When they get a new CBA in place, draft first and FA comes second…

By Rick

I have been looking at how the slate of the NFL business is now wiped clean. With the new CBA we will have a chance to correct many things in how the NFL runs its business. One which we all know is coming is a rookie salary “cap” to keep first round contracts from being the burden they have become. The second is the timing of the NFL’s “business”.

Currently the Super Bowl is in the first part of February and about 4 weeks later is the beginning of the new NFL “year” and the start of Free Agency. A week or two later is the combine and then 4 more weeks until the draft.

What makes the most sense should be to move the combine and draft up a few weeks so the draft is close to the beginning of April and then shortly there after start Free Agency.

Why? Who cares? Well looking at drafting as being for the future to take players and begin to train them for possible starter positions it makes sense to draft for youth first and then bring in Free Agency later. This allows FA to either add depth or go after a particular player to fill needs as they have already been trained in how to do their job at an NFL level.

Using our Packers for example, is it urgent to resign or keep Tauscher under contract for 2011, I say no. Last year we resigned him for depth not knowing that we would have Bulaga fall to us in the draft. If TT and MM had drafted and signed Bulaga first would Green Bay have resigned Tauscher? Perhaps because he was one of the top FA RT out there and knew the system already. His veteran leadership would have still demanded his price tag. Of course with a training coaching staff here in GB maybe not and Tauscher would have been able to try and sign on the open market. That was a 5 million dollar decision for 2010 and is nearly the same for this year.

Smart money is to have the draft first and then allow the market to truly set the FA pricing and best fits for players. Also UDFA from the draft will have to what until this same FA period which really enhances the FA pool with both veteran and rookie players.

Rookie FA have normally gotten to “choose” where they think they will have the best chance to stick, now mid level FA will get that same chance. Would you rather go after a Tim Hightower (RB Cardinals) for depth with NFL experience or the top UDFA RB?

With demand comes choice, for Hightower could pick and choose where he thinks he will fit even if it is just for depth.

Do you like the idea of draft first, or should the NFL leave it as is?

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  • LarryTex

    You make sense, as usual Rick, but FA RT(?), really!

    • Rick

      lol

  • Larry

    a 12 year vet at that…no respect…I’m thinking leave it as is…Given that a draft pick is the most coveted of currency to all but the late George Allen, having signed or at least knowing who might be available as a FA might change how you draft particularly at QB. If Kevin Kolb had been signed as a Viking BEFORE the draft their draft would be different and so would everyone else’s.

    Should a team be switching from a 4-3 to a 3-4 they might want that all important NT in the fold and not risk reaching in the draft. Potentially trading for Howard Green on the Packer roster and giving TT another 3rd or 4th. Or a GM may want to jetison their traditional LB’s building his draft pick pool to take advantage of a particularly deep class of OLB’s.

    The draft seems to be the biggest lottery…win or lose… and to the extent you know what choices you have and what you’re looking for and not looking for should provide an edge.

    • LarryTex

      The prefect conumdrum! You guys are right back to the need v. BPA approach to the draft. I’m in the BPA school but that is talking from the #32 spot. The number one pick is always need, as it should be. As always the dichotomy then is from two to thirty-one in varying degrees. You’re so right in that FA targets are always based on need.
      I think a major separation of TT from the rest of the pack is that he goes for depth in FA and gets starters in the draft. Exceptions (Woodson) of course, but the trend is sure there even if that starter takes a year or two to develop. In my mind the pun comes from the fact that he seems to be always (what would Harrell been like w/o the injuries?) right with few (so far) misses.

  • BubbaOne

    I do like the draft first AND I would tweak the FA/UDFA. As it is now I would want to sign UDFA’s right after the draft. Bring in all the rookies for a rookie camp and then 10 days later open up the FA market. Using Sam Shields and Frank Zombo as a case in point. You may find a so called diamond in the rough from your UDFA’s and wouldn’t need to bring in an FA. And any FA worth their weight shouldn’t be worried about competing against an UDFA.

