With no free agency how do I believe the 2011 Green Bay Packers will look like

By Rick

Using Jersey Al’s excellent roster printout which PA was kind enough to post, here is what I think the roster will look like. You will notice that with TT’s drafting of hybrid back players I believe the move is being made to switch over from traditional FBs to the hybrid back. This should bolster ST play by increasing speed, size, and strength. Hopefully no more 74 yard kick returns by lineman. Swain versus Robinson and West for the last roster spot at WR will be a great one to watch. Swain is a FA but GB is his best place to stick. The last item is Nick Barnett. You will notice I placed him on P/UP. He is coming off an season ending injury and as much as we think he has value it is diminished. With him on P/UP he can continue to heal and GB can wait until week 6-9 to bring him back onto the roster. Depending on injuries he might be the shoot in the arm GB needs to stay in the hunt to repeat. I see minimal depth behind Hawk and Bishop on the inside.


# Name Pos. Ht. Wt. Age Exp. College
10 Flynn, Matt QB 6-2 225 25 4 Louisiana State
12 Rodgers, Aaron QB 6-2 225 27 7 California

25 Grant, Ryan RB 6-1 222 28 5 Notre Dame
Green, Alex RB 6-0 225 22 R Hawaii Draft pick
44 Starks, James RB 6-2 218 25 2 Buffalo
45 Johnson, Quinn FB 6-1 263 24 3 Louisiana State

Williams, D.J. FB/TE 6-2 245 22 R Arkansas Draft pick

Cobb, Randall WR 5-10 191 20 R Kentucky Draft pick
80 Driver, Donald WR 6-0 194 36 13 Alcorn State
85 Jennings, Greg WR 5-11 198 27 6 Western Michigan
87 Nelson, Jordy WR 6-3 217 25 4 Kansas State
16 Swain, Brett WR 6-0 200 25 3 San Diego State F/A

83 Crabtree, Tom TE 6-4 245 25 2 Miami (Ohio)
88 Finley, Jermichael TE 6-5 247 24 4 Texas
81 Quarless, Andrew TE 6-4 252 22 2 Penn State
Taylor, Ryan TE 6-3 254 23 R North Carolina Draft pick

63 Wells, Scott C 6-2 300 30 8 Tennessee
62 Dietrich-Smith, Evan C/G 6-2 308 24 2 Idaho State
67 McDonald, Nick C/G 6-4 316 23 2 Grand Valley State
71 Sitton, Josh G 6-3 318 24 4 Central Florida
74 Newhouse, Marshall G/T 6-4 319 22 2 Texas Christian
75 Bulaga, Bryan T 6-5 314 22 2 Iowa
76 Clifton, Chad T 6-5 320 34 12 Tennessee
78 Sherrod, Derek T 6-5 321 22 R Mississippi State Draft pick
70 Lang, T.J. T/G 6-4 318 23 3 Eastern Michigan

95 Green, Howard DE 6-2 340 32 7 Louisiana State
Guy, Lawrence DE 6-4 304 21 R Arizona State Draft pick
91 Harrell, Justin DE 6-4 315 27 5 Tennessee
96 Neal, Mike DE 6-3 294 23 2 Purdue
79 Pickett, Ryan DE 6-2 340 31 11 Ohio State
98 Wilson, C.J. DE 6-3 290 24 2 East Carolina

94 Wynn, Jarius DE 6-3 285 24 3 Georgia
90 Raji, B.J. NT 6-2 337 24 3 Boston College

55 Bishop, Desmond LB 6-2 238 26 5 California
54 Chillar, Brandon LB 6-3 237 28 8 UCLA
49 Francois, Robert LB 6-2 255 25 2 Boston College
50 Hawk, A.J. LB 6-1 247 27 6 Ohio State
59 Jones, Brad LB 6-3 242 25 3 Colorado
52 Matthews, Clay LB 6-3 255 24 3 Southern California

93 Walden, Erik LB 6-2 250 25 4 Middle Tennessee State
58 Zombo, Frank LB 6-3 254 24 2 Central Michigan

House, Davon CB 6-0 195 21 R New Mexico State Draft pick
22 Lee, Pat CB 6-0 196 27 4 Auburn
37 Shields, Sam CB 5-11 184 23 2 Miami (Fla.)
38 Williams, Tramon CB 5-11 191 28 5 Louisiana Tech
21 Woodson, Charles CB 6-1 202 34 14 Michigan
24 Bush, Jarrett CB/S 6-0 200 26 6 Utah State
42 Burnett, Morgan S 6-1 209 22 2 Georgia Tech
36 Collins, Nick S 5-11 207 27 7 Bethune-Cookman
26 Peprah, Charlie S 5-11 203 28 6 Alabama

2 Crosby, Mason K 6-1 207 26 5 Colorado F/A
61 Goode, Brett LS 6-1 255 26 4 Arkansas
8 Masthay, Tim P 6-1 200 24 2 Kentucky


56 Barnett, Nick LB 6-2 236 29 9 Oregon State



6 Harrell, Graham QB 6-2 215 25 1 Texas Tech

17 Robinson, Antonio WR 6-1 195 25 1 Nicholls State

11 West, Chastin WR 6-1 216 24 1 Fresno State

69 Campbell, Chris T 6-5 328 24 1 Eastern Illinois

Schlauderaff, Caleb G 6-4 302 23 R Utah Draft pick

68 Ross, Jay DT 6-3 302 23 1 East Carolina


Smith, D.J. S/LB 5-11 239 22 R Appalachian State Draft pick


43 Greco, Michael S 6-3 224 24 1 Central Florida

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  • mel e mel

    I agree with everything except, Swain I think he is done. Cobb and the 2 TEs take his ST role.

