Free agents and other thoughts

I know I’m late to the party but I’m going to give you my take anyway. After a much needed break I’m back and ready for action, even if we may only have a few more days to talk about football before the lockout begins.

Here is a quick take on the Packers’ free agents:

Safety Atari Bigby: The Packers have no use for Bigby any longer. He is as good as gone.

Guard Daryn Colledge: This guy gets no respect. Every year they try to replace him and every years he wins the job by getting better. I would hate to see him go if only for the continuity of the line. College, center Scott Wells and right guard Josh Sitton have given the line stability over the last year-and-a-half. Something that was severely lacking in the three previous years.

The problem with Colledge is he is sure to get a decent offer from another team, how high will the Packers go?

Running backs Brandon Jackson, John Kuhn and Korey Hall: The emergence of James Starks to go along with Ryan Grant I think means the end of special teams ace Hall. I really want to see Jackson back in that 32 jersey he so loves. He is invaluable on third down and what he offers the offense is more than what Hall offers special teams.

I can’t see Kuhn going anywhere, that should be an easy deal. Kuhn is a perfect fit here and I don’t see many teams that could get out of him what the Packers do. He would be a fool not to take whatever the Packers offer him.

Defensive end Cullen Jenkins: Jenkins is the new Favre – all upset because the Packers have fallen behind on their “I love you’s.” So sad. I can’t see Jenkins coming back with all the crying he’s done, it was a borderline distraction the whole second half of the season. Combine that with the fact he is always hurt and the expected emergence of Mike Neal and it’s don’t let the door hit you on the butt, Cullen.

Wide receiver James Jones: This is a tough one, he is the classic case of a guy who has enough talent to come back and haunt you if he leaves, but he also makes the mind boggling mistakes that drive you nuts. Somebody will probably pay him more than the Packers are willing to and my guess is that team is Chicago.

Safeties Charlie Peprah and Anthony Smith: The Packers have no use for Smith, But I would love to see Peprah back. The job opposite Nick Collins will likely be a training camp battle again, but this time Peprah will be the front runner instead of the underdog.

Lineman Jason Spitz: Failed in his only appearance last year, I doubt he is offered a contract.

Linebacker Matt Wilhelm, tight end Spencer Havner and wide receiver Brett Swain: Wilhem and Havner are for sure gone, Swain might have a chance to stick but his big drop in the Super Bowl didn’t help him any.

The sad thing is all this talk is probably moot. The owners and players are so far apart I think the upcoming lockout will last until September at the earliest because it more than likely is headed to the courtroom. I believe Dee Smith is going to go down in history as the man who shot the golden goose. This is about to get ugly.

Hopefully I’m wrong and we can get back to business as usual. They need some of the new positive Packernet karma. Give me a call Rodger…

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  • Erick

    Smith is a moron. Anyone who comes out before negotiations even begin and proclaim it’s a war… The players are poorly represented by him, to say the least. Ya, gotta bite my tongue on this genius. Oh, well – I’m on the side of the owners, anyway.

    • http://Orlando Mark

      I’m sure Raider’s owner Davis and Redskin’s Snyder can use that extra $30 million a year. After all they’re risking much more than their health like the players do. Maybe Snyder will be able to stop charging the fans to watch practices. I think everyones main concern should be how the 18 game schedule will affect the owners bottom line. Maybe they’ll get a bigger tax break on player depreciation. Talk is cheap, giving away other people’s wages is even cheaper. Give your own wages away, that will show you’re on the owners side. I’m sure your owner would appreciate it. By the way do you have to call him “Massa” when you’re at work.

      • Rick

        Giving away other people’s wages?? NO PLAYER IS GIVING UP HIS CONTRACT PAY!!

        They are arguing over the cap number ceiling and floor. The percentage. Not any of the current contracts. The owner’s see the tipping point sliding from to profit to no profit. They will not let it happen.

        What are you talking about “Massa”? That talk is just ignorant. I can see you are upset Mark but I believe it has clouded your thoughts.

        I do give my wages away when I buy GB gear and tickets and $8 beers. Sorry that I happen to like the dang team Mark.

        • http://Orlando Mark

          So do I Rick. You’re right my judgement may be off. But I don’t see how anyone can take either side. If we’re upset at the players making millions we can be even more upset at the owners making 10’s of millions. BTW I thought the players were being asked to take a 20% cut in pay or benefits.

          • Rick

            Nope. A roll back on the max cap ceiling and floor.

            The 1 billion off the top means about a $30 million roll back to each team. The Packer made a $5 million profit in the last cap year and we were $20 million below the cap so GB was dancing on the edge a little between competitive team salary and a profit.

            If the roll back was $30 million then GB would have been $10 million over cap so you see that players especially early 1st round salaries getting slotted would allow the team to adjust accordingly and still be profitable and still close to maxing cap space which is good news for players as the veterans benefit from a competitive marketplace bidding for their services and not tied up in unproven 1st round talent.

            GB in this scenerio would have had to cut 10 million on salary and would have generated a profit of $15 million while maxing out the cap.

            Generally a win win as the owners are upgrading facilities and making the game even bigger(and taking bigger debts). I read in a commericial real estate magazine that Dallas stadium pays $5 million in property taxes alone and is rumored to pay almost $7.5 million in mortgage payments per year.

