the NFL fan base. Anyone who doesn’t believe this just needs to visit a few Jet, Bear & Viking forums or blogs. These so-called PackFans are seen as a joke. Sorry but it is what it is.
June 28th, 2009 at 9:40 am
Well, pro/con TT doesn’t really matter where I sit; I just sit back and enjoy my team win or lose. I do know were better than most and we’re going to win the Division. Also, there are only 32 of those guys out there now and I’m willing to hang around for a couple of more years, at least, to see how it all turns out. Looking back St. Vincent ended up w/ a pretty lousy team and the latest hero, Holmgren, didn’t end up to great either, so who knows?
June 28th, 2009 at 10:48 am
My real point was, Mark, that there is a lot of luck associated with a GM job too. I suppose in the end a measurement is wins and losses. The draft is always a crap shoot and FA, in my opinion, is a bigger gamble. TT just runs it (albeit, with no personality) the way I think I would. Build through the draft with a select few “cheap” FAs, extend the contracts (w/reward) for the achievers, and build a 1st class coaching staff. All the while with a look to the bottom line $wise. Not easy when you are dependant on the performance of others, but isn’t that what a manager does? I still feel, in the end, he will be successful and all of us will be glad he is here. I’m far from a zealot, but he has not done such a poor job in my estimation to be fired, not by a long shot.
June 28th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
St. Vincent gave the Skins their first winning season in 14 years and Holmgren got to the SB with Hasselbeck as his QB. Those were major achievements for those franchises.
June 28th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
Rocky,
Have you even read any of my posts in a non-Favre related thread? Even in the post you are complaining about, I wrote four paragraphs and did not even mention him by name. What I was referring was directly related to the previous poster’s point about TT’s lack of communication and the effect it had in the locker room.
You then, in your very next post, launch into your familiar screed about Favre apologists. Does the word hypocritical mean anything to you?
I’ve got news for you Rocky–most “real” fans, as you like to proclaim them, probably don’t spend much time trolling Jet, Bear and Viking forums and they sure as hell wouldn’t by bothered by what is said about Packer fans on those hostile sites. Let me get this straight–You read on a BEAR (or Viking or Jets) site that Packer fans are a joke and according to you, “it is what it is.” You’re buying in to what you read on opponents sites? If you’re getting brainwashed by blogs about opposing teams it might be time to question just who you are a fan of.
Re-read this thread and see who brought up what. When you issue me a full unconditional apology, I might start taking you seriously.
June 28th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
Back to the points about TT, I think he’s made some good decisions and some horrible mistakes. We aren’t at the pinnacle but nor are we one of the door mats. To me this, season is very important in evaluating TT over all. If we don’t have a plus .500 with this schedule, it’s time to get somebody else.
And Mark, thank you for dropping a little knowledge on these guys. Who knows how far Lombardi would have taken the Skins had he not died after that first season? George Allen got to a Super Bowl with many of the same players a short time later. And I’m tired of this impression that Holmgren didn’t do anything after leaving the Packers. He gave the Seahawks franchise the most success they ever had and is a damn fine coach. I wish people would quit being delusional and acting like he never had any success after he left Green Bay.
June 28th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
Packer-bob I have to admit I never have been on another team fan site. That was kind of odd. When my family moved from Milwaukee in 1959 the only way I could find out about the Pack was to get week old Journal papers from the Miami main library. Times have really changed.
June 28th, 2009 at 7:15 pm
PB, thanks for the common sense and you raise the best question of all: Why would a Packers’ fan be visiting a Jets or Vikings’ blog? If it were any other team I could maybe brush it off as reconnoissance, but the coincidence can’t be ignored.
Mike Holmgren has been very successful in Seattle. He’s only had a couple of losing seasons and became just the 5th coach in NFL history to lead two different teams to the Super Bowl. I would love to see Holmgren return to the organization in some form, but I think the Packers will be too successful this season to have any openings. Like Lombardi, Holmgren is a class act and never once uttered a bad word about the Packers or their fans. I was upset when Holmgren left, but only for selfish reasons.
June 28th, 2009 at 8:32 pm
And Mike Holmgren would like another $8 million a year gig.
June 28th, 2009 at 8:47 pm
Funny thing about Holmgren. He wanted Wolf’s GM job but wasn’t good at it in Seattle and was replaced. I think TT got him many of the players for that SB. A side question if anyone knows. The Milwaukee Journal had a green sheet for sports, do they still have it?
June 28th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
I don’t pretend to know the truth, but my impression from the media is that TT deserved the personnel credit for that Seahawks SB run.
As far as Holmgren as GM, maybe he could be good if that’s all he did but it’s too much for one man to be both GM and coach. I would love to see him back in Green Bay but Roy raises a good point: at what price?
I do totally agree with Al’s opinion as far as Holmgren being a class act and a quality person. I was upset that he left but I understood why. It’s too bad he couldn’t have hung on because didn’t Wolf retire just a couple of seasons later?
June 29th, 2009 at 5:38 am
My comments on VL and MH have gotten completely turned around. First, they were, and are, as close to personal HEROs as I’ve ever had. Second, they both turned the franchise around; Lombardi is why I became a Packer fan in the first place and I admit Mike had a lot of help from Wolf. My point was GMship and how really hard it is. Vince left GB in terrible shape, and Holmgren did not lead SEA to a dynasty. Simple as that!
June 29th, 2009 at 7:24 am
Punk, you’re right. Coach combined with GM doesn’t work. Parcells and Shula couldn’t do it. Paul Brown is the only one I can think of who was his own personnel guy that was successful.
June 29th, 2009 at 7:34 am
Didn’t think of that aspect, Mark, but it sure seems true. One difference, if it matters, though is that Brown owned those great CLE teams but I’m not sure if he had ownership in CIN. In any case, if he owned CIN, he sure didn’t do much there.
June 29th, 2009 at 7:43 am
I’d be willing to bet we could spend the whole day debating “good decisions” and “horrible mistakes” TT has made. I’ll go back to a comment I made a couple of months ago. I don’t think TT makes personel decisions in a vacuum w/o input from coaching staff, scouts, or McKensies(?) guys.
June 29th, 2009 at 7:57 am
Just a follow up. Shula probably did the most with the talent he had but without a good personnel man even the best coach can only do so much. Parcells had Geoge Young, Shula had Joe Thomas(not Beathard who took over after Thomas built the team), Lombardi had Vainisi. Little known people who were very important to their teams successes.
June 29th, 2009 at 8:41 am
Punk, the one thing I don’t get about TT’s supporters is they keep making excuses for him. That it’s the fault of “bad input” when he screws up is pretty lame. Wolf drafted Reynolds, that stiff from FSU, and no one felt they had to blame his staff. All GMs have hits and misses even Millen had a couple of hits. You have to look at the body of work, the results. Millen’s was bad, Wolf’s was good and TT falls somewhere in the middle.
June 29th, 2009 at 9:03 am
I agree totally. But I’m not a quick hook. I don’t make excuses, I do think, however, that the good outweighs the bad. I think that both the ‘07 and ‘08 were anomalys and even without them he has not done it yet. But, the big but, I think this team is much better, record or not, than what was here when he came in. At least we have a hell of a lot better coaching staff if nothing else…….!
June 29th, 2009 at 9:34 am
Punk Says: “I think that both the ‘07 and ‘08 (campaigns) were anomalies. But, the big but, I think this team is much better, record or not, than what was here when he came in.”
In two sentences you have captured the essense of the great gulf that divides the two factions on this board (on the issue of TT). The Merrill Lynch crowd (do it the old fashioned way, earn it) sees the improvement of the overall roster and the potential for long-term success, and is willing to ride out short-term fluctuations. The E-Trade crowd demands immediate returns, has incredibly high expectations and wants them to continue indefinitely.
June 29th, 2009 at 9:50 am
YEP!
June 29th, 2009 at 9:53 am
Punk,
No GM makes decisions in a vacuum. One man can’t personally evaluate the reams of information these guys gather on a host of players for evaluatation, both in the draft and in FA. I would assume most also seek some opinions from their coaching staffs.
But at the end of the day, the GM makes the call and is responsible for the decision. You’re right that we could debate about the merits of some of the decisions–I still think it was stupid not to grab Randy Moss from Oakland for what I consider to have been a very bargain price but there are others that would disagree. Unless Harell breaks out, I think most of us could agree that was a wasted draft pick.
But I think Mark is right: taken in its totality, right now TT is a fair to middling GM and our record under his tenure supports that.
June 29th, 2009 at 10:12 am
Wait a minute, how long has Thompson been here now iccy? I don’t think being concerned about a 6-10 record 4 years into a GM’s tenure makes me an instant gratification, Etrade kind of guy. I don’t think TT has been terrible in totality but I’m not convinced he is that great either. If we’re so much better off than when he took over, Punk, why have we had only one winning season since he’s been here? We won our division 2 or 3 years in a row before he got here and were a 4th and 26 away from an NFC championship appearance, so not let’s act like we sucked before he arrived.
That’s why for me, so much regarding Thompson (and McCarthy for that matter) hinges on this season. Or are you still going to be in Merrill Lynch mode if we go sub 500 again this season?
June 29th, 2009 at 10:22 am
Actually, by the way, it was Smith-Barney that used to have those great commercials with John Houseman—”We earrrrrrn it!”
June 29th, 2009 at 10:23 am
I submit we sucked and were headed for oblivion. Like it or not he was told to rebuild and neither 07 or 08 is true measurement.
June 29th, 2009 at 10:28 am
What, for one injury riddled season? His 6-10 is an anomaly, but that 4-12 was headed toward oblivion after all the division wins? That doesn’t hardly seem fair.
It also completely ignores the fact that change was going to come no matter who was brought in. Whether that change would have been better or worse than TT is impossible to say.
June 29th, 2009 at 10:46 am
IMHO opinion - There are no excuses now, NONE….Favre distraction is gone (or atleast one state away; time to “rebuild” has been granted and you you now have all of “Your” players and coaches in place, so it better frickin work! And, FYI, breaking in a defense isn’t an excuse in my book, not when it was your decision as the head coach to do so. If we aren’t ATLEAST 9-7 then I think they need to go. TT is in year 5, MM in year 4. If you cannot produce a winning record with this much time, then you never will. Plain and simple. If they do however, get that done then I will feel pretty good about our future. This to me is a make or break season for all of the guys running the show over at 1265.
June 29th, 2009 at 10:54 am
I’ve drawn the conclusion that the analysis of TT starts and ends with Favre. Noone will convince me that TT was not brought in to get rid of him. If I start with that premise (which I can’t prove) I compare the #s which I haven’t seen here. Brett threw for 4k yds on 356 atts, Aaron 4k on 341; they both had 28 tds with Arod 2 less ints. Brett’s comp. rate was 66% and Rodgers 63 so I think the QB was a wash. The #s above are 07 vs 08. You throw intangibles at me and I’m going to throw injuries right back at ya! Of course 4-12 was an anomaly. Hard to do but look at the future in 05 and 06 and compare to now. I would much rather have these guys, top to bottom, on the sideline and on the field.
June 29th, 2009 at 11:22 am
I’ve never felt that TT was brought in to axe Favre, but I think he was trying to show him the door almost immediately after he got here while saying otherwise.
Anyway, I disagree that the analysis starts and ends there. The analysis starts and ends with the win-loss record, period. You’re right in that the cupboards were getting bare in 05 and on paper we look better now. But on paper I would have said the same thing about last year’s team and we got 6-10.
I am optimistic about the future as well, but optimism and accomplishment are two separate things. I need to see the latter this year.
