Packers are done

After today’s debacle, it is clear the Packers should have kept Brett Favre. You all were right, I was wrong. Go Brett!

RIP Aaron Rodgers.

Thanks for your support over the years. it was fun while it lasted.

Over and out forever.

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  • dd

    I understand that your mad and I really get it but we made a good choice in Aaron rodgers he just needs more work and he will get better in time im just glade that its over and i hope we can move on

  • TRIP

    C’mon Al…. We have a great QB, they do too… I miss having Favre, can’t lie. But, its not about Favre vs A-Rod…. Minnesota simply has the better team. Our season might be over if we can’t beat out ATL and DAL (maybe NYG). But, no need for you to base packernet’s existence on you being right or wrong about Favre. Be bigger than that.

  • Jeff

    Yes, we just got schooled, and Favre got exactly what he wanted. But two years from now, we will have a very good Aaron Rodgers locked up indefinitely, and the Vikings will be back to choosing between T.Jack and some other poor rookie.

  • Rocky70


    Talk about an over-reaction…………… Beating the 0-7 Bucs next week puts us at 5-3…………….. We’re in pretty good shape, IMO………….. We have work to do but there are nine games to improve……..

    I wouldn’t take BF over AR or a half-dozen other QBs in the NFL……….. Al, don’t you want to be blogging during the ‘BF Swoon”? …….. It’s right around the corner……….

  • Rocky70


    This is your fault…………

  • Oconomowockid

    These games have to kill the Favre haters!! Favre has been the difference in each of the games against us this year. Everything you have said over the past several years looks and sounds very week when he comes to our house and spanks us. Keep defending Ted and how he has built our team.

  • Thompson and McCarthy suck. They made the wrong decision. The Packers suck and will suck for eternity under those two. Packernet is no more.

  • jonnyfootballhero

    Al, please bring packernet back.

  • ChrisAZ

    Rocky70 how can you say that this loss is no big deal! WOW we’ll be back at 5-3 next week after beating another god aweful team. The point is that we cant beat any legitimate team. This season is at a total loss. God knows if we somehow pull a wildcard spot out of our ass we’ll get killed in the first round. This is a “what have you done for me lately” and a “win now” league…TT and MM have done neither. Get them out of here and rebuild.

  • packer_bob

    Al, if you go out like this, you are truly a coward.

  • packer_bob

    Rocky70 says:” PB

    This is your fault”

    Clearly. I’m also responsible for global warming and cancer. I knew I shouldn’t have opened up that box marked “Pandora.” Whoops!

  • Mpwest42

    Bring it back!!
    Best site on the Web!!

    Packer football wouldn’t be the same without Packernet!!

    Go Pack!!! Viqueens SUCK!!!

  • jonnyfootballhero

    pb, Rocky70, or anyone else who frequents this site – if this site truly is down for good, do you guys know of another good Packers forum to check out? I may not have agreed with very many of you, but it was always fun to see what you guys were thinking. Thanks.


  • TRIP

    Ok, if TT and MM suck, why does that mean an end of p-net? I agree that they made the wrong decision, at the moment, because Favre led us to 13-3 and only the frozen tundra kept us from playing the Patriots. But Favre would not be a miracle worker if his O-line was as bad as ours. Al, me and you have gone at it throughout the years, but I can’t imagine you going out like that because you took too much pride in hating Favre.

    I live in Philadelphia and I know EAGLES fans that have denounced their hatred of Favre and is “diva antics”. So surely you can stick around and support the PACKERS!!!! That’s what this is about right??? When you deleted my pro-Favre comments when the Jets were 9-3, that was on the reasoning that we were about the PACKERS! Well, Brett Lorenzo Favre, plays for the QUEENS! What does he matter to Packernet??

    I hope you are overreacting like every other time, I’m brand loyal and I don’t want to have to look for another blog. Thanks, lol


  • TRIP

    And what ever happened to Jon? lol

  • Jeff

    Hey Packer Bob. Is is comments like yours saying Al is a coward that has lead to this ! You people need to realize this is America and we have freedom of speech no matter how much the liberals want to take it away. I have not always agreed with everything said here but he has every right to say it wiithout personal attacks!
    Rodgers numbers were just as good as Favre’s today , we lost this game because Capers once again refused to send pressure at Favre in the first half. Once again stubborn McCarthyrefused to commit to the run even though Grant has always ran well against them. Grant had some nice runs and even if he would have had only 2 yards per attempt it would have kept the Vikings honest in the first half.That final TD to Dugan on first down was dropped and McCarthy did not challenge , it would have lead to a field goal and the margin would have been 7.
    Way to go McCarthey , on the drive going for the lead we had 2nd and 1 at the Viking 35 and you pass.

  • Jeff

    Let me remind you people that the Arizona Cardinals were 8-8 last year and did not beat one winning team in the regular season but they went to the super bowl.

  • chad


  • kevin

    Packers are a joke under T.T. and M.M. same old bullshit penalties and sacks plus Rodgers looked like Shit.

  • GolfKingUK

    I have never heard such a load of crap. All you fair weather fans, please go support another team. A true fan is a fan when we win OR lose.

    So the vikings won this one, the season is hardly over. Granted we have a tough road the rest of the season, but I will be on the edge of my seat cheering every game regardless.

    A true fan hopes we sneak into the playoffs and get another chance. Favre is now the enemy, deal with it, get over your love of the enemy. I hope we get one more chance at him, just think of the glory if we can beat them in the playoffs!

  • packer_bob

    If Al quits on the site because he can’t stand being wrong, he is a coward. If you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen comes to mind.

    I’m praying Al’s not really a quitter, as I like this site and don’t want to have to find another. If Al quits on this site because Favre’s not washed up yet, it would be the ultimate irony.

    Al, don’t be a baby for God’s sake. Keep the faith! It was a bad loss, but good God man, the world didn’t end! That won’t be until 2012.

  • iccyfan

    The sun still came up this morning and my kids all hugged me before they trundled off to school. The Packers still have the opportunity to regroup and make the playoffs, at which point anything can happen, possibly even a third meeting with the Vikes! Hope shines eternal…

    I didn’t get to see the game as I needed to attend an out of town visitation, but I caught some of the game on the radio traveling to and from. It sounded like the same two bugaboos got us again, namely mistakes by the o-line and the defence’s inability to make a stop when it counted.

    Antagonizing the site’s operator isn’t helping anything…

  • Rocky70

    5-3 at the halfway point with a home game with Dallas………. Interesting, is this the first team with 3 losses on the season to be eliminated from the playoffs? …….. I’ll have to check the record books to verify it……. LOL.

    Al, if you change your mind………. Just wipe-out this whole thread……… Start with a new one……………. We’ll get the idea……….. Personally, I don’t like losing but I like the challenge of the last nine games especially with the chance to play the Qweens again in the playoffs………….. I’ve said it before, I’ll rest if/when GB loses their 7th game of the season……… Otherwise, I’m in this for the long haul.

    PB………… I blame you for most most of the world’s ills……….. Someone has to be held responsible……… LOL.

  • jonnyfootballhero

    I’m still upset that the Packers lost the game yesterday, but I’m more upset that the packernet site is still down. I counted on that site to get all the latest Packers news and opinions of the fans.
    Al, you built something very special to a lot of us. To suddenly shut it down without any real reason or explaination is kinda hard to take. Please bring it back.


  • Stomps

    Al, you’re such a child as usual.

    Don’t believe it anyone… How many times has Al “I’m selling my tickets” Davis said this. He’s quit his site more times than Favre has mentioned retirement.

