Ugly, but I’ll take it just the same

The Green Bay Packers picked up their first division win yesterday and in doing so moved back into a tie for first place in the NFC North. The Packers’ 20th straight win over Detroit in Wisconsin was anything but easy but like the Bears last week, the Packers won’t be turning down any wins anytime soon.

At 3-1 the Packers are where I thought they would be, I just had them losing at Philly and winning in Chicago, oh well, the win at Philly may turn out to be bigger than the loss in Chicago.

The Detroit Lions may be 0-4 but they are only about half-dozen plays away from being 3-1, for sure an official’s call away from 1-3. The Lions are on the right track and when you are constantly asked about losing 19 straight games to an opponent like the Lions have in Wisconsin, you get sick of it and want to do your best to put an end to it. The Lions damn near did just that.

The Packers needed to gut out a crucial time-killing drive after a Lions punt with 6:32 left and they did just that. John Kuhn of all people led the way and the Lions never touched the ball again. I don’t think the Packers will all of sudden turn into a grind-out offense, but the players and coaches said all week, “we can run the ball if we have to,” well, they had to and they did.

I know it was only the Lions but the only strength the Lions have is their defensive line and the Packers took it to them on that final drive. Prior to that the Packers didn’t really try to run the ball again, much like last week in Chicago, and Aaron Rodgers had three first-half touchdown passes as a result. Very questionable play-calling in the second half led to the Packers doing absolutely nothing on offense until that final drive.

Charles Woodson and the defense saved the day by not allowing the Lions to score a TD in the second half. Some big turnovers and stops were just enough to get the job done, but that defense is going to need it’s day off tomorrow, they must be one tired group.

Rodgers didn’t appear to be too pleased with the play-calling either. I mean, come on, what happend to the West Coast Offense? This trying to run on third-and-two or throwing late over the deep middle on first down when you should be trying to run the clock and give your defense a rest is mind-boggling.

Rodgers is right, you have to do what you do best and not try to be something you aren’t. Right now the Packers are a passing offense that should be spreading it out. The running game will evolve over time. It better or the Packers will be in trouble come December and bad weather, but for now, take advantage of good weather, spread it out and light it up.

Where was the little dump off to a wide open Brandon Jackson or the unstoppable buttonhook to Donald Driver? Do what you do best. Joh Kuhn is not Jim Taylor, don’t try to make him be, although did do a pretty good imitation on that last drive.  Throwing the ball is what the Packers do, they should be more worried about doing that better than trying to establish a running game right now.

The Washington Redskins will be a good test for the Packers’ on both sides of the ball. But more on the Skins later, we have to enjoy this one for a day or two.

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  • jimmyus333333

    Chuck Cecil is my hero.

    • Rick

      He was just saying to the ref ” Your Number 1″ with the wrong finger… LOL

  • Scot

    The only reason I can come up with why TT hasn’t traded for Lynch, or someone else, is that he’s biding his time until Stark comes off the PUP list. That’s a big risk, in my opinion. Again, why aren’t they using Nance if they’re so high on him? If you aren’t going to use him, then cut him and get someone you will. Ted is so afraid of putting himself out there. In my opinion, he’s doing that more now by NOT trading for Lynch, or someone else. I’m curious to see what they’re going to do for replacing Burnett now. Such a shame. The kid was doing good. Bigby, I pray, will come in and help. Maybe when Harris gets back they could shuffle Woodson to safety.

    • I agree, Nance coming off the ATL (?) PS should have known all our audibles and started the day he came in.

      • Scot

        Why did they stop giving him a few snaps a game?

  • Rick

    Eagles contacted the Bills for Lynch.

  • mel e mel

    I find solace in the fact that the rest of the division is a hot mess. MM is losing grip on reality, getting shut out by Detroit for more than a half is disgraceful. The depleted D held detroit to Fgs. As wacky as I believe MM is he is still better than Chilly, Lovie and Schwartz aka the three stooges. This loyalty to Jackson and Kuhn is disrespectful to the team and the fans.
    Joe Whitt has taken to falsehoods. Saying “Underwood has to earn his way back”??? Excuse me ? So that means when Bigby can come back he will have to earn his way back?? This is why Rodgers now has to come out publicly. Jordy tries to give the game away but he will keep his job he is earning it right?