June 29th, 2009 at 11:40 am
Ditto to Matt Hayton, good post.
June 29th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
P-B & Matt - I agree with you on the fact that the 2009 Packers will be Ted’s team, built to his blueprints and specifications. I believe there are only seven Sherman-era players left on the expanded TC roster (Driver, Clifton, Kampman, Harris, Barnett, Jenkins & Wells). This season will be telling…
Good catch on my Smith-Barney / Merrill Lynch mix-up, but my message remains the same. If the Packers go 7-9, I’m probably not leaving my established broker for Scott Trade! Things happen and I’m becoming more tolerant in solid middle-age….
June 29th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
Throwing out the baby with the bath water come to mind?
June 29th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
TT wasn’t brought in to get rid of #4. He was brought in to run a football team. It’s the same as running a company, you need to know who is going to work for you and who isn’t so you can draft, plan, etc. It’s called commitment, #4 was more like the Japanese Kamikazie pilot who flew 8 missions, he just wasn’t committed.
I agree with Matt Hayton, other than a bunch of really significant injuries to really key players, no excuses. The time is now.
June 29th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
Iccy,
If we can’t do better than 7-9 this year, I think it’s time for a change. That doesn’t mean we have to get Dewey, Cheatham and Howe financial firm. It doesn’t mean you have to go with some fly-by-the-seat-of-my-pants kind of guy.
How long do you stick with an “established” broker if said broker is costing you money. In other words, if you’re willing to accept 7-9 this season, what about the next season, and the one after that? And what exactly has TT done to count as an “established” broker in the first place? If the 7-9 this season came to pass, TT would have the following record: 4-12, 8-8, 13-3, 6-10, 7-9. In this scenario it looks like your broker is good only at brokering you into being broke.
That high water mark of 13-3 will begin to look more and more like Aberration Island in the Sea of Mediocrity if we don’t show some significant improvement this year. I’m not saying we have to get the Super Bowl but finishing above .500 should be the minimum acceptable outcome imo.
June 29th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Well, we can agree to disagree about your 1st sentance but I have seen it done in the workplace just that way and was why I posited it. I don’t think Matt, however, will accept injuries to really key players, which is, of course why I think things went so badly last year and put a lot of guys and the program at least a year behind. As to the change in D was that done because of who was available, the utter failure last year injuries or not, the draft coming up, or we just didn’t have the right people on the field at the right spots? We’ll have to wait until someone writes the first book.
June 29th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
I’m with you Punk. Games were difficult to watch last year because the D was unimaginative and porous in the 4th Quarter. Our special teams were abysmal. Bob Sanders and Mike Stock may be fine coaches but they failed to garner performance from their personnel. They’re gone and TT opened the team pocketbook for known quality in Dom Capers & company. I’ll be greatly disappointed if the Pack isn’t 10-6 or better. Having said this, I still wouldn’t be calling for anybody’s head if things go awry..
June 29th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
You know, we don’t talk much about it, but those specials last year were, in a word, horrible! I was shocked because I thought that was a strong suit in 07 and couldn’t believe what I was seeing. Gee, I wonder if injuries could have played a part?
June 29th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
Another sign of good management? After 07 things looked pretty good and we sat on our hands except for an “age” change. The colapse changed the O philosophy, D scheme, and Specials coach and personel with tons of DBs and LBs to put on the field. It may have been extreme, but the situation called for extreme and the pesimists are already calling for heads to roll when they, the heads, have just about changed the whole team. Talk about reaction! Isn’t that what we wanted? I’m sure looking forward to camp — what, 4 more weeks?
June 29th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
Or a sign of desperate management that recognized what they were doing wasn’t working? Yes, I’m glad they made the changes and feel they were warranted, but that doesn’t reset the clock. This next year will be the 5th under TT, not the first.
Yes, the special teams were piss poor and the dumping of the punter in favor of Frost last year was a horrible mistake. Let’s hope to get that turned around this year.
By the way, did I miss something? How did our offensive philosophy change?
June 29th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
I think that placing an actual record as the benchmark for next year is a tad futile. Can we all agree success is a team that plays like a playoff caliber team, remains in the playoff hunt, and once in has as good of a shot as any to go all the way? I don’t care it’s 9-7 or 16-0, so long as they generally look like winners.
June 29th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
Physical specimens have been added to the O-line. Power concepts and Quinn Johnsons addition is a far cry from the first line that Mcarthy trotted out. The new right side looks very promising
June 29th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Further p_b, McCarthy has stated that Arod will have more control, will audible more, and they have thrown out about a quarter of the playbook. Thanks for the assist Pack4life. Also, no more musical chairs, because the depth chart will cover injuries/rests rather than the interior playing 3 positions each.
June 29th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
I accept all that, that just sounds like improved personnel and a progressing QB rather than a change in philosophy. Not trying to split hairs, just thought maybe you meant something else I didn’t know about.
Michael, yes, I agree if you’re 11-5 like the Patriots were last season and miss the playoffs anyway then I’d still say that team played well and was playoff caliber. Most of the time, though, you are what your record says you are. If we are somehow sub 500 again, I’ll bet we will have played like it too.
For the record, please don’t think I’m down on this season. This is all just conjecture. I think we’ll have at least a winning season and hopefully much more than that.
June 29th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
Al, I see you got around to changing the pictures at the top and bottom of the page.
Nice!
I always enjoy pics of people enjoying themselves at Lambeau Field but would have preferred more emphasis on the girls in cheesebras to the left and less on the heavy set middle aged men to the right.
Just a little unsolicited suggestion from me. I still like the change, though!
June 29th, 2009 at 9:54 pm
In the wonder what woulda happened if Jim Bates had stayed…would the defense gotten better or worse?
June 30th, 2009 at 6:05 am
Roy, you don’t have to wonder. Unless Bates could talk TT into getting him better D-linemen his 4-3 scheme wouldn’t have worked with what we had.
June 30th, 2009 at 6:20 am
Agreed, Mark; also, this looks like strategy as much as personel to me. We are going to be different. If this coaching staff can’t make a winner out of us I don’t think anybody could.
June 30th, 2009 at 8:19 am
I’m not saying I would prefer to have kept Jim Bates to getting Dom Capers but I think to be fair we’d have to admit the defense probably would be improved even if we had kept him and the scheme.
If we’re going to be excited about the upgrade in personnel in Raji and Mathews and assume we’re going to have Jenkins and a healthy Jolly along with perhaps the first significant contributions from Harrell, all things spoken of on this board, I’d have to say I’d be looking for improvement regardless.
I didn’t even mention the return of Barnett. Plus, it couldn’t have gotten much worse, could it?
June 30th, 2009 at 11:48 am
If you combine all the years that Bob Sanders was here I would have to say certainly Jim Bates would of had better defenses everything combined, but if you take only last year I don’t think it would have been very much if at all better considering the injuries on defense and the downfall/departure/injury of KGB, Williams, Jenkins on D-Line. Things will be different this year with Jenkins back and the addition of BJ Raji, and the fact that we only put 3 D-Line on the field at the same time.
While we can argue until we are blue in the face about whether Capers or Bates is the better DC, one thing is for sure… Dom Capers defense is going to be much more exciting!!! I truly think Dom Capers scheme is going to add some spice to Packer Sundays this season!!!
June 30th, 2009 at 11:52 am
Per NFL.com, the GBP were the #20 overall ranked defense for regular-season 2008. I don’t know how to find that number broken out for the 4th Quarter alone, but I’ll bet it’s even lower!
June 30th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
Yeah, iccy, definately worse in the 4th quarter. The Falcons game leaps to mind in a hurry!
June 30th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
Looking at the Poppinga Article I can see why Nick Collins has a very legit beef. Collins did more last year than Poppinga has done in his career. 13 mil for Brady Poppinga? wow
June 30th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Very interesting last few posts to kick around and now we can move on to the Poppinga debate as raised by the Roundup. I’ll start by saying I like him and think he’s worth the $$ as a #2 but not as a #3. However, thats too easy. How about the intangebles here, like locker room, unity, and special teams value? How do you weigh this one, I’m not sure.
June 30th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
Poppinga isn’t any good in coverage or pass rush but attacked the run ok. I would have moved him inside. I hope his contract doesn’t keep him on the roster like Harrell’s did. Collins has a knack of really going to the ball which you can see if you get the NFL replays. Those ints. weren’t an accident.
June 30th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
I think if you take a look at the situation Capers vs Sanders… it’s kind of hard to tell the calibur of our linebackers with an average coach that just called the same 3 plays on every down. Now that Capers is here we will see if and which of these guys are playmakers or not. Don’t know if Poppinga will be able to show us more in the new scheme or if he will just be the same Poppinga we always saw. I think Hawk, Barnett, will benefit on the inside as playmakers in this scheme. I’m going to go out on a limb and say Kampman will benefit more as LB than DL. I guess we will have to have this conversation again in week 4 and week 8. Going to be pretty interesting to see how these guys do. I’m excited!
July 1st, 2009 at 11:31 am
Poppinga and Kampman both have a lot to prove in the new scheme. If either/both are one dimensional they will be traded, not cut, because they both have value. I would guess that K goes for a player and P goes for a draft choice, but thats putting the cart before the horse. Frankly, I think they’ll both adjust, improve, and stick.
July 1st, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Yeah I think we need to go through this season and see what we got with some of these guys before we jump to too many conclusions. But even so, I just can’t see Poppinga or Chillar as being a starter after looking at the rostor.
I keep wondering tho, are Poppinga and Chillar getting paid too much to be backups?
PLayers getting paid too much may not be an immediate issue this season but with all the contracts coming up after this season, who do you keep? who do you cut or let go to FA? Those questions are what is going to make this upcoming season so much more interesting.
July 1st, 2009 at 10:08 pm
I’m a little worried about Tauscher’s old RT job, considering it appears to be up for grabs amongst Barbre, Giacomini & T.J. (Clubber) Lang. What is that, two recent fifth rounders fighting it out with a rookie fourth rounder? I thought Tony Moll was supposed to be in this mix? What’s up with Josh Sitton, last year’s TC sensation? Is he now designated a guard?
Ted’s been stockpiling huge versatile college OT’s since he got here; hope one of them steps up as the “next” Mark Tauscher (7th Rounder?) as opposed to Brennan Curtin, Junius Coston & Will Whitticker!
July 1st, 2009 at 11:18 pm
Liking the new background, Al. Cheese and boobs, all in the same place. How could it get any better?
July 2nd, 2009 at 9:20 am
Iccy,
Let’s hope T.J. Lang can be successful at RT so we can call him “Clubber”, loved that reference!
You are correct that it is a concern, somebody needs to step up. We have alot of young OL drafted within the last few years and I keep waiting for it to gell into a dominant unit.
July 2nd, 2009 at 10:09 am
Icy, Sitton looks to be the starting RG, at least at this point, lot’s can change between now and the end of the preseason, but Sitton is most certainly in the mix.
Barbre is the front runner at RT, followed by Lang and then Breno Giacomini. Breno was suppose to be the front runner going into OTAs but he has been hurt just like last year. I’ve heard since Barbre has moved to the edge he looks much more natural and comfortable and confident and is more free to use his athletic ability which is his strong suite as opposed to guard when he was inside not being able to move and use his athletic ability. Rodgers says Barbre is the most athletically gifted of all of their O-Linemen. If Barbre plays RT all througout training camp and preseason I’m not going to worry about his performance going into the season.