    Al is a troll in his own website. He’ll be back… if not… good riddence… lol

    Al if your for real… give me your info for your site and contact number and I’ll make sure everything is deleted for good for you so you don’t have to suffer the pain! LOL

  • iccyfan

    jfh – Only the main page is down; articles from today (11/2) have been posted on the “Article Links” tab.

    I guess it’s not unexpected that the tools are out in force this morning; both the Favre Lover and the TT/MM Hater groups will feel vindicated.

  • packer_bob

    Well, I lost a hundo, but does everyone now see that my doubts were legitimate?

    I said we needed to watch out for Havner, and he ate us up. I said we needed to protect Rodgers, we give up 6 sacks. I said I doubted we could Grant going, we couldn’t. I was afraid our defense wasn’t as good as their ranking, and they give up 38 points.

    On the upside, Havner had a good game and I thought the D did a pretty nice job on AP except for one run and the screen pass late in the game. We did make a legitimate comeback attempt, more than I thought they would after being down an embarassing 24-3 at one point.

    I’m still waiting for that quality victory.

  • packer_bob

    At least we get another doormat this week.

  • IndyCheezHed

    Al, I have never posted before on your site but have enjoyed and have gone to your site every day since I found it 5 or 6 years ago and I do agree with your take most of the time. This is the best Packer site there is and if you quit now you will be going against everything this site was about. All the Lombardi Quotes…Lombardi never would have quit when he was down, the Packers didn’t quit the past two times they played the queens, they came up short because of a lack of Clifton. Any other team giving up 14 sacks in 2 games would have lost by 21. To quote Bluto from Animal House “Did the Americans give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor”. Giving up is not the American way especially if some Non Packer Fans want to root for the past and not the future of the club. Please bring it back because what goes around comes around, there will always be another time.

  • roy jamison

    Al, please don’t jump off a cliff! Edge your way back. That’s it…one step at a time. The sun came up today and guess what? It’ll come up tomorrow. And please, quit with the number 4 crap. 4 had all stinkin’ day to throw the ball. Our rush stunk. Conversely, A-Rod should turn his O-lineman in to the authorities for impersonating NFL football players. If A-Rod were the Vikes qb yesterday, the score is about 63-10. You should be concentrating on the failure of Capers, clearly a 3-4 genius, to mount any rush…at all…on the Vikes qb. He should have learned something the first time. And you know what? I could have cared less if they sent all 11 to rush, just to smother number 4 once. But, the Vikes are clearly the better team until we get our O line and D line straightened out. Hope TT was watching.

  • Sammy

    Al is an emotional, hardcore packer fan. we all grieve in different ways.

    i really wanted the packers to win but the vikings are the better team. good effort though. al don’t quit the site, larry and pb would have nothing to do.

    teams peak at different times, i just hope we are going to peak in about 3 weeks, squeak out a wild card like arizona did last year. when they got hot, they were hard to beat. packers are ahead of where the cards were last year at this time.

    however, i still think tt/mm are not the management/coach to get it done. down with the albino barn owl (that was in memory of jon for you older posters). peace all

  • CheesyD

    Any Packer fan that says “Go Vikings!” is no longer a Packer fan but just another turn coat like Favre. Piss off, Al.

  • roy jamison

    Oh, I did forget our unspecial teams. If it weren’t for them, we might have pulled out a win! Hope TT was watching that. On a positive note, I liked watching Green again. He can actually catch screen passes!

  • Reid

    Stomps says: Don’t believe it anyone… How many times has Al “I’m selling my tickets” Davis said this. He’s quit his site more times than Favre has mentioned retirement.

    Good point, Stomps. Maybe Al and Favre are the same person?

    Everyone stop with the emotion and inject some logic. TT and MM didn’t take Favre back because of his waffling every year. It had nothing to do with his ability as a quarterback. They wanted to know who their QB was going to be, not sit around hoping he would give it one more year. They knew he could still play well, if not, they would have gladly ruined another NFC North team with a QB who couldn’t play.

    So everyone either is on the side of being sick of the on again/off again retirement and wanted some predictability, OR, didn’t care about the BF antics and would take him back no matter what.

    There’s a lot of games left and this team is improving. They just need some consistency.

  • Mike from Arizona

    Al, please keep this site up. As a life long Packer backer, it is by far the best site for information and general community feeling about the direction of this organization.

    Thanks for all your efforts!!!!

  • Jen

    Al, don’t take down the site. My fiance and I visit it often and you do a great job. We are all upset. This was the hardest loss in years. Aaron Rodgers is a great quarterback and the packers made the right decision. Favre is definitely motivated by anger and emotions and I don’t think he would be playing this good if he were on our team still. Even though it’s hard to say the Vikes have a good team. A great quote I read today reads “It’s like going into church on Sunday and the priest says, `Everybody go home, Jesus has now sided with the devil,” ’ Well in my opinion dancing with the devil will always come back to bite you in the ass. The time is coming and it will be great when it happens. 🙂 Gotta luv the BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

  • Servius

    Aaron Rodgers will be a better quarterback in the long run than Brent was.

    In ’93, his second year as a starter, Brent had more int’s than tds. Right now, Rodgers in his second year as a starter, has the best passer rating in the league.

    We may have lost the game and Rodgers may need more experience and we definitly need to protect Rodgers or we’ll get him killed, but we’re headed in the right direction.

    Keeping an aging veteran who caused us to cringe every time he threw the football his last two years with us would have been the wrong choice. And what ARE the Queens going to do when he retires AGAIN?

    We’ve been around for 90 years. We’re bigger than any one game, season, or player.

  • Pack4life

    Al I have been on this sight for years. You are the best Packer Site available bar none. If you do take the sight down just know that it was by far the best anywhere.
    I used to get Packer Plus and Packer Report. Since I have a toddler now I really cant keep up like I did years ago. Packernet was/is a lifeline. Thank you for everything!

  • I don’t feel very gentlemanly today, so screw ChrizAZ and Kevin. This reminds me a lot of the Lynn Dickey years.
    Tho’t Green looked explosive, was generally pleased with Lang and Barbre for a half and then they got caught up in 1st year starter mistakes that killed us.
    If Arod keeps refusing to throw the ball away, he’ll get McCarthy fired.
    How often do you see a DB miss the slap down by inches and then take out another two DBs? Did you notice Harvin was caught from behind on the second runback? Why the hell were the gunners so wide when he always comes straight up the middle?
    How often do you see a team out kick the coverage, more than once in a game?
    Will Capers ever start rushing the passer or blitz before the 4th quarter?
    THIS TEAM IS BETTER THAN THIS! Tough, tough, loss that goes w/o saying I guess.

  • Also; remember, some of you might like the “win now, at all cost” philosophy, and that is just what the Bearse and MIN have done, we’ll see who remains standing in the near future.

  • PackerDan12

    you cant shut this website down just because favre beats the packers.we could be Lions fans, how bad would that be. People are counting on you. I love the fact that all the best articles on the internet are linked to your web site. Something I will miss terribly. Also, I look forward to reading your commentary’s.
    Dont be like the real Al Davis, you are better than that…come back Please!
    Dan from RI

  • Jeremy (From Chicago)

    First off, I love this site and visit it multiple times a day. The articles link makes it easy for me to find coverage on my favorite team. You can’t take this site down it means too much to me.

    Second, I hate Cris Carter but I have to agree with what he said on Mike and Mike on ESPN radio this morning. Mike Goldberg asked him if the outcome would have been the same had the QBs been switched and he said, “Green Bay would have lost worse.” I have to agree with that. With Favre we always took the good with the bad and the bad was interceptions that killed a game not just a drive. If the bad with Aaron is a few sacks that kill a couple drives I would rather that and have another chance then throw a pick six and have no chance at all. The upside for Aaron looks brighter than any QB I can remeber. Over time we will get better and I truly believe he will win more Super Bowls than just 1.

