Flynn, Jackson shine in Seattle

The Packers got their first preseason win, if that means anything, last night and amazingly the two guys I’ve dogged the most were the keys to the win. Quarterback Matt Flynn and running back Brandon Jackson starred after another all-world performance by the Packers’ offensive starters ended after one quarter. For a guy who thinks Flynn sucks I was impressed, even though he completed only 10 of 20 passes.

Jackson, who’s claim to fame thus far is his ability to pick up the blitz as a third-down back showed that his offseason lifestyle changes might be paying off. He seems more focused as a running back and clearly has the athletic skills to play in the NFL. I think the Packers will need Jackson to start a game or two this year because I think Ryan Grant takes too many hard hits with his running style. Last year the Packers would have been done had Grant got hurt, this year maybe not.

I still think Flynn sucks but he did make some big plays and orchestrated a great two-minute drive that started at the one and should have ended with a 41-yard field goal as time expired in the first half. The drive was classic – a few short plays got them out of the hole with no urgency, clock running, then all of a sudden a few big chunks via the pass and all of sudden you have a field goal chance. I was impressed.

I hate to even bring up Aaron Rodgers. The guy is just insane. It’s like I’m shocked when he throws an incompletion. I know it is only preseason and he looked lights out last year in the preseason, but he didn’t look this good. It’s almost scary.

The regular season will mean more attention to Finley, so we’ll see then how he responds to that. The beauty is taking Finley out means more chances for Jennings and Driver and the running game.

I really think we are headed to a lot of shootouts this year. Nobody can run on us and our offense can’t be stopped. I think you can win a Super Bowl with that combination. You can’t win a Super Bowl with a defense that can’t stop the run, it has to start there.

While I would love to see Al Harris on the roster opening day I also think he could be a huge addition six weeks in if the Packers can hold their own until then. The Packers don’t play a high-powered offense until the Vikings in game seven, perfect timing or what?

The Packers will get a good test this Thursday when Peyton Manning and the Colts come to town for an ESPN game. Could be a real shootout for three quarters. The master against the student. It won’t be long until the student becomes the master. If you ask me.

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  • Scot

    I’m still not convinced about Flynn. I need to see more of his work before I can make a decision. Brandon Jackson looked flat out awesome. Once again, Sam Shields should NOT be returning punts, or kick-offs. But he does have a knack for getting interceptions. Rodgers does look scary good. I hope the defense can get its act together and stop all these passing attacks. We need a lot more pressure up front by the big 3.

    • Reid

      Sam Shields should be returning punts and kicks in the pre-season so we don’t get anyone who is going to do this in the regular season hurt. The key to the pre-season is sorting out the roster by giving guys a chance to play and show what they can do in games (weed out the “practice players”) and not get your starters hurt while giving them just enough time to get sharp.

      • Scot

        Good point Reid. I just hope they don’t put him in their in the regular season!

  • Mel E Mel

    I agree on Jackson. Some will say he did it vs 3rd string competition. He had Allen Barbre and Giacomini blocking for him,so he had 3rd team blockers. Edgar Bennett has to be commended. The knock on Jackson was always, that he hesitated too much. Now he has learned to cut and go.

  • Finley got off to a bad start because of his mouth but seems to have matured a lot. He looks awsome with the speed he has at that size. Looking at the post-game photos of his catches his height is no match when covered by a DB and he matches up even or bigger than the LBs that have tried to cover him so far. If he takes DDs place in the slot where do you put DD? Jennings never has to come inside anymore. The Fab(5) has been replaced by the Super(4)+(1). Damn I hate the thought of trading any of our WRs.
    Yeah, I’ve been very patient with Jackson; maybe he lives up to the #2 this year. Aren’t he and Harrell in the last year of they’re rookie contracts? Thats usually a pretty good incentive for less-than-expected performers.
    I still feel STs better when roster down to 53/48 and practice time is not given to 80 people.

    • Opps, their rookie contracts.

      • Rick

        I agree . Brandon looks to finally show what we were hoping to get when we drafted him.

  • Rick

    My gut says we may try to trade Jason Spitz and Donald Lee. But barring that here we go.