    • Rick

      The way the offense is set up I still think5 WR will have to be on the roster, if not Swain then West or Robinson.

      • Troy

        No, Finley will be the 5th WR in most sets anyway. Swain is in jeopardy and better have a good TC. I highly doubt Guy makes the roster this year- he has a LONG way to go to make it at this level and should be on the PS. Ross has a better shot at making the roster this year than Guy. Definitely would bet on Kuhn coming back and Quinn Johnson being shown the door as well.

  • iccyfan

    You’d get tarred & feathered for this over on Packer Report for failing to include Ricky Elmore. I don’t pretend to know anything, but fans over there are seemingly convinced he’s better than Brooks Reed and practically CMIII!

    I’m still hoping they get this labor impasse settled so this team gets some OTA and a full training camp. The whole point of this draft, according to TT & MM, is to foster heated competition for the 53. As an example, I love what I read about D. House, but I want him to win that roster spot versus Josh Gordy and Brandon Underwood in camp, rather than have it handed to him. That’s just one example of the competition I’m looking forward to…

    The only “issue” I have with your 53 is the inclusion of Quinn Johnson. He is not the devastating lead blocker he was advertised to be, nor does he have the versatility of Kuhn or ST play of Hall. I understand you’re not including free agents; hopefully something better for that roster spot will come about (still holding out hope for Henry Hynoski!)…

    • Rick

      I agree that I want House to earn the dime CB spot.

      As far as Elmore. He is a 6’5″ 4-3 DE that they used at OLB across from one of the best OLB pass rushers in college. It helped his numbers.

      Lets say he can play a 3-4 OLB at an NFL level,how does he compare to the projected starter Brad Jones? How about the rest of the OLB depth?

      Ricky Elmore Arizona DE/LB 4.88 4.32 0.56
      Brad Jones LB 4.54 4.21 0.33
      Frank Zombo DE/LB 4.75 4.34 0.41
      Erik Walden LB 4.72 4.29 0.43
      Clay Matthews III LB 4.62 4.18 0.44

      Again with the depth at OLB it will be difficult to make the team. Elmore is similar but slower than Zombo. Who are you picking, Zombo or Elmore at back up OLB? I have to go with the 1 year veteran that made it work on the field until his injury and picked Zombo.

      Reality will be which is better if there is a Training Camp.

      Also I hated leaving Johnson on roster,but if he is a FB and not on ST I would be okay.

    • I think Elmore will beat out Brad Jones. And I do agree Underwood will be gone. I’m not sure if Bush will still be here.

  • Rick

    Al Harris will get a RING!!! Good move by the Packers. Classy thing to do.

    • I really was hoping he would. This was the right move. He was on the team for half the season, just trying to get back. Even though he didn’t play a game this year, he still was a contributor in a lot of other ways, I’m sure. Al is a class act, and so was GB for doing this.

      • Rick

        If I am correct you were the guy that said he should get one when he was on IR with the Dolphins. I am glad you were right Scot.

  • chris k

    i like your thought of doing this now and wish packernet would make his too!
    uumm, with that said… there is no way harrell makes it this season!! and you prob will reason and say well they’ve paid him and it doesn’t hurt to see if the talent can finally expose itself but the team can’t trust this player to hold down a spot on the 53. he’s literally an injury waiting to happen, good guy but lets move on….

    i agree with you on most everything else except Barnett absolutely will NOT allow the team to place him on p.u.p. — i’ve heard his recent rants about staying and needing quality depth but he also said he expects an open competition and that means he wants to start. he wont accept pup.

    it should be interesting to see who that last CB spot goes to between underwood, lee, or gordy. I think they like gordy man and could see him beating out those two underperformers so lets hope gordy is our next pet tramon!

    what happened to ricky elmore??! we dont even sign him to the practice squad or did you miss that one?
    I think we will only go 7 deep on the D-line, remember most games we only activated 5. and cj is developing.. So GM-Rick I think you need to cut Harrell when he gets injured in camp & find us someone better than jarius wynn b/c he stinks and no development was made(the only play he made was when he was blocked into Roethlisberger’s leg!!!) We need to improve there and i hope cj wilson’s roommate jay can help us there : )

    last note: i think ryan taylor goes p.s. but I LOVE the list you made and I really hope you sign us John Kuhn for the next 3-4 years!
    Then you start working on the in-season extensions of G-JS & WR-JN, I understand if you let the nutcase go(aka J Finley) after the season when our younger guys are more seasoned, that is what your preparing to do correct with the drafting of all these young pups?(quarless, dj williams, ryan taylor mix, tom crabtree.) I know he doesn’t exactly set the gold standard with his filmroom sleeping and over cocky attitude!

    • Rick

      I think GB cuts Elmore and he is picked up by a 4-3 team like the Bears or a 3-4/4-3 transition team like the Broncos. He won’t last on our practice squad.