    BTW—”Also UDFA from the draft will have to what…” (did you mean to say “wait” here?)

    • Rick

      I did. Bad typing strikes again……

  • Larry

    I’m not sure 10 days to evaluate an undrafted FA or rookie without pads would be enough to stop a team from signing a veteran FA. We should also remember that Zombo wasn’t the starter, Jones was.

    Shields, to his credit must have beat out Lee or Underwood to earn dime/nickle. Woodson and Williams were the starters. Had one of those two gone down I’m betting TT might have brought in a VFA even with Shields in the fold given his 1 yr of CB experience with U of M.

    Knowing what your hunting for (as in the draft) and not hunting for as having signed your VFA seems to be the best way to maximize the draft IMO.

    • Rick

      Actually I am looking at this from both team and player perspective. After the draft Free Agents of midlevel would be in the UDFA pool. This would allow a team in transistion to focus on particular players as well as allow the midlevel to pick and choose which they really have limited ability to in the current system.

  • http://Orlando Mark

    Pack, the best team in pro sport. Not that I ever had a doubt. A lot of credit should go to our fans. Even the bitching and complaining meant we weren’t going to settle for less. And, the support, even in bad times, is remarkable. Go Pack.
    I like the UDFA first with a chance for them to get a start before the FA’s. because you really don’t know who they are until the coaches get a chance to work with them. The FA’s should be known by production in the league. The only thing I want is a chance for players that don’t make the cut to have a second opportunity to learn in a developmental league, and be signed to replace players injured during the season.

    • LarryTex

      That, my friend, says it all in your second paragraph. Which, by the way, says a lot for McKenzie’s college scouting and FA tracking sections. It’s my opinion that TT owes a lot of his success to Mc. You cannot deny that a lot of the FAs out there that a lot on this site clamored for really didn’t really work out too well – a certain OG at NYJ comes to mind. Often the move you don’t make becomes your best.

    • LarryTex

      This might contradict what I said above, a little, but I did not realize how big a factor TT’s FA input has (or was) to our SB winning year. To wit:
      STARTERS – Jenkins, Bigby(at one time), Pickett, Williams, Woodson, Goode(LS), Masthay(P).
      BACKUPS – Chillar, D.Smith, Peprah, Shields.
      There are (20) other FAs on board with varying contributions such as Crabtree, Bell, Francois, Havner, Walden, Wilhelm, Zombo, and Nance/McDonnald if you want to count them. I was amazed at those top (11). I repeat, nice job McKenzie!

  • Rick

    I may have scooped everyone. What ever it was I guess the discussions were heated yesterday but calmer heads today helped settle things.A little birdie just told me that a “major roadblock” has been overcome this morning in the closed door meetings between owners and players. We may here more reports of lawyers coming in and out to help set the legalese of this particular agreement. I could not find out what the roadblock was though.

    • Rick

      here = hear….. man I need an edit button :)

    • LarryTex

      Sure hope they throw out that 18 game season idea. A lot of talk re taking the two away from the pre because if they took it out of the championship series the revenue suffers. Frankly, I like those last two pre games. Third game is usually a good chance of being your starting lineup and the fourth gives you, usually, three quarters of the stars of tomorrow.

    • Rick

      I guess I misunderstood. Late yesterday they calmed down. i guess the lawyers caused problems, once back out of the room the parties reached some agreement on one point. No scoop. :(

  • Larry

    Makes you wonder why some other teams spend so much on “impact” FA. You would think the price of one Haynesworth/Scott Mitchell/or Javon Walker as FA would buy a slew of scouts to find the next Tramon Williams/Shields/Zombo and alike.

    Our lack of an ownership billionaire is our real strength…it FORCES GB to be better and more diligent with scouting!

    • LarryTex

      You’ve got it! Consider the waiting list for tickets. We do not have to bring in the big name to entice ticket sales. Besides, we’ve tried the “name” before. Two that come to mind quickly are varying ugly. Hadl cost us the ’70s and Jefferson never really brought anything home even with Lofton and Dickey simply because he didn’t want to share the ball. I don’t restrict my comment to FA, but rather the pursuit of the big name.
      Think about that Hadl deal. No. 1 Devine didn’t even know that Hadl was being beaten out by James Harris as the starter in LA, and he gave up (2) firsts, (2) seconds, and a third for a 34 year old has been. No wonder we sucked for what, 20 years?