    Packers Roster
    53 + 8 Practice Squad + 2 PUP and 1 IR
    QB Aaron Rodgers / Matt Flynn
    RB Ryan Grant / Brandon Jackson / John Kuhn / James Stark (IR)
    FB Korey Hall / Quinn Johnson
    WR Greg Jennings / Donald Driver / James Jones / Jordy Nelson / Brett Swain / Charles Dillon (Prac. Sqd) / Chastin West (Prac. Sqd)
    TE Jermichael Finley / Donald Lee / Andrew Quarless / Tom Crabtree (Prac. Sqd)
    LT Chad Clifton / Bryan Bulaga
    LG Daryn Colledge / Allen Barbre
    C Scott Wells / Jason Spitz / Evan Dietrich-Smith
    RG Josh Sutton / TJ Lang / Nick McDonald (Prac. Squad)
    RT Mark Tauscher / Chris Campbell (Prac. Sqd)
    LDE Ryan Pickett / Justin Harrell / CJ Wilson
    DT/NT BJ Raji / Anthony Toribio
    RDE Cullen Jenkins / Mike Neal
    OLB1 Clay Matthews / Brady Poppinga / Cyril Obiozor (Prac. Sqd)
    MLB AJ Hawk / Desmond Bishop / Alex Joseph (Prac. Sqd)
    MLB Nick Barnett / Spencer Havner / Robert Francois (Prac. Squad)
    OLB2 Brandon Chillar / Brad Jones
    LCB Charles Woodsen / Pat Lee/ Sam Shields
    RCB Tramon Williams / Brandon Underwood / Al Harris (PUP)
    SS Morgan Burnett / Charlie Peprah / Will Blackmon / Atari Bigby (PUP)
    FS Nick Collins / Derrick Martin
    Special Teams
    K Mason Crosby
    P Chris Bryan
    LS Brett Goode

    • Rick

      Kuhn will still be a FB but in our jumbo run package with Quinn as lead blocker and Kuhn as the change of pace slam back is simply brutal. Especially when cold weather hits or heavy rain.

      Havner can still play both ways but is mainly around for special teams. Carlie Peprah will make the team until Atari comes back. Derrick Martin will be out the door for Harris’s return to the roster.

      TJ Lang will have to help back up Tauscher as well as back up Sitton.

    • Rick, good breakdown. G. Harrell could be prac. sqaud QB. I thought he looked as good as Flynn.

      • Rick

        We would love to have him on the squad but we only can have 8. We are going to have to keep our LBs and O line men which takes up 5 spots. With three left I believe a solid WR/PR in Dillon is my first choice to be one the active roster so he is stayong on the squad , blocking TE Crabtree, and great route runner WR in West rate higher than Graham does. Maybe West for Graham on the squad but I am not sure if we saw enough to have Graham. Zombo and Graham are the first two on the outside looking in to make it on the practice squad.

    • Scot

      Rick, looks good. Except I think they will try to get Zombo on there somewhere. Everytime the guy is in there, he makes solid plays. I just love that name. I think GB will cut ties with Harrell I know they’re trying to get some of their investment out of him, but at this point you just have to chalk it up to a loss. I think GB will only carry 4 receivers, too. That should leave room for Quinn Porter to remain.

  • monty

    Please forget Al Harris, the man is 36 and has a rebuilt knee. While I have a lot of respect for the man (I remember the game winning INT against Seatle in the playoffs thank you Al) TT needs to trade for a quality CB to start. He should have either signed one or traded already, the guys we have now are just not ready. Being overseas, I do not get to see the NFL games live, that being said, after watching the replay of the Hawks-Packer game, I have to say that our D sucks big time. They cant stop anyone. I totally agree with the guys over at packer update about our special teams, that the kickoff coverage looks like a cluster f***k. Slocum is in over his head. After watching Jon Ryan kick our [email protected] off can anyone say what a mistake it was to cut him for Derrick Frost, of course that was Mike Stock’s call and now his understudy is our ST coach. Until these two areas improve, its gonna be a long season.

    • Scot

      Well said. Special Teams looks absolutely horrible. I was sick of watching Jon Ryan pin it at the 1 yard line on us. I thought Graham Harrell looked better this time, too.

    • Rocky70

      “D sucks big time”

      You think it might have something to do with seven 2009 starters not playing? …… It’s pre-season ……… P..R..E.. – S..E..A..S..O..N ………… Why is it so difficult for some of you to understand this concept ………. You know, a time for coaches to teach, train & evaluate individual players ………. You’re right ………. It’ll be a long season on PackerNet if you continue to post such drivel.

      • Special Teams Sammy

        A long season indeed if we have to listen to Rockhead 70 spew such anger and stupidity!!

        • Rocky70

          Like your new name …… Of course I’ve liked ALL of your many names over the past few months ….. LOL.

          • Special Teams Sammy

            been sammy for over two years, was inactive in the offseason suffering football withdrawals
            but back again for some fun…Special Teams Sammy until slocum tightens it up.
            back to Sammy after that…see, i am optimistic!!!!!

    • Rick

      You are correct that the plain vanilla D with no stunts, no inside moves, just base package defense and simple OLB pressure is not effective on getting to the quarter back. However that plain vanilla defense seemed to hold up with starter Dline and basically backup LBs and back up CBs in it against the #1s of the Seahawks. Did we stop them no but we did get close to the QB and we did see what these #2s could do in a live competition.