I’m most concerned about Clifton at LT. He has been out on Injury and Tony Moll has been filling in. Rodgers spoke pretty highly of Moll saying he is going to be really good once he get’s to play 1 position. It sounds like people are not expecting Clifton to practice much this season and only play in games. That kind of scares me. I’m not sure Cliffy is going to make it through the season. I think the likly scenario by week 4 or 8 is Cliffy goes down or goes in the tank and College moves to LT and TJ Lang steps in at LG.
Mid season I predict it to look like this:
LT College
LG Lang
C Spitz
RG Sitton
RT Barbre
Week 1 I would predict:
LT Cliffy
LG College
The rest the same as above to start out the season
July 2nd, 2009 at 11:36 am
Mike Reiss from Boston Globe on why Capers left the Pats…never for money of course.
“Finally, with Dom Capers, my take on that one is that he was eyeing a coordinator position. I don’t think it was a situation where Bill Belichick and Capers didn’t get along. I’d add that I do think they have contrasting philosophies and Capers was probably seeking a spot where he could implement more of his philosophy.”
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:42 pm
Dom learned a long time ago if you’re gonna take a job…be paid well..very very well.
Don’t know his Packer salary but the Dolphins opened the bank for him.
His (Capers) Dolphin salary in 2007 will be $2.6 million and he will receive raises of at least $100,000 per year in 2008 and 2009.
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:07 pm
I wonder if Lombardi woulda worked as a DC for 2.6 mil a year?
July 3rd, 2009 at 6:48 pm
I’m off to Mineral Point, WI for the 4th of July weekend. If any of you should happen to be around Point for the weekend, I’ll be the tall, drunk fun loving guy in the Hawaiian shirt, name of Bob. Say hi if you want.
To everyone else, Happy Fourth of July! Have a great weekend and we can resume the yapping come Monday! Peace and I’m out!
July 4th, 2009 at 8:03 pm
Good Guy: McNair key in Hurricane Katrina aid
Sporting News Magazine
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Steve McNair’s desire to help his community was enormous, and nothing showed that more than his assistance to Hurricane Katrina victims. As part of package saluting the Good Guys in sports, Paul Attner offered the following in June 2006:
It started with a conversation with Brett Favre.
Steve McNair, then still with the Titans, and Favre are Mississippi natives, and their teams were scheduled to play a preseason game in Nashville three days after Hurricane Katrina. Favre told McNair he was packing the Packers’ plane with relief supplies for his state. That led McNair to ask his foundation director, Mike Mu, to arrange a relief drive in Nashville.
By the end of McNair’s effort, 20 tractor-trailers had been filled with supplies. More than 800 volunteers helped out, and children brought their piggy banks. Fundraising efforts brought in more than $300,000.
A couple of weeks after the hurricane, the first trucks rolled into Mississippi and serviced areas that the Red Cross and the Federal Emergency Management Agency were not reaching. One of the trucks went to McNair’s ranch, where his mom supervised the unloading process.
Mu and McNair realized they needed a distribution point, so they began the Steve McNair Distribution Center in Gulfport. That led to weekly deliveries to the center of goods purchased by McNair’s foundation.
Later, Favre and McNair contributed to a $150,000 donation to the state’s high school and youth football programs.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
What a sad day for the NFL. Steve McNair was a class act. A true ambassador for hard work and toughness. A pro’s pro. I didn’t look it up but I’m not sure the Packers ever beat him. I’m glad I got to see him play when he came to Green Bay. I think he is Hall of Fame material and if the powers that be agree he should be part of next year’s inductees.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
McNair was a great football player. He made a tough transition from a small school top draft pick to become the unquestioned leader of two different teams. But injuries kept him from doing more or putting up the big career numbers that Tarkenton or Marino had. So without a championship he might not make the Hall of Fame. Until this tragedy the only negative I ever heard about him is he wanted to keep playing for the Titans and they locked him out of their training facility.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
Yeah, Mark, that was a tough situation. The Titans wanted to renegotiate I think and McNair didn’t. But McNair proved his worth by going to the Ravens and going 13-3. But you are probably right, maybe not HOF material. He would have my vote, though. Just for what he did for the state of the Oilers/Titans’ franchise and the NFL’s success in Tennessee.
July 5th, 2009 at 8:44 pm
Al, that brings up one of my biggest problems with pro football. The NFL is supposed to put the best talent on the field. But when it comes to old and young QB’s it seems like the older starters have to be traded and can never coexist. McNair was dropped because he was older and injury prone. The Titans drafted Vince Young so they felt they didn’t want to pay both. McNair proved them right by being too injured to win the Ravens playoff game and was injured the first games the next year and had to retire. But Young wasn’t ready to take over and would have benefited from watching McNair and taking over to keep him healthy or in case he was injured. The only coach who was able to use two QB’s successfully was Shula. With Woodstrock, Unitas and Morrall, and Morrall and Griese. Which was a perfect young/old combination. Back in the 50’s two QB’s was done all the time. Maybe it’s the money?
July 6th, 2009 at 9:21 am
McNair never had the weapons to become a feared passer. He never complained about it though. Just a guy who showed up and played. A guy who would clean up the field after his football camps. Now seriously not many starting NFL Qbs would even think of doing such a thing.
July 6th, 2009 at 11:34 am
McNair was a tough player and played at a high level for many years but there is no way in hell he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. 4 pro bowls, 164 wins and no titles? I don’t think that’s enough.
Having said that, what a tragic ending for the man. From everything I’ve read, he was a high character person and was very involvedi in charitable work. Not sure what he was doing kicking it with a 20 year old but this is horrible news for NFL fans. My heart goes out to the families of both of them.
July 6th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
Mark - You just illustrated the “circle of life” for an NFL quarterback. The Oilers had a pretty good veteran QB successor to Warren Moon in Chris Chandler. I always kinda liked Chris Chandalier (read fragile) and still think he’d have been a star IF he’d been able to stay healthy. The Oilers drafted McNair at #3 and it’s really rare that an NFL team will keep the highly paid youngster down for long. McNair got Chandler’s job after a short apprenticeship (actually 1.5 years) and then the scenario repeated when the Titan drafted Vince Young.
Having said all this, I always liked Steve McNair and his tragic end makes me sad, as does the media that seems intent on dirtying his image. I don’t need to know the details…
July 6th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
Iccy you’re right but Young didn’t even get the year and a half. We’re lucky #12 got to sit and prepare. I hope Brohm can use the time to get better. I’d still like to see us get a veteran QB, even Vick.
July 6th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
I’m really torn on that topic, Mark! I would like to see a veteran on the roster, but Flynn’s the #2 and I don’t want to see it at the expense of letting Brohm go. I just can’t fathom that all the scouts were wrong regarding Brohm’s skill set and hope we might have something if he’s allowed to slowly develop. I don’t have anything against Vick but really don’t want him to be a Packer. The last thing this team needs is a QB controversy spurred by a slow start on the part of ARod….
July 6th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
What can Collins be thinking? Does he think he is invincable at 3.0M? Bigby, Peprah, and Smith all relatively the same size, Bush would be a lot better if he concentrated on one position, Rouse will show better at his size in the 3-4, Woodson can go either way and could be replaced at CB if needed with Lee and/or Blackmon available. Also, rookies and FAs out there. I think Ive got a pretty good idea what TT is thinking. Some question if Bigby was a one-year wonder; with as many times as Ive heard Collins was out of position a lot of times just plain lucky, was Collins a one-year wonder? I thought Collins was super great after he had the ball in his hands, but wouldn’t he be at a terrible disadvantage coming late into camp? As I understand the Capers scheme all DBs call keys not just a FS so communication and coordination are paramount and nobody freelances. Is Safety so easy that you don’t need coordinated prep, I wouldn’t think so?
July 6th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
Punk, I heard this before Sharper left because TT didn’t want to pay him. At least Sharper could be said to be too old. But that only helped the Vikes, we got nothing in return. And, the money we saved didn’t bring us another safety who could play at Sharper’s level until we got Collins. Collins is not a one year wonder. He cost us a #2 and three years time and money. He has trade value now, if TT can’t or won’t sign him he should make a trade.
July 6th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
wELL maybe so but Collins and Bigby came in along with Woodson and Sharper was at $4.0M, stayed 4yr(MIN), and now NO. You didn’t, but most people refer to Roman when they talk about Sharper, who by the way has strictly been journeyman(Sharper), and not in my book worth the $4. Kind of a contradiction on my part because in all my career I always said a person was worth whatever management was willing to pay them. My point was that we are much stronger at DB then when Sharper played his game…………………By the way, P_B get off the Moss thing. Brady and Co. haven’t won the big one, what makes you think Favre/Moss would have?
July 6th, 2009 at 5:36 pm
Punk,
I’ll never get off the Moss thing. That was a chance to pick up one of the league’s premier receivers at a cut rate price and it was stupid not to do it.
Larry Fitzgerald hasn’t won a SB either so I suppose you wouldn’t want to take him for a few million and a 5th round draft pick. Moss has played brilliantly since arriving in New England; it’s simplistic to say that since they haven’t won a SB he wouldn’t have had any value to us. He may have put us over the top in 2007 but we’ll never know since someone couldn’t pull the trigger.
July 6th, 2009 at 5:49 pm
When you look around the league there aren’t many quality backup qbs. If they are, they usually get a shot to start. The Browns have a group of guys who probably all would make up good backups, but none is starter quality at this point. Todd Collins, Billy Volek, Brian Griese, Vince Young, and Rosenfels were about as good as the NFL could offer last year. I commend the Packers for trying to develop a qb, but by the time you develop one…if he’s any good…he’s gonna want more cash and a new location to try and start. It took all of 3 years to develop A-Rod and, at this point, I’m thinking it’s going to take longer to develop Brohm and Flynn.
July 6th, 2009 at 8:46 pm
A new just produced Favre T-shirt is now available.
Word is everyone will wear it when the Vikings visit Lambeau Field this season.
I like it.
http://sconnie.com/view_item&id=137
-
July 7th, 2009 at 7:44 am
Re QB backup; gotta trust MM on this one. He didn’t panic last yr w/ (3) newbies on board so why would he now? Who knows why they are being described as looking so bad so far, maybe new things being thrown in? Sure have to know that we’ve got the best QB teachers available. There will be plenty of vets out there after camp if need be so don’t worry. Rocky, that tee with the misspelling is wild, can that outfit be trusted w/ a credit card #, don’t know them?
July 7th, 2009 at 8:56 am
Are Flynn and Brohm both being described as looking that bad? I thought it was primarily Brohm who hasn’t looked good.
I agree with those that think we should get a veteran back up. I don’t mean a Michael Vick either, I mean somebody you could count on in a pinch to help you out for a few games if need be, like Leftwich did for the Steelers last year. Of course, if the coaching staff thinks Flynn or Brohm is already capable of doing that, then I would trust their judgement. But seeing as we didn’t feel the need for a backup last year I seriously doubt we’ll be looking for one this year with both of those guys a year further along, whether think they’re ready or not.
I still can’t shake the feeling of doubt about Rodger’s ability to last the whole season. I know he played admirably through injury last year but part of me feels we got really lucky with that. Maybe it’s his past injuries in a limited role that has me spooked. I’m looking for a top tier offense this season and a significant injury to Rodgers would be the biggest threat to derail it.
July 7th, 2009 at 10:16 am
Rodgers hamstring injury (a minor one I might add) was due to a poor conditioning coach and the broken foot was due to the Patriots knowing which plays we were going to call on defense. After all the Pats took out the iron man Favre and Rodgers in the same game. It is what it is. The shoulder injury last year is just something that is going to happen that you have to play through which he did.