      • Rick

        Can you imagine a deal like that now?? The Cutler deal is about the most aggressive I have heard since the Ricky Williams fiasco.

        • LarryTex

          The other one in our division that comes to mind was MIN/DAL Hershall Walker – made Dallas for their run. Seems like the giver usually makes out better than the receiver. Gee, what do you think we could get for, oh, say Arod, Raji, Williams, CM? Heh, heh.

        • LarryTex

          Ricky Williams; was that the Ditka thing down in NO?

          • Rick

            Yup. “Da Coach” traded all seven picks of that draft year (1999) AND a 1st and 3rd round in 2000 to move up and take Ricky Williams. Getting the Redskins #5 pick as they were on the clock. That was an interesting draft (holds nose).

            #1 Tim Couch
            #2 Donavan McNabb
            #3 Akili Smith
            #4 Edgerrin James
            #5 Ricky Williams

      • LarryTex

        Speaking of the ‘Aints doesn’t that just prove the TEAM concept always wins over the STARS. Its true that teams are usually led by stars, but with (22) guys alternating on the field you just cannot invest in a couple of “Super Stars” and hope to win it all. Just can’t be done………….!

        • LarryTex

          I should have put Reggie Bush’s name in there someplace. Still can’t figure out whether he was a bust pick or not.

        • Steve Cheez

          Apparently it doesn’t work in the NBA either with just 5 players

      • http://Orlando Mark

        Dan Devine’s GM skills were ghastly. Beside Hadl, who gave us 9 tds. and 29 ints. in a year and a half of incompetence, Devine’s 1st rounders were Barry Smith, Barty Smith, Will Buchanon and Jerry Tagge. And, of course, left us with no 1st rounder in’75. This is a record of colossal failure. Starr had to start from zero on top of having no experience coaching. The person who hired Devine and gave him total control( Harlan was the new VP and basically a sports information director so it wasn’t him) is resposible.

        • iccyfan

          Willie Buchanon was a fine selection but the rest of that crowd doesn’t bring back the best of memories. Ouch…

          • Steve Cheez

            Didn’t he draft Brockington the year before Tagge?

          • http://Orlando Mark

            Steve, you might be right. He also traded for McArthur Lane which was a good move. But he burned Brockinton out in three seasons of overuse and was unable to develope a pass attack. A great article recently showed how important a pass attack has been in pro ball since the T formation. Devine was a good college coach because it didn’t matter there if you had a good pass game or overworked your RB. Either way this man has to go down as one of the worst GM’s of all time.

    • Steve Cheez

      Great point, Larry. It’s not always so much about having the money to sign one of the big names as it is what you could have otherwise done with that money (opportunity cost).

  • LarryTex

    Nothing going on so back to Hightower. I say, no interest and no better than what we have. High 4.5 so not a burner. Catches what about, what 5 balls a year even tho he is a sometimes starter? Just starting that 25-30 year old decline for a RB. Shoot, I’ll go for the UDFA! But, in my opinion thats the kind of FAs that TT has had out there to ponder over. Still holding to my prior thesis about the McKenzie organization…………! We need a good arguement here.

    • iccyfan

      I’ll play along. John Dorsey is the Director of College Scouting and like Reggie McKenzie, was hired by Ron Wolf. An extraordinary number of our scouting staff, including Ted Thompson, is still on board from the Wolf crew. Dorsey has the most tenure, having been with the Packers since 1991. Shaun Herrock has been with the Packers since 1992 and McKenzie since 1994. I read somewhere there’ve only been two turnover scout positions since Wolf left, and those guys were hired away to be GM’s (Schneider in Seattle and McG in San Fran). I wouldn’t assign as much credit to Reggie McKenzie as you do; it’s still “Wolf’s organization”, now run by Thompson with John Dorsey as his right-hand man when it comes to scouting. The Packers are very lucky to have this continuity; shows what a quality organization they are!