      Special teams will be better in this next game as we start to weed out reduce the size of the squad and see who will make the contribution on special teams.

      • Rick

        Also Harris if he is recovered a man to man coverage beast on the jam off of the line. We could use his help immediately.

        If he is not recovered then we IR him or cut him.

        • Rocky70

          The absolute worse thing that will happen to Harris will be the PUP (6 weeks) ……. No way he will be cut ………. In favor of who?

          • Rick

            If he is on PUP we can be over the 53 until he is cleared then we have to cut him or cut someone to make room for him.

  • Packer’s Advocate

    That’s a pretty damn fine list. Looks about perfect, Rick!!!

    • Rick

      Thanks PA

      • Packer’s Advocate

        Just thinking………… Is it possible they go w/4 WR’s??? They can use Finley as a 5th, if needed. And go w/a extra DB?? Food for thought. That RB lineup works real nice for me.
        Either way there’s two games left yet, possible injuries, but it looks pretty darn good.

        • Rick

          The cupboard is bare on DBs though for us and there is no one of fthe street to get that we would want. Brett Swain actually some ability in a pinch to be a 5/6th DB before he was hurt. That is why he is on the roster over Dillon whom is a WR/PR.

  • Mel E Mel

    Any word on Harris practicing today, his agent is part of National Football Post. They reported that last week.

  • Larry

    Rick is great at the detail…don’t think we’ll see the 3 fullbacks on the team…no matter what you call them….CB’s a need still even without an injury which is sure to happen. Might see an O-lineman trade as injuries mount around the league. Spitz being a G/C has the most value on the market.

    • Rick

      I agree in principle about 3 FBs being a fail like last year; but with this roster and the way we have been schemeing the offense with Kuhn at RB and Q. Johnson at FB has been a very meat heavy but suprisingly quick running attack.

      i.e. The Steelers used the Bus very well, especially in goal line. Imagine a goal line offense I formation if we have Jennings, Driver and Finley and that running ram package in the cold of G Bay. What is the defense going to do??? Load up to stop the run and we will kill you on the pass. Stop the pass with a dime or quarter and we will slam it down their throat.

      We do not have an ultimate running back warrior but with the RB by commitee and the fresh legs we can put in we won’t wear out and the Defenses will.

      I would love to see a DB for depth but we are running 8 right now with a 3 acting as safeties this preseason. Unless you want Bush…. I don’t, I want Shields and his speed getting a chance instead of Bush.

  • Rocky70

    Rick – good analysis at this point but be ready to make changes.

    As bad as Breno looked Sat. night, Barbre wasn’t much better ………… Trying to get Crabtree to the PS will be nearly impossible ……. He’s already a better TE than most other teams 3rd stringers (Which is all he has to be) ………. He’ll get snatched up in a minute ………. Better find an RB for the PS (at least) ……… No way Grant – Jackson – Kuhn are the RBs for the entire 2010 season ………. D. Lee is not going anywhere ……… If Finley should go down early in the season (it happens) ……… Who’s your starter for the rest of the season? …….. Havner – Quarless – Crabtree ????? ……… Why trade away your depth for future low-round draft picks? ………. No way GB goes into 2010 without a QB on the PS (Harrell)

    Also, might as well move Bulaga ahead of Colledge at LG …….. Bulaga isn’t going to watch the games from the sideline when he’s one of the top 5 O-lineman ……..

    Hey, at least you got the starting QB correct ……… Kudos. …… LOL.

    • Rick

      Why do we need a 3rd QB on PS instead of more solid Oline depth…more solid LB or DB depth?

      I was not setting a depth chart but a roster.

      Barbre gives G/T depth, Dietrich-Evans and Spitz give C/G depth.

      I say we shop Spitz for some help or draft pick. He is valuable and is showing that he coming back fine from injury. Or we cut Barbe and keep him and add an Oline man to the active Squad (Campbell or McDonald)

      TE Lee is odd man out. Trade him and Crabtree goes on the active 53.

      They may cut Toribio at NT and keep Crabtree but 4 TEs on the active seems excessive

  • Rocky70

    Come on Rick …….

    You’re showing your affinity for ‘fantasy football’ again …….. If the unthinkable should happen & AR goes down (even for a game or two) ….. Flynn is then the starter while AR is down …….. Who’s the back-up? …….. You don’t pull someone in off the street & teach him MM’s offense in a few days ………

    D. Lee is the only TE with starting experience ………. Odd man out .???? ……… You might get a 5th or a 6th for him ………. The TE position is a strong point because of Finley & Lee, not the other three ………..