  • chris k

    Whos your starting O-line? i think CC, TL, SW, JS, BB with the backups being DS, MN, NM, and either ED-S or CS is he shows up big.

    and whos your top 3 breakout performers? i def think M Neal will be on that list!

    • Rick

      Neal will have a chance this year with Jenkins gone.

  • Larry

    I think Elmore will come in more polished because of his workouts with CM2 and CM3. I like the idea of Brad Jones working some inside and I think it leaves Francois or Barnett out in the cold. Barnett has $6M due this year…alot for an insurance policy if not starting.

    As usual…a great post!

  • LarryTex

    Lets see now, he has been a starter for about 4 years now and has a 2nd rnd tender in his pocket. Last couple of years has beaten back Newhouse and McDonald, even Bulaga if you want to stretch but he cannot even make the roster.
    A long as there are 3 other free agents on your roster lets go with a starter until he gets beat out whether he is well liked by us or not. Seems to me we had this argument last year.

    • iccyfan

      He was outspoken in his unhappiness with a 2nd Round RFA tender last season and didn’t jump at the opportunity to sign it this year. Not to speak for Rick, but I’d venture a guess he’s anticipating both Colledge & Jones to end up unrestricted and seek greener contracts elsewhere.

      • LarryTex

        I agree they will all seek greener pastures, thats what agents are for after all. I’m just betting we’re in the hunt on half of them.

  • Larry

    Obviously the new FA rules IF there’s a new CBA will come into play. Usually if GB doesn’t sign you the year prior to your end of contract you probably won’t be back. Colledge has an expired contract…I agree with Rick.

    Harrell is a toss-up. TT and MM will spout off all day about the value of big guys and he’s signed. If he makes it through training camp he’ll probably make the 53. Q. Johnson doesn’t do what we thought, I’m hoping another FB takes his spot.

    I’m wondering how many, if any we’ll trade, when possible. Barnett, Harrell, Bigby come to mind.

    • Rick

      Barnett is always hurt and has a 6 million contract. Value = 4th rounder

      His best choice is to tear up the contract and resign a team friendly 3 year deal at 3.5M per with escalators up to 5. His 6 is spread over the 3 years. His resigning or cut and resigning like Hawk did means bye bye to Chillar. My gut was P/UP, his salary is large but the depth has been very much needed th elast two years.

      Harrell has limited to no value. 6th or 7th rounder at best.

      Atari Bigby is an unrestricted FA and can sign anywhere.

  • Mel E Mel

    If only Daryn Colledge was as good as he thought. LT lets not be revisionist here BB beat out Colledge then got hurt. I wish him all the best in his future endeavors. Its funny how you hardly ever hear a peep out of Sitton, hmmn I think his play does all the talking, what a novel concept.

    The Packers are getting jobbed on the NFLs top players of 2011. I really believe they added several Packers at the end to avoid embarassment. #99 Chad Clifton, #96 Nick Collins #81 B.J. Raji and now Jennings at somewhere between 80-71 so somehow there 70 better NFL players than Greg Jennings. Only 3 Packers left Rodgers, CMIII and Woodson. So Sitton, and Tramon Williams get screwed.

    • LarryTex

      I’m just saying he starts regardless, nobody they bring in beats him out nor do they go FA to replace him. While on the FA subject seeing how TT treated Hawk and Williams it wouldn’t surprise me if both Jenkins and Colledge were back. You remember what we were all saying about Hawk a year ago – gone, gone, gone…..!

  • Packer’s Advocate

    Been enjoying the write-ups Rick!!! You’ve certainly been logging a bunch of keystrokes. At least one more write-up needed from you, after free agency opens and the dust settles.

  • iccyfan

    MEM – where’s this player count-down list you’re referencing?


    My question for the day: Murphy has openly discussed retiring #4 “in a few years”. Davon House wore #4 at New Mexico State. Any chance Davon House is assigned #4 upon his arrival in Green Bay?


    Listed below are the retired football jersey numbers of former Green Bay Packers players.

    Green Bay Packers Retired Numbers
    Num Player
    3 Tony Canadeo
    14 Don Hutson
    15 Bart Starr
    66 Ray Nitschke


    Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but mine is that Brett Favre does not belong on this list. Vince Lombardi said Forrest Gregg was the greatest player he ever coached, yet #75 is not on the list. Neither are Hornung (#5), Jim Taylor (#31) or 18 other Hall of Fame players who wore the Green & Gold. Retiring a number should be reserved for players who went beyond great and also represented the franchise well, including after their Packer careers had concluded. Favre doesn’t measure up. I vote “no” to retire #4 and “yes” to assigning such to Davon House!

    • LarryTex

      Here, here! Favre has longevity going for him and little else, IMO. The one major thing that separates the above from the rest is total respect. Through the years I’ve never heard a disparaging word against any of those four.

    • Rick

      Guys. Brett Favre and the #4 are going to be retired here in GB. Probably not for a year but before his HOF induction in 5 years.

      Until then House or anyone is welcome to it….however NFL rules stipulate the a CB/S can only have numbers 20-49.

      Only a QB/ K/ P may have #1-19

      • iccyfan

        No Fun League and it’s stupid uniform number rules! WR’s can obviously wear numbers in the teens (Brett Swain), so there must be exceptions. Maybe House punted at some point in his career and could be designated as the backup to TM!