    • LarryTex

      Regardless of who hired them they are still there under TT unless McK reports directly to anyone else but TT. I don’t think so. According to my org chart Dorsey and Terry report to McK and Herrock reports to Dorsey. Interesting that young Wolf is now in the fold. The whole set up looks first rate to me.

      • iccyfan

        Titles and org charts don’t always paint the proper picture. Does Defensive Coordinator Dom Capers report thru Assistant Head Coach Winston Moss? I don’t think so. John Dorsey is the Director of College Scouting and in my opinion, probably the most under-rated cog in the machine. He and his staff are the guys finding and evaluating these UDFA prospects you covet.

      • LarryTex

        Gee, I thought they did, thanks for clearing that up. I was under the impression that the Asst. HC position was staff not line since he was shifted to ILB coach when Greene came in.

        • iccyfan

          Non-sensical response with what appears to be sarcasm – what a surprise! You said you “wanted a good argument about your McKenzie thesis”. What is it you’re looking to debate? I think Dorsey is in line for the credit in acquiring college talent (drafted and UDFA) moreso than McKenzie. You say you think McKenzie is Dorsey’s boss. I don’t know if that’s correct, but even if it is, (analogy forthcoming) my boss isn’t responsible for the quality work I do on a daily basis. He does budgets and approves my expense report. I meet with customers and get the job done. I could do his job tomorrow; he couldn’t do mine with a year of training. Just because he’s higher up the “org chart” doesn’t make him more important to the company…

        • LarryTex

          Well, your quotation marks are askew, not what I said. Needing an argument refered to the boredom that had settled in on this site in general. But, then, somehow I knew you would respond contrary to whatever I said in opposition; you always do. Sarcasm? You bet! Wouldn’t be your boss, because I WAS more important to my company than my reports and the ever loving check proved it. I’m happy for your success (not sarcasm), someday you might want to be the boss.

  • Michalske

    Having the draft before the signing period for unrestricted (i.e. veteran) free agents seems like a good idea, but it can never happen in the context of a collective bargaining agreement. Contracts end when the league year ends. To have the draft before that would mean having the combine the week after the Superbowl and the draft at the beginning of March. That’s just not realistic, nor will the players ever want to *permanently* give up their free shot at Dan Snyder and Jerry Jones’ money.

    As far as the question of signing Tauscher of you know you’ve drafted Bulaga, of course you still sign Tauscher. There is no way to know how fast Bulaga will develop, and that goes for every rookie. Putting a draft choice in a particular position is no guarantee that the spot is covered, no matter how good you think the kid is.

    Hope they get this labor thing settled so we can talk about training camp and football games.

    • Rick

      Under the last CBAs you are correct. The league year started FA,
      but if you are writing up a new CBA you can change when the FA starts in the season. My thought is that it allows teams to all draft more on a BPA format first to improve overall quality of depth, the UDFA and FA can be used to fill in teams and also allow mid level FA to possibly have a better situation to choose which team they feel they are a better fit with. This provides better product for the NFL to sell and allows midlevel veterans to make gains in the marketplace for their services of which they are currently the red headed step child in the current CBA.

      I used Hightower as an example so lets us him again. You are the Lions you have a multi year vet in Kevin Smith as your #1 RB that is ALWAYS hurt and is going to be big money to resign.

      You have a draft first and get the #2 overall rated RB in Mikel Leshore. Great but he is a rookie and having depth is good. With a delay on UDFA and FA the Lions could look at a player like Hightower as a veteran platoon RB with a similar running style to Leshore and you can get a midlevel veteran to save salary.

      OR

      current system….

      You are the Lions you have a multi year vet Kevin Smith as your #1 RB that is ALWAYS hurt and is going to be big money to resign. You are looking at the RFA and FA RBs available before the draft

      RFA – Deangelo Hall , 5 years service. Probably will need a 1st or a 1st and 3rd to trade the Panthers.