    If Spitz or Colledge can bring in an OLB for added depth ……… Might be worth a shot ………. But no way does GB trade away their depth anywhere for future low-round draft picks.

    GB is the real thing in 2010 ………. This isn’t a rebuilding team anymore with a need to stockpile future draft picks …… You must be thinking of the Lions, Bears, Chiefs, etc.

    Rick – you need to get out your #2 pencil & a clean piece of paper & start over …… All the luck to you.

  • Arch

    Yes, GB will have a QB on PS. It may be Harrell or it may be a rookie they like better.

    However, I like most of Rick’s other ideas. Granted, there is a risk to cutting Donald Lee and keeping Crabtree but I suspect Quarless and Havner could be at least as productive as Lee.

    If all the young RBs are injured, Rick’s idea of keeping 2 RB and 3 FB, with Kuhn playing both positions is an excellent idea that I believe the Packers are seriously considering (Kuhn played HB in tonight’s practice). However, if one of the RBs emerges healthy, we keep 3, and if we keep 3 TEs as I suspect we will, 3 FBs seems impossible, but you never know since they all play ST.

    Barbre and Giaco will be cut. Spitz, EDS or Colledge will be traded.

    • Rick

      Now you are thinking like a GM Arch. We may not agree with you or you with me but you see how the fun brain juices get flowing. It makes the preseason actually worth watching for me.

  • Monty

    A defense is only as strong as its weakest link. Watching the backups play Seattle showed me just how weak our links are. While the Packer defensive starters have yet to play much, if any of them are injured, what we saw against Seattle is who will play. Im sorry but to this point the defense has looked bad at best and lets not even get to ST’s. The fact is McCarthy should have upgraded the ST coach during the off season, but he didnt, just like when Mike Stock recommended Derrick Frost over Jon Ryan. Did you see the job Ryan did against us on Saturday? Think the two guys we have now are as good? Fact is TT and MM have made some mistakes, TT should have traded for a starting corner or drafted one or something. Williams is a good nickel back at best. So do not be surprised this season when ST continues to put the offense in a hole, or that the defense plays like it did last year against Arizona Minn. and Pitt. We do not have a Pass Rush period, Mathews is it period. I am hoping they all prove me wrong and go 16-0 and win the SB, but after what I saw of the defense and ST last Saturday, it could be a long season!!!

    • Monty, you have to remember it’s pre-season. I liked them trying an elephant formation run game. It wasn’t that long ago we had success with K. Barry, a tackle playing TE, that gave the run game a boost.

      • Steve Cheez

        There was nothing better than when everybody from the other coaches to the last guy on their practice squad knew we were going to run it up the gut and there still wasn’t a darn thing they could do to stop us.
        I get a woody every time I think about it.

        • Reid

          Steve – TMI.

        • Rick

          HA HA That is disturbing but funny Steve

  • Larry

    TT generally errs to the side of youth…so I tend to agree with Rick that a veteran will be released/traded in favor of a developing player. Spitz/College/Lee or even Havner are fair game. Buffalo is short TE’s so look for them to watch our waiver wire or PS. They seem to like our players..(Brohm,Meredith).

    As the team improves this gets much tougher. Kudos to Rick for providing fodder..better than hearing about Harrells back AGAIN!

    PUP is definitely in play for Bigby/Stark/maybe Harris. That gives TT 6 weeks to assess the team and the early season injuries. I think we may see A. Green back…catches the ball well and knows the offense. As much burst as Kuhn!

  • Rick

    Good call Larry on the Bills. I really had a limited idea on whom a trade partner might be. An idea might be to package player or two for Marshawn Lynch now that they have CJ Spiller. That would add a strong RB into our mix. I do not know if there is any LB or DB talent we could go after on their roster. Maybe a decent draft pick is an option.

    • I would love Lynch at RB, also a good return guy.

      • Rocky70

        Next you’ll be calling for GB to pick up Larry Johnson (once he’s cut by the Redskins) or maybe Willie Parker ………. Any name with a little familiarity will do, right?

  • Rick

    Did you guys read this in the site?

    “Bush lost his spots on the kickoff coverage team and the kickoff return team. Bush, who had three of the Packers’ 30 accepted special teams penalties last season, had two penalties playing cornerback on defense in Saturday’s preseason game at Seattle.

    Rookie Sam Shields replaced Bush on the kickoff coverage team, while Derrick Martin took Bush’s spot on kickoff return.

    The move may be sign that Shields, the undrafted rookie, could be taking away Bush’s roster spot. Shields also was on the No. 1 punt return team, lining up as an outside blocker. Previously, Shields had also been a gunner on the No. 1 punt team, although that unit didn’t get any reps on Monday. The speedy Shields failed as a returner — dropping kick after kick — but he’s quickly showing that his speed is an asset in other areas of special teams. He also has enough skills at cornerback that he’s worth developing there, too.