        Even if House can’t wear it, it still doesn’t change my opinion that BF is not worthy of having his Packer jersey retired. NFL Hall of Fame – Yes; Packer HOF – Obviously; Packer Ring of Honor – Probably; Retired Packer Jersey Number – Not Deserving, considering the standard set by previous recipients of this honor!

        • Rick

          It is based on the position you were drafted. Thus Hester received an exemption so he can stay in his CB number even though he is a WR/KR/PR now.

        • Rick

          BTW Swain had number 16 in college and asked for it when he was in camp. GB listed him as an emergency QB and gave him #16 when he made the roster. He also plays the “mobile” QB role with the scout team sometimes.

          • iccyfan

            Only a QB or kicking specialist can wear #’s 1-10, hence my suggestion D. House be listed as our backup punter. By rule, WR’s can wear 11-19. The Packers didn’t make any exceptions or pull any positional shenanigans to get Swain #16. There are quite a few WR’s in the NFL wearing #’s in the teens (Nate Burleson, etc.).

            P.S. I did not know the rules and had to google ’em…

          • Rick

            I never did see a league announcement of exemption like they did on Hester. I googled the rule as well after your post and Bob’s your uncle, 11-19 is listed on WR eligable #s. That explains it. Good eye iccy.

  • Mel E Mel

    NFL Networks top 100 Players of 2011 as voted by the players.

  • chris k

    I’d like to see a pre-minicamp depth chart with whom you expect the Pack to sign in free agency (ala J. Kuhn).
    That would be interesting to see where you project the OLB’s, OL, etc.

    • Rick

      I think they will bring back Swain to compete, maybe Kuhn and Hall to chellenge the H back we drafted in camp.

  • Larry

    Seems to me a 4 and a 7 are better than nothing. Take what you can get rather than letting them walk. TT will find the diamond in the rough. I just don’t think Barnett will restructure to stay on the team, a trade is the only way we get to send him to a team we don’t face regularly..(I’m thinking Detroit, Minn).

    I’m not sure Harrell (QB) is going to make through waivers to get to the PS. At some point we either have to add a third QB to the roster or continue to develop a new one as teams with a WC bent grab a McCarthy trained backup from the practive squad or waivers. I’m pretty sure we’re not looking to add a third QB but IF Rodgers gets another concussion he could be out a few games

    • Rick

      Most teams have their developmental QBs already and with the run on QBs i the 1st and 2nd rounds Harrell is no tthat attractive to most teams….yet.

  • LarryTex

    Why would we be concerned about where a GB castoff lands if the reason he is a cast off is that he is injured all the time, or costs too much money, or drops too many balls, or, or, or?

  • Larry

    Ask TT why BF didn’t get traded to Minny instead of the Jets…given we would be trading him, why trade him in the division if you can trade him outside the division..simple logic LT.

    • LarryTex

      Yeah, I guess you’re right. 12m W/ the O playbook vs an overpriced MLB w/ less than 30 games under Capers.

  • chris k

    Do I smell the making of an MVP Season in Green Bay????

    • Rick

      I will take no MVPs and GB wins another Super Bowl!! 🙂

  • Rick

    As far as GB offering UDFA contracts to come to camp there really is not much out there for TT to bring in. In fact of about 400 players I really only see 4 that might appeal to GB other than camp bodies.

    Cedric Thornton, DT, Southern Arkansas
    A senior that plays a little high but has an excellent motor and attacks double teams. Played against poor competition but has solid tape. Player #161 on big board estimate 5th round pick. A late round Pickett clone.
    6’3” 309lbs ran a 5.25 40yd and a 4.71 shuttle COD= 0.57

    Martin Parker, DT, Richmond
    Always looked down on and had to work hard for everything. Has great character. Again small school player with okay tape. Love this kid. He needs a 3-4 teaching coaching staff.
    His player #187 on my big board.
    6’2” 303lbs. ran a 4.95 40yrd and a 4.57 shuttle COD= 0.42

    Jarred Fayson, WR, Illinois
    Top recruit from Florida that followed Zook to Illinois after Fayson’s brother died. Buried behind Arrelious Benn ( Tampa Bay )on the depth chart he finished with limited numbers. He finished his degree early and is no dummy. Has heart and desire which was lacking in 07 and 08. His prima donna bubble popped a while ago. Limited in game tape. #392 on big board
    6’0” 207lbs ran a 4.38 and a shuttle of 4.31 COD= 0.07

    Lucas Patterson, DE, Texas A&M
    A big body guy that played in the Big 12 and has decent tape against some of the best college players. Needs work to develop but has good basics. #582 on my big board
    6’4” 293lbs. ran a 5.10 and a shuttle of 4.44 COD= 0.66

    • iccyfan

      I’d add:

      willie smith, ot. east carolina – big on athletic potential, small on experience;
      terrence toliver, wr, lsu – all the physical tools but lacks concentration – too many drops;
      mark herzlich, olb, boston college – still coming back from well-chronicled battle with cancer;
      joe lefeged, s, rutgers – big range but needs work on run support & tackling;
      kris o’dowd, c usc – once the almost uncontested #1 center prospect – battled injuries;
      henry hynoski, fb, rutgers – top 25 “football player” on National Football Post ratings;
      jerrod johnson – aTm or josh portis – cal (pa) as developmental QB prospects;

      • Rick

        Great thoughts and picks iccy

        Willie is a Long Snapper and developmental O lineman. He has a better chance to make another team then GB. He would be an invite, I just don’t think he will pick GB. Good pick iccy.