      RFA – Ahmad Bradshaw, 25yrs old, 4yrs service. Similar to picks needed for Hall

      FA – Darren Sproles, fast change of pace back. Not an every down. $3-4 million contract expectations.

      FA – Ronnie Brown, Ricky Williams, Cedric Benson, Clinton Portis, Jospeh Addai, Micheal Bush, Tim Hightower, Brandon Jackson, Jerome Harrison, and Jason Snelling.

      If I am a GM I don’t want to give up picks for the top talent so I will pass until after the draft and then see what I get in the draft. Well if that is the case lets get the draft out of the way first and then get down to the nitty gritty on FAs and UDFAs.

  • makarschuk

    I think they will dump all the free agents. They have already signed the guys they want for the future.

    Makarschuk

    • LarryTex

      Oooh, thats an interesting theory. I’m guessing, however, that Tausch would be your exception ’cause you’re not sold on Bulaga yet?

    • iccyfan

      If I remember correctly, they made tender offers to Colledge, Jones, Jackson, etc. before the lockout went into effect. I believe they’d like to have these guys back at the right price, but you can’t pay everybody what they want when you already have a top-five payroll. Should Colledge, Jones and Jackson decide to look elsewhere, potential replacements do reside on the practice squad or list of draftees. In short, I don’t disagree with your conclusion the majority of our free agents will play elsewhere next season, just think it needs to be clarified with a couple qualification statements….

      • LarryTex

        I think you’re right, iccy, but it seems like there are two tiers of FAs on our squad. I would say one qualifier is that (22) FAs were brought in last year; some kind of record. Of those (13) are in the age 23-25 yrs bracket and are highly regarded IMO. Zombo, Crabtree, Dietrich-S and McDonald to name a few. If I’m right there won’t be much activity by the Pack this year either in the FA or the UDFA markets. Looks to me like “right price” will be a huge factor as well. We have rebuilt.

        • iccyfan

          I don’t think there’s any group of players hurt more by this lock-out than the undrafted free agent crowd. I doubt Ted’ll totally ignore the UDFA crop (he’s had too much success mining it), but they’ll have limited opportunity to impress (the longer this drags on) and smart agents will steer them to teams with a better opportunity to stick.

          I love the UDFA and low-round draft pick guys; they come in with a chip on their shoulder knowing they have to make an impression! Remember Zombo last season playing pre-season on a severely sprained ankle? These are the guys who ratchet up the competition level on the underside of the roster and amongst the marginal starters.

          In conclusion, I don’t view roster turnover as a negative; I think it’s critical to continued success! Having said that, I’d like to see Colledge return if for no other reason than to force Newhouse, Dietrich-Smith, McDonald, Battles, Schlauderaff to win the job rather than inherit it. JMHO…

          • LarryTex

            Amen, like the Energizer Bunny, just keeps beating ev eryone they bring in………! Only problem I see now is the 29/6 compared to Sitton’s 25/4. I think the rest of the OGs are in the 23/2 range.

          • Rick

            True. UDFA will have less time to impress and try to WOW their way onto a team.

  • makarschuk

    We hit the lotto with our free agents last year.

    Makarschuk

  • Rick

    I just heard that an end might be insight. One of my buddies family members in the NFL has to fly to Boston. The owners agreed last night ( unconfirmed ) that no money off the top and a 48% revenue spilt for the players is fair. That should be close to what Goodell was putting together in the last couple of meetings. So now the owners are on the same page. We should have football by mid July if this keeps up.

  • Larry

    Given there will be a rookie wage scale…I’m thinking roster size to increase beyond 53 and perhaps beyond 45 game day. Saved rookie money either has to go to the vets or vets plus a few more than the 53. A couple of extra slots could benefit the Packers as it appears their roster is deep. It might be the difference in keeping Crabtree, Bush or Lee or Underwood, or Morgan.

    I’d like to see IR mirror PUP in that a player can come back from IR if healed before season-end. A player injured early in the season who is able to rejoin the team by week 12 could get 4 or 5 games plus playoff’s. Perhaps IR/PUP could be combined or perhaps limiting to 2 or 3 players those that could return might work.