Moss does have a big contract with the Pats and I’m glad we are paying Jennings and not Moss. Moss just shuts it down during end of regular season and play off time anyway so why bother with him? Yeah he puts up great numbers but he is never going to help you win the big one.
July 7th, 2009 at 10:42 am
I think conditioning should be the responsibility of the players themselves. You can coach these guys all you want but you can’t change their DNA makeup. Some guys are more brittle than others…yeah it’s tempting to mention Justin Harrell…and he was that way long before he met a Packer coach. How many conditioning programs have we seen over the years? Conditioning coaches are like pitching and hitting coaches in baseball. They are the scapegoats. They don’t swing a bat. They don’t throw the ball. They don’t tackle or make plays. They advise. And for that, they get blamed when a guy who is 6-3 and 210 lbs gets crushed by two 310 lb tackles who beat the O-line.
July 7th, 2009 at 10:45 am
I am not going to worry about receivers. We need to have a ground attack and good O-line play. The Steelers had an absolutely horrible O-line last year but their defense was lights out and Big Ben is extremely durable. The Pack cant get away with that because their is no way Aaron can take the beating that Big Ben takes. And right now the defense cant bail the Pack out of mistakes.
July 7th, 2009 at 10:52 am
Didn’t that “minor” injury have him sidelined for 3-4 weeks? Sounds to me like you’re just making excuses. He played very little in two seasons and missed the rest of the one with a broken foot and was unavailable for a significant part of the other. Sorry if that has me concerned, but it does and will continue to until Rodgers demonstrates the ability to stay healthy for a prolonged period of time.
Moss got re-signed to a big contract after he helped the Patriots to an undefeated regular season and broke the single season record for touchdown receptions. You’re right, why the hell would we have wanted him? And I guess the Patriots are just ignorant for signing him to the bigger extension?
Give me a break. The Patriots were a miracle drive by the Giants away from winning the Super Bowl. It is ridiculous to make statements like “he is never going to help you win the big one.” The guy has caught what, 34 touchdowns over the last 2 seasons?
It was not a choice between paying Moss or Jennings at the time, it was the choice between a 5th round pick or a 4th round pick. I realize we ended up with a pretty good receiving corps that year without him, but A.) Nobody here would’ve guessed how good before the season when the decision was made and B.) He still would have brought something to the table.
It seems like the broken record statement on this forum is that if a guy hasn’t won a Super Bowl yet, he’s worthless. I guess Tomlinson hasn’t been any good over the last decade, no ring. This was the mantra about Peyton Manning until recently. Or if Manning “only” wins one SB in his career, will that diminish him in your eyes? If the Patriots win one with Moss, are you going to eat your words?
July 7th, 2009 at 11:01 am
P_B, I got the Flynn “looked bad” from the ESPN notes that didn’t know who to blame. At the time he was throwing to backup receivers who weren’t sure where to go, but who knows? I’m not in the worried category at all. I have to admit, however, that last year was scary given to the unknowns of the group. Who knows, we could go for years with these people like Starr/Brat, recognizing now you need (3). In the meantime, if MM decides we need a vet, TT will bring one in, I think its that simple. I’m glad I don’t have to comment on Moss anymore, JeffN said it in a nuyshell……………..!
July 7th, 2009 at 11:13 am
It was a shell allright, an empty shell of an argument.
Saw some notes on Brohm from one of the Wisconsin reporters from one of the mini-camps that said he telegraphed routes and still held onto the ball too long, still haven’t read anything derogatory about Flynn this season. It seems to be the consensus that he is better than Brohm right now. I’m just saying we need someone competent in case Rodgers goes down.
July 7th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Kevin Seifert; Chat Wrap: GreenBays QBs 7/6 7PM ESPN. Jumped on Flynn for bailing out of the pocket in “non-contact” drills and missing routes. He didn’t see anything to change the pecking order, however. Frankly, I’ve always tought Brohm had more natural talent, but for some reason was not as ready for NFL and needed a hell of a lot more fundamental work and training. What do I know?
July 7th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Apparently you know much more than the scouts who helped pick him second in the draft.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
Maybe, but I’d bet I’d have made the same mistake given his college record. My biggest mistake (draftwise) ever was Mandarich, but then who didn’t miss on that one?
July 7th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
PB I don’t need to make excuses for Rodgers. He does all his talking with his actions on the football field just like he did in his first season as a starter. Rodgers is the man and all of us Packer fans are lucky to have a starting QB as good as Rodgers.
The way I look at the whole Moss thing is if he would have just put together one game during that Super Bowl up to half the level of what he played during regular season games then the Pats would have won that game by at least 2 or 3 touchdowns like they did during the regular season, but instead he takes the day off just like he did in all the other play off games that year. I don’t doubt Moss’s talent but you just don’t know when he is going to take the day off and you can’t afford that at the end of a long season. I’m just saying I would rather have Jennings in the play off than Randy Moss. Jennings is going to give you everything he has, so is Jordy, so is Driver and so is Jones so is Martin. We don’t need the Moss cancer we need the Fab 5 enough said.
I’m not saying guys who don’t win Super Bowls are worthless. That’s a misunderstanding. What I’m saying is I would rather have the hard working recievers that we have that you can count on to put their heart into the game come play off time.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
PB, you completly mis quoted what I was getting at. Your’re the type of guy that fills in the blanks with what he wants to believe.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
Yeah, you had some company with that one. I never really watched him in college but from what I understand he was dominating and looked look like the combination of size, strength, athletic ability and nastiness to revolutionize the position.
It’s easy to joke about now that we all know what an epic bust he was, but it was probably hard to tell at the time.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
Wow, JeffN I feel your passion - spoken like a true fan. I wonder if a Pro-Bowl team could make it to the SB? Certainly on paper, but then again, there is only one ball….
July 7th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
Mandarich sure looked good on that Sports Illustrated cover. He fooled everyone but himself. As I have said, Brohm might pan out in another year or two, but he’ll be of little use to the Packers by then. You gotta wonder how some of these qb candidates never reach their potential. Guys like David Carr, Akili Smith, Alex Smith (so far), maybe Brady Quinn and Matt Leinart too. Maybe they get too much info instead of letting their natural talent take over. And usually those high draft pick qbs go to woeful teams with woeful offensive lines. That can’t be a confidence builder.
July 7th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
JeffN,
Didn’t you say he puts up numbers but would never help you win the big one? So I’m just asking if he does win a SB with New England if that changes what kind of player he is in your eyes. He was one lucky catch by the Giants away from winning one already. I don’t see how I misquoted anything. The clear implication is that you don’t think he can help get a team over the top, and I disagree.
The thing about guys winning Super Bowls wasn’t directed at your comments only. It just seems like guys on this forum are fond of putting people down with that, like Punk did with the statement about Brady/Moss not winning it all. I think it is as ridiculous to hold Moss accountable for “not winning the big one” as it was for people to talk about Peyton Manning that way before he won his SB. At least with Manning he was the QB and had a little bit more influence than a WR. I also think it is ridiculous to insinuate that Moss took the SB off. The Giants defense clearly had alot to do with the failings of the Pats offense, that and the failure of Belichek to make adjustments.
As far as Rodgers goes, you blamed his hamstring on the conditioning coach and his foot on the fact that the Patriots knew our plays. I hope you’re right and it is not his own brittleness to blame, but certainly you can understand why I’d be concerned, especially with complete unknowns as the only back ups.
July 7th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
Picky, picky, picky, I’m not original enough to come up with the “not winning it all” remark. I didn’t even know it until I read it on another forum a few days ago. I don’t know if he is a finisher or not, but I don’t think he has been on a SB winner, even tho the PATs had won without him. The real arguement is would he have been worth the $ to bring him into the locker room? I don’t think so, you do. Thats just opinion and doesn’t mean much either way. He wasn’t cheap; the cost was a hell of a lot more than just a 2nd or 3rd rounder. I don’t recall him ever saying he even wanted to come here, only that Favre apparently wanted him. I sure don’t think it would have helped the development of the “Fab Five” and would we be better off today with him? Again, I doubt it.
July 7th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
Packer Bob, I encourage you to look at Moss’ playoff numbers in all three games two years ago. Both Driver and Jennings were more productive. Randy Moss’s numbers in fact were unimpressive basically for the five years leading up to his first year with the Patriots. Still pining for him as a Packer is the ultimate “grass is greener” scenario.
July 7th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Punk u lose all credilbility quoting Kevin Seifert “he is Viqueen writer ” I lived in Minneapolis nearly 20 years. The man knows very little about football. He could never cover a real team like the Pack.
July 7th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
PB the point I’m making is you can’t count on Moss to be there all the time but you can count on the Fab 5 to be there all the time even if 1 or 2 of those guys have injuries like we saw last season. Moss’s actions suggest he doesn’t really show up to play in the play off’s because he is an “I’ll take a play off or a day off if I want to” type of a guy. I’ll also stress Punk’s point when he says how would that have effected the development of the Fab 5? Again Moss said he never wanted to and would not of come to Green Bay anyway. In hind site I can’t see why anybody still wants Moss. Was it more Favre or TT that said Moss would come to Green Bay? Probably Favre, that’s just speculation tho.
You say the Pat’s were 1 lucky catch away from winning the superbowl, I’m just saying that game would never have been any close if Moss would of showed up that day and played like he did during the regular season. Just an example of how you don’t when he is going to show up for a game, especially late in the season. Plus his attitude issues to top it all off.
July 7th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
MLegat, two things about Moss. He would and did change the Giants defensive scheme. In that weather that change would have helped our run game. Second it exposed TT as a GM who didn’t know how to pounce on an opportunity to get a veteran when it would have made a difference. One of the four games we lost that year was to the Bears because of a rookie WR fumbling twice in their territory. Jones wouldn’t have been on the field if Moss was there. What’s done is done but if you don’t know your mistakes you can’t correct them. I see a lot of correction going on and I’m going to give TT and MM credit for that.
July 7th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Hell, Pack4, I dont have any credibility to lose, just opinion. I fail to see how citing someone else’s comments reflect on my cred anyway. You guys can cite all the data, history, facts, and any other crap you want, but on Sunday nobody knows what will happen, only probability to a degree. So quit postulating like you’re experts using all kind of stats that dont mean didly tomorrow. Just remember a TRUE fact and that is “On any given Sunday, dada, dada, dada…….”.
July 7th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
Point #1:
My understanding is we were interested in Randy Moss prior to the 2007 season, and the Patriots got him because they were willing to give up a 4th round pick whereas we would only part with a 5th round pick. This is why I stated that the difference was between a 4th and 5th roung pick. I don’t remember what the money would have been but believe it was in the $4 million range.
Point #2:
We have just signed Jennings to a $9 million per year extension. I like Jennings alot but can’t understand why people on this board are objecting to the idea of paying someone of Moss’s caliber less than half that for the one season and then evaluating from there.
Point #3:
Most of the teams you play in the playoffs are going to have better defenses than you encounter in the regular season. A good defense can marginalize or even blank a major weapon if the team in question is one dimensional or doesn’t possess enough options to make the defense honest. I don’t care about Moss’ playoff numbers. If he was on the field with Driver and Jennings in 2007 it would have been as potent a combination if not more so than the Moss/Stallworth/Welker combo that blew up so many records that year. I contend it was short sighted not to add him to our roster that year and will continue to think so.
July 7th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
I also don’t buy the “he would poison the development of the Fab 5″ argument. That is pure base speculation and I believed is colored by anti-Moss sentiment from when he was a Viking and would tear us up on a regular basis.
He seems to have been a pretty good teammate in New England and they don’t seem to be too big on the “me first” kind of guys. Brady seems to like him, that’s good enough for me.