    • I agree, loyalty is disrespectful.

  • Z Man

    Yes, the Packers won ugly – but I’ll say it again. The run game is a joke – Lions just waiting for AR to pass. Defense sucked also – Couldn’t stop Lions on 3rd down and gave up way to many passing yards. TT get a grip and take a risk – you need to pick up a qualaity back. What good is a 2nd round pick next year if picking up an RB now could get you deep in the playoffs this year? GB should beat Wahington this week as Skins didn’t look that great beating Eagles – unless there is a repeat of this week.

    • I agree, defense sucked, they let DET have all those FGs in the 4th.

  • jimmyus333333

    I’m now officially rejecting any mid-season move TT would make to get Lynch or any other running back.

    There are too many holes in our team due to draft day whiffs and ineffective offseason personnel decisions to have him mortgage our future and make up with what could very well become an 8-8/non-playoff season.

    We keep our team, and let the new GM have a full complement of draft picks and players going into next year.

    The last thing I want to see is a Dan Devine/John Hadl type trade in a desperate attempt for TT to keep his job.

    • Rick

      The baby just went out with the bathwater there jimmy.

    • I agree, the ’09 and ’10 drafts were horrible.

  • Doug R

    So John Schneider and the Seahawks grabbed Marshawn Lynch for a 2011 4th and conditional pick. Hmmmmm……

  • Larry

    The game this week (Washington) is going to be a real test. A good QB going against a somewhat depleted secondary. Physical defense with decent pass rushers. Although inconsistent so far they should be pumped coming off a big win on the road.

    We’ll need a semblence of a running game to keep them off balance or Rogers will see both a steady blitz and nickle or dime all game. MM needs to run some screens and slants. Findley should have an edge over smaller DB’s. I’d like to say we have a coaching advantage but I don’t think its the case.

  • Larry

    Wow…fourth and conditional (prob a 5 or 6 or 7) depending on plays or yards. Nice deal for Seattle…seems we value our next year late round picks over a run game this year. If this trade is true..(I don’t doubt it is) then this is a SAD day. Don’t forget the loss of Kampy would get us an extra 4th or 5th in 2011. Essentially Lynch for a 5 or 6 or 7…BAD CHOICE FOR GB.

    • Rick

      2011 4th and conditional, based on team performance, based on past deals 5th through 1st if the Seahawks win a SB.

      Average value = 3rd round in 2012

    • I would be happy to trade a low 1st round pick to be guaranteed a SB victory.

  • Jay


    Seattle swipes Marshawn Lynch from the Bills
    by Mike Florio, October 5, 2010 2:25 PM ET

    So much for the Buffalo Bills driving a hard bargain when it comes to a possible trade of running back Marshawn Lynch. Jay Glazer of FOX reports that the Seahawks have finagled Lynch from the Bills for a fourth-round pick in 2011 and a conditional pick in 2012.

    As recently as Monday, the prevailing word was that, even though Lynch wanted out, the Bills wouldn’t be trading him.

    Now they have. And the 2-2 Seahawks have picked up a potentially powerful weapon for their run at the NFC West crown.

    Meanwhile, the Packers continue to have noone to run the ball. As we pointed out in this week’s power rankings, the pass-heavy attack should be working really well when the weather turns at Lambeau Field.

  • Jay


    I agree with you 100%. What a great deal for Seattle – what a sad deal for Green Bay. In the article I posted above, it even mentions Green Bay by saying, “Meanwhile, the Packers continue to have no one to run the ball.”

    Is TT maybe thinking about Deangelo Williams of Carolina, or Steve Slaton of Houston, or maybe Brandon Jacobs of NY Giants? I seriously doubt it.

    Or is he waiting on draft pick Starks to start playing mid season? And where is this Nance kid? I realize that it takes a while to learn the offense, but the Packers running game needs help now – not mid season!

    • Slayton and Jacobs aren’t any good.

  • Scot

    Way to lose Lynch, Ted. Playing hardball really showed ’em, eh?

  • Rick

    Nance had better be the next everydown RB for the Packers this year. Starks won’t be in ready shape until week 8 or 9.

    • Rick

      So we play with what we have. I do not see TT getting Slaton and I do not think his running style works with our O line.

      Lynch was a possibly great RB to aquire. He was not super great or they would not have drafted CJ Spillar. He added a credible running threat and was competent if nothing else.