    It seems PUP is only used at season’s beginning and not used during the year…I’m probably wrong on this.

    • Rick

      I agree Larry.

  • Packer’s Advocate

    Can anyone tell me what that is that happens to the center’s pinky finger? (at least I’m thinking they’re centers) I noticed Larry McCarren and a couple other ex-players that have it. Bigger question is why wouldn’t they get it fixed after their playing days. Those things are at almost ninety degree angles!!

    • Steve Cheez

      If I had any body part that looked that cool, I’d never get it fixed!

      • Rick

        There is a lot of mangled fingers in the NFL. The only ones that normally worry about their hands is WRs and QBs.

      • LarryTex

        Don’t worry, Steve, you will.

  • Rick

    A little update.

    It looks like the new CBA will be set so the players get up to 48% of all revenue. At 9.3 billion that is roughly $139.5 million dollars as salary cap for 2011 for each team. Salary floor is 90% of cap so roughly $125.5 million. No billion off the top anymore. Assuming the players are willing to drop the antitrust suit so there will be no penalties against the owners.

    Still a lot of things to settle like rookie wage scale and whether there will be franchise/transistion tags and 4 or 6 yrs for RFA.

    We may be close…….I hope

  • Rick

    Since we are bored football fans. This is from another article I saved from last year…..

    Top 5 NFL Draft-Day Trades of ALL TIME!
    Trades like these don’t come every year!

    By James LeBeau
    April 19, 2010

    2001 Michael Vick for LaDainian Tomlinson
    The Atlanta Falcons had their eyes set on Michael Vick in the days leading up to the 2001 draft and didn’t think he’d be available come the 5th pick. So they traded their fifth pick, along with their third round pick, their second round pick in the 2002 draft and wideout Tim Dwight to the San Diego Chargers for the number one pick. San Diego fared pretty well, landing Ladainian Tomlinson, a future Hall of Fame type player who proved to be one of the most versatile dual threat backs in league history.

    1999 Saints Trade 8 Picks for Ricky Williams
    Mike Ditka brought a lot of hope with him when he was hired as the coach of the New Orleans Saints at the end of the 1996 season but in the end, his stint as the leader of the Saints ended up as a failure. This failed campaigned was capped off by Ditka trading all of his picks in the 1999 draft, as well as the first and third round picks for the following season, to the Washington Redskins in order to draft University of Texas Heisman Trophy running back Ricky Williams. The icing on the cake, or the wedding cake I should say, was a picture Ditka and Williams had taken together showing the couple as just being married, with Williams in the wedding dress.

    2004 Eli Manning for Phillip Rivers
    The 2004 draft class is going to be known for its plethora of elite quarterbacks, with two of the top ones being Eli Manning and Phillip Rivers. Aside from being in the same draft class, these two will be forever linked together because of a trade that sent Eli, drafted by the Chargers, to the Giants for Rivers. The trade came about because Manning had already stated pre-draft that he wouldn’t sign with the Chargers, which left them little choice but to work this trade. But don’t feel sorry for San Diego, they received a pretty good quarterback along with picks used to draft Pro Bowlers Shawne Merriman and Nick Kaeding.

    1987 49ers Trade 2 Picks for Steve Young
    Steve Young spent two miserable years as the starting quarterback of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. His combined record for those seasons was a dismal 3-16. This seeming ineptitude led the Bucs to draft Vinnie Testaverde in the 1987 draft, thereby making Young expendable. Expendable, but not unnoticed as Bill Walsh, the then coach of the San Francisco 49ers, saw enough flashes of the player that Young could be in a good system and traded a second and a fourth round pick to nab him as Joe Montana’s backup. Young would end up spending the final 13 years of his career with the 49ers, eventually ending up as a Hall of Fame Quarterback.