    Games Comp. Att. Pct. Yards Td Int
    1993 16 318 522 60.9 3303 19 24

  • Jeremy (From Chicago)

    First off, I love this site and visit it multiple times a day. The articles link makes it easy for me to find coverage on my favorite team. You can’t take this site down it means too much to me.

    Second, I hate Cris Carter but I have to agree with what he said on Mike and Mike on ESPN radio this morning. Mike Goldberg asked him if the outcome would have been the same had the QBs been switched and he said, “Green Bay would have lost worse.” I have to agree with that. With Favre we always took the good with the bad and the bad were interceptions that killed a game not just a drive. If the bad with Aaron is a few sacks that kill a couple drives I would rather that and have another chance then throw a pick six and have no chance at all. The upside for Aaron looks brighter than any QB I can remember. Over time we will get better and I truly believe he will win more Super Bowls than just 1.

    Favre’s 2 year starter stats
    Comp. Att. Pct. Yards Td Int Rat
    1993 318 522 60.9 3303 19 24 72.2

    Rodgers 2 year thus far
    Games Comp. Att. Pct. Yards Td Int Rat
    2009 147 225 65.3 1989 14 2 110.4

    The point being I don’t know how Favre, Ron Wolf and Holmgren weren’t run out of town. Favre wasn’t as mature, professional, or smart as Rodgers is and he definitely didn’t work as hard.

    The point is that the future is brighter than it seems now. We have to give Favre and our organization the same benefit of the doubt we did Wolf and Favre and get behind Rodgers and this team.

  • Fritz

    Nothing wrong with win now but not at all cost. I’m glad we kept Rodgers but building and offensive line has ben absolutly offensive. We have to spend some money to get a couple leaders in that area. Go Packers!

  • Pete H

    They are a better team right now. Thats it. Rodgers is a great, young QB. He makes some mistakes. I think it is safe to say that so did Brett…on a rare occaision. Seriously though, he is going to learn an internal clock. He is going to learn to take the 1st down over going for it all, as on the last drive. I am much more disapponited in the scheme from the start. Wht are we continually starting out the game with long developing passing plays. The line sucks ass right now. They’re young, hopefully improving, but right now they suck. Call the game accordingly. Get the ball out of Rodgers hands quickly so he isn’t getting squished. And what the hell was with the double fake draw play action crap. That was one of the single worst plays I have ever seen. A bad line vs. a really good D line and you call the SLOWEST play ever! That and the field goal attempt. Seriously, a 52 yd field goal attempt to get you still a score down with 3 minutes left. Whats the point. That is where I am befuddled. You know, in ’07 when they couldn’t run or block, they just threw it quick and often. I know MM is a run first guy, and thats great, but it aint there right now. Throw throw throw. Division is over, Favre saga is over. Now maybe they can get to just playing football. Wild card is right there for them. Go fucking take it.

  • Pete H

    Oh and Jolly needs to get kicked in the nuts

  • jonnyfootballhero


    Is the site back up?? If so, thanks…. I really need this site. I love the information posted and the fan input, whether I agree with it or not.

    Thanks again,


  • Jeremy (From Chicago)

    What else burns my ass is how Favre would say time after time, “If the Packers didn’t want me anymore I would probably just retire. I can’t imagine playing anywhere else”.

    Now he’s mad that the Packers don’t want him (which is HIS FAULT) and he’s trying to stick it to Thompson and all us fans are caught in the middle.

    He held the team hostage for five years trying to decide on whether or not to play
    Because of that the Pack had to draft Rodgers as a long term plan. He’s the one who thought he was bigger than the team. Had he half commited Rodgers wouldn’t even be here and he would be. After his playoff performances against St. Louis, Atlanta, Philly and New York maybe Packer fans needed to realize he’s not the player he once was and that he just didn’t have what it takes to win in the playoffs. It took someone standing up to him for him to get his fire back. That is unacceptable and I’m glad he’s gone. I just wish he was out of the league so I as a Packer fan could continue being a Favre apoligist and live in fantasy world that he was still the same guy and the team just didn’t get it done. Truth is at the end of every close game I was more scared he’d trhow a stupid pick then I was confident he would get it done.

    If he wins a Super Bowl with the Vikings I will NEVER accept him back as a Packer. I could take it when he was on the Jets and I even pulled for him but not the Vikings.

    The Jets
    What an A-hole Favre is. He needed arm surgery and self admitadly couldn’t play up to the level he needed to to help his team but yet refused to help his team by sitting out so he could keep padding his stats. Sure they knew about it but who other than thompson has the balls to stand up to the Primadonna Favre. Real classy of Favre to throw his old coach and GM under the bus a year later. He should have paid their fines. He is not the same player, teammate or man as he was.

  • packer_bob

    Matt Hayton got banned? Booooo!!!!

    Apparently, Al has come to his senses as the site seems to be back to normal. Thanks Al, I think most of us, even when we disagree, find this site entertaining and informative. Thanks for not being a quitter.

  • Pete H, Jolly let himself be goaded into that and it cost us. However, you’ve got to give him the same benefit of the doubt that you gave Arod. This is the first year that he has contributed to this level. Arod does have that one year on him; makes a big difference.
    This whole YOUNG team needs some patience; we’re seeing it with the OTs. Next we’re probably going to see it with the CBs in a year or so. The LBs seem to have a better mix, but then Matthews seems to be the exception and pretty special.

  • packer_bob

    I agree, LT, Matthews looks really good.

  • Brett Favre played for the Packers for 16 years. He retired in 2008 and un-retired and was traded to NYJ. He retired in 2009 and un-retired and is starting for MIN.
    As far as I’m concerned thats it. No rancor, no hatred, no love, no nothing. Hes just another opposition QB, albeit a pretty good one.

  • packer_bob

    Yeah, I’ve pretty well moved on too Larry. The thing that was terrible about that loss yesterday has very little to do with BF and everything to do with where it puts us in the divisions and where we’re at as a team.

    Can’t run against good defense, can’t pass protect, still suffering from penalties, etc. I was glad to see us at least make it a game in the 2nd half. When Favre hit Harvin for that 3rd quarter touch down I thought we were gonna get blown out and was starting to feel sick to my stomach.

  • Yep,p_b, thats what it comes down to. Damned exciting tho when we made those 3 scores in a row. Shows what we are capable of, just a tier below, perhaps from keeping it going like the top tier can. Oh, those terrible Dickey years, so close, but yet so far. At least this team has nowhere to go but up.

  • 25 Years Pack

    If ARod was the queens quarterback, 63-10? what is wrong with you people, see that last berrian td when favre releases the ball after .2 seconds, snuck it between the defenders. Arod does not yet possesses the skill sets or experience to even see those plays, yet make them. That takes oh…about 17 years of experience. There is nothing wrong with Arod for where he is in his career, beingin his 2nd year starting, his potential is limitless. Well….I would argue his potential is completely limited under the current management and coaches. That if the quarterbacks were switched argument is STUPID. An argument from idiots.

  • 25 Years Pack

    I also believe Arods learning curve is also completely affected by this line, worrying about getting murdered every play should not be something your new franchise qb has to deal with, thank god he’s young and will still be young even if it takes a couple years to get a line put together. The forward looking problem is, once our line is back together, we wont have single credible defensive back since Wood and Harris will most likely be retired by then.

  • 25 Years Pack

    Everyone needs some heeling after what has just happened, I’m surprise the site is actually back up this soon. I’m thinkin we all needed a couple more days before we should talk, I don’t even think its worth talking about what happened, doesn’t do anyone any good, except queen fans.

