Tainted Legacy: The Death of a Hero

Al has vowed not to use the “F” word anymore, so I’ll do it.  Everyone else has already said their piece on the issue already if they have an opinion, and this article probably will not offer anything more that what’s already been said by others on the topic.  That said, I do think yet another Favre opinion article won’t hurt anybody.

Along with the rest of the world, I bought into the hero worship of the the legendary Brett Favre.  He was marketed as the ultimate competitor, the simple guy who just loves football and doesn’t let any of the hype go to his head.

Well, the truth has come out and true character revealed.  The same guy who criticized Javon Walker for not honoring his contract has now pulled a Terrel Owens to get himself in position to play for the team of his choosing.  Favre appears to think that because of who he is, the rules do not apply and should be able to retire and unretire to play for whomever he wishes.

Sorry to tell you Brett, but not everyone thinks that way.  GM Ted Thompson made what I think is the right decision not to allow him to unretire and play for the Packers last season.  At that point I did still respect Favre a great deal, but the constant “will he or won’t he play” game year after year was getting really old.  I am sure Thompson was as sick of it as most people (if not more so) and finally said enough is enough.  Good for Ted, one big question answered and let’s move on.

Now Favre has manipulated his way out of his contract with the New York Jets by faking a second retirement and is free to play for whomever he wishes, just the way he wanted it.  It is clear now that Favre wants to be a Viking.  As a Packer fan this is the biggest slap in the face one could ever have expected from the man.  The Minnesota Vikings — the Packers’ biggest rival (and Favre’s for the past 17 years).  It hurts, and yes it does feel like a betrayal.

I remember after the 1997 super bowl loss when Holmgren left the Packers and went to Seattle to play GM and head coach, just like he wanted in Green Bay.  I remember how disappointing that was and how many people were so angry about his “betrayal”.  I didn’t personally feel that way but now I can certainly better understand how those people were feeling.

Remember just a few years ago when all was right with the world in Packerland?  We all wanted Favre to be a Packer until he retired, and then we’d build a shrine of his jersey and all hail him as the greatest football player to have ever played the game.  That dream is now long since over.

The truth is that regardless of Favre ever becomes a Viking or if he decides to hang it up for real this time, the damage has already been done.  Favre’s selfishness and huge ego has been revealed and there is no going back now.  My hero has died.  I have gone through 4 of the 5 stages of grief (minus acceptance).  The only difference between this situation and an actual death is that instead of my being able to grieve the loss and move on, Favre keeps coming back to haunt us.  It is so hard to move on from this though when it just won’t go away.

I am just completely exhausted with the whole ordeal.  My hope for the future at this point is for Favre to retire, and if that doesn’t happen I’d like to see two dominant performances by the Packers versus the Vikings this season, and maybe see Favre take a few shots from B.J. Raji as well (even if that is a bit juvenile).

I suppose this whole debacle has helped me learn a lesson.  There are no true role models in professional sports, and when you think you’ve found one they will disappoint you.  Professional athletes are just people like everyone else, and make mistakes just like everyone else.

Kevin “Not Al” Roth

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  • packer_bob

    Punk,

    I don’t understand much of your last post but let me try to help you understand the way I view things.

    It wouldn’t matter a lick to me if Starr had finished his career somewhere else. I don’t understand why it should and still don’t understand what Roy meant when he brought it up. I think he meant to diminish Favre’s situation by comparison but whatever.

    Do you guys honestly think if Starr had played a season or two somewhere else at the twilight of his career it would mean he was less of a Packer or a person? I don’t get why it should. Reggie White didn’t begin or end his career with us but he was a vital piece of the puzzle in our resurgence in the 90’s and always left it all on the field. Am I supposed to be bitter that he played his last season in Carolina? Why? I mean sure, we’d all prefer our superstar players began and ended their career in Green Bay but that is rare and will probably be more so in the future. If we start using who ended their career with the Pack as a dividing point we will have to pull a whole lot of plaques out of our Hall of Fame. Maybe you’re OK with that but I’m not.

    When I bet, I try to make sure I’m getting the best of it. This is the point of betting. I don’t make a habit of betting for or against the Packers but when I think the line is off one way or the other and believe I have a handle on who is going to win and why, I go with it. This is why in our last playoff games I cleaned up by betting against the Seahawks, who I thought we would tear up, but didn’t bet on the game against the Giants, who I thought we would beat but wasn’t certain enough to put money on it. (Thank God!)