July 7th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
We can agree to disagree but I just don’t think Moss would have helped us in the play off that year. As stated by others above I would take Jennings and or Driver’s play off numbers over Moss’s play off numbers. Those play off numbers are all due to 1 guy shutting it down while the others still have their hearts in the game.
July 7th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
It’s not anti-Moss sentiment because he was a Viking it’s the fact that the other guys would not have gotten the reps to develope.. couple that with his attitude and how that might effect younger easier influenced players and that just makes me happy with the way our WRs have turned out.
July 7th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
How many playoff games has Jennings been in, two? Just how seriously am I supposed to take those?
Besides, I am not saying I would rather have him than Driver and Jennings, I am saying I would have rather had him WITH Driver and Jennings in 2007. He offers a serious deep threat and it would have been hard to cover everybody plus it probably would have helped our run game.
Who else has really developed thus far, Jones was hurt last year, Nelson did OK and Ruvell Martin is Ruvell Martin. I fail to see how having Moss in 2007 or last year would have cost us that much in development. Besides, aren’t we just hoping they’ll develop to be one tenth as good as someone like Moss? I’ll take the guy who’s already there and be done with it.
July 7th, 2009 at 7:32 pm
The place Moss has been is absent in playoff games where his team is heavily favored.
Randy Moss’ 2007 postseason numbers:
AFC Divisional Round vs. Jacksonville - 1 catch, 14 yards, 0 TDs
AFC Championship Game vs. San Diego - 1 catch, 18 yards, 0 TDs
Super Bowl vs. New York Giants - 5 catches, 62 yards, 1 TD
And spare me the playoff-caliber defense argument. These numbers flat out stink.
July 7th, 2009 at 7:40 pm
Look at viqueen_bob living in the past again. How can anyone possibly spend so much time & effort making a case for Moss ?? That’s ancient history. Besides, once again, you have your facts & opinions mixed. Just because you think something over & over & over again doesn’t magically convert your opinion into fact. Face it bobbi, you’re not exactly known for getting your facts straight. Now how about focusing a little more on 2009.
The Packers WR corp is considered one of the best in the NFL in 2009. With an elite QB like AR throwing the passes the opposition will be hard-pressed to even slow down the offense. 2008 was just a sample of bigger & better things to come. Real Packer Fans are excited about this reality.
July 7th, 2009 at 8:11 pm
Somebody made a comment about Moss, I still think it was a huge mistake, so I’m stating my case. There isn’t any current Packer news to talk about (I guess they signed TJ Lang, want to talk about that for a few hours?) and won’t be until camp starts.
I’m not the one spending my time on Vikings sites, Rocky, so perhaps you should re-think your childish name calling. I don’t consider 2 years ago to be ancient history, perhaps to someone that’s 5 it is.
How many times was he thrown to Michael? I know Brady spent alot of time on his back in that Giants game and he still caught for 62 yards and what would have been the winning touchdown without the miracle drive. I also don’t know how much those other teams gave up if they over-defended him.
My point is simple guys–he tore up the NFL in 2007 and we could have had him cheap. He didn’t win a SB; we didn’t even get there. It was a mistake to not get the
guy and I’ll bitch about it till the day I die. Any of you don’t want to talk about it, let it drop. But Moss set the record for touchdown receptions that season and I think he could have made a difference and think the price was extraordinarily cheap. Different opinions is what makes the world go round, you know!
July 7th, 2009 at 8:45 pm
Bottom Line Moss aint playing in Wisconsin. We have Jennings, Driver, Jones, and Nelson I will take that over any group in the NFC even the Cards. Fix the line, fix the front 7 and the Pack will be fine.
July 7th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
PB I’m all good with talking about Moss this time of season with nothing else currently going on. One more thing to consider with Moss is even on the days he does show up his athletic ability is going to start tailing. He is 32 years old now.
Mel, I couldn’t agree more on the front 7. Now with all the first round draft picks in that front 7 they better be have a good season this year!
Rocky, I couldn’t agree more on the offense, bigger and better things are most certainly on their way!
July 7th, 2009 at 9:33 pm
Oh and PB, Yeah I really don’t feeling like talking about TJ Lang’s contract for a few hours. LOL!
Anybody see Larry lately?
July 7th, 2009 at 10:57 pm
JeffN, Larry is Punk because in a couple of threads ago somebody else started using “Larry” and like a good CB’er I just changed my handle. Might happen again, but my attitude won’t change. I’ve been consistant w/ my support of the team and the MM/TT/MM troika, but I’ve always supported Packer management since Lombardi in the beginning of their respective terms. I have changed my mind during past administrations (Bengston, Starr, Devine, Rhodes, Sherman, etc.) but I’m still a long way from calling for somebody’s head w/ this group although who knows tomorrow. I do know the game has changed insofar as creating dynastys. We’ll just have to see how the new player’s agreement goes and what rules changes come forth.
July 8th, 2009 at 8:09 am
We have now separated into two camps. I’ll just go out on a limb and call them the patient and the impatient. I judge the two groups also fall into two camps chronoligically as well. In other words those who have been thru hell and those who have only known the relative good times of the recent past. And let me state these were good years having Favre as reliable, if often erratic, as he was. We all know we are Packer fans and I don’t want to go into degree. Since we have a couple of weeks of boredom to go thru, with only the occasional signing to draw our attention, I thought it might be interesting to find out WHY we are Packer fans. I’ll start. I married into it! Grew up in the Chicago and No. Illinois area as a Bear fan. Luckman, Lujack, and the rest of the Monsters of the Midway, along with Halas were my heros. Then I married into a Wisconsin Packer family where it was 24/7 GBP and Bearse debate - I gave up! Then along came a gap-toothed, smiling asst coach from NYC, who along w/ Goldwater changed my life completely. Businesswise, in sports, and politically. Needless to say the wife and I, along w/ the kids, starting going across the border on Sundays for hamburgers, beer, and Packer TV, because we couldn’t get the games at home. Used to take the boat up to camp and cruise the Bay and Fox in the evenings. Great memories running into players in gas stations, etc. Of course the place was nothing like it is today w/ the indoor, luxury boxes, and practice fields. My life’s regret is never being able to attend a game in GB and had to settle for Milwaukee and Madison. At any rate thats a quick synopsis of my fandom entry. Retired to the Texas coast in ‘90 and after ten years of fun and sun came up here to Aggieland. Wouldn’t you know it Sherman followed me. At least Chuck Norris lives down the road (don’t know him personally) so its not all bad. I’d be interested to hear your stories if Al will allow.
July 8th, 2009 at 8:17 am
You would rather talk about Moss instead of:
The starting 5 on the OL come game 1.
Who could subplant Martin as the 5th WR.
Has Lee moved past Blackmon as the dime CB.
Bishop just may push Barnett to start at ILB.
J. Thompson & C. Matthews may be day 1 starters at OLB.
S. Wells will be hard pressed to make the final roster.
A TC hold-out by Collins could result in a trade.
The Pack’s 2009 punter isn’t even on the present roster.
D. Wynn moving ahead of Jackson to back-up Grant.
GB could have 7 1st rounders starting on defense.
Could Clifton become a TC cut because of his nearly $8 mil cap hit.
Will J. Findley start ahead of D. Lee.
Whose the 3rd TE in 2009.
Any wild-cat in the Packer’s plans in 2009.
The list can be expanded easily. What’s Moss got to do with a Packer blog?
July 8th, 2009 at 8:58 am
Rocky I got a big write up above about the o-line but nobody responded to it.
Punk/Larry, I’ve lived in Northeastern Wisconsin my whole life. Grew up 30 min from Green Bay and as far back as I can remember our whole family is just Packer fans. That’s both immediate family and extended family. So I guess one could say I was born into it. So my parents are my parents and the Packers are my sports team. I was just born that way. My dad tells me ever time we hang out “I hope Raji sacks Favre this year”. Not that I really care but I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard that the last 2 months.
July 8th, 2009 at 8:59 am
Punk, interesting story. For myself I’m a product of of the age of TV. My father took me to see the Pack in Milwaukee and when we moved to Miami they were on TV before the Dolphins existed. It was thrilling to watch the Lombardi teams but the only way I could follow what was happening, particularly off season, was to go to the main library and get week old Milwaukee Journal reports. I played high school ball against Ted Hendricks and he’ll tell you he was a Packer fan because of TV broadcasts in Miami. Rocky, not getting Moss is part of why we’re where we are. A bigger football question is why Woodson and Moss couldn’t perform in Oakland but were great when they left? All the areas you mentioned will be answered soon but the Moss thing can’t and can only be speculation. But TT has said he has regrets about Moss.
July 8th, 2009 at 10:08 am
Great idea, Larry, thanks for sharing!
I was born Illinois but my Dad’s side of the family is from Mineral Point, WI. I was born in 1968 so obviously I have no memories of the 60’s Packer Dynasty but my Dad was an adult in the times so he does and instilled some of that in me. We moved to Wisconsin Rapids, WI shortly after I was born then moved back to northern Illinois when I was in first grade.
So even though I’ve lived in Illinois ever since, I was raised a Packer fan. (Although in the late 70’s all the kids would pretend we were Walter Payton when we were playing tackle/smear!) We would go to games in Milwaukee and Green Bay through the 70’s and 80’s, although not a bunch of times but probably 4 or 5. Lynn Dickey and that passing attack with Lofton, etc. was probably the most successful I ever remember the Pack being during those years.
As an adult, I’ve seen the Packers 20+ times, mostly in Lambeau (what a renovation by the way, I remember the old Green metal bowl) and a few times away (almost got into it with 4 drunken Bears fans in Chicago in 2001.) The success we’ve had throughout the 90’s and 2000’s is the only time in my lifetime that the Packers have been relevant in a competitive sense instead of just nostalgia for the greatness of the past, so maybe that’s why I’m so concerned about us returning to long term mediocrity, as an adult I’ve mostly experienced winning!
Again, Larry/Punk, great idea and I look forward to reading the accounts of others!
July 8th, 2009 at 10:09 am
“But TT has said he has regrets about Moss.”
This line needs a link or a quote. I read alot. Never have I seen anything close to your assertion.
You two sound like you’re both on the front porch in your rocking chairs. No wonder the past is so prevalent in your posts. Many prefer to focus on today & tommorrow.
July 8th, 2009 at 10:16 am
Rocky,
I’ll be interested in all those things you’ve listed, but how am I supposed to have an opinion prior to training camp? If Wynn plays great in camp maybe we can talk about him supplanting Jackson, but how can I have an opinion now?
Ditto how many first rounders will be starting on D, what happens with Collins, who should be our 5th receiver etc. These are all relevant questions but without some input into how the players are actually performing, how am I supposed to have an opinion?
July 8th, 2009 at 10:33 am
It’s called research. I didn’t just make up a list of items. All those items were derived from articles, blogs, & forums. For instance, Brett Swain is considered the favorite to unseat Martin as the 5th WR. This is an MJS story from the OTAs.
Try this or just a Google search.
http://football.about.com/od/moregreenbaypackers/Green_Bay_Packers_Links.htm
July 8th, 2009 at 11:04 am
Whatever. Is research now going to make a difference if Swain gets hurt in camp or just plain sucks? Most of the answers to your questions are going to get settled camp like they always do.