      Yes he is one player conduct issue away from a 1 year suspension and we traditionally do not like that kind of player on the team.

      So either Nance is really showing something in practice to help be an everydown back or MM is planning on using Kuhn as an Alstott and have an 03 Gruden style West Coast offense with slam backs to punish interior D linemen and compensate for an O line based on pass protect.

    • You might be right, Rick; As I recall the old SF West Coast was pretty much just Craig back there and if I remember correctly he caught more yds than he ran for.

  • Jay

    I will admit that I have been on the “trade for Marshawn Lynch” bandwagon for the last couple of weeks. But I am going to try, and I am really trying hard, to give TT the benefit of the doubt.

    Maybe this is the reason that TT passed on the trade – Lynch was suspended for three games by the NFL for violating the personal conduct policy and he is one violation away from a long term suspension – and with the Jolly situation, it is possible that TT did not want to touch him.

    Don’t get me wrong, I am by no means trying to defend TT – just thought I would throw this possible reason into the discussion.

    By the way, with Seattle getting Lynch, they have just released Julius Jones. Does he have any left in the tank? Would he be a fit for the Packers? Would he be an upgrade for the Packers running game?

    • Skyler


      I agree with a lot of your posting. I personnel would give him the benefit of the doubt in his first three years, but not in year number five. If TT was a super picker of talent in the draft, then stop looking so hard at FA and/or trades, but he is not. Bottom line … Seattle improved their Football team. The Packers are sitting back and expecting a late round rookie draft pick to save the day. Also, Nance went to ASU and I can tell anyone that he is not a 20+ carrying type RB.

  • Jay

    Interesting article by Greg Bedard of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

    By Greg A. Bedard of the Journal Sentinel
    Oct. 5, 2010 1:36 p.m.

    Green Bay – Any thoughts of the Packers trading for Buffalo Bills running back Marshawn Lynch are gone and a player Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers, a college teammate of Lynch’s, advocated the team getting. Interesting that the team to acquire Lynch was the Seahawks. The general manager under coach Pete Carroll is former long-time Thompson aide John Schneider.

    With the Packers, part of Schneider’s duties was to find and work on potential trades. He would work on deals, similar to the Lynch trade, and then submit them to Thompson. Thompson often passed. It was a source of frustration for Schneider, according to a column by Bob McGinn earlier this season. Here’s a snippet:

    “Schneider remained the same well-compensated employee whether his recommendations were acted upon or not. But, as with most walks of life, when a lot of work basically never reaches fruition, a level of disappointment is sure to follow.”

    Will this be the non-trade that keeps the Packers from being legitimate Super Bowl contenders? I’m sure many of you will have an opinion, but it’s impossible to know for sure until the end of the season. In my opinion, the Packers can still win the Super Bowl with what they have at running back.

    The reason? In Mike McCarthy’s offense system, which is not unlike other high-powered and pass-heavy attacks in Indianapolis, New Orleans and Arizona (with Kurt Warner) — running the football in the traditional sense is not a big part of the offense. And in this day and age, it’s hard to disagree with that approach.

    So I submit to you that what the Packers are banking on is some run mixed into McCarthy’s high-powered passing offense and the decision-making of Aaron Rodgers will be what wins a title, not how great their running game is. They’re not the only team that has gone far believing that.

    I’m not saying the Packers were right to not acquire Lynch — I personally think it was worth the risk — but to say the Packers are doomed or Thompson doesn’t know what he’s doing because they didn’t get Lynch is just reactionary and wrong. At least until we see how the season plays out.

  • packer_bob

    I thought I’d jump on here as I just heard on Chicago sports radio that Lynch went to Seattle for 2 picks, but they didn’t say what they were.

    Now that I know, I am disappointed. That doesn’t seem like a lot to give up to help a sick running game now, especially if Rodgers was in favor of the move. Interesting indeed that Schneider pulled it off for Seattle, and interesting quote from an article in Jay’s post about Schneider maybe being frustrated with TT’s constant inaction in the past.

    I was convinced several times in the 4th quarter that we were going to lose, but I agree with Al that a win is a win and we’ll take it and move on. We did pound the rock when we needed to to close out the game. Maybe TT knows something we don’t–maybe it was Lynch’s off field issues. But if we continue to flounder in the run game, and Lynch contributes to Seattle, it won’t be good.