    The point of wagering is to win money. I haven’t bet against the Packers very often (I prefer to just layoff) but if I have a strong feeling they’re going to lose and the line says otherwise (like the playoff loss to Minnesota) I will run with it. If that makes me less of a fan in your eyes, whatever. I’ve been going to Packer games since the 70’s, jack. When we lost the Super Bowl to Denver I was sick for a week. (Didn’t lose any money though as I knew we were favored by too much and couldn’t get anyone privately to take the Packers -7, which I was willing to give.)

    I don’t understand how you or some of the other potato heads on this board think you have the right to decide who is or isn’t a fan, or how much of one. But please don’t impugn my credibility as a Packer fan ever again.

  • packer_bob

    Punk Says:

    June 20th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
    packer_bob’s last posts: 1)”Guess I wasn’t a true Packer fan________.” 2)”I’ve bet against the Packers__________.” 3)”_________beware of men named Judas.” and then 4)when RoyJ said he was glad Starr ended career in GB p_b says: “Who would care if he hadn’t?” He has convinced me, guys, packer_bob is a GREAT Packer fan!

    This is the post I was referring to above.-PB

  • Jeff Smith

    Death of a hero indeed.
    When someone who rescued a franchise is treated the way Tsquared treated him, then all bets of fan judgement are off. If the pack thinks Brett truely is washed up, prove it by giving him some respect and relasing him – if he goes into the same division, so what, you need to beat him twice then. TT has a hidden ego that wouldn’t allow BLF or even Andrew Brandt (who interviewed for Murphys job) in the Packers orginization. Good work TT, your new contract negotiator pooched both popingas and grants contracts.
    Frankly TT pressured a quick decision. Then implied that Brett changed his mind so he’s not capable of being our qb. Meanwhile, AR is the 4th quarter chokemaster. To quote Colin Cowherd, the same team was one play away from the superbowl then went 6-10 the next year minus Brett. Tsquared, during the saga, changed his mind more than once – we want bret back as a backup (lie), err no, we think he should stay retired, err, no, we welcome him back if he will compete for the starting job (lie). So by his own standards TT should resign. Maybe free agents didn’t want to come to the Pack this year because if TT would abuse Brett, they could see the same or worse happening to themselves. TT has put together a team that over 5 years has a net losing record. I could do the same. TT made sure the saga went on and on last year so that Bret would have the least chance to succeed then traded him to a place with a completely new offense. The result? BLF outlpayed AR before the biceps injury with recieving corps that wouldn’t even crack the Packers’ top 3 WRs. Good work TT. I guess instead of optimizing talent and winning now, TTs master plan is to get rid of the best players and lose now. Lose Now with cap space, good plan TT.

  • Punk

    I have every right to decide who I think is a loyal fan and who isn’t. And in my opinion you are not, so what? Further, I’m not one of those who cares a whit where, when, or if Favre plays, again, so what? And you could be a very rich gambler……………….who cares and so what?

  • STMills

    Hey Guys,

    Check out this “HaterNet” website:

    http://tinyurl.com/HaterNet

  • packer_bob

    Well, I think you’re not a real fan. So there. (I’m sticking out my tongue.) Nyeah, Nyeah!

    What are you, 5 years old? You don’t even know me, so how the hell can you presume to know how much of a fan I am. That’s like me saying I have the right to think you’re a homosexual–I don’t.

  • packer_bob

    Funny, STMills, Funny!

  • JeffN

    STMills and PackerBob, who ever brought up hate? You guys did. That means it’s you that have an issue with hate not everyone else. You are the tiny contingent of fans who have hate issues. You might also want to understand that not everyone cares about you guys as much as you think they do and people are not going to listen to your old news and buy into your “everyone is a hater philosophy”.

  • JeffN

    PackerBob you admitted on this sight to that you bet against the Packers. A lot of Packer fans are going to reject you as a fan if you go around bragging about stuff like that. It’s common sense and it’s just how it is.

    You can’t bet against your team and then piss and mone when other fans don’t want you as a fan.

  • STMills

    “So we agree that his intentions are questionable.”

    Not at all.

    That something is a question of a person’s intent does not mean that the person’s intent is questionable.