  • Jack in Columbus

    Unlike the Packers’ loss to Dallas in ’95, I am not bitterly disappointed in this loss.

    The better team won. The better prepared team won. The better coached team won. The team that played better won. No matter how I phrase or rephrase the question, the answer is the same.

    That being the case, the Packers need to get better and play better .. and they definitely can. That is why we are so disappointed. We know they COULD HAVE won. That unfulfilled potential gets us fans.

    Like the last game in Minnesota, the fact that we were still in this game near the end, after having played so badly tells me that this team is very, very close to being an elite team. If you wanted to qualify or quantify it, you might say that we are two big plays and/or one more good player away from winning this game.

    Keep the faith, loyal Packers fans. Remember Dallas in ’95. This young team is on the brink o fbeing great. Now is no time to quite this team. Now is when they need us — as the 12th Man — to give them our full support.

    We have seen Favre fade in the second half of the season in recent years. He may do it again this year, and the Pack needs to be ready for whatever opportunity might present itself. Fortune favors the prepared.

    One more thing: I sure wish the fans at the game kept up the loud booing of Favre throughout the game. It sounded really nice on the radio (I “simulcast” TV and radio whenever I can ’cause Wayne and Larry rule).

  • 25 Years Pack

    ARod gave it his all in that game, I thought he looked good, it just seems to many players on his own team were working against him.

  • Andrew

    Al, I know you’re angry and obviously you can do whatever the heck you want with the site and your time. I know its your choice.

    I did want you to know though that I come here everyday basically and use your site for packer news. I’m done with professional baseball, basketball, hockey at this point (I’m 29) but I still follow and love the Packers. I hate Brett Favre with a passion after these last few years, and this is from a guy who spent a lot of money to see his first Packer game by flying out to Lambeau to see the Lions game at the end of the 07 season. I was furious yesterday. Thus, I can at least somewhat understand your frustration.

    Thus whatever you decide its cool. Please know though your site is the best. PERIOD. Bringing all these sources together is great. I know multiple packer fans out east who go here first all the time. You provide that site so thank you for what you do.

  • Pete H

    Larry, Jolly’s mistake is completely inexcusable on any level of football, be it high school, college or pro. It had nothing to do with learning the NFL game. I know he’s young, but there are lots of young players who don’t do things that fucking dumb. Rodgers mistakes are much more NFL game related. He has to get a better internal clock. He has to take whats being given more often…things like that. Don’t get me wrong, I still like Jolly going forward, but he gets no slack for that whatsoever

  • Larry

    Al, the difference in the teams isn’t the quarterback…it’s the offensive line. Iv’e always wanted to give TT the benefit of the doubt but this O line debacle hasn’t been fixed in 2 years and the answer isn’t on the roster.

    Kampy and Hawk don’t fit the scheme and should’ve been traded for O line help. 3rd straight year of youngest team points to mindset that youth be served above all else…above talent and experience.

    Penalties again hurt their effort AND cost the Packers points. MM needs to go at end of year.

  • Stomps

    I guess your back to deleting my posts huh Al?

  • 25, doesn’t it remind you of all those QBs (league wide) that went #1 in the draft to the lousiest team from the year before? At least we’re 4-3 and not quite that bad.

  • Mike from Arizona

    This team has some good players but no real depth. This is especially true of the OL, DL, Safety, RB, QB position. This is TT and managements job to work with the salary cap to build a great organization.

    Look at the Colts, they lost a great coach, but never lost a step. They have a great team and Manning makes it better.

    We compare Farve to Rodgers. We should be comparing the Vikings, Saints, Patriots, Colts, Eagles, Steelers to the Packers. These teams have coaches and management who instill order/discipline and a week in and week out game focus.

    Packers do not have this under MM. We led the league in the number of penalties and yards. We do not have sound play calling.

    Forget the players for a monent, we did not have this under Holmgren and to some degree with Sherman.

    Greatness will come when the true source is dealt with.

  • Jack in Columbus

    “Thompson and McCarthy suck. They made the wrong decision. The Packers suck and will suck for eternity under those two. Packernet is no more. – Al”

    Al – I say this with all the love in my heart: Cowboy up, dude!

    Farve resigned in early ’08. TT and MM had to promote ARod. When Favre unretired, TT and MM said he could compete for the starting QB job. But Favre said, “Trade me”. They traded him to NYJ. TT and MM did not screw up even if Favre led the Jets to win the Super Bowl. They did not screw up even if Favre leads the Viings to their 5th Super Bowl loss (which could happen). They did what was right for this team. ARod is the better QB already. What he lacks in experience is offset by his running ability (which Favre never had), and will be overcome in time.

    The Vikings won because their defense is solid overall, and their line is outstanding. Their offensive line protects their QB. Their receivers get open and don’t drop many passes. Their special teams can block and tackle and cover. Their team does not commit horrendously stupid penalties at the worst moments possible. They did not win because Favre is better than ARod, because he isn’t.

    TT and MM do deserve some blame, however. This team is not sufficiently staffed — that is TT’s fault. Many of the players we have are playing below their capabilities. That’s MM’s fault. Vince Lombardi used to wring coax every last drop of talent and effort out of every player. But MM ain’t VTL, even with 10 times as many assistant coaches.

    Al – look into a mirror and repeat after me: “I am a dyed in the wool, green and gold bleeding, cheese-munching, beer-swilling, die hard Green Bay Packers fan, and I will NEVER quit on this team! Then throw three Hail Mary passes and you shall be completely absolved of your venal sin of, albeit briefly, losing faith and giving up.

  • 25 Years Pack

    Yes Larry, we are in the exact opposite situation as most of the teams with high draft picks young qbs, those teams are playing to win, yet having their young qb be the one who makes the crucial mistakes that strip the win away. We got the young qb not making the constant mistakes to rip momentum and turn games around. You can look at any long term franchise quarterback and say his career was a success if he bring 1 champion ship his entire life, if ARod plays 20 years and wins the SB once, it will be a success.

  • CheesyD

    Jack in Columbus… excellent post.

    I am beginning to question McCarthy’s ability to lead this team. If it were different mistakes occuring, that would be one thing. But we’re seeing the same stupid things time and time again, going back into last season and beyond. I like Ted Thompson and the choices he has made. But if the Packer s do not make a significant run into the playoffs this year, then McCarthy has to go.

  • I thought we would win. But the Vikes and Bengals were both better teams than I gave them credit for and it’s not a shame to lose to them. It would be a shame if we don’t learn from the losses and improve.

  • AATP

    Just a little light reading to put things honestly into perspective – and thanks for deciding now to shut ‘er down completely there Al – I enjoy being able to come to this site as a one stop shop on Packer news.

  • AATP

    I meant to say thanks for NOT shutting ‘er down…

  • AATP, thanks for the article.

  • AATP

    Oh, and to add one more side point – GO PACKERS!!! This season isn’t over yet and, although yesterday was a disappointment, I’m optimistic and will continue to watch my team grow and get better as the season goes on… I drank plenty of beer last night to get that bad taste of losing to the Vikings out of my mouth, only to be replaced by that wonderful hangover taste this morning. 🙂

  • Sammy

    Please stop comparing Farve and Rodgers. Favre is a once in a lifetime QB. His legacy will outlive anyone on this site. Stats, Stats, Stats. One can always use stats in their favor and Favre has a lot of them. However, I almost shit when I heard Aikman et. al. throw out the stat that Favre has thrown 240 TD’s in Lambeau, the next most was Starr around 46 or something followed by Dickey with, I think, 39. (Sorry I forgot the exact #’s..I was buzzed.