        Toliver looks like a WR but catches like doodoo.

        Mark is to much of a medical red flag and risk for this amount of money.

        Lefeged is a 5’11” LB playing saftey. He is horrible in coverage and has no back peddle. He is a beast on run support on the line from the saftey spot. Kind of a one trick pony though.

        Dowd failed almost everyone’s medical at the combine. Just so much of a risk. I had removed him from the draft board.

        I like Hynoski but I think TT is going hybrid back. I would invite him if we feel that GB will run more I-formation WC. Otheriwse it will be like last year when we run spread 4WR and single back and no FB needed other than ST.

        Jerrod Johnson has a slow wind up and a horrible side arm release that has him throwing as if he was a 6’0″ QB instead of a 6’5″ guy. Major mechanical issues. I think the CFL will work out for him though.

        Josh Portis was a guy we discussed previously a couple of posts ago. I like him like you do. He would be a great invite and would benefit tremondously from MM QB camp for a year or two . I tip my hat to you again on a possible #5 or #6 invite. However I think he realizes that here in GB at best he is Practice Squad, on other teams he might be a #3 and on a roster. All that said I think reality will be that he will be an Arena Football QB.

        • iccyfan

          I’m not a tape-watcher; just read as many reviews as a I can from as many sources as I can find and attempt to formulate an opinion. With the exception of Hynoski (Quinn Johnson is my new least favorite Packer), I look at my entire list as likely practice squad guys, not rostered 53.

          I don’t think you can have too many athletic OT’s, hence the raw Willie Smith at the top of my wish list. The scouts I like say Willie, with development, is a prototype Left Tackle. Those guys are rare, so if you can snag one as an UDFA and work him up, I say he’s worth Chris Campbell’s practice squad spot!

          I must have missed something on Joe Lefeged, as my take was 180 degrees opposite of yours! My favorite scout says he ran low 4.4’s and had great range but was a suspect tackler. In any case, I don’t think we’re in need at safety, so I didn’t really see him as anything more than a camp body or possible PS guy…

          Keep up the great work Rick! I enjoy the Packer discussion immensely during these slow times…

          • Rick

            Sad that the best we can talk about if draft picks and possible UDFAs.

  • Larry

    Anyone else interested to see Rick’s mancave???

  • LarryTex

    I may have (or rather, probably) wasted my time given TT’s propensity to shun first level FAs but I like to look at free agency players rather than the thousands of college kids out there. I would’nt know the expected potential of Rick’s 195 vs his 395. We can equate the value of FAs though. Again, I’m looking at position grouping rather than names.

    QB, forget it, practice squad guy at the most. Per TT style a guy w/ #s that was overlooked.
    RB, DeAngelo once upon a time, but not now and not a good 2010. Benson’s bubble burst.
    WR, a bunch of has-beens. Rice bad hip, and Jackson with a coach that wants him.
    OL, mostly OTs which TT undoubtedly feels our two last drafts will out perform. Beside isn’t OG our big problem? Also, we’re still a pass first O.
    DL, Johnson will be resigned by CAR and worked out better than Peppers? Jenkins still the best FA out there and I’m not convinced yet he is moving.
    LB, journeymen at best and we will be cutting better off our 85.
    Lastly DB, Baily wants to stay in DEN and will deal w/ them. ASO is a dream going down my leg and will head east for the $$. Shield’s play last year changed everything and Burnett will easily come back from injury. No need for safety help in GB.
    We have all taken a shot at TT regarding his lack of FA help and trade inactivity, but this year really proves him right. There is just nothing out there going after (top tier).

    • Rick

      Great post.
      I can only add Richard Seymour is a FA again. May be a nice veteran pick up on the cheap to bolster the Dline with Jenkins probably moving on to Dallas or Washington.

      • LarryTex

        Yeah, didn’t include him for a few reasons. I thought he had another year on the 2-year, I read a month or so that the coaching staff liked him so much that they would all quit if Davis tried to trade him, and finally, he and Campbell are the leaders of their unofficial team workouts and has developed into a locker room leader. He is older than Jenkins, if that matters. He’s a need there for sacks while we tend to depend on the LBs for ours. But certainly a good one. Probably more valuable there than Peppers in CHI.

        • Rick

          Sounds like he won’t get away from the Raiders for cheap then.

  • Rick

    I am not getting good feedback from football friends in organizations. The owners are playing to win. They were extremely upset with the old CBA and what it actually was going to cost them. If I was the players I don’t think you can force this. Even if they win in court they will loose as the owners will up the ante and impose severe contract poison pills for a variety of things. The delay for court precedings is killing me and we are still a month away from the NLRB ruling on the decrtification as a sham.

    Hopefully with a solid knowledge base in GB, we will be a force next year as newer teams will have minimal prep time. I am thinking Sept this gets settled.