    It means the person’s intent is an open question that must be ascertained.

    And a person’s intent can be ascertained solely by looking at what the person says and does (not by what emotionally challenged haters say).

    In this regard, what Favre has said and done all point to one thing: his return was motivated by a simple desire to play football, and not by “sticking it to the Packers”, as you foolishly claim.

    Once again, here is what Favre has said and done:

    He said it was not his intent to stick it to the Packers (fact). He said he just wanted to play football again (fact). And that’s what he’s done (fact). Play football (fact). He wanted to play for the Packers first (fact). But the Packers didn’t want him (fact). So the Packers traded him to the Jets (fact). He accepted the trade to the Jets (fact). And he played for the Jets (fact). That didn’t work out (fact). Now he is looking to play for the Vikings (fact).

    Based on these facts – what Favre has said and done – Favre simply wants to play football, whether it’s for the Packers (who didn’t want him), the Jets (who did want him), or the Vikings (who might want him).

    Indeed, if Favre’s return was motivated by an intent to “stick it to the Packers”, as you claim, why did he first seek to play for the Packers? He wanted to play for the team he wanted to stick it to?

    Your mind is so deranged from hatred you can’t even make sense.

  • packer_bob

    When did I call everyone a hater? I don’t believe I’ve said anything like that, except that I don’t get the level of vitriol directed at Favre and that he is free to do what he wants to do.

    Most of my posts with regards to Favre have been in defense of his time in Green Bay and they are almost always in direct response to something someone said. I don’t just bring it up to bring it up.

    I also have never been under the impression that anyone cares what I think or that I am going to change anyone’s mind. But this is a chat and opinion board, so one something says something I disagree with, I present my point of view. If you’re not interested, skip my posts.

    Also, please don’t lump me together with STMills. He has his points, I have mine. We are two separate people. It’s hard for me to take someone seriously that puts words in my mouth and lumps me together with someone else’s arguments.

  • packer_bob

    First of all, I wasn’t bragging when I said I have bet against the Packers, I was merely stating a fact.

    Secondly, being a fan and wagering for money are two different things. I wanted Ricky Hatton to beat Manny Pacquio, but knew Manny had a huge edge, and therefore bet on him but rooted for Hatton. What should I have done, bet on Hatton so I could be disappointed and broke too?

    I don’t habitually bet for or against the Packers, only in select cases where I believe I have a good edge. 90% of the time over the last 15 years or so this has been for the Packers, but I’d be lying if I didn’t say I have bet against them a few select times.
    That playoff loss to Minnesota is a good example. I felt I knew we were going to lose that game. When I feel I have that level of certainty, I bet it.

    I have been a fan of the Packers for over thirty years, have enough gear to open my own mini-proshop, have attended over thirty games home and away; I don’t give you or anyone else the right to tell me I’m not a fan and know you wouldn’t if this were a face to face conversation. If you boys aren’t intelligent enought to recognize the difference between who you cheer for and where the smart money goes, that’s your problem.

  • Punk

    Man, this is rich! packer_bob sticks his tongue out and I’m 5, just too many ha-has. Good to hear from you again ST(Jon)Mills. Thats quite a club you guys belong to. Anybody want to talk about the current Packers?

  • STMills

    Punk says: “Anybody want to talk about the current Packers?”

    Al and Kevin don’t, that’s why they put up the editorial you should have read above.

  • JeffN

    Well it’s more so your supporting poster STMills that speaks of hate, so sorry for the guilty by association factor. Still tho betting against the Packers is unacceptable to me any facet or circumstance. And all the the betting you speak of sounds like bragging to me.

  • packer_bob

    That’s called sarcasm, Punk. I post a fairly lengthy response to you to explain my point of view and your response is “not a real fan, who cares, blah blah.” That’s why Iasked if you were 5–your responses are infantile. I wasn’t literally sticking my tongue out either and am surprised I have to point that out.

    As STMills said, this entire thread is about Favre potentially joining the Vikings and how one guy feels about. (How about equal time, Al. You let someone voice your opinion for you by proxy, why not post an opposing view.) I have chimed in about the current Packers in many of the other threads and will again when one gets going.

  • packer_bob

    Oh, no, JeffN, it’s not bragging. My football betting is infrequent. It’s been profitable overall but far from anything to brag about. I have cited select examples to illustrate my larger point that being a fan is rooting for your team and wagering is making your best informed decision to show a profit.