    “Sam’s earned it,” Packers coach Mike McCarthy said. “He’s definitely getting some time with the 1s, and we do want to get closer to what we feel are going to be the guys you’re playing with. There is some projection, and you want to get more information on the newer guys.”

    In another sign that the Packers are unwilling to accept the status quo on special teams, first-year tight end Tom Crabtree continued to get work with some No. 1 units — the kickoff return team and the punt return team. Crabtree appears to be making a legitimate run at a roster spot, but at whose expense is unclear. The Packers have a surplus at tight end, although former starting tight end Donald Lee was replaced on the kickoff team by cornerback Brandon Underwood.”

    • Rick, how much money would we save by cutting Bush and keeping Shields.

      • Rick

        At least my NFL package cost…LOL

        Not sure, from memory I believe Bush in second year of his two year deal and is at 1.5Million for 2010 and Shields making the team would be rookie minimum at around $380K.

  • Packer’s Advocate

    Haven’t seen the game yet but it sounds as if my guy Barbre isn’t doing too hot. Thought he looked decent last year in run blocking and thought a move to the inside would help his pass blocking, but maybe, jut maybe he deosn’t make it afterall????

    • Rick

      It is always a chance but I think we will keep him for him for the multi position depth he offers.

  • Larry

    Oddly enough Buffalo is strong in the DB area. Lynch has been rumored to be available although not healthy at the moment.

    • Rick

      Who is on the Bills at DB we could pick off?

  • Mel e Mel

    Lynch is interesting but I would prefer his teamate, Fred Jackson. Fred is worker who carries no baggage. Unlike Lynch, who is a grade A hoodlum.

  • Rick

    It is not like we have had an issue with our players getting in to purple drank problems or pay to play women issues…. oh wait

    • Rocky70

      The questionable behavior of both Underwood & Jolly surfaced after the fact ……… It is already known that Lynch is a Grade-A pain in the ass as a person & teammate ………. He’s a major under-achiever who has yet to figure out that the NFL requires committment & hard-work to flourish.

      • Rick

        He is also playing for one of the worst franchises in the NFL. Tough to work hard when the team, coaches and owner suck. Look at the players that flourished away from the Raiders.

        • Rocky70

          You’ve got to be kidding ……….. Blame a ‘team’ for what an individual player does or doesn’t do ……….. Typical of our society today, someone is to blame, but not me. ……. It’s called individual responsibility ……….. Lynch doesn’t have it.

          • Steve Cheez

            Thanks for the dose of sanity, Rock.

          • Rick

            I don’t blame the team. I did not ask for Cromar “Can’t name all my kids” te.

            Lnych is a beast that has issues. Woodsen was a beast that had issues.
            Moss was a beast that had issues. I am saying that if the organization feels the risk reward is right and the personnel people we trust say he will be okay then getting him would help the team. I have heard that he is insulant and a douche. What have you heard?

  • Rick

    Newhouse may stick, I figured he was dead man walking but he is making strides. He might be the man kick Barbre out the door
    “There are no awards given out in training camp, but if there was one for most improved, it might go to rookie offensive lineman Marshall Newhouse.

    The fifth-round pick from TCU looked lost early in camp. His struggles were evident in the one-on-one pass blocking drills.

    Three and a half weeks later, Newhouse looks like an old pro, especially when he’s playing his more natural left tackle spot. Newhouse won both reps today in the one-on-one drill against defensive end Ronald Talley and has put himself very much into the mix for a roster spot perhaps ahead of veterans like Breno Giacomini and Allen Barbre. Early in camp, Newhouse looked like practice squad material, at best.

    “I think he’s more comfortable outside,” Packers offensive coordinator Joe Philbin said. “Inside was a good idea maybe, but I’m not sure that’s a great fit naturally for him. I think he’s making progress. I don’t think there’s any doubt about that.”

    • Rocky70

      You had him cut less than 24 hours ago (Not even on the PS) …………. Now he’s a keeper? ……….. Keep your erasure handy ……….. You’ve got many more changes to make.

      • Rick

        I had him cut from the practice squad based on performance to date. However because of the report I said.

        “Newhouse may stick, I figured he was dead man walking but he is making strides.”

        If he has been showing more then he may bump McDonald from the PRACTICE SQUAD. Not the game day roster but the PRACTICE SQUAD. That would signal Barbre to be cut from the regular roster.

        You are such a douche sometimes. I think that the fact we are talking Packer football and who is looking to make the team is probably the most fun we have had on the site since dealing with playoff defeat. And you are just nasty and annoying about it. I completely agree that what I think the team will do can be wrong…but the ideas of why we think the team will do something is a peak behind the curtain and fun to talk about until the games count.