    Hate ’em all you want but it won’t make ya feel much better. Let’s just hope that Rodgers learns to release faster, the o-line needs to protect him, and he needs his first winning season as he has as many losing seasons as Favre does…ooops, comparing ’em again.

    Favre is/was special in a way that stats do not show and never will show. I hope Rodgers can have his own legacy and not be compared to Favre. Noone can really be compared to Favre. Done with washing Favre’s balls for now.

    Now general managers can….how did the Vikings go from a laughing stock two years ago to one of the best in the league? They changed owners, management and coach. I want some changes at the end of this year because I really hate the Vikings, even more than the Cowboys. It is a win now league and these guys(TT/MM) for the Pack don’t seen to get it.

  • dd

    thanks AL for putting this site back up dont give up on the packers ok they need all the support that they can get from there fans its not over yet

  • Oddball

    Glad to see you back in business, Al. No sweat from me. It was a bitter pill losing that one.

    We played a good team – Favre was dialed in. We lost. It happens sometimes when you play good teams. I still say the only team on the schedule that scares me is Pittsburgh. Everyone else is beatable. Maybe we’re a couple players short of a deep playoff run, but I’m Ok with that. I feared this team was closer to 6-10 than 13-3, but I’m changing my mind on that.

    Develop a pass rush and a running game, and this team could be really special. Find a spark, like that Harvin kid, and we get big really fast.

    I’m not so worried about the game implications of the sacks to tell you the truth. Most of them seem to be coming when Rodgers is holding the ball looking to make a play. He usually ends up losing 3-5 yards. That’s not really a drive killer with the kind of offense we have. Would it be better to put it somewhere out of reach than lose the yards? Yeah. Do you recall how long it took Favre to figure that out? My only worry is that Rodgers is going to get himself killed out there before we have a chance to put this team together around him.

    I like us going forward, but we’ve got to find a pass rush and a way to run. As down as I’ve been on the O-line, it’s hard to debate Rodgers’s stats. If he keeps this up, he’s going over 4000 yards with about 30 TDs and 5 INTs. Brothers and sisters, I’ll take that from my second year starting QB and rebuilding O-line any day you like.

  • packer_bob


    Yes, Rodger’s stats will be gaudy if you project his current ones over the rest of the year. The only problem is that assumes he doesn’t get torn to little pieces first. He’s taking a beating.

  • Pack4life

    As a Tampa Resident I am glad Pack is coming here. Tampa will start a Rookie who is no where near the class of Stafford or Sanchez. Tampa makes Detroit look respectable. I would let Rodgers get a lead and run Matt Flynn out to see what he can do.
    Capers should let the dogs out all game. Play Lang at RT Babre is not an NFL player.
    On Jenkins criticism he has to be talking about the coverages. Is it a crime to play man coverage? Woodson, Harris and Williams can all cover man to man. Favre knows his offense too well to fool around with zone coverages.

    Let do turn about on Minnesota. Lets Hire Darrell Bevel. I cant see anything that Philbin is doing MM can get a new OC or walk the plank its that simple. MN has improved and its not just Favre. We can pay the former Badger more than the vikes.
    Anyway he knows he has to go somewhere

  • Brian Moore

    OK enough about Brett. He could be effective for another 5 years. The problem isn’t Rodgers, its the inability of TT to identify quality O linemen. That’s his weakness. And his scouts, or his for not getting the right scouts. Too bad they hadn’t traded Kampmen for some good O Line prospects or players – He’s a fish out of water. MM may be a great QB coach, but I’m not so sure about a head coach. When penalties time and time again kill us, it is a lack of discipline. And that goes to the top. And most of the time those penalites on the O Line. That needs to be the draft focus, and higher than 6th and 7th rounders.

  • Oddball

    PB –

    The point was that Rodgers and the O-line are getting it done in the passing game in spite of the sacks. If we’re going to see a significant improvement in this team rapidly, I think it has to come in the form of a running game and a pass rush. Rodgers is doing about as well as can be expected right now.

    All sacks are not created equal. I went onto and watched the footage of the sacks. Most of them aren’t as rough as you might think. He’s not standing in the pocket getting drilled by DTs. He’s rolling out and having guys catch him – yeah, it still hurts, but it’s not like standing tall and getting ploughed over by those big horses.

  • The Packers would suck even if and maybe even more if Favre was our quarterback now.

  • packer_bob

    Yeah, I agree that Rodger’s doesn’t tend to get drilled when he gets sacked. But didn’t you notice him limping by the end of the game?

    If we keep giving up these sacks, he’s going to get tatered by one of em just based on law of averages. I’m not criticizing Rodgers, although he does hold the ball too long here and there. I’m mostly criticizing the line. We can’t run or pass protect against a good defense right now.

  • kevin

    Watch out Tampa could be a Trap game. No wins they will be desperate.

  • Abraham25

    I’m not sure that it has anything to do with TT being able to find O-lineman I believe he found two of the best in the league Jones and some guy in purple. I believe it was the scheme we use and nobody who knew it well enough to execute the scheme. Now we have lineman trying to go in between two schemes and an lost O-line coach that is clueless. I believe the O-line play has affected the momentum of this team.

    Rodgers is going to be great he just needs to let go and stop being so hard on himself. Brett is great at that he has fun the only thing I can say pos about him. A diva who has his own changing room? The time he was given in the pocket again I don’t thing Rodgers would have had an incomplete pass. Lets not forget what happens to old man rivers in the second half of the season. History says he slows down in about two weeks.

    I think too many fans want to give way too much credit to Minn for being a good team. Stats say otherwise. There defense is not that good this year. Their offense is improved. We beat ourselves again. Packers need to put thier heads together and stop playing like the Raiders. They have the talent, their O-line needs someone to be able to coach these kids how to play. Improved play of that O-line and we see an improvement all the way around.

    The special teams play to me is what lost the game in the end. After going away from kicking deep two times resulting in a turnover and a short return why kick deep? We did a great job last week with the best returner in the league in Cribbs by kicking away from him and containing him when he did get the ball, what happened.

    The better team did not win the team that came in ready and pumped to play a playoff level game won. We played at a regular season level they played at playoff level game. If you think that this team has no upside you don’t pay attention to what this team can do when it is rolling which they showed in the third quarter.

    Is the season lost, No. Do we need to come together as a team, Yes. Can we run the table and win the NFC North probably not but I do think we could run the table. Is Minn going to run the table, No they will lose at least 3 more games and possibly more.

    When they get to the playoffs and have to really put faith in BF because a they have stuffed AP and he throws three picks, remember we have AR for at least 10 more seasons (if we can keep him healthy on the field and bring in a real number one running back).

    Only good things to look forward to thanks Al for putting the site back up. Just think how many times you wanted to walk away from the pack after a 2 or three pick game by BF. AR has 2 for the season.

  • justawake

    Reality check for all TT supporters:
    How has he improved our overall team in 5 years.
    Aaron Rodgers fell into his lap at pick 24 in 2005 draft. We were lucky to get him.
    Our best defensive player was acquired through FREE AGENCY five years ago.
    We’re a mess at RB, OL, and LB positions while we are carrying three FBs. There are so many holes on this team, its ridiculous. His reign of terror needs to end.

    AATP, I don’t think anyone truly believes that the QB position is really the problem. Rodgers is carrying this team right now.

    There can be no more defending this inadequate GM. He hired a sub-par HC who can’t out-coach a transvestite. It looked like we used the exact same game plan that got us beat vs the Queens in the first match-up. There will be a lot of talented GMs and HCs at the end of this season. The move needs to be made sooner rather than later.