    Going back to that Denver super bowl, for instance, I dodged a major bullet not by being smart (I would have lost major money to anyone who would give me the Packers straight up, I really thought we were going to win) but by being stingy about the point spread. I think the spread on that game was about 13 points and we had just issued a beat down to the 49ers on the road in the NFC championship game, which at the time I think many were considering the real Super Bowl. I just couldn’t bring myself to give up those points, which would have been easy to do if I got carried away with being a fan. I felt the true spread should have been 7-10 points and since I couldn’t find anybody to wager on Denver and take less than the real line I lost no money. I still was way wrong about the outcome of the game, as I’m sure we both remember all too well.

    I’ve had some real mistakes on both the Packers and other teams. I lost my ass on the 4th and 26 Philly game, although I still think I had the right idea and we should have won. I also lost on the Atlanta playoff loss, which in retrospect was a big blunder on my part. So don’t misunderstand–I was using certain examples to illustrate a point and not trying to make out like I’m some master gambler and never lose.

  • jake c

    get a life stmills, you complain about how we all drink teddy’s kool aid, maybe you should go post on a different forum. what a loser. we’re all wrong but you’re right.

    keep talking big and bad sitting at a computer.

  • STMills

    Favre already under contract with the Vikings?

    http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=1744&line=145352&spln=1

    jake,

    Calling me names only shows how pathetically incapable you are of responding substantively to my posts.

    Now go eat cake . . .

  • iccyfan

    STMills Says: “And a person’s intent can be ascertained solely by looking at what the person says and does. In this regard, what Favre has said and done all point to one thing: his return was motivated by a simple desire to play football, and not by “sticking it to the Packers.”

    Are you keeping a straight face as you spend hour after hour typing this drivel? Surely you jest. It’s not worth my time to issue individual rebuttals to your “points”, given that you never answered my simple Yes or No question. I’ve got to give props to you on the sheer entertainment front, as you’re hilarious!

  • STMills

    I’ve answered your question twice.

    You’re just too dense to notice.

  • STMills

    Jeff Smith has a good post above.

    Unfortunately it appears to have been lost amidst all the crap written by JeffN.

    Mr. Smith, though, makes many excellent points, such as:

    “Maybe free agents didn’t want to come to the Pack this year because if TT would abuse Brett, they could see the same or worse happening to themselves.”

    “TT has put together a team that over 5 years has a net losing record.”

    “TT made sure the saga went on and on last year so that Bret would have the least chance to succeed then traded him to a place with a completely new offense. The result? BF outlpayed AR before the biceps injury with recieving corps that wouldn’t even crack the Packers’ top 3 WRs.”

    “I guess instead of optimizing talent and winning now, TTs master plan is to get rid of the best players and lose now. Lose Now with cap space.”

    Good stuff, Jeff.

    They’re gonna hate you here.

  • packer_bob

    Getting back to the original essay from above, I just re-read it and still don’t get it.

    Let’s break it down:

    Along with the rest of the world, I bought into the hero worship of the the legendary Brett Favre. He was marketed as the ultimate competitor, the simple guy who just loves football and doesn’t let any of the hype go to his head.

    Not sure what hero worship means to Kevin Roth, but I feel most Packer fans were also huge Brett Favre fans. Speaking for myself, he was fun to watch, never missed a game and was a big time winner. Hero worship is way too strong a term for my feelings for the man, but huge fan would be accurate.

    Mr. Roth loses me a little bit with his next sentence. Does anyone not view Favre as a competitor or doubt that he loves football? The sentence implies that these adjectives were marketing and therefore not true but I still think they are bona fide. We could argue all day about whether or not hype and stardom have gone to Favre’s head. An assessment of this is completely subjective so I would argue we can’t know what’s inside the man’s head.

    To me Favre has always seemed low key, frank and about winning whenever I’ve heard him speak and that includes to this day. Of course the man has an ego. Most great athletes do. Remember when the Vicodin addiction broke and Favre said “Don’t bet against me.” That kind of statement recquires ego and since the statement itself occurred many years ago I would argue he’s probably always been that way rather than something “going to his head.”