    • jonnyfootballhero

      I’m not at all surprised that TT didn’t pull the trigger on Lynch. It made perfect sense to help the team now and it wouldn’t have cost the team a lot in the future. It’s just not what TT does. Also, I’m not suprpised that TT didn’t do it even though Rodgers was for it. A couple of years ago a certain QB lobbied for a certain high profile WR who could have been acquired for a 4th round pick.
      It’s hard for me to stand behind TT when he continually lets talent go by the wayside to save his precious draft picks. This team is no longer rebuilding. It has a lot of talent, but it could use more in a few key areas that could be acquired by making some trades. I know some of you have said that we don’t know what’s going on behind closed doors and that it takes two to make a trade happen. Well I think that what Schneider said about TT’s constant inaction of making trades speaks volumes.

      • Scot

        And what about TT not bringing in Tony Gonzales when he had the chance. Could you imagine JF and him paired up? What would a D do facing that?

      • The answer to both of your questions, Scot is that there would be no JF in GB if he had gotten TG.

    • No sense complaining about TT and trades or free agents. He’s not likely to do them and we all know that going in. On the plus side a ST coordinator has just become available from Miami (Bonamego) and we’d really like to get the worst one so let’s start speculating about him instead of an RB who isn’t coming.

  • Skyler

    By the end of the season, Packer nation will fully understand the overall contributions TT has made to this program after 6 years. Not much….. He is not in the same league as Wolf. It’s not like Sherman give TT a program with little talent. Sherman had his issues as GM, but does TT have more money due to stadium expansion and overall health of the NFL to date?

    • Skyler, I’m angry but even though TT isn’t Wolf, who is. He’s good to average and all I can think is we might get someone worse. We’re going to have that low 4th rounder next year and maybe TT can turn that into some more depth?

      • Heck, I forgot. There might be a labor problem next year and we wont get that 4th rounder after all.

  • Oddball

    I guess it’s not shocking. I have to hope he saw something in Lynch that he really didn’t want on his team. From the outside, getting a 24 year old RB with proven thousand yard potential for second day draft picks sure looked like a good deal.

    At the moment, I’m shaking my head a bit, but winning will fix that very quickly.

  • Sammy

    Why pass up a proven running back for a possible bust at the 4th round next year? I think TT’s ego is going to get the best of him which means the best of us. In 1996, Wolf made some bold moves in free agency to fill in the holes and the Pack was one of the best, well balanced teams of all time. We blew most teams out. Two or three free agency moves could put us over the top. Being the youngest team each year has got to stop. If/when we make it deep in the playoffs, we need some experience, maturity to guide the team to victory.

    Lastly, if we keep punting from our own 45-48 yard line when we have inches to go, I am going to scream. Rodger’s QB sneak is likely 90 effective. Punting the ball usually results in gaining 12 yards or less in field position. Fatass needs to understand percentages and how bad our special teams are. Three times this year we punt at midfield with less than a yard to go resulting in a bad punt, good return, or penalty gaining little ground in field position. What a dumb-ass!

    • Skyler

      Right ON…………………………… Excellent

    • Rick

      Good post Sammy. I agree with the go for it on the other side of the 50 though.

      This is a point most NFL coaches don’t seem to get. From the 35-50 you should not punt. Not enough field position gain, either kick the FG if you have a long leg kicker or just go for it if you don’t.

      Once you cross midfield into your own territory I understand the punt. A 45 yrd punt lands at the 5-15 you should be able to down it. We just suck with out Shields out as Gunner on coverage units.

  • monty

    Dumbass Ted strikes again. Im with all of you, seems like a cheap price to get a back he wanted back in 07….but Ted is cheap get it through your heads Packer Nation, yeah he’s waiting for Starks to come off for Game 7, well who knows what we have with Starks and he is injury pron…why do we even bother commenting on this any more, Ted and Mike think they know the path to the SB and no one is gonna tell them different. Now there is rumor Randy Moss is returning to the Vikings…I guess the Bears and Lions games wasnt enough of a wake up call for McCarthy and Thompson….see Larry and all who get on me for ragging against Thomspon, this is exactly what I am talking about, come on a 4th and a conditional to upgrade our running game, a no brainer, but no Ted’s too cheap, like who is he gonna draft that would be better. Look at what he did, drafted jackson with a second and he’s a BUST, thats right all he can do is pass block and run screens, cant run for crap, and Thompson drafted Starks who was injured his senior year, and look how that turned out. If we believed in the run more as a philosophy, we would have a better running game, but we dont, Mc Crappy just slings the ball 50 times each game. I wouldnt complain if I werent a true Packer fan, but this just gets old, Ted keeps passing on players that could really make us dominant, so Ill sit back and watch him take us to the SB with the players we have cuz that is his way, cheap to the end. Washington 28 Packers 21.