        I thought Arch earlier posted a good reason for Harrel on PS and what he would do with the team with the O line. It is not what I think but I agree he had merits.

        You have not contributed much to this convesation other then negativity. If you want to draw up and post your own roster I would love to see it. I may disagree but I would not be a dick about it either.

        • Rick

          Or maybe Newouse is the future LT of the Packers for the next 10 years and was just slow to start.

          Thats life in the NFL…

    • Regardless; our picks now don’t mean squat anyway. Can you imagine Newhouse at LT and Buluga at RG?

      • Rick

        Do you mean as backups?
        If Newhouse makes the team I figure PS for this year and about another year on active roster to develop and we can see what he can do in year 3.

        Baluga is supposed to be the LT of the future. Looking at the roster I think our weakness in the future is RT. I would really love to see Newhouse try the RT spot and see if can work on that side of the line. If he does not work out, boom cut him. But if he is developing keep him and then we would be doing what the Bengals did and develop O line talent using the practice squad and now look at their dominate O line.

        • Nah, I think Lang is the RT of the future and Buluga is a future All-Pro guard and not necessisarily (?) an All-Pro tackle. Newhouse is a natural LT with long arms and athletic ability. He needs some seasoning on the speed of the game. No I don’t look for that this year, but I would not be surprised to see Buluga inside whether Colledge stays or not, and that could happen this year.

          • Rick

            If you tell me the future is
            LT Newhouse
            LG Baluga
            C Wells
            RG Sitton
            RT Lang

            I guess I am okay but I have a tough time drafting a first round Tackle to play Guard

          • Yeah, thats the way I see it. Wouldn’t be surprised to Buluga slide out to LT though in a few years or sooner if Newhouse doesn.t pan out. Oops, posted this in the wrong place….

  • roy jamison

    Could Shields be better than Bush? Is Ed “Too Tall” Jones really too tall?

    • Rick

      🙂 Good one

  • Mel E Mel

    At some point TT and MM have to figure that Breno and Babre can only get the qb killed.
    They both have had fair shakes. Jarrett Bush nuff said. Justin Harrell sticks because the numbers game at Dline (only 3 real DEs on the roster, Pickett is an NT playing DE)
    A major pet peeve I have vs MM is trying fit square pegs into round holes case in point, trying to get QJ to be a pass catcher I believe we have enough talent in the skill positions without passing to Fullbacks.

    • Reid

      I’m with you on that Mel, when are we going to stop drafting tackles and trying to make them into guards? How about drafting a really good guard and let him play guard and a really good tackle and let him play tackle?

      • Re above, I think we have done half of the left side make-over.

    • Rick

      HERE HERE Mel.

      Very good points

  • Rick

    Just how bad is O line coach Campen??

    Taken from Thumbs Up and Thumbs Down article
    from JS online

    “If the Packers keep nine offensive linemen for the 10th time in the last 11 years, the final berth is looking more and more as a contest between rookie Marshall Newhouse and Breno Giacomini. That assumes T-G Allen Barbre is gone and that the loser at backup center between Jason Spitz and Evan Dietrich-Smith is gone as well. Giacomini is a one-position player (RT) and has given up two sacks in two games. Drafted in the same round (fifth) as Giacomini, Newhouse has come on in the last week. That’s when the coaches stopped playing Newhouse at LG and put him exclusively at LT, his natural position. Newhouse is light on his feet and has long arms (34 inches). “He uses his hands real well,” OL coach James Campen said. “He might have the longest length of anyone we have. Each week he’s gotten better and better. He overanalyzes a little bit. Now he’s just doing his thing.”

    • Rick

      So let me get this straight. As Mel e Mel said in a post or two above. If you actually draft players to play in positions they know they play BETTER then when you switch them up all the time. Well suprise suprise coach!!

      So guys and gals – My concern is great, we have a guy developing as a LT in Newhouse, but what about Bulaga??
      Is he a LG for us with 1st round LT money spent or is he a LT?? Heck is he a RT??

      I think this O line coach Campen is most of the problem on the line. He does not know what the hack he is doing with the personnel.

      So you drafted a LT in the 1st round and you drafted a LT from a small school in the 5th.
      A) Play the first rounder in a variety of positions just to try and get him on the field instead of developing him for the job you drafted him for.

      B) Play your backups in there wrongs spots and then realize that a guy that played 4 years as LT might do better at LT then at Guard becase he is used to the job.