  • Rick

    WOW. A Super Bowl 1 ring went for $73K at auction. I am a Packer fan but that is the ultimate in Packer Backer!!

  • Jeff

    Nick Barnett will help the Packers stay in the hunt to repeat? The Packers are repeating with or without Barnett

  • LarryTex

    Forgetting the $$ side of the argument ( because I think the cap will be high enough to rework deals for Colledge, Jenkins, Biggy, Jones, and Barnett) I’m looking for a motivation for a player to want to leave a champion (other than pure dollars). So I went back to the ’96 roster.
    Not 100% sure but I think Jackson, Jones, McMahon, Rison, and Ruettgers retired. Howard and Jaecke went to greener pastures, and a half a dozen other no-names walked or were cut.
    If the game has become that mercenary (sp) that a guy would leave a championship locker room for another 500k tax free on a million increase then, like baseball and basketball, I start to lose interest. I think the Packers will try to keep all five in keeping with TT’s other philosophy of keeping our own. After all, you can count on one hand those who he has let go so far. Only one that jumps out at me is the DE traded to CLE.

    • Steve Cheez

      Didn’t Jacke get booted out of town for fraternizing with Holmgren’s daughter?

    • Steve Cheez

      Howard was a prime example of somebody leaving the perfect environment, never to be heard from again.

  • Larry

    I think there are a few reasons to leave a SB organization other than you get cut scenerio. First it’s the money. On a job for job basis, all things being equal, there comes a point where the difference is large enough that you make the switch. For some it’s smaller than others.
    2. It’s the system…Kampman is a great example…he’s a much better DE than OLB..he needs a 4-3 to thrive. 3. Playing time…these guys are ultra-competitive and for the most part were starters and “stars” in college. Even the 7th round picks were stars on their college teams…all they want is an opportunity…if you’re buried on the depth chart you need to change teams or accept that fate..alot change teams. I’m guessing Matt Flynn will want the opportunity to start when his rookie contract expires and it’s not likely in GB. He absolutely needs to know if he can start in the NFL IMO. Hawk and Barnett were starters in the beginning of 2010, but Hawk wasn’t playing much..no fanfare or screaming but he wasn’t happy and RUMORS were he requested a trade. There were articles that indicated that. Barnett at 29 has a few good years left, will he want to be a backup when he knows he can start?? He’ll get paid well to sit…but I’ll guess he’ll want to play.
    4. There are very few teams that repeat a SB win…whose to say that the team you go to isn’t playing in the SB in 2012, 2013. Odds are great for GB to repeat but N.O. had those same odds going into 2010 and didn’t get there.

    We don’t know who’ll be back and who the starters will be, once FA starts we’ll see who makes noise.

    • LarryTex

      Not so sure, we’ll see. My counter would be that if pride still exists here are the answers. One, Jenkins is the starter with rotation. Same with Barnett or he is a co-starter with Hawk getting Hawk some much needed rests. Barnett is as capable of making the D sideline repeats as Hawk and what depth (of course, if healthy). Bigby gives a great smash mouth change even if his coverage skills leave something to be desired. Colledge is the starter; if so on the fence here where else will he start? JJ, who knows, but they all had drops (more than usual) last year but his were of the TD type. Not sure, but I’d bet we threw a lot more last year too. Seems to me that TT, as usual, holds all the cards. Rather than let them walk by not making offers it could be the NE strategy, mucho trades for future picks. Did that strategy backfire on the PATs ?

  • Larry

    The Pats were 14-2 in the regular season…hard to say their stategy “backfired”…I’m not always convinced that a non-SB team is a player/s away. Sometimes it’s a freak play (Immaculate reception) or a bad bounce (tuck rule). Sometimes a very good player makes a bad play (Ernest Byner fumble) and the reverse, pedestrian Freddie Mitchell makes a great catch. And lest we forget, if NYG covers the punt against Philly we watch the playoffs.

    I’m sure TT will do what he considers best for GB but I’m equally sure that the players will also look out for their best interests as well.

    • LarryTex

      Um, they haven’t been there since ’07 season…….!

    • Rick

      The Patriots may not have been in the SB for a few years but they have been more relevent in the last 11 years then almost any other team in the league.

      Building depth through the draft, trading off players for picks to maximize the depth of team was their calling card.

      However they also were taking advantage that what was hot the 4-3 Cover 2 defense.

      NE was running 3-4, Steelers were, Lebeau was trying in Cincy, and Capers was trying in Houston but that was it. That gave the Patriots a better quality of player than what there draft position was. There were less people picking 3-4 players.

      Note the switch is in and 3-4 players are more in demand and that means teams like Bears can reload with a higher quality pick of 4-3 players.

  • LarryTex

    Interesting discussion going on on another site regarding how to build a NFL team. While to a man (and woman) its agreed that the QB is the starting point. The discussion is dominated by who is next, LOT or DE(43) or OLB(34). IE; protect the franchise or try to destroy the other guy’s franchise. Can you imagine that argument at Fuzzy’s some late night.

    While its a definite that Starr, Favre, and Rodgers are/were franchise QBs I don’t think GB is Lombardi holder w/o Nitchke, White, or Woodson. I know many would clamor for CM3 but in reality Woody is that other OLB opposite Matthews that we all think we need. Blitzes, fills holes, and covers too.