July 8th, 2009 at 11:07 am
I dont care about depth chart as much as I care about quality. Ryan Grant needs a breather every now and again. Like Adrian Peterson,Michael Turner and LT. N.O. was far more effective when they rotated Duece and Reggie Bush. There was a story that the
July 8th, 2009 at 11:36 am
The way I see it is Green Bay has a lot of servicable runningbacks. I can see Grant, Wynn, or Lumpkin as a possibility to be something more then that. However one of them has to do it which is one of the things that will make training camp and preseason much more interesting. I’m afraid of Brandon Jackson being the entrepreneur of average for his whole career. We will see.
July 8th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
Yup, talk is cheap in the camp at this time of the year. Philbin can say Wells is going to compete at center and I’m sure he will. However, Spitz has time and money on his side.
July 8th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
Ron Hallstrom
“There were some serious mistakes made this year and I think it was internal. I think egos got too big. When it comes down to the GMs wanting it to be their team and the coaches wanting it to be their team … it’s not their team, it’s all their players.”
For the rest of this inciteful interview visit…
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/214344-a-chat-with-former-green-bay-packer-ron-hallstrom/page/5
July 8th, 2009 at 5:55 pm
Thanks for the article, Roy. It was very inciteful, especially coming from a guy that actually played the game for 12 years. Much obliged!
July 8th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
Thanks Roy, Hallstrom was the complete opposite of Mandarich.
July 8th, 2009 at 8:08 pm
Ron Hallstrom
As much as I liked Hallstrom as a player, he is not even remotely in the loop of the present team. He’s viewing everything as a fan these days. Some bloggers on the Web have more access to the Pack today than Hallstrom. Did he say anything good about anyone ?? I couldn’t find anything positive. He sounded like he’s still abit bitter over something from 20 years ago.
If you take Hallstrom’s comments seriously then ‘Fran the Man’ must also be taken seriously. Think about it.
July 8th, 2009 at 8:24 pm
Or how about a little perspective from Jerry Rice. Surely you respect his opinion even if it differs from your own.
http://blogs.startribune.com/vikingsblog/?p=3021
_____
What happens if he does struggle or is not healthy with a team that is built to win now?
Rice: ”Then everything backfires. You’ve got a major problem. Also you have to look at the scenario that happened in New York. If he pretty much distances himself completely from the players, then all of a sudden you’re going to divide the players because a lot of the players are going to say, ‘Hey, Tarvaris Jackson should be in here or Sage.’ You don’t want this to divide the team. So this could really backfire.”
July 8th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
Apples and oranges Rocky. Hallstrom said if you lose both your starting guards you’ll have trouble for years. Something that’s obvious even to someone not in the loop. He knows line play better than we do but the results of TT’s dropping Wahle and Rivera without having backups ready to take over are still with us. The other point is Hallstrom is a fan, OF THE PACKERS, Tark never was and never will be.
July 8th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
Rocky,
Did you even read the Hallstrom article? He spoke positive about Bart Starr, said James Lofton was one of the best athletes he was ever around, mentioned offensive and defensive players he played with in the 80’s by name, complimented Mike Holmgren on building the offensive line, so what in the hell are you talking about when you say he didn’t have a good thing to say about anyone?
Oh, that’s right, he also praised Favre and took a couple of jabs at management. So clearly he’s ancient history. He’s not even in the loop anymore. He actually played for 12 years but anybody that doesn’t blog about the potential of Brett Swain to become the 5th receiver is clearly out of touch! Probably doesn’t even know what a computer is.
And for a guy that wants to talk about the future you bring Tarkenton back up and now Jerry Rice from a VIKINGS blog about the guy you accuse everyone else of talking about incessantly? Wow!
By the way, the context of the Rice quote is in the case that he would struggle on a “team built to win now.” Rice’s answer: that would be bad. Well, no shit, captain obvious. It’s called a calculated gamble; using Jackson or Rosenfels on a team “built to win now” isn’t without risk either or they wouldn’t be looking to fill the void. The Bears changing gears with Cutler is a gamble, but obviously they wouldn’t have done it if they felt Orten was their man.
They’re risks, Rocky. Men with stones take them once in awhile.
July 8th, 2009 at 10:52 pm
Hallstrom’s comments didn’t seem very well thought out. He sounds like a lot of other guys I hear who are pissed off about everything that has happended lately because somebody didn’t do everything his/their way. He talks about the past and bitches about the future. Sound familiar?
July 8th, 2009 at 10:57 pm
Well then p_b lets just say TT had stones for letting Wahle and Rivera get away. As Mark said, it didn’t work out. The Favre/TT arguments are past trite. TT also then had stones for letting Favre go and in my estimation that worked out. As far as I’m concerned thats what a rebuild is, one hell of a big gamble. Some of you never want to consider it but $$ do matter and all of the guys let go were a cap reliever. At least we have the resources to resign the 3, 4, and 5 yr guys we want to keep now. I think its a bunch of baloney when I hear arguments like keeping or letting guys go depending on who drafted them. No GM in the league is keeping people simply because they drafted them. Doesn’t make any sense.
July 8th, 2009 at 11:09 pm
I take it his comments aren’t well thought out because you don’t agree with them?
Most ex-NFL players are going to talk about when they played, in fact it was probably that he was asked directly about those subjects. What’s really unclear to me is why the various TV networks, radio stations, etc. keep getting ex-players exactly like this to give their “expert” opinions on the NFL. Obviously once you’re retired you’re ancient history and your views are invalidated.
Steve Young, Troy Aikman, Emmet Smith, Mike Ditka, Keyshawn Johnson, Tom Jackson, Chris Collinsworth, etc. etc. etc.
All old men—they should all be put in one big room with their rocking chairs and their dribble cups! Hell, they don’t know anything, they probably don’t even blog! Still do their calculations with an abacus and a piece of chalk!
July 8th, 2009 at 11:16 pm
Punk,
Letting 2/5 of a dominant line go with no replacements is a helluva gamble, I’ll give you that. I don’t give him credit on the Favre deal though, as to me it was clearly what he wanted for awhile. Stone’s would have been being up front about it and just flat out saying we don’t want him back about 2 season’s ago.
July 8th, 2009 at 11:51 pm
OK, so maybe Wahle has been serviceable since we let him go. But what did Rivera ever do? Whether we kep him or let him go, he was done.
July 9th, 2009 at 5:54 am
Steve Cheez, offensive lines need the cohesion of playing together. Like Hallstrom said you can pull out a piece but both guards replaced by rookies and never-weres was a disaster. I’d like to see our present O-line solidify and play as a unit for at least the entire preseason and stop moving players around. It looks like our tackles and center are changing this year also, so it’s going to be even harder to put a group together.
July 9th, 2009 at 6:01 am
I’ll never forget what Jerry Kramer wrote about a rookie hotshot center. When Starr called the snap he was amazed that he was slower than everyone else on the line repeatedly. The rest of the line thought it was funny because they all anticipated every snap together by a split second as a unit. That’s what we have to develop.
July 9th, 2009 at 9:20 am
PB I also think TT has a lot of stones to stick with his plan. He has not caved into what Packer fans want. Instead he stays with what he thinks will work. Even when he has got boo’ed on draft days by the fans he still sticks to his plans. Gotta give a guy credit for that. Now I know a lot of people turn that around and say well he hasn’t signed any big named FAs so he doesn’t have balls. Well his plans all along have been to resign players that are already on this team and what we are about to see next year as we have discussed, he is going to have to use all the cap space to resign all the contracts that are coming up next year, Kampman, Picket, Collins, Spitz, College. His plan is working out and this team is poised to be really good over the next few years and longer with the plan that TT has used. Sure it took a long time but it’s working out now and this is the team that we have and it’s pretty exciting now. I know people are disappointed with last year but we have nothing but exciting things going forward.
I would also point out that it took a lot of stones to let Ahman Green go and sign a huge contract elsewhere. It took a lot of stones to let Rivera go and sign a huge contract elsewhere. Both of those players did nothing after they left. Good call IMO. Wahle left and signed a huge contract and was servicable I agree. We can debate Wahle all you want but Carolina ended up letting him go because they couldn’t afford a guard that was servicable with a huge contract.
While I’m on my soap box I would also state that once the o-line gets used to playing next to each other and settle in at their positions we are going to have a really good o-line even if Tauscher and Clifton don’t play this season. I also think that people are going to start to notice now that it’s not our 2 guards that are the weakness in the o-line anymore it was the tackles last year.
July 9th, 2009 at 9:30 am
What would fans reaction be if they gave Ahman Green and Rivera each a huge contract? Then everyone would be complaining that TT signed those guys and they didn’t do anything productive after that. TT would have gotten criticized letting those guys go or keeping them. Those are the people I would call arm chair GMs. You always got to look at things both ways and look at what a person’s real intentions are.
July 9th, 2009 at 9:37 am
In the end it always comes down to $$ and SENSE! And its all based on probability.
July 9th, 2009 at 10:39 am
@ JeffN & Punk
I couldn’t have said it better myself. Good rebuttals.
Obviously what we have here is part of the Packer Fanbase are excited about now & what the future holds.
The other portion (small minority) are still not over the events of 2008. They dwell on ancient history & continue to argue lost causes related to BF.
The irony is simple. I haven’t changed my view of GB in decades. I’ve supported them through the bad & the good. That won’t change. However, what happens when GB kicks ass in 2009 & beyond? How will the Favre Apologists then justify their abandonment of their team?
How can you possibly be a fan of any team when you’re looking for anyway possible to trash the team ?? Who needs fans like you, we already have to deal with Viking & Bear Fans.
July 9th, 2009 at 10:42 am
Rocky, I like the rivalry of Bear and Viking fans. The think I”m getting sick of is the small but loud contingent of pissed off Packer fans.
July 9th, 2009 at 10:43 am
I’ve never argued that we should have kept Green. It was pretty clear that he was losing it and should have only been retained at a reasonable price. I don’t know anybody at the time that was saying we should have payed anywhere close to what Houston payed. So I don’t call that a ballsy call on TT’s part, but I will say he made the right decision there.
As far as Rivera and Wahle, you guys all want to play the hindsight game. It goes something like “Rivera had injuries 2 years after we let him go, so therfore it was the right decision.” Does Thompson have a crystal ball? If Jennings suffers a career ending injury next year does that mean he made a mistake to re-sign him? I’d also point out that Wahle was all-Pro the season after we let him go and is still in the league. You guys must have watched the line play of the Carolina Panthers with a great deal of attentiveness after 2004 since I keep seeing the word “serviceable” attached to Wahle’s name. Didn’t know enough people payed enough attention to interior offensive lineman for other teams to apply adjectives to 4-5 years of play.
Thompson let the interior of our line go following the 2004 season and we’ve been searching for answers ever since. I’m well aware you can’t sign resign everyone and am not suggesting we should try. I thought it was folly at the time to let them BOTH go and a guy that actually did the job for 12 years apparently feels the same way.
Some of you on here seem to be so enamored of Thompson you act like nothing he’s ever done is wrong or that it’s even ambiguous or debateable. He was right when he tore up the line, he handled Favre perfectly, he was right to not get Moss for a bag of chips. Well, when is all this being right going to payoff in the win column? For me it better be this year.
July 9th, 2009 at 10:46 am
@ MARK
I’ll ask again.
“But TT has said he has regrets about Moss.”
This line needs a link or a quote. I read alot. Never have I seen anything close to your assertion.
If you’re going to make statements of this type, you need to support them. It’s difficult to take your posts seriously if you’re making up stuff. Comprendo?
July 9th, 2009 at 10:51 am
Rocky,
So if I don’t think Thompson walks on water somehow I’m not a Packer fan? I’ve said recently on this board that he hasn’t been terrible but he hasn’t been great either. Evidently if I don’t bow at the ankles and think the man can do wrong I’m not a fan of the team?