  • packer_bob

    Well, the truth has come out and true character revealed. The same guy who criticized Javon Walker for not honoring his contract has now pulled a Terrel Owens to get himself in position to play for the team of his choosing. Favre appears to think that because of who he is, the rules do not apply and should be able to retire and unretire to play for whomever he wishes.

    I don’t get this. Did Favre somehow not honor his contract? The Javon Walker contract situation and his comments on it are not relevant unless you think he somehow wasn’t honoring his contract. The Walker situation was about money. If Brett was just about the money, it would have been far easier to take the marketing deal the Packers offered and just stay home.

    To the next point, Favre wanted to come back and play for the Packers last year and they said no. Both parties had to agree to the trade to the Jets and they did. What rules were broken? If you are referring to this past off-season, the Jets gave him his release. How are rules being broken or Favre above the rules?

  • packer_bob

    “Sorry to tell you Brett, but not everyone thinks that way. GM Ted Thompson made what I think is the right decision not to allow him to unretire and play for the Packers last season. At that point I did still respect Favre a great deal, but the constant “will he or won’t he play” game year after year was getting really old. I am sure Thompson was as sick of it as most people (if not more so) and finally said enough is enough. Good for Ted, one big question answered and let’s move on.”

    If you think TT made the right decision, fair enough. I agree the “will he/won’t he”
    drama was getting old but a counter argument could be made that he earned the right to think it over each season. I also believe that had TT really wanted Favre back and been proactive about it, most of this could have been avoided.

  • packer_bob

    “The truth is that regardless of Favre ever becomes a Viking or if he decides to hang it up for real this time, the damage has already been done. Favre’s selfishness and huge ego has been revealed and there is no going back now. My hero has died. I have gone through 4 of the 5 stages of grief (minus acceptance). The only difference between this situation and an actual death is that instead of my being able to grieve the loss and move on, Favre keeps coming back to haunt us. It is so hard to move on from this though when it just won’t go away.”

    A person can feel anyway they want about the situation, I suppose. However, I don’t understand why Favre wanting to continue to play football makes him selfish. It’s his life and he should do what he wants with it. The ego thing I feel I’ve already covered–he has one as all of the great ones do.

  • Michael Legat

    Zzzzzz…..

  • packer_bob

    “I suppose this whole debacle has helped me learn a lesson. There are no true role models in professional sports, and when you think you’ve found one they will disappoint you. Professional athletes are just people like everyone else, and make mistakes just like everyone else.”

    I agree, if you are looking at people who throw and kick a ball around for a living to be your role models, you are probably looking in the wrong place.

    However, let’s list a few of the qualities one can associate with Favre.

    1. Competive/Driven. The man had one losing season while here. Never missed a start. Played through pain and family strife.

    2. Perseverence. All time record for consecutive starts at his position, will be all time leader at any position with 2 more starts. In addition to luck, the man has worked hard to keep himself in shape or it wouldn’t have happened. My understanding is he worked hard to keep himself mentally sharp by reviewing films/gameplans of opponents etc.

    3.Loyalty. Several years ago, Deanna was to the point of leaving him. He changed his ways and has kept his family together.

    4.Fearless. This quality has led to us all banging our heads on the wall from time but you can’t say the man is afraid to take risks. Included in this is leaving the Packers, perhaps the biggest risk of all.

    5.Love of the game. The reason Favre has so many fans that aren’t even Packer fans is in part due to the obvious joy he brings to playing the game. I’ve talked to many Bear fans that are closet Favre fans. Don’t we all wish we could bring that level of enthusiasm to what we do for a living.

    I could keep going but surely you get the point. None of us are without flaws but I think as this partial list shows, certainly we can all agree that Favre possesses role model worthy qualities. I think if you can get past your initial disappointment, you should be able to recognize this. Your years as a Favre fan were not in vain.

  • STMills

    It’s real simple:

    Jim Ringo
    Jim Taylor
    Paul Hornung
    Forrest Gregg
    Herb Adderley
    Vince Lombardi
    Mike Holmgren
    Reggie White
    Brett Favre

    All “tainted legacies”.

  • packer_bob

    Ignore it if you want, Michael. I don’t have anything better to do right now and wanted to bring the conversation back to the original post rather than participate in all the name calling.

  • JeffN

    Wow that’s a lot of boring. Can we put a post limit per forum and a limit to the size of the post.