    1996 Steelers Trade 2 Picks for Jerome Bettis
    It was the perfect storm of sorts that brought the Pittsburgh Steelers and Jerome Bettis together on draft day in 1996. Bettis put up good numbers in his first two seasons with the Rams, rushing for over 1,000 yards each season, but with a coaching change in 1995 came a different offensive philosophy for the Rams. The Rams wanted to throw the ball more which phased Bettis out of their offense. The final straw came when St. Louis picked RB Lawrence Phillips in the ’96 draft, making Bettis expendable.
    On the Steelers part, they were in desperate need for a power running back after their starter, Bam Morris, was arrested for drug possession, and hopped on Bettis after the Rams signed Phillips. They gave up a second round pick in the ’96 draft as well as a fourth rounder in the ’97 draft for Bettis and a third rounder. Not bad for a rusher who would become the NFLs 5th all time leading rusher.

    • Rick

      And a 1st round pick from Green Bay for a bench warmer 2nd round QB in Atlanta. The “He that will not be named” until he is in Canton as a Packer.

      • LarryTex

        Yeah, but with that pick ATL got Tony Smith, an American sculptor.

        • Rick

          ROFLMAO!!!!!!

  • Larry

    Gotta love that Ahman Green trade for Fred Vinson…now that Green is the all time Packer rusher. Maybe Holmgren would like to swap for Jarret Bush, Pat Lee, or Justin Harrell.

    • Rick

      For Josh Cribbs, you have a deal!!!

      • iccyfan

        Until recently, Joe Thomas would have been the primary acquisition target from the lowly Browns roster, which features Packer cast-offs including Evan Moore and Quinn Porter. Funny how a perceived position of weakness (OT in specific and OL in general) can turn into a perceived position of strength in a short time…

        There’s some trade history there in the late 50′s with the Browns giving the Packers players who played key roles in that 60′s Packer dynasty. I can’t remember who they were (Henry Jordan?), but evidently Paul Brown and Vince Lombardi were friendly. Let’s fire it back up for our next dynasty run!

  • LarryTex

    I’m for the draft first, then a combined period of UDFA and FA intoto. The draft is a lottery, whereas the FA (both) are negotiation selections. Further, but I have no proof of this, its my opinion that its easier to fill a hole with a proven veteran rather than an untested rookie. Damn, this is horrible; a pox on both their houses for creating this boredom……….!
    Seems obvious that a pick is for the future, when that FA (vet) is a filler for a past mistaken pick or lack thereof.

    • Steve Cheez

      I eschew your ennui

  • Larry

    I think GB and TT seem to have the right approach to FA. There is a window by which the team has to be built and while in this building phase FA must be used to some degree. Insert Pickett and Woodson as capable veterans with leadership while knowing that Rodgers/Favre, Driver, Jennings, Cliffy, Tauscher, Barnett and other CORE players are playing at a high level. Add a little luck (or great scouting)…like Peprah, Sitton and CM3 to high choices like Raji, Hawk, Nelson and maybe you get a SB contender.

    From then on the scouting and draft can theoretically replace the aging and build the back-ups IF you draft well. The wild card appears to be the ability for a later round pick or UFA to flourish when a high pick gets injured or falters. Jones/Zombo at OLB or Shields and Starks stepping in for Lee and the injured Grant.

    The Packers don’t need any high priced FA now but should injuries and retirement take a few players away at the same time, FA is a easy/quick way to get developed help to shore up the weak link. An example MIGHT be if Woodson and Shields had suffered serious knee injuries in the SB.

    • http://Orlando Mark

      I have long admired how the Patriots combined a tough draft strategy and signing veteran FA’s to fill holes. But if you saw what a good team they had last year, their trade Seymour for a #1 looks terrible. They could have used him vs the Jets. I like what TT has done signing our veterans early so we don’t end up like the Pats. Where there isn’t money for both Seymour and Wilfork. I hope TT can keep ahead of player demands.

  • Rick

    True. I think I like the draft first as it allows teams to draft for quality which adds depth. FA is then used to shore up or add more veteran depth to a roster. With a minimum floor of 90% there will be a lot more Wilhelm contracts in the future for a multi year veteran and less room for rookie depth on the cheap.