    Oh and could someone check on Al and make sure he’s still among the living. Al, if you’re out there please let us know. I was asking for negative Al to make a comeback, just not to this extreme.

  • Sammy

    Yeah, guys Farve sucks!

    I hate to compare after I said stop it but….here is Favre’s record after the train left the station.

    Favre 16-8
    Rodgers 10-13

    I don’t blame Rodgers, he just needs better guidance. I don’t like the head coaching or general management.

  • jonnyfootballhero

    I was just wondering, did Tausher or Clifton get a chance to play yesterday? I was all caught up in the 1st half disaster and the second half comeback to really notice if either of those two came in at all during the game. If they didn’t get into the game, WHY THE HELL NOT!! Six sacks is ridiculous. Yeah yeah, ARod holds the ball too long….yadda yadda yadda….The dude needs some more protection and Barbre and Lang weren’t getting it done yesterday. Taush and Cliffy should have been put in there after the 1st quarter. The coaching staffs inability to make changes on the fly just floor me!

  • justawake

    The nightmare is almost over. Have faith Packer fans. The albino barn owl’s days are numbered. Tick tock…

  • Mike from Arizona

    MM stated we have the third best D in the league and that is how he is measure the D. He should run for political office.

    Excluding the Vikings, the Packers have played against 5 teams with a record of 12-23. The bad teams we have played have skewed the stats BIG TIME. In the three loses, we give up 30 or more points. Sound Defenses do not give up that many points. MM should be focused on points scored and not overall stats when measure success.

  • Sammy


  • RayL

    Admin – Please keep this site open.. We appreciate it and we should all refrain from name calling to each other – Packer Management excluded. We are all frustrated here and just disagree on current management’s philosophy and competence. But, please do keep the site open. It is the best!

  • RayL

    Sharper is looking pretty good leading the Leauge is INT’s but TT did not think we needed him. TT would not give up a 2nd RD for T.Gonzo and he is tearing it up in ATL for Ryan. TT will take back Ahman Green and Tauscher but not BF….hmmm did I mention the Real Meal Justin Harrell? I just think TT is lost….and he needs to go.

  • Paul W

    I have questions for some things I read from a couple of posters.

    “Develop a pass rush and a running game, and this team could be really special. Find a spark, like that Harvin kid, and we get big really fast.”

    Are you speaking about this year for the above statement? If so then what personnel do the Packers have that is going to grant your wishes, pun intended.

    “The better team did not win the team that came in ready and pumped to play a playoff level game won. We played at a regular season level they played at playoff level game.”

    Isn’t being a team ready and pumped to play another way to describe why they are a better team? Based on what you say would it be fair to ask why the Packers didn’t come into the game with this same mindset?

  • Oddball

    “Develop a pass rush and a running game, and this team could be really special. Find a spark, like that Harvin kid, and we get big really fast.”

    “Are you speaking about this year for the above statement? If so then what personnel do the Packers have that is going to grant your wishes, pun intended.”

    No – Sadly, I really don’t think the personnel is in place. Near as I can tell, Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy have (as a leadership pair) failed to draft and develop a single impact player on the OL or the Front 7. Clay Matthews seems to be making a bid to be their first.

    Where does the problem actually reside? Do we have good players and McCarthy just can’t train them up properly? Possible, but I’d have to be a lot closer to the team than I am to make that judgement. Is McCarthy doing the best be can with what he has and Ted Thompson is doing a bad job of evaluating personnel? Again, I can’t say with my knowledge. Most likely, it’s a combination. With the team at 4-3 and having had the testicular fortitude to come back and make a game of it the other night, I’d say it falls on both men to accept that they have built an average to good team.

    Maybe that’s as good as these guys can do, but I think the balance of the season tells us a lot. If the team goes 9-7, and starts showing some defensive development, I might have some hope. If we go 8-8 with the number of cream puffs on this year’s schedule, I might be more inclined to think our present leadership has topped out.

  • Jeremy (from Chicago)

    It’s a team game RayL. The two QB’s records the last two years are irrevelant. They play on different teams.

    TT is a bone head he has made many mistakes but the whole Favre debacle was all Favres fault. The Packers organization had their hands tied.

  • Steve Cheez

    Al, I love your passion and your love for our team. Nobody gets as high with a win or as low with a loss as you do, and that is something that the fair-weather fans just don’t get.

    If Packernet goes away, where will I feed my passion?

  • Pete H

    RayL……please look at the defensive backfields Sharper has been a part of since he left GB. They are all pretty bad. Yes he gets a lot of picks, but he is also out of position even more often. You could throw all day on those Viking teams…same with the Saints. I’ve actually almost come full circle on TT. He missed horribly on Harrell, but who hasn’t missed occaisionally. I am much more critical of MM. TT likes to be young..I get that. It is MM’s job to get improvement out of a team. That doesn’t seem to be happening regardless of who is out there. It is really the same mistakes over and over and over. That is the coach. This guy is a “disciplinarian” coaching a team with no discipline. He also shows up each week with a piss poor game plan. Other than the 3 sub-NFL caliber teams they come out of the gate like shit. A lot of teams have rookies starting on their line. None of them draw the kind of penalties that these clowns do…..even when Clifton Tauscher Wells or whoever is in there. He just seems to be hammering a brick wall determined to make his scheme work instead of tweaking to use what works best period.

  • packdoc

    I was nervous, checked in yesterday, said it was down, came back today hoping it was an abberation, and thankfully it was.

    This isn’t about Favre vs. Rodgers. The Packers made the better choice for the team in terms of QB’s. I’m happy Favre is still playing and having fun and showing people who always tried to convince us how bad he was, just how good he is. I hate that he’s playing for the Vikings.

    But I’ve moved on. The Vikings do have a better team than us right now. I still think we could beat them with a complete game, but they played one the other day. Special teams, D and offense all played well for them. Ours didn’t. They played well for parts of the game, but that won’t beat a good team.

    Anyway, I don’t want to relive that game again today. we should win this weekend, and then we have a tough stretch and hopefully our team can grow a bit during that stretch and get some wins. They aren’t out of it, but the road to the playoffs just got a whole lot tougher. If they can’t overcome this, then they don’t belong in the playoffs anyway. I’m still hoping for a Packer/Viking rematch in January sometime.

  • Not my words but this is the reality of the situation;

    “Imagine if Favre had stayed in Green Bay and Rodgers went to the Minnesota. The outcome of both games would most certainly be the same. The Vikings’ offensive line dominates the game, therefore the offense functions at a high level with an effective quarterback.”

  • Pete H, I have to admit I’m getting a little down on MM as well.
    Love to see those second guessers take TT (and scouting) down for the last 5 years drafts. But I think a second look is in order, especially the issue of not drafting OL.
    2005-Pretty good I’d say Rodgers, Collins, and Murphy (tough break) 1-3 not bad; Underwood at 4th so-so, could have had Preston (oh, we did later), IND went Gandy and STL went Terrell, but neither are playing there anymore. PIT got a starter in Herremans. In the 5th we got Coston. Overall, we got our QB and a starter FS.
    2006-Hawk(all delighted at the time, only liars say no they weren’t), Colledge and Jennings in 2nd. Not bad, and no OL in those 2 rounds for anybody. Hodge in 3rd, could have had McQuistan but hes a back-up at OAK no less. We got Spitz. In 4th we took Blackmon vs PAT who took O’Callaghan (not on their roster). I’ll take it.
    2007-Don’t even want to talk about it BUT, some pickups later on.
    Ah, 2008, the mother lode of OL especially at OT. However, think twice. In 2nd and 3rd we got Nelson, Brohm, and Finley. Again, those who now say they didn’t think Brohm was a steal, I think are lying pure and simple. But on to the OLs that year. Long #1, but on a loser. (6) more OTs taken in 1st while we sat by; all start but 2 are on teams with worse records than ours. In the 2nd we could have had Pollak, starter at IND, before Nelson and Brohm, but I stick with a backup QB and part of the Fab(5). Two OTs in 3rd after Finley are backups.
    2009-Surprisingly, 3 OL starters were taken in the first (2 on losing teams) but only Oher of BAL is worth a crap. I’ll stay with Raji and Matthews. We picked up Lang in the 4th and jury is still out on the kid.
    In summary there are 12 OL starters in the above with 6 more either not playing or backups. I know the counter will be the overpriced Wahle and Rivera (who tho’t he had us over a barrel) but you know what (?) neither are playing today.
    Anybody out there like to have Clifton, Wahle, Wells, Rivera, and Tauscher as our OL today. Yeah, I know, they couldn’t do any worse, yeah.