  • packer_bob

    Skip it then.

  • Matt Hayton

    Wow…haven’t been around for a while…looks like the SOS to me. Here’s my take- If Favre were Randall Cunningham or Vinny Testaverde or Warren Moon, etc., no one would care, but for some crazy reason because he’s Brett Favre, he’s a traitor, everyone hates his guts on the one side and on the other side there’s the, “he just wants to play football” purist BS. The fact is Brett doesn’t give a shit what you, me or anyone else thinks… Fact: He does just want to play football and it just so happens it is with the arch-rival Viqueens, which makes him the arch-enemy as soon as he steps on the football field, along w/AP and all the other chumps they’ve got over there.. And there isn’t a damn thing that anyone of us can do about it. So let’s move on.

  • iccyfan

    “And there isn’t a damn thing that anyone of us can do about it. So let’s move on.”

    Alright then! Sideshow_Bob thinks BF is akin to John Wayne and I feel he’s more like this star of the big and small screens. TV & Movies for $300, Alex – What character’s signature line is, “Whateva, Whateva, I’ll do what I want!”

  • Roy Jamison

    PackerBob, my point was if Bart hadn’t ended his career in GB, this site would still be talking about it.

  • JeffN

    Hayton, I totally agree with it’s time to move on. Some of the guys posting here can’t move on. Rodgers is the QB in Green Bay let’s be happy we have someone of his high calibur to move on with.

  • Rocky70

    @ PB

    Yea, yea we know. BF is a an eagle scout.
    Boy do you need some counseling & quick. Your obsession with an individual you’ve never met or talked too is alarming.

    It’s near impossible to move on with viking_bob posting his ‘soon to be released’ novel entitled – “It Moves Everytime I Think Of Brett”.

  • STMills

    Can someone please help me? I am told only one of the following has a tainted legacy, but I can’t for the life of me figure it out. Most of these former Packers left for other teams because Green Bay didn’t want them anymore, however some – Vince Lombardi and Mike Holmgren come to mind – left because they wanted to. Hmm. I just can’t figure it out . . .

    Jim Ringo
    Jim Taylor
    Paul Hornung
    Forrest Gregg
    Herb Adderley
    Vince Lombardi
    Mike Holmgren
    Reggie White
    Brett Favre

  • Roy Jamison

    And wasn’t James Lofton run out of town? That was a good move.

  • jackson

    8th grade little girls, most of you..grow up and quit the back stabbing, name calling, BS, unless you like to be called 8th grade little girls…….now that is name calling. By the way, i nailed iccy’s partner this weekend and IT was good. word!

  • JeffN

    StMills says, “can someone please help me?”

    I would agree you need lot’s of help!!!

  • JeffN

    STMills says, “I just can’t figure it out”

    NO KIDDING!!!

  • Michael Legat

    Right, Mills, like you’re worth debating anymore. Go hump a knot in a tree.

  • packer_bob

    Rocky70,

    It seems every time I read one of your posts you’re taking potshots at Favre or me, so who’s obsessed again?

    For those of you that want to move on, blame your host. He’s the one that started that this shit again through a mouthpiece. I’m merely commenting.

  • Roy Jamison

    Lynn Dickey and Randy Wright retired as Packers too. Don’t think they played 16 years in one town however.

  • iccyfan

    jackson Says: “By the way, i nailed iccy’s partner this weekend and IT was good.”

    I live in a very liberal city where use of the word “partner” in this context is generally a euphemism for same-sex coupling. I believe jackson (= paul the pretend psychiatrist) just suffered a freudian slip. :)

  • JeffN

    PackerBob, I do agree Al and now his stand in do keep bringing this stuff up. It’s going to be a topic as long as those guys talk about it.

  • JeffN

    Although moving on has nothing to do with the topic coming up. To me moving on is just accepting the fact that Favre is going to do whatever he wants and there is nothing any of us can do about. So basically accepting the situation and not being pissed off about it is moving on to me.

  • RayL

    For the BF haters. You disgust me. You all actually want to see #4 get injured by a Packer player…you all are acting like Bears or Steeler fans….it’s absolutely repulsive. I have lost much respect for (some) packer fans. If the shoe fits – wear it…you know who you are.

  • RayL

    TT is the devil here…..he started this cancer in GB and things will never be good in GB until he is gone…..