    • Rick

      Interesting post LT. I am different from their first pick but only slightly.

      I am a firm believer in Dline first, Oline second, skills players next. When you get to skill players then I would go QB #1, CB#2, WR#3, LB#4, RB#5, S#6, TE#7

      I would rather have a beast defense and an iffy offense so if I have to lean, it is towards defense. I can stay in more games and maybe even have my defense score. Look at the last Bears SB team. That was the best defense and an iffy offense going all the way to the SB. Same goes for the Ravens when they went and won the SB.

      Steve Young played in Tampa, if he was not traded to a quality team he would never had any real success like he did in San Fran.

      A skill player at QB makes you feel good but does not win the SB until there is an actual quality team around them. YOU DO HAVE TO HAVE A QUALITY QB THOUGH TO TAKE A QUALITY TEAM TO THE SB AND HAVE A SHOT TO WIN IT. See Packer, Steelers, Patriots. The Colts where the only team where I think the offense carried the defense and won the SB but they also have a star QB in Manning to carry them.

      The Giants victory was a case of an incredible defense and Eli playing an amazing 6 games leading into the playoffs and SB. He has not replicated that performance before or since. But he shows defense gets you there more than offense.

      So I vote for a quality team with good depth is a must, if you can then have a top QB or at least top QB perfromance then you are in a good position to win it all.

      • LarryTex

        I’d guess DET is, or will be the proof of your theory;we shall see. Its pretty obvious they have given up on the skills first and are now jumping on the D first bandwagon. I’ll be interesting in a couple of years.

        • LarryTex

          Right, it’ll be interesting.

  • Rick

    By Rick
    Going back through my articles and what not at lunchtime I came across a March 2008 article I saved by a Kyle Stack & ESPN’s Lester Munson and what they thought the future would bring based on their understanding of the owner’s dislike of the 2006 CBA agreement. Looking it back over I guess it was apparent that the NFL was going to lockout and the NFLPA had already decided on decertification.
    I guess we can blame Doty and Vick as well as NFLPA and the Owners. What a shame….

    —In a grim outlook for the NFL in the near future, ESPN.com’s Lester Munson is reporting that the NFL owners could lock out the players before the 2011 season.
    The point of contention for the owners is the terms of a 2006 collective bargaining agreement in which owners agreed to let players receive 60 percent of NFL revenue. It had been 55.5 percent before the new agreement. By 2009, the salary cap is expected to be $123 million per team, which would mark a 43 percent increase from 2005, when it was $85.5 million per team.
    The owners are arguing that their profit share in their teams is decreasing, partly because of the increased percentage of NFL revenue they now share with the players. The meteoric rise in the salary cap is certainly a hindrance as well.
    Munson suggests that the NFL owners will opt out of their current CBA with the players, which they can do between now and November. If they do that, the 2008 and 2009 seasons would require teams to still operate under their salary caps. However, the 2010 season would allow teams to operate without a salary cap, which would be a prelude to a 2011 lockout.
    If the NFL owners were to take this road, Gene Upshaw, head of the NFL Players Association, stated that he would decertify the player’s union. This means that the organization will relinquish its role official labor organization of NFL players and become strictly a trade organization. The impact of this decision is that it is an antitrust violation to lockout employees who are not unionized.
    Much of the owners’ scorn revolves around David Doty, a Minneapolis judge. Doty was deeply involved with the creation of a salary cap and free agency in 1993, which benefited players in many ways.
    More recently, the gasket on the owners’ distrust for Doty blew open when the judge invited player’s union officials into his chamber – while shuttering out league executives and lawyers – 30 minutes before his November ruling on whether the now-imprisoned Michael Vick would be able to keep his performance bonuses with the Atlanta Falcons.
    Doty ruled in favor of Vick, allowing the disgraced former superstar to keep $19 million in “earned” bonuses. The ruling was the latest in what NFL owners had felt had been too many player-favored decisions over the years.
    The owners want Doty out of the picture and would ideally like to pick their own judge to handle their upcoming dispute with the player’s association regarding sharing revenue.
    The players are upset with the NFL over a league decision that the players fear could cost them money before the 2010 season.
    The NFL recently decreased the borrowing limits allowed by each NFL team, from $150 million to $120 million. The borrowing limits will decrease by $960 million altogether.
    Since the players believe that owners upgrade their contracts with mostly “borrowed” money, the players are suggesting that this decision by the NFL is a form of collusion. They believe the timing for this decision is decidedly convenient for the owners, considering the monetary possibilities that exist with a season of salary cap-free football.
    The root of this growing contention, however, is the owners’ distaste for the financial details of the 2006 CBA. The owners feel as though they let the players take too much money. The owners, many of whom must view their teams strictly as business ventures, want to maximize profits. They feel their profits would be much more lucrative if the players weren’t getting such a large piece of the pie.

    • Rick

      Those guys did call it. Opt out, decertification, and a fight to keep it out of Doty’s courtroom.

      • Packer’s Advocate

        The $19 million awarded by Doty to that “piece of shit” Vick is the courts version of the “tuck rule”. Then again the tuck rule was wrong anyway. Looked to me like he patted the ball just a fraction before getting hit. Woodson is right…………. they were robbed!!!