  • Doug R

    Rumor on pft: moss to Vikings

  • Pierre

    Seems to be a foregone conclusion from this board that Seattle has locked up this years’ SB with the acquisition of the third string running back from Buffalo. Astounding move by that GM…after all, all the pseudo GMs on this site, who are fully aware of all the issues involved, are in agreement. Foolish TT, and why did he have to move up into the first round last year and take Matthews?! What a mistake that was too!!!! …….

    • Pierre, you know how out of character it was for him to get Matthews. I thought TT had changed but we see the same M.O. Seattle doesn’t have a chance to go to the SB but we do so who needs Lynch more? At least we got to see what his value was and will get to see his production much like we did with Moss(though I don’t expect him to break the TD record like Moss did). Now we should get to the more exciting prospect of getting Bonamego to fix our ST’s.

    • Skyler

      Matthews was an excellent fine. But you need to evaluate TT for this 6 years’ body of picks.

  • Well, Monty and Sammy, I guess TT ego, Fatass, dumb-ass, cheap, crap, and Mc Crappy says it all. I would have thougt though that NE would have won the SB by now with Moss. Maybe Moss will get there with Favre after all.

    • LT, at least Moss got to the SB. When we get there we’ll be able to criticize the Pats for giving a 4th to get him. I really don’t want to complain but losing a chance to make our run and return games better makes me angry. At least until we beat the Skins.

    • Moss was a head case back then who appears to finally have grown up. I like our top four WRs just fine, and until Driver and Jennings got there new deals probably cost us about the same. I’m sure with you on the Skins, but I think McNabb is every bit as talented as Hill and Cutler, although I have no idea what he has for receivers.
      Buy the way, regardless of the above, I would have gone a 4th in a heartbeat for either Moss or Lynch. There is no way we will ever know why we don’t make some of these seemingly easy deals, there has to be more to it than what we are aware of; one thing I am certain of is that its not because of ego.

      • Oddball

        I suspect that Thompson looked upon those guys as character problems, and with a young team, that’s serious stuff. I’d like to think that, but there’s Charles sitting out there at CB to remind me that Thompson can pull the trigger when he wants to – even when everybody else thinks there might be issues.

        Ach. It all comes down to results. For a winner, nearly all things are forgiven. A loser gets credit for nothing.

      • Rick

        Lt it is a 4th this year and probably a 3rd or 2nd the year after as the conditional.

        That makes it equal to a mid to high 2nd round this year using the draft pick point system. That is a little rich when you have one RB coming back and Nance already on the squad.

        Plus Lunch ( yes I typed Lunch) is only one screw up from a year suspension. I liked the idea of trading for Lynch to add a solid RB into our mix. We have to be realistic that he does have a lot of baggage and down sides, plus was only able to be third on his own teams depth chart. Good luck to Lunch and enjoy playing for the man you talked about hating when in College.

  • Larry

    Larry/tex…your right…we just don’t know and TT won’t ever let his guard down to tell us. As far as us being a pass first team like NO/Ariz…this is so true BUT…this is the frozen tundra come Nov/DEC not Arizona or a home dome…we still have the Bears/Vikes at home/Pats/Giants/Jets/Boys…etc when the winds of fall blow….It would be nice to have a back to get 50 yards (let alone 100) not name Rogers.

    I’ve moved on! Anyone want to talk GB/Redskins.

    • Proof is the ’07 championship game where we had 28 yds. rushing. That just won’t get it done.

  • mel e mel

    I really was never on board with the Lynch thing because of his potential 3rd strike. TT did something he got Nance, The question should be why isnt he playing?? The only reason we beat the Lions is they dont know how to win yet. MM hasnt gotten the alarm he keeps hitting the snooze button. It will take something along the line of the TB loss last year to fix things. Funny how lack of running game, poor ST play, and poor OL play the things that made the TB loss possible, still exist.