  • Larry

    GB is going to be in trouble in a couple years as well…CM3 is going to deserve a huge wage and BJ Raji is going to want to be paid…Peyton Manning is going to be paid $20M a year and what do you do with Rodgers if he takes the team deep into the playoff’s two more years or wins a second SB (God forbid).

    Drivers may get one more year under his contract but not 2012…same with Barnett. The money needs to go elsewhere. Shields is making the minimum but outplaying that contract and Williams just resigned his deal but in two years he could want top 5 money. Sitton?? and what do you do with Finley in 2012? You could argue he’s a top 5 TE.

    TT and staff are going to be busy trying to find cheaper replacements as more and more contracts come up over the next two or three years.

    Superbowl teams don’t rust in this day and age (like the old SB II champs) they rot from within when everyone wants or deserves the big buck!

    • Steve Cheez

      Man, this is awful. Winning sucks!

  • Larry

    Nah…just expensive!

  • Larry

    Happy 4th to all…green and gold on Sundays…Red, White and Blue 24/7!!

    • Rick

      Happy 4th to you as well.

  • http://Orlando Mark

    They just showed that losing the pre-season will cost the owners $800 million. Which will also cost the players almost half of that in any CBA. As usual the fans aren’t considered but I’ll bet the fans won’t miss the pre-season at all. If teams are forced to carry more players the first few weeks of the real season it will actually help the Pack. The fans can save a couple of bucks to pay their bills and possibly get the teams to reduce the number of these scrimmages in the future.

  • Larry

    For what its worth….I read that the stadium authority does not know how to enforce the new concealed gun law at Lambeau…Let’s see, most venues don’t allow glass bottles into stadiums to protect fans and players..but it’s OK to bring your 357 magnum CONCEALED.

    I’m just saying….

    • Rick

      They mean the legal aspect. I can carry a concelaed firearm onto the UW campus and classes but not the football stadium (all firearms prohibited) but the Packers don’t have rules in place.. . yet. I can bring my firearm on a plane but ammo must be be stored in checked baggage.

      It is a BS story. They will prohibit and set rules once the lawyers make sure of the language.

    • http://Orlando Mark

      Just as a social experiment why not require a firearm for everyone old enough to carry to get to see a game. I think the fans in Green Bay can show the world how safe that actually would be. Cars are dangerous but you don’t have people running into each other on purpose. It might even be a more courteous an civil experience. People can show their kids how safe firearms are and get them used to a society where guns will be more prevelant.

      • Rick

        Truth be told I am all in for all us to be trained and then we choose to either carry or not carry as is our constitutional right. Trained and licensed just like a driving a car.

        I know my car is a much more dangerous and complex tool than a firearm.

        • Rick

          But that said I would not allow booze and sports fantatics to be armed.

          • Rick

            at a game. Man I hit send to quick sometimes.

  • Larry

    I guess we should stick to the Packers…I like the European model.

  • Rick

    I want NFL football!!!

    • Rick

      I am so done with this lockout…

  • http://jlworden1@suddenlink.net LarryTex

    Hmmm, I’ll take the European model! Am in AZ where there are no carry laws that I’m aware of, just do it. Back in TX you need a carry permit given after completion of a training course. Thats why a lot of bars, etc., can post no carry sighs on their owned property and the police will enforce the will of the owner.

    • Rick

      In Arizona, no permit, businesses have discretion to decide. Permit is required in all the surroundings states, except Illinois which denies the right completely. Another reason to hate Chicago besides the Bears.

      I think Alaska and Vermont also have no permit too.

    • http://Orlando Mark

      I was thinking that fewer people want any level of government or taxes. And, more of those taxes are going to debt service. So that when we’re done there will have to be a smaller criminal justice system. Courts, prisons, police, even people giving out permits for things. So our kids are going to have to be more willing and able to protect their own homes and families. I also bought hard currency(silver coins) because our dollar might not be worth much if the Federal Government defaults. You’re welcome to talk me out of this funk, sorry.