  • iccyfan

    With the amount of sensible discussion that has ensued, Al should threaten to shut down his site every week! Other than Sammy’s drivel, it’s been a pleasure to read thru this morning’s messages…

  • SN

    I can excuse some of the misses in the draft IF they had been more active in free agency. The Vikings have had some nice draft picks in recent years (Peterson, Harvin, etc.), but look at who they picked up: Favre, Allen, Winfield, Hutchinson, etc.

    You cannot just build a team solely in the draft. This is the biggest criticism I have of TT.

  • Larry

    Now that we’ve beat the Viking game to death…any reason to expect that Rogers won’t get absolutely killed by Baltimore, Dallas, SF and Pittsburgh. These 4 games will go exactly the same way…inability to run…lots of passing and a brutal beatdown of Rogers.

    Maybe we could spend some of the $20M of cap money for a decent burial for AR.

  • Oddball

    Pretty nice spinjob there Larry. You in politics?

    There is not one player drafted by Ted Thompson for the OL or Front seven who could possibly qualify as an impact guy. Trades? Nope. Free agent? Not really. After five years with Ted Thompson at the helm, we are among the worst in both sacks for and sacks against, and that’s what we got playing one of the softest schedules I’ve ever seen. Five years after his departure as GM, 4 of the 6 impact defensive players are still Sherman-era acquisitions. ( I really want to include Matthews here as a feather in Thompson’s cap, but it’s just too soon.)

    Anybody here happy with the run game these days?

    Yes. Thompson gets bonus points for drafting Rodgers, Jennings and Collins. He also deserves great credit for bringing Woodson in, and I’m hoping Raji and Matthews demonstrate that he is improving as time goes on. All this gets pretty academic. It still comes down to winning and losing over the course of seasons, and we’re not there yet.

    We fired Ray Rhodes for one year at 8-8. We dismissed Mike Sherman as GM though he’d never had a losing season. We dismissed him as a HC after one losing season where we lost the whole interior of the O-line and suffered so many injuries that Donald Lee and Samkon Gado looked good. But Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy deserve our unwavering loyalty for as long as it takes? I’m not delusional in my expectations here – I want to see us at 9-7. I want to see some semblance of a pass rush. I want to see a little rushing success against a quality opponent. Am I being too hard on our leadership to hope for that?

    In hindsight, I don’t think Wahle was overpriced. I recall Thompson admitting in a candid moment that he was surprised by the interest in him. It happens. He was new to the GM thing. I’m not going to string him up over that one now, but the results in the trenches this year so far just cannot be tagged as acceptable much less good.

    Ted Thompson is part of that failure. Like I said before, I’m not sure how I’d distribute the blame between him and Coach Mike. I’m just not close enough to the team to say that.

    With all this negativity, I’m sticking by my statement that the only team on the schedule that really has be bucked is Pittsburgh. I think I’m going to get my 9-7.

  • Can’t counter your arguements with any other fact data, Oddball, (probably ’cause I don’t want to) although I do know that MIN has 20% of their cap tied up in Favre, Hutchinson, and Allen. They also gave up a #1 and (2) #2s for Allen. They got lucky with Harvin and Favre is making Rice look All-World.
    I don’t think they can go all the way, but time will tell, I’ve been wrong before (mostly on the Packers).

  • TRIP

    I think it was justawake who reminded us how we barely and LUCKILY got A-rod in the draft. He was some mockers #1 pick a week or two before the draft, then fell all the way to #25. No move made by TT to get him, it was a simple common-sense steal when we knew Favre would not be in the QB in 2015. lol. So no accolades for acquiring A-Rod. And many defend TT’s idiotic management just because of A-Rod. Without A-Rod, his GM accomplishments do not outweigh the shortcomings.

  • Mike from Arizona

    Oddball – excellent post

    One thing not discussed by Larrytex is the money. If you get a first rounder who is a bust like (Harrell) it will cost you big time. The guarantied money given and base pay effects your future.

    The Packer, in general, need to stop pick Head Coaches with past ties to the organizaton. Look at the Starr and Gregg years.

    IMO – MM was picked because of his one year QB work under Holmgren. But in fact, MM had limited coaching experience at a high level and was never a Head Coach. His work in San Fran was sub-par before coming to the Packers.

    Holmgren and Lombardi were leader and disciplinarians. Starr, Gregg, MM know football but are not leaders nor disciplinarians.

    MM needs to go back and coach QB’s. Get Cowher, Shanahan, Holmgren, etc

  • Monty

    AL, You finally came over to the light! Since their divorce, Brett Favre is 16-8, TT/MM 10-13, guess we know who won that divorce.

    The team that Ted Built
    Offensive linemen and running backs cant run screens
    No Pass Rush
    No Pass Blocking
    No running game for cold weather

    Amhan Green as kick returner (no disrespect to Mr. Green, but the man is over done and never was a Kick returner.)
    Kicker who is not accurate
    Punter who’s net average is only 33.8 yards.

    We will be lucky to make it to 8-8 with Pittsburgh and Baltimore still ahead not to mention Dallas and da Bears in Chicago.

    Hey Mr. Murphy are you listening.

  • Mike, you’re new to the post. Money is always a large concern to me, as most on this site will attest to, to the extent I’m always forced to defend the lack of spending on large $$ FAs. To wit my support of TT on Rivera/Whale and Hutch to MIN.
    On the other hand I was estatic when Wolf got REGGIE, Jones, Jackson, etc.
    I think, over time, MIN and Bearse are in serious trouble (but then MIN always has been).
    I came into this Packer thing at the end of the really lean $$ years when this franchise almost went under. Then all those 70/80 years. Thank God for revenue sharing. Good times now with $$ in the bank, great facility, rising young team, and a franchise QB. Wasn’t always so.

  • 25 Yrs Pack

    DE-Fan, go away.

  • iccyfan

    LarryTex Says: “Good times now with $$ in the bank, great facility, rising young team, and a franchise QB. Wasn’t always so.”

    Hallelujah! Most seasons in the 70’s and 80’s we had little to cheer for coming out of the gate, with a John Brockington here and Chester Marcol beating the Bears there, but too much Scott Hunter and Randy Wright in between! Devine’s trades and methods nearly killed us; under Bart, Forrest and Lindy, .500 was an acceptable season. Now we at least have hope and something to b!tch about…

  • 25 Yrs Pack

    Anytime a team is still competitive after loosing a franchise QB, it is a really good sign. We all got spoiled assuming division titles.

  • Larry

    LarryTex, what you say is accurate just not reality in this day and age…somewhere between Dan Snyder and Tampa Bay is where teams need to be to compete. We are two linemen away from chasing realistically for the North title. 31 sacks in 7 games is a testament to failure and I for one believe AR has gotten away from more sacks than he is blamed for.