What a blow, to be cast into the lake of non-believers by one such as yourself. I guess Hallstrom doesn’t support the team either?
By the way, I’ve said repeatedly I am optimistic about this season and think we should have at least 9-10 wins. What I’ve also said is that if we sub .500 again I think it’s time for a change.
July 9th, 2009 at 10:58 am
It’s hard to take you seriously Rocky, when you post anti-Favre quotes from a Vikings site. Alot of the “ancient” history I’ve been talking about lately has to do with the wisdom of letting 2/5 of a great line go and whether or not passing on Moss was a good idea. You seem to be the one that can’t let it go.
Way to bypass my comments on the Hallstrom article by the way. For a guy that keeps saying he reads alot, you seemed to miss a few things.
July 9th, 2009 at 10:58 am
@ JeffN
I agree. I like the back & forth & resentment with Bear & Viking Fans also. That’s the way it is suppose to be. As Packer Fans you defend your team against all other fans of the opposition.
I also agree that it is getting very tiresome to have to deal with that portion of the Packer Fan base that has lost their allegiance to their team. Can you imagine fans at the HS or college level dumping on their teams? I’ve been an avid PackerFan for decades & I never thought that a portion of that fanbase would become so enthralled with one player that they would turn on the team itself.
July 9th, 2009 at 11:03 am
I will not dump on a guy for making A mistake, or two, in a dedicated effort to improve over all. Still think TT was brought in to rebuild because we weren’t winning it with what we had. Hell, I once sent one of my kids to school in a Chevy Chevette, GMs first throwaway car. I know, I know, the team he inherited had a better record than since hes been here. Things change, you adapt and adjust, get used to it!
July 9th, 2009 at 11:07 am
Sorry PB but the story about Rice & his comments is actually all over the web including MJS, PFT, SI, ESPN, etc. etc. - You’ll be more informed if you expand your web experiences.
Hallstrom said some good things about former Packers & retired players. My comment was he said nothing good about today’s players. In fact, he didn’t even know the names of some of them. AJ is the LB he was referring to. Hallstrom’s comments fit your mind-set almost perfectly. He talked about the past & failed to focus on the positives of today’s team. He’s no more a 2009 PackerFan than you are. Sorry, it is what it is.
July 9th, 2009 at 11:19 am
“Lost allegiance to their team.”
You’re right, I’m not a Packer fan anymore, that’s why I spend so much time reading about them and posting here, because I hate them but I’m a masochist.
Disagreeing with some of the actions of management is not equivalent to dumping on the team. Or, since you’re such an impeccable supporter of the Packers were you on here defending Mike Sherman on the Joe Johnson or Cletidus Hunt moves, lol.
Quit being such a pompous ass, Rocky. Go a few posts up where I talked about the how’s and why’s of being a fan, as per Punk/Larry. Your predilection for attacking anyone who doesn’t see eye to eye with you as not a fan is the last resort of a guy who can’t argue. It’s a give up move.
July 9th, 2009 at 11:23 am
Your link to the Rice comments says “viking-blog” on it. Your original post did not say he had nothing good to say about modern players, it said anyone. Sorry, but it is what it is.
July 9th, 2009 at 11:29 am
On a more serious note. A Minneapolis Judge has blocked the suspensions of the DTs Williams. Each time a Minnesota Judge has blocked the rules when no one else involved got this treatment. These judges need to be investigated and disbarred they are probably Viking season ticket holders. All the other players had to serve the suspensions, what ever happened to equal protection under the law?
July 9th, 2009 at 11:32 am
By the way, if you read the Hallstrom article, he said good things about Rodgers, Kampman and by extension Barnett. The context in which he was talking about the current Packers was December of 2008, while we were busy sliding to a 6-10 record. How many positives was he supposed to be talking about?
Perhaps you should focus your reading endeavors on quality and not quantity.
July 9th, 2009 at 11:36 am
Pack4life, you’re saying Minnesota judges are blocking an NFL suspension? Do you know on what grounds?
July 9th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
Had to laugh at Philbin’s comment “Footballs not that complicated.”, as he walks around w/ an 80 page playbook. Granted he was talking in reference to an OL player, but the step up to the NFL, for anyone, has to be more than just the speed of the game. It amazes me that so many of you (not me) think this running a team thing is so easy w/ so many simple solutions; its as if a decision “here” has no affect on “there”. Don’t think so!
July 9th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
Never said it was easy, Punk. Matt Millen was a great player and an announcer that demonstrated considerable insight and understanding of the game and we all know how well he did!
These guys have a very tough job–they also get paid pretty well to do it though, so I don’t have alot of sympathy for them. Some decisions are tough and I’ll say it could go either way. The ones I feel are fairly obvious decisions and just blunders are the one that stick in my craw and I don’t let go of.
Not that I’ve spent alot of time talking about it, but dumping our punter last year for Derrick Frost, a castoff from the Redskins, and the Harrell pick leap to mind in addition to some of the other well worn subjects.
July 9th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
Harrell is an enigma for sure, but the Favre, Moss, Whale, Rivera, Green, discussion is moot at this point. The real discussion shouldn’t be going on forever about “what if”, it should be about this team as it is and do we like it or not? Is this a good team or not? Is it a 13-3 team or a 6-10 team? None of us really know; all we can look at is the current roster and how does it stack up, man for man, with the rest of the Division. There aint gonna be no more dynasties guys.
July 9th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
I’m all for talking about this team but we are in that woeful period between the end of OTA’s and the beginning of training camp. Talking about who’s going to do what seems a little pointless to me until we have something to talk about. If you’d like to start a new subject, feel free.
July 9th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
The Judge says they can play while further appeals go on.
July 9th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Hell, that could be forever if they’re anything like normal appeals.
July 9th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
I’m not sure what happened with the whole Derrick Frost and Jon Ryan thing. Either something happened behind the seens or TT just made a big mistake. Ok fine so TT screwed up on Jon Ryan and Justin Herril. Fine big deal. TT isn’t perfect but he still has put together an excellent football team for this year. Herril still could prove us all wrong. We have some excellent years ahead of us with this young team with a lot of really good players that are going to stick around for a long time. So what if a few mistakes were made.
Both 13-3 and 6-10 are ancient history when it comes to what happened “last year” vs “what will happen this year”. 1 year is ancient history in the NFL. 6-10 has no bearing on what this team will do this year. We could end up 12-4 or 13-3 this year. I would rather focus on that then a few mistakes a guy made. If you point out all the guy’s mistakes you also got to point out all the good things he did to be fair.
July 9th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
I’ve given him credit for a good draft this past off-season, Woodson and Pickett have both been valuable pick ups, Jennings was a steal in the second round, and I said just a few posts ago letting Green go as opposed to over paying him was a good decision. Obviously, we’re in good shape as far as cap goes so his fiscal management is good too.
You guys have to quit acting like I never give him credit. Let me say it yet again: I have severe problems with some of the things he’s done but on balance with the positives (finding Ryan Grant out of nowhere is another positive) that rates him fair to middling in my book. I think we’re all looking forward to a good season, but let’s not start giving him credit for something that hasn’t happened yet, hmm? Some of you guys act like we’ve already done something in 2009. My last memory of something that counts is 6-10.
July 9th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
Packer-bob, forget trying to reason with TT loyalists. We all know what you posted and we all know it’s reasonable. They’re obviously not Packer fans, they’re TT fans and he doesn’t even suit up. He’s not the worst or the best. He’s learning on the job like the rookie GM he is. Nobody but his family could be as blind to his failings as the TT fans. As for the rest of us, we have to hope he improves with experience, so his loyalists don’t have to keep posting lame excuses for him. And, trash us for daring to point out his mistakes.
July 9th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
Well when the Pack wins the superbowl within the next 2 or 3 years you won’t be calling him a rookie then. Also he got Seattle to the Superbowl. I wouldn’t call him a rookie.
Another thing is he took a cupboard bare team and turned it into a cupboard full team. You just watch this season. They will be back on top.
July 9th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
Mark, PB doesn’t need advice from you. While some of his points are a stretch many of them are good points even if I don’t agree. PB can hang with the big guns on this board like Rocky, Punk, Legat, and myself.
LOL In any case you can disagree with me to if you want.
The only thing I ever said I found questionable about PB was betting against the Pack but we talked about all of that already.
July 9th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
OK, can we all kiss and make up now?
Getting back to Punk’s post a few back—
As far as how good we are this season, that’s just it, it is anybody’s guess.
If we want to talk hypothetical’s, what’s everybodies opinion on how long Driver keeps playing at a high level before he starts showing his age. That guy has been a hero of mine over the years for his work ethic and toughness.
Jennings has clearly supplanted him as the best receiver on the team and is the more dangerous big play threat but Driver still has alot of value as a possession and over the middle receiver imo. Plus I think he brings energy and a tough mindset to the receiving corps by his example.
What are the opinions on him this next season and how long he stays with us or in the league?
July 9th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Given the way he takes care of himself I give him 4 more - all as a starter.
July 9th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
All with us do you think, Punk?
July 9th, 2009 at 7:04 pm
Link for anyone that reads to read the details of the Vikings’ Williams boys and their legal status:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Ams6qg8VSp9MfYoaFbjJSVs5nYcB?slug=ap-nflsuspensions&prov=ap&type=lgns
July 9th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
Yep, I get the impression that if MM/TT tell him he has been replaced, he would retire. Don’t know enough about his background to know where else (like near his home town) he would play. REGGIE
July 9th, 2009 at 10:39 pm
Somehow hit a wrong key!!! Started to say that REGGIE went south simply because it was near his true home. We all know several “retirement” age players and too many QBs who thought they could keep going for just one more shot with another team. Montana, Unitas, Testeverde, Mc Mahon, and others come to mind. Shoot, even Rice; but somehow I don’t see Driver doing it. I think they all know they’re through, its just that one more payday syndrom and the I’ll show them attitude. Very rarely works.
July 10th, 2009 at 7:41 am
Re Williams’: What do you expect from a legal system that sends Al Franken to the US Senate? Watch Jolly get the book thrown at him in Texas. Hope not!
July 10th, 2009 at 9:27 am
Mark Says: “forget trying to reason with TT loyalists. They’re obviously not Packer fans, they’re TT fans and he doesn’t even suit up. He’s not the worst or the best. He’s learning on the job like the rookie GM he is. Nobody but his family could be as blind to his failings as the TT fans. As for the rest of us, we have to hope he improves with experience, so his loyalists don’t have to keep posting lame excuses for him. And, trash us for daring to point out his mistakes.”
I hope this is “tongue in cheek”!?! IMO, NFL GM’s are like umpires in a baseball game - if they do their jobs well nobody notices them! With a few exceptions, they shun the spotlight while team owners, head coaches and players bask in the glow (which is as it should be). Coaches often have poor relationships with GM’s, as they think they can do both jobs. In some cases they can (Belichek); oftentimes it’s disasterous (Sherman). The continued rehashing of TT’s “mistakes” gets tiresome because there’s not a GM in this league who can’t be criticized with the benefit of hindsight….
If you throw out names of the top GM’s in the game, anybody with internet access can list “mistakes” they’ve made over a span of five years.
July 10th, 2009 at 9:34 am
Larry, you sound a little bitter. Coleman did a rotten job and I think it’s funny that you would put the blame anyone else. But I got a good laugh just thinking of all the neat stuff you could have posted. Seriously, I think the Williams’ should serve their suspensions like anyone else and you’re right about the phony court order but I’ve seen that other places. Maybe they’ll just serve it out later in the year. Goodell would really have to cave to let them get off.