    • Rick

      He (Nance) is not up on our protection scheme and run pass option in the spread offense. Give him another week or so to assimulate himself into the playbook at what the Packers are doing.

  • Monty

    well larry and gang its sorta like poker, the Bears decided to draw and see if they can get a better hand, by letting Mark Anderson go and picking up Charles Grant, the Vikings are doing the same thing, they are getting Randy Moss from NE…now I am not gonna sit here and say Randy Moss is gonna put the Vikings in the SB, but at least their team is trying to be better. Ted and Mike think they have a flush, what with Starks and Harris and Bigsby coming off in game 7, the Viking game. So we shall see which team made the better hand. As for the Redskins and Dolphins game, guess we will see there too since Chullar (sp) is out Hawk and Bishop cant cover for shit, SOMEONE let Shaun Hill run for 40 yards on Sunday, McNabb is way better than Hill, so unless they plug that hole, we will be exploited again…with our great running game Im sure we will be able to control the clock….unless the Washington and Fins defense starts doing what everyone else is, going to 6 and 7 DB’s because they know we cant run worth shit. BJ takes one step and falls over cuz he has on burst or hesitates too long and Kuhn yeah he can get 4 or 5 yards s shot, but it sure would be nice to have a back that can take it to the house, and thats just our run game, Nelson cant hold on to the ball, and while he was good early he is starting to run like a white man (no offense) and what happened to our great punter we chose?? He did so well up until the Bears game and now he reminds me of the guy from last year….oh to have Jon Ryan back…if Schneider keeps trading and drafting the way he did, he is gonna built Seattle into a successful team. Im going on record right now, as long as Ted and Mike keep up their stubborn bullheaded way, we will not make the playoffs this year let alone the Super Bowl…forget the SB be lucky to play 500 with the teams we have ahead….I dont know why Thompson cant make the trades Schneider and Wolf could, I dont think its Ego, who knows, yes we are a better team since he became GM, yes we have played better since MM became the coach, but we have plateaued cant get to to the next level because someone at Packer HeadQuarters is afraid to make the moves necessary to get us deep into the playoffs. I totally agree with Larry and others who have said, come the cold winds of November and December if we are to succeed, we need a strong running game, not a dink and dunk passing game….Ted even said once in his early years he wants to build a team based on defense and a strong running game, then he hired Mc Fling who has to throw it 45 to 50 times a game to be happy…and there went that idea. I hope they prove me wrong, but from what Ive seen the last two weeks against teams the Packers should have dominated, we are one play away from disaster either on D or ST…sorry guys I see a Washington victory this weekend and a wake up call to Mc Crappy.

    • Steve Cheez

      McFling- good one

  • Larry, you’re right, time to move on. The answer on Lynch may well be that w/ so many D injuries we need to find a DE, LB, CB, or Safety out there somewhere and that could be more critical than bringing in a RB. Nance has not played simply because he doesn’t know the O yet IMO.
    New subject: Do not like Rodgers being player rep at all. Along with his recent being drawn into commenting on things other than QBing. I realize he is the titular head of the O on the field and maybe in the locker room, but player rep is a distraction that will get worse when negotiations start in earnest. It takes a lot of out of the complex time and I for one would rather he tend to the QB business full time.
    Going to be interesting to see what magic Capers conjures up this week, McNabb can be tough.

    • Rick

      He is the most likely to be on the team before and after a lock out. It makes sense for him to be the player rep. No extra work yet. His conference calls are only and hour or so a week during the season.

  • mel e mel

    No Problem with Rodgers as player rep, No football next year its a foregone conclusion. There has been no corresponding roster move for Burnett yet so something may be in the works.

  • Steve Cheez

    Anyone out there know how Capers has done against McNabb in the past?

  • Pierre

    A win on the road at Washington, in any manner, is significant this season with all the parity that is being evidenced. Rodgers needs to put together four consistent, error free quarters. Same with the ST. If these both happen, a victory for the Packers is the likely outcome.

    • Rick

      Your are right. The Packers need to play smart TO free football. No TOs and limit the penalties and this team is one of the best in the NFC. A road win will feel good. Lets just go do it. Last game was last game.