    The NFL monster has 3 heads: draft/trade/ and free agency and GB chooses to minimize FA. And need I remind you that an excellent FA is still cheaper than Justin Harrell!

  • iccy, whats that line about adversity breeds character, or something like that? Kinda like the tombstone that says “Frankly, I’d rather be alive.”. Well, frankly, I’d rather be winning, but it is what it is.
    I think its an advantage that TT is so unemotional, unlike the old days of which you speak. If, or when, he gets fed up with the (if it happens) undevelopment of the OL he’ll can MM in a heartbeat.
    As far as that goes, I’m totally disappointed with the Ds lack of pass rush. Capers seems to have a lock on the run D, but with the DBs we have, the pass D stinks. It comes down to the LBs and the fact that not one of them can cover a TE. I was a great adherent of the switch because I tho’t our LBs were better suited to the 3-4, but I’m second guessing myself now. From what I saw, Kampman was in the dirt a lot Sun but to no avail – I only saw him on Favre once.
    Jumping on TT now does absolutely no good, the problems are on the field, and maybe the sideline.

  • 25 years Pack “DUDE” whatever – All I’m saying is that this is not Rodgers fault. If Rodgers would have gone to the Vikings and Favre would have stayed in GB, the Vikings would still have torn us a new one just like they did.

  • No need to remind me, Larry, I totally agree. Draft is my base, FA is my supplement, and Trade has to be avoided at all costs. Draft is a 50-50 crap shoot, FA only when you need that special guy (singular, w/’95 the exception), and trades kill more often than not. I’ll repeat, again, because we have two great examples in our Div. CHI and MIN mortgaged their futures by giving away draft choices to win now. Come back to me in January when we really know how it turned out for them.

  • 25 Yrs Pack

    Incompetent irrational thinking with no basis or intelligence behind it. Just like arguing, well if we scored more points, we would have won. Except that “what if” argument makes sense and is provable. Jason Wilde, one of the dumber sports writers of our time, makes the argument you just made. Anyone who really beleives that a 2nd year started is doing better than a 18 Yr verteren hall of famer, who audibles at the line to change plays, AND CHANGE PROTERCTIONS, and still has one of the quickest release times in the league, doesnt have a clue about football. It makes me angry to win this argument because arguments like this are why AL ponders deleting this website. I just cant stant reading stupidty and having people beleive its fact. Now enough of that garbage….

  • 25 Yrs Pack

    Wood also agrees with me, he threw Arod under the bus. Said we couldnt get to him (bf) BECAUSE he would either change the play, change the protection, or get the ball out so quick it didnt matter how many we brought at him. Of course, if bf had Lang on his line, letting allen bascially dive off the line becuase he forgot that he has to block the NFL’s leading sacker that is right in front of him, that play might be different, but not all those plays we free fires like that.

  • 25 Yrs Pack

    now im done, this is why before the game, I said in my posts that if it is anything but a W that results, we should put this all behind us and look forward because these arguments are pointless. We should be done with the bf talk, only exception would be a future match up, which isn’t happening for atleast 9 more weeks if at all.

  • Jeremy (From Chicago)

    Has there ever been a QB with a 110 rating while getting sacked 30 times over a 7 game stretch? What AR has done has me real excited about the posibilities for the future.

    Would we have booed Fave if he came to town in a Jets uniform? I think I would have stood and cheered even if it was the SuperBowl.

  • 25 Yrs Pack

    Very Interesting A QB calculator that works!

  • ChrisAZ

    Read the one titled “Frustration and growing pains in green bay”. MM needs to go. Basically he’s ignoring his most prominent players such as jenkins, woodson, and kampman and telling them to shut up. MM says all he cares about is a top 3 defense..well that sounds nice doesnt it? But its not turning into W’s for the team. He’s so out of touch with the players and just needs to go. This is a win now league and what has he done for us lately?

  • packer_bob


    Great post.


    It’s not really fair to make generalizations on Favre vs Rodgers based on a comparison of their records. There’s no way to know what Favre would have looked like on last year’s or this years Pack, and no way to know what Rodgers might have time on last year’s Jets or this year’s Vikes.

    Unfortunately, the rest of your post is all true.

    And guys, it’s a little strange to me that some would think the Steelers are the only challenge left on our schedule. I wouldn’t be looking past the Cowboys, Ravens, 49ers, Bears etc of the NFL right now. These are all winnable, but they’re also losable. We should be able to walk over the Bucs this week no matter what, but I wouldn’t be taking too much more than that for granted.

  • AATP

    ChrisAZ – I read the column, I think you’re grossly exaggerating the point of that article. The point is that when a team is winning no one can argue how a scheme works. When a team loses, players may make claim that something in the scheme didn’t work. However, if it didn’t work that day, does it mean it won’t work on other days? Remember, Capers defensive schemes were 0-6 coming into the season against BF. Why would anyone think NOW it would change? I certainly had hopes our offense would keep up in scoring and give us a chance to win, but in no way had any misconceptions that it would be the defense that did it for us. And no where in that article did I read anything about MM insinuating that the players “shut up” and just play. He specifically said that no one player is larger then the team and each person is accountable for doing what they are supposed to – no freelancing. Freelancing gets you beat because people are out of position. I just don’t think they have bought completely into this scheme yet – I think some have but not all have and that’s what’s causing the arguments. MM is just standing behind Capers scheme and trying to put things into perspective. Regardless of your feelings towards MM.

  • Now, p_b, you know none of those games would count because the PIT are the best of the lot. Kinda like CLE and DET and STL don’t you think?

  • Oddball

    PB –

    Don’t get me wrong on that Steeler thing. All I’m saying is it’s the only one I would be very surprised to see us win.

    Yeah, we could lose another five games. Could lose to Detriot on Thanksgiving. But those are all games I think we *can* win without pulling the “any given Sunday” line.

  • packer_bob


    I assume you’re joking? The Cowboys, Ravens, Niners and the Bears at home are all tougher victories thant the Lions, Browns, and Rams. I would put some stock in a dominating performance against any of them in a way I wouldn’t against the sad sacks of the league, including Tampa this week.

  • Well, p_b, not fully, because any win we get will be tainted for what ever reason, and any loss will because we are such a lousy team and everybody should be fired.

  • Rocky70


    You know as well as everyone that PB will find something wrong with anyone GB defeats………. Defeat Dallas in a couple weeks & PB will downplay the win with something like, ” Dallas was nicked up for the game, so it’s not a ‘quality win’. “…….. Beat the Steelers a few weeks later: PBs response will be “Pittsburgh beat themselves, so it’s not a “quality win”……… You can’t win with PB because PB either doesn’t have a firm grasp of what the NFL is all about……. or……. he has little concern for GB to succeed as long as TT/MM are Packers………. Take your pick.

  • packer_bob

    Can you read? I just said beating the Cowboys, Ravens Niners or Bears in their house would be a quality win, at least the biggest we’ve had this season. Beating the Steelers in their house goes without saying.

    You know, it’s not really a matter of semantics guys. We’ve lost every chance we’ve had to beat somebody good this year, and beat up on all the cupcakes.

    Don’t shoot the messenger.

  • Darryl

    I would have loved to see Brett finish at GB. BUT, Aaron was a logical choice. I think MM + TT felt secure after the big contracts and gaudy 13 – 3 record. They were stupid because they didn’t seem to realize that Favre made a big different.

    Still, they made the decision for the future instead of throwing the dice one more time with Favre. Unfortunately, one more year became two and maybe three. If Favre had been easier to work with……