July 10th, 2009 at 9:40 am
Iccy, it was written out of frustration that you guys are so willing to overlook his mistakes. We criticize everyone else, why not him?
July 10th, 2009 at 9:48 am
I think the real danger here, Mark, is that the Judiciary gets involved - again - beyond the confines of the law. I wont even comment on the MINN voter(s) who collectively started this whole thing. Anyway, who is going to be first to take a shot at TT for not jumping at that list of FAs. I wonder if they come with their own walkers?
July 10th, 2009 at 9:51 am
Punk,
Montana had some success with the Chiefs, I wouldn’t put him in the Unitas/Namath category of completely washed up but hanging on. Testeverde and McMahon hung on but knew their roles. I never got the sense of desperation from them that they might reclaim past glory.
Rice, on the other hand, really tried to hang on. I think he went from the Raiders, where he had some success, to the Seahawks for a couple before being released, to the Broncos for a try out where he got cut prior to the season. Not that I blame him, mind you, but I get the feeling with his ego that if he could make a team as a 5th WR right now he would.
July 10th, 2009 at 9:59 am
Iccy,
I think many of the “Thompson does no wrong” crowd use hindsight to defend him, ie. Rivera went to hell later so he was right to let both guards go, Favre hurt his arm and sucked the last 5 games last year so it was right not to take him back, etc.
I can assure you, and my wife can attest to, the fact that all of the grievances I have were bitched about at the time the decisions were made, not later down the line.
July 10th, 2009 at 10:27 am
PackerBob, Glad you liked that article. It’s one thing for fans like us to say it was not a great move to dismiss a chunk of the O-line, but when you hear it from a guy in the trenches, I think that makes a statement. As much as things look like they are on the right track, it seems to me mistakes like that led to more losses…and more unnecessary O line draft choices than were needed. I still believe continuity in O line play is foundation for success.
July 10th, 2009 at 10:29 am
Whoa now p_b, “Thompson does no wrong” are your words, not the words of we who support Packer management of which TT is only one part. He does not exist in a vacuum, he is part of a team, get it, TEAM. Of course TT has made mistakes but I prefer mistakes of action, rather than, reaction always trying to make the TEAM better. I have never made excuses, I’m just satisfied that, overall, he has made more good decisions than bad and that he is as good or better than most GMs out there. These are business decisions that are made not emotional ones, and do no wrong and ego comments are ridiculous.
July 10th, 2009 at 10:40 am
PB - Hopefully your wife set you straight on the Wahle issue; no offensive guard in the NFL was worth the contract doled out by Carolina!
July 10th, 2009 at 11:24 am
Carolina apparently likes to pay big bucks for guards.
USA Today (2008)has a list of the Top 20 highest-paid NFL players this season, and Big Ben leads the way at a staggering $27.7 million. This list is actually pretty absurd: JaMarcus Russell is 4th at $16.8 million, guard Chris Snee of the Giants is 6th at $14.8, Tampa Bay center Jeff Faine is 14th and $13.1 million, and Carolina guard Travelle Wharton is 17th at $12.8 million. No Brady. No Eli. No Brees. No. LT. No Adrian Peterson.
July 10th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Probably rhetorical, but why in 90 years have we never had a “premiere” RB? I’m too young to know about Canadeo, Hornung had to share the ball with Taylor, Anderson too short a time, Brockington (now there was a pile pusher who destroyed LBs) maybe but a HOFer not, Levins a journeyman, Green (oh, those fumbles) hardly, and now Grant another journeyman. Our top players have been QBs (Isabel, Starr, Dickey, and Favre) and WRs (Hutson, Lofton, etc.). Heck, Isabel-Starr-Favre account for 40+ years of the 90. I can’t be the weather because Jim Brown, OJ, and Sweetness played in our kind of climate. Please Mr. Thompson, draft a LT, Peterson, or a Barry Sanders in my lifetime; I don’t have that much time left!
July 10th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
Punk / Larry - I think you’re confusing Cecil Isbell for Arnie Herber. Herber played for a decade and is in the PF HOF. Isbell set some records passing to Don Hutson, but he only played for five seasons, retiring at age 27 to coach college ball.
I LOVE Packer history! Johnny McNally & Clarke Hinkle should be added to your list of star RB attractions…
July 10th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
I think Ahman Green was the best of what you mentioned. We could have drafted Sanders sure, but Tony Mandarich was the greatest thing since sliced bread and didn’t take steroids. Brockington might have been even more special had the Packers not literally run him into the ground. McArthur Lane and Brockington may have been as punishing a duo as there has been in the NFL. And, alas I had big hopes for Dave Hampton and his clutch on the football was less than spectacular.
July 10th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
PackerBob, thanks for the link to the Williams boys. Ah, the Minnesota legal system. If Al Franken can become a senator, anything is possible in MinneSO-SO-ta.
July 10th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
HOF’ers are a category unto themselves. They are the elite of the elite–it takes such a high level of play for such a period of time (at least as far as modern players are concerned–No more Gale Sayers type) that there simply aren’t enough of them to go around.
I know you are just lamenting the fact that we haven’t had one of those once in a lifetime type running back since the 60’s (think how long the Bears have gone without one at QB) but OJ, LT, Sanders haven’t brought there teams any SB’s. Even Payton, who I still consider the best all-around back I have ever seen, got his one SB more on the strength of the defense than anything else. If Neal Anderson had been the feature HB that year, they still would have won it all.
I think in the modern NFL, you need a well rounded offense and a strong defense. If the defense can be good and Grant can just do an imitation of Levens in his prime, the rest should take care of itself.
July 10th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
Iccy,
The only thing my wife sets me straight on is to shut the hell up about the Packers!
July 10th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Larry, I like the history too. Firstly Taylor was great, we were blessed to have him. Second great running backs aren’t as important to winning as QBs. So I’ll take our history over any other team and have fun watching Sayers(no titles), Brown(1 title), Payton(1 title), Peterson(zip), Sanders(nada),Dickerson(none) and Simpson(nope). Emmit Smith, Franco Harris and Dorsett won multiple times but I think the other guys were better and more exciting.
July 10th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
That makes the point I was getting at Mark—greatness at running back alone means very little. The guys you named were part of elite teams that were stocked on offense and defense. That doesn’t diminish their individual greatness, but you’d have a hard time convincing me that say Harris was better than Payton just because he has more rings, although some seem to accept that argument for the QB position.
In the current climate, I’ll take greatness in my QB’s and WR’s and a credible running game vs. the other way around. It’s too easy to shut down the run against even an elite back with no passing attack, witness the Vikes the last two years or the Lions for most of Sanders time there.
My other point to punk/larry is the greatness doesn’t have to be HOF greatness. We were loaded with receiving threats in our last SB win although none of those guys were HOF caliber, they were merely great in their day and their prime. Terrell Davis would be another example of what I mean–dominant for a stretch, vital to 2 SB wins, but still probably not a HOF’er.
July 10th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
Speaking of dominance for a short period of time, anybody remember Earl Campbell?
Talk about speed and power! His battering ram style and overuse wore him down quickly, but for 3-4 years he was the most intimidating rusher I can think of.
July 10th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
We only have the 8th best receiving corps in the league, behind not only the Cardinals and Patriots but teams like the Bills, Texans and Broncos if you believe Fox sports:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9787230/Positional-Power-Rankings:-WR/TE-packages
July 11th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
I thought Hasenmayer was nuts! His premise for the article was WR/TE combos and then picked ARI #1 w/ no TE. You guys are all right on the RB issue, I was just musing. I’ll tell you, though, I lived/worked in Ohio during Jim Brown’s run so saw him on TV all the time. Nobody, but nobody (well there was that guy that did ONCE, forget his name), that could put him down one-on-one. He’d give you a leg, and then take it back. Power, speed, strength more than shifty, inside or outside, complete. Then he retires at his peak. Back to the Fab5 I thought the article would be about the complete roster of receivers, not just the top two.
July 11th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
PackBob,
That Fox stuff is hard to swallow. Don’t know what their criteria is and I understand the Cards and Pats but then it gets dicey. I occurs to me we probably get an F rating when it comes to TE. Perhaps a coincidence, but when the Packers have had solid TEs, they usually are playoff bound. The days of Chumura and Keith Jackson are way back in the rearview mirror! I gotta get credit to the Cowboys who have somehow found guys that play that position very very well. Good at finding a seam and also at helping bail out their qb when he’s scrambling.
July 12th, 2009 at 6:10 am
This thread is getting pretty long, Al, but here is another topic to chew on while we are waiting for camp to begin………..Are Pro-Sports Doomed? What happens when contracts mean nothing? For years we’ve had examples of players holding out, etc. in violation of their contracts, but the counter has always been that those contracts have clauses in them that let mgmt cut the player at any time. OK, thats an agreement known going in and maybe there is some balance there in leverage on both sides. However, not to bring politics into this, but the GM reallocation of ownership completely destroyed the contract rights of the preferred stock holders. That precedent then leads to the Williams’ Wall situation. What that judge did completely abrogated the CBA wherein all player members agree by contract to abide by the NFL rulings (after appeal). If the government can ignore contractural agreements, and the judiciary can ignore contractural agreements, and I do not have to pay my credit card bill or mortgage, then what good is a contract? I always thought that Pro-Sports were based on a contractural agreement between the player and the team, but does that matter anymore? Men, I feel like that guy at the window shouting “I’m not going to take it anymore”, and I wonder what a handshake means now.
July 13th, 2009 at 11:54 am
Doesnt matter on WR rankings. Look at NE last year when Brady went down. Buff and Houston have big ? marks at QB and Denvers best Wideout doesnt event want to be there.
July 13th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/109871
July 13th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Wow, fun for the night but you’ll feel terrible in the morning, wow!
July 13th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
Interesting analysis. Amazing how many NFL fans feel the same.
Interesting quote from the article:
“People show their true colors when forced with life changing circumstances. The good people will always do what´s right, what they know in their hearts is what should be done. The jerks only care about themselves. They´re shallow. Their motivations are strictly personal with no one else´s well-being in mind.”
Sounds pretty close to me.
July 13th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
Or this:
“And sure, you won´t hear any complaints if he wins, which I think he will. I mean, let´s face it, the Vikes are loaded. They have all the tools to make a deep playoff run, and Brett Favre could, in fact, help them get there.
But it will be blood money.
Because Brett Favre is just using you, Vikings fans, for his own personal gain, not yours.”
Face it. The guy has it spot-on.
July 13th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
They could go all the way w/ him, but odds are always against any specific team. I hardly think that team w/ has the horses we did, nor the coaching. What you can expect is for him to get reckless with the ball, because thats the only way he knows how to play. I think he could have shaved for Air’s funeral; that kind of beard only takes a few days to grow. Pick, pick, pick, more power to him. Can’t wait.
July 13th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
If he can suit up, I expect #4 to have a hot start and get worse at the end of games and as the season wears on. Who wants to bet on how soon he gets replaced?
July 13th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
I seldom agree with Skipper Bayless but he might be right in saying number 4 won’t play this year.
July 13th, 2009 at 8:32 pm
I have to admit I have doubts now after the four-letter network report. In the same breath I want it even more knowing he can’t play. But having said that, has the Interception Machine ever backed down from a challenge?
July 14th, 2009 at 11:04 am
Hilarious article, just hilarious. Blood money? Like a prostitute? I’m still laughing, LOL!
July 14th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
Matt, thanks for the article about numero cuatro.
“It´s like dating a prostitute. Sure, you may have some fun for a night, but you´re going to feel really bad about yourself afterwards. “