      This guy was written off by me because he stunk in one on ones in camp and practices but did okay in the Seahawks game against #2s and #3s as LG- no sacks given up. Now they move him back to LT and he beat a 3rd string DE on our team in one on ones and seems to get in Pass blocking but is rough in run blocking during #2s practice. He is not a starter right now but maybe we can groom him.

      But why was he playing out position for all of camp and why are you playing Baluga out of position??

      • Rocky70

        Come on Rick

        As a player, your success in college does not directly translate to the NFL …….. The NFL is an elite level of play not seen at most college games …….. This might explain why there are so many 1st round busts in the NFL ……….

        Another point …….. Do you honestly believe that Campen is calling all the shots concerning the OL? ……… Last I knew, MM is the HC & plays a pretty pivotal role in everything.

        • Rick

          Of course that is true Rocky. Expectations can be to high for the player to make the “leap” to the NFL game. But poor caoching and poor team situations can do in players as well. If Kampman had been brought in to be a 3-4 OLB instead of a 4-3 DE he may not have made the team. Instead he worked himself to a mutli pro bowler and we changed D systems and he was odd man out.

          This O line situation is Campan’s spot and his call on the lineman. MM can give him the players but Campen has to work with them to get the best out of them individually and try to set the the whole line up to succeed.

          We have had many many questionable O line players that have reportedly looked good in practice but no luck in games. I think we have Campen to thank

      • I think Hutch and several others make LT money; so what, any employee is worth what you pay them – or are we now going to say TT pays too much?

        • Rick

          Hutch is a proven multi pro bowl player.

          Bulaga is a rookie that out earn most linemen with almost 9 million guaranteed and 15 million total and I have yet to see him play a real game yet. TT payed the market expectation for a rookie. A rookie LT taken in the late first round.

          Unless the Packers think he can not get it done at Tackle and they want him to go inside, we are missing out on training a solid back up to Clifton. A great player that misses about 6 games a year. I am sure not wanting a guy that was looking to maybe not make the team in Newhouse to go out there against the DEs in the NFC north. Jared Allen will kill em.

  • Rocky70

    There’s not a team in the NFL that’s 9 or 10 deep on the OL ……… All NFL teams have young projects who make the roster based on potential …….. In many cases, they make the final 53 because they are still an unknown (Usually only 1 TC or PS experience) compared to their roster competition whose skills or lack of skills are well known by the coaching staff …….. Both Barbre & Breno are probably done in favor of Newhouse and/or EDS ………. Two or 3 years from now, maybe Newhouse & EDS get bumped in favor of 2 other O-Linemen with potential.

    I’m not going to defend Slocum because I’m not aware of his coaching aptitude or abilities (this is true for most if not all fans whether they know it or not) but if he is as inept as some fans say, then there are many, many inept O-Line coaches in the NFL …….. There are not many NFL teams that do not have OL problems ………. Most fans rate a coach based on results & ignore the fact that better players produce better results ……… (Enter Bulaga in Round 1)

    IE, Capers was a hell of a DC in 2009 except in 5 regular season games & he was absolutely terrible in the playoff loss to the Cards ………. GB must need a new & more capable DC.

    • Rocky70

      ” I’m not going to defend Slocum ” ………. Make that Campen instead of Slocum ……….

  • So now that the 53 roster looks pretty good, its the coaching problem. What problem, we’re a playoff caliber team and roster now. I think the coaching staff has done pretty good on a rebuilding job. A head job on the field can ruin a coaching career thats for sure. You think its going to get better with the 18/2 senario? Add the fact that they’re talking 90 plus on the camp roster and its chaos as I see it. If its a coach problem its from an evaluation standpoint and it could get a hell of a lot worse pretty soon. You don’t have enough time to teach this many players, they’ve either got it or not. Thank God we have a veteran roster now albeit with a couple of headaches.

    • Rick

      I think we agree that we have the quality players in most positions to be an excellent football team. MM’s head coaching mistakes and poor game calling seem to be gone and he has grown to be a pretty solid head coach. But his assts, have the grown.

      Look at our issues with the Defense and what led to us bringing in Capers and he enthusiastic asst coaches.
      Look what they were able to do, and then I look at the garbage heap that was the Oline last year until Clifton and Tauscher were back together and healthy enough to start. Where were these second and third year developing players Campen was in charge of?

      I believe that unless this line suddenly goes pro bowl on us we need to purge Campen and consider another O line coach like a Harry Heistand, or someone that was the hot name for awhile but is back in the college ranks, to come in here. Some one hungry and with a good history and eye for who gets it who does not.

      I do hope Campen and the Oline prove me wrong and help hold up the Lambardy Trophy in Feb.