  • Philip

    how do you justify not including DJ Williams on your final roster? He’s as good a blocker as Crabtree and a better receiver. There’s a reason he went in the 5th and Taylor went in the 7th. Williams is a better player. Do you not think DJW can play special teams? I think he’d like to prove you wrong. He’s been doing it his whole life – overcoming the odds.

    • Rick

      I have him on the Roster. I have him in the FB RB area because I do see him as a ST and hybrid back more than a TE this year.

      • Rick

        To clairify further Phillip, I agree that DJW is more “usable” than Taylor in my opinion and he is more secure of a roster spot than the #4 TE that Taylor would occupy.

  • LarryTex

    Here again, I repeat. As long as the league has three types of owners and it is not a business in the true sense of the word – the players can’t win. You can count on one hand the number of families that depend on the NFL for their livelyhood (ie, Brown, Wilson, Halas, etc.) Wilson was the only vocal opponent of the last agreement but nobody listened. Well, they rue the day now.
    The owners right to continue the lockout will only hold as long as it takes the players to get to a liberal judge. Then the owners will go back to a conservative court, and so on. Time is not the friend of the player – not in OTA away from campus, not without the playbook, not with a rookie not even getting a wiff of the speed of the pro game, not to the half dozen FAs who expected a big pay day, and not to that old vet who is starting to get a little grey in his beard. Imagine what the fan of a rebuilding team or one thats just a couple of players away feels going through this. We may not win it all again when play resumes but the longer this goes on it has to favor the established lineup.

    • Rick

      Very true LT

    • LT, I’m glad you mentioned “liberal” referring to player friendly judges. “Conservative ” judges were put in office to be on the side of the rich and powerful even in small cases like this. All that social issue stuff is just window dressing. If you want you can follow the money. These “conservative” judges have already made a big change in our society. Much like Bush putting “conservative” lawyers in the Justice Department have changed that culture. All your efforts are finally starting to bear fruit and soon we’ll be a full fledged Plutocracy with some more window dressing. I won’t be around for the finish but I think you’re young enough to see where this will end up. Actually we could have gotten here in 1894 but McKinley got shot and Teddy Roosevelt(who big money guys like Hanna hated) broke up the trusts so that set things back 100 years. Que sera, sera.

      • Rick



        The Lord Is Not On Trial Here Today (WILL-TV) Jay Rosenstein Productions A beautifully researched documentary by a Champaign, Illinois, station, it examines a First Amendment case critical to the establishment of separation of church and state in public schools.

        I think the fact a judge ruled that some how the consitution was incorrect and ruled it says something it does not is more important don’t you?

        Starting to bear fruit…. I am sorry you lost me. Didn’t communism start, live, and die in mother Russia in the same last 100 years?? I think a free market is best for business in most cases.

        However in the case of the GAME of football I think the idea that it is set up so that slightly over half the money goes to the employees is a nice one.

        I also think that the idea that the rules for the teams and game are structured to try and make every one 8-8 so everyone is in the hunt is good.

        It is a positive that most teams every year have a chance to win and to get to the playoffs and Super Bowl. The revenue is shared, the schedule adjusted, the draft is structured so the worst team gets a chance atthe best player.

        That does not work in business as it is collusion. But it works great in a GAME….

        • Nothing free about a market that restrains trade by dint of capital concentration. Sorry about the rant Rick but I saw the same 2-1 ruling that LT did and went down a different track. Communism restrains trade completely and is as complete a failure as anything humans have tried. Amazing the idea lasted as long as it did.

  • LarryTex

    Well Mark, fear not. Now that 51% of the voting public can now vote to receive the largess from the taxpayers, Capitalism is doomed. You also need not worry about the Bush Justice Department with Holder in charge. I wont be around for the finish either.

    • Sorry to hear that LT. Capitalism was working great under Clinton. I want the government to stop giving out money to undeserving people too. Remember Clinton ending welfare as we knew it with Republican help. However it’s corporate welfare that needs to go along with ethanol subsidies.
      I’m sure no one else is reading this so maybe we should take a break on politics on this site. Do you have another political sites you’re on that we could rant on about this stuff. I kind of like it but know it’s inappropriate here.

      • LarryTex

        No need to Mark, since I agree that Clinton did th right thing on that Welfare to Work or what ever it was called. Wasn’t that also known as the “Milwaukee Plan”; been a long time ago. I also agree with you re corporate welfare, foreign aid – probably, and that stupid ehanol subsidy that is only driving up corn (maza) prices all over the globe. Nice chatting w/ yam from the Right!

        • LarryTex

          PS you might find it interesting that my wife works (too young for SS) for the Govt. ie; Food Stamps, Medicaid, TANIF, etc. Go figure, you ought to hear her stories…………………!

  • Jeff

    Liberals will ruin this country , all they want is the everyone to run wild and not have to pay for breaking las and they want to push their immoral lifestyles down our throats , they will never get their way !

  • Jeff

    Liberals want people to hold jobs whodo not have the brains to hold them , they are they type of people who think the criminals are good people and people who follow the law of the land are no good.
    Liberals are the type who say the war in Iraq was bad but they will never say that the current president was wrong for going to war in Lybia , wake up people before you are all living in the old Soviet Union !

    • Rick

      Jeff, appreciate you posting but we are like three threads ahead friend.