  • Mel E Mel

    I think Campen is middle of the road. Look at what he has had to work with “Tony Moll, Barbre, Breno” Then they draft a blue chip LT and SURPRISE,SURPISE he can actually play. I also believe the Denver zone blocking cult, have played a roll in the bad play of the Oline. MM himself cited Denver in one of his initial press conferences. Denver had Pro Bowler Davis,HOF LT Gary Zimmerman as well as Clinton Portis. The attitude of just “plug a guy into the system’ is pure garbage. You need big time players, and good role players. TT hadnt invested high draft choices into the Oline, until TJLang. (Can u imagine last year without Lang??) Now Newhouse, Bulaga you have 3 young developing lineman. I believe the Packer organization was spoiled with 15 yrs of injury free QB play. They will never admit this, but that simply human nature. I believe they have learned the lessons, and hopefully we can move forward.

  • Special Teams Sammy

    O.K., I really get nervous when Slocum or Sodumb says that Jared Bush is one of the most talented special teams players the Packers have. It takes two hands to count the number of games his idiotic mistakes could have cost us a win.

  • jonnyfootballhero

    Any predictions for the season? I’m not as high on the team as a lot of people are. I think the special teams are a mess, no pass rush, and I’m worried about the nickle and dime situations. However, I love our Offense and think the Pack will score a lot of points but I feel that there will be a lot of shoot-outs this year. I think the Cardinals and the Steelers laid out the blue-prints on how to beat the Packers last year. My prediction is 9-7 and maybe a wild-card. I really hope I’m wrong and that they blow my prediction away. How do you guys feel the team will do this year, including a few injuries?

    • Rocky70

      Pre-season is not the time to decide if a team has corrected deficiencies ……… Pre-season is for evaluating & teaching ………. No one will know if GBs STs are improved or if GB can improve their pass rush until the games actually count …………. Last year at this time many pundits said GB’s biggest issue would be stopping the run ……….. Guess what?

      My prediction is still the same it has been for months ——— 12-4 & winning the North Division with the Bears 9-7, Vikes 8-8 & the Lions finishing at 6-10 ………..

      The best part of season 2010 (along with GB’s success) will be watching the Vikes self-destruct & everyone running for cover including “Lord Faver”.

      • Rick

        I hope that is true. But I will take a Packer’s Super Bowl victory and drop both Vikings games. I

  • I_Luv_Brats

    I’m thinking the Packers will go 11-5 or 12-4. With them winning the division. They’ll split the series with the Vikings.

  • Steve Cheez

    Is Mason Crosby going to lead the special teams in tackles this year?

  • Rick

    First to you Rocky. Thank you. I complained earlier about negativity but your last posst and comments have been insiteful.

    Second, I look to the past 3 seasons to see Campen’s player development.
    Wells, Spitz, Moll and Colledge are his babies. Show me good development. Sitton is the only Lineman we have not whined about that I can think of and he was plugged into RG and made untouchable to position change. Moll is not even on our team any more.

    Remember Campen is here to help teach the ZBS system to our line. I am unsure of the damage he has caused by being a poor position coach. He seems to be a solid citizen and a decent man from what google shows, but he is maybe he is a better assistant

  • Rick

    but maybe he is just better as an assistant coach.

    Man I need my coffee this morning. 🙂

  • Lets leave the choice of assistants to the HC. If the team doesn’t win he’ll get blamed for it anyway. Same with TT; I think he has brought in pretty good talent and kept the usable from the prior mgmt. Seems several here think we’re still rebuilding, I don’t think so. I think we’re tweeking and adding one or two starters a year. I think our future OTs are in the 53 mix, and for that matter I think the whole OL of the future is on board. It can only get better. Lets not forget what happened last year and what they accomplished. We’ll still need to stay healthy as any team does, we’ll have different players in different spots on D to improve the pass rush. Don’t forget there are two ways to get a sack: rush in not the only way – there’s containment and coverage too.
    Needless I’m back in my “happy” mood again and can’t wait to get this thing started for real.

  • Rick

    True true. If we stay healthy like we did with Brett’s last year here we may just take this whole enchilada. 🙂

    • Yep, could very well happen!!! After tonights show tho not going to sneak anybody on the PS. Maybe, finally, we have some real trade bait for a change. TT could well be in the catbird seat. We’ll see how the reserves look next week. Big difference when you put in a second or third string guy in with the ones, rather than a whole set of second or third stringers or a mix thereof.

      • Rick

        What a fun game to watch. We had a special teams that showed up to play and a punt that had almost a 5 second hang time we killed the returner and TD.

        Time to head to bed

        • Your right, I played the whole game and I’m tired from running up and down that whole field tonight.

          • Rick

            More like the running the living room for me. If I could I would still play. Was great as a safety and then I just plain got hurt. Love the game but the body said no more, so Daddy duty here I came. And many years later still love the game but I love the kids more.