  • http://www.scotrstone.com Scot

    If the union decertifies, then Smith won’t be representing the players anymore. That’s one good thing. I’v never believed in Smith’s abilities. Plan on a lockout, my friends. It’s coming. There will be no mini-camps, there will be no signing of players or rookies until it’s over, then it’s going to be a mad scramble when it is, most likely in August or September, when the owners will start to get their way. Unfortunately, again, it’s the fans who suffer. And if there is no football in 2011, then that’s a huge shame. I want Green Bay to repeat!

    • Rick

      Smith is back in charge when the union recertifies.

  • Rick

    Green Bay is in a good position to handle this.
    We have stability in that GB has no real coaching changes. The front office is stable and will be paid. So minimal disharmony there.

    Also as a public team we already showed the financial books to everybody. It was not great but still a profit was earned.

    With the numberof rehab IR players coming back to fight for roster spots. Newly drafted player and FA signings are not a big part of this teams make up.

  • Cody

    Am I the only one who feels that we need Cullen Jenkins back? Sure he battled through injuries, but he was an extremely valuable member of our defensive line that was totally riddled with injuries. To simply say that Mike Neal will take his place is absurd. He was on IR in his first season, at least Jenkins stayed healthy enough to play.
    Jenkins was one of the best linemen that we had last season, to let him go would be a mistake. Neal may turn out to be good, but you can’t bank on that. Never let a proven player leave if you only have an unproven talent to replace him!

    • Rick

      I think many of us agree with you Cody. If Jenkins can be resigned at an affordable number we would love to keep him in Green and Gold

      • http://www.scotrstone.com Scot

        But that won’t happen, so Jenkins will walk. I assume Jolly will be back, though. So between Jolly and Neal on passing downs, and Green and, Raji and Pickett on running downs, we will be okay. Plus, who knows who we will draft and CJ Wilson and Jarius Wynn are still developing.

        • stcroixPacker

          I think we would all like Jenkins back, but he can make more money for another team so he will. We don’t have tremendous holes in the D-line like many other teams and we run a 3-4 not a 4-3. Some other team will pony up bigger bucks and we will get a 4th rounder next year as compensation.

    • Reid

      I trust whatever TT does with Jenkins. His track record of letting “proven veterans” go at the right time speaks for itself: Bubba Franks, Kampman, Al Harris, Rivera, and that one guy who played QB (haha) to name a few.

    • Jeff

      Did you think Peprah would be anything? Did you think Desmond Bishop would be anything ? I did , I was saying for 3 years that Bishop is a hitter and he needed to start.
      Cullen Jenkins was great for us but he misses many games with injuries.
      Nobody had any faith in Tramon Williams either but I did , he showed in spots in 2008 and 2009 of having a nose for the ball and I stated here in the summer that he would have a breakthrough year and he did.
      Jenkins is good but the defense will continue to get better if he is here or not. people talk about Jolly and Neal , dont count out this Jarius Wynn , in the time he has played he has pressured the quarterback.
      Let’s not forget that Jolly was a big playmaker in 2009 and made many tackles behind the line.
      People here actually thought BJ Raji was a lazy player and noy may had faith in him.
      I also remember in 2006 the fans wanted Nick Collins benched for Aaron Rouse , gee , that would have been great .
      Listen people , we won a super bowl with many many injuries , just trust them to keep the players we need.

  • Larry

    In the end…a rookie wage scale will reallocate dollars to veterans. To the extent that a cap emerges from the new CBA..older player will eventually be replaced by younger (cheaper) players. As to whether contracts go up or down is determined by individual negotiation against peers. Whatever Brady gets will be exceeded by $1 by Manning until he too is shown the door a few years out.

    The great money equalizer is the 18 game schedule…but if I’m a player, I’m not in favor. You can only ride this gravy train if healthy and as it stands too many issues occur daily with retired vets and many player 12 or 14 game schedules a year. Not to say that this is mgmt fault…each year they came back to play for the honor, glory, team or MONEY.

    As the Joker asked,,,”have you ever danced with the devil in the moonlight”?

  • mel e mel

    Take a look at Jerry World, and ask if the owners really need more money. This is a lockout not a strike. This is about the Jerry Richardsons, and Wayne Weavers who dont deserve a team anyway. They cant draw flies, not the players fault. Anyway The lockout really hurts teams who are putting in new systems. Meaning it really hurts teams like the Lions and Vikes. settle it b4 the vikes can install a new scheme I would enjoy that

  • Rick

    Judge Doty strikes again. He ruled that the Owner’s can not use the TV contract as lockout survival money since it was . That means once the NFLPA decertifies on Thursday before the CBA expires that the players will win the anti-trust suites if a lock out is initiated on Friday. And at triple pay loss.

    This is about to get ugly for all involved. I hope they “freeze” the deadline so they can both negotiate.

  • iccyfan

    “Lockout’11: Business as usual for Packers” – by Kevin Seifort
    I’ve been reading this guy’s NFC North Blog all season long as linked from this site, and I’m sorry, but ESPN should be looking for someone better to cover what has become the best division in football. Today’s article is about other teams following the Packer’s “draft & develop” method this off-season BECAUSE of the upcoming lock-out. Uh, Kevin – it took TT & MM six years of “draft and develop” to build this squad – it’s not an overnight fix to be implemented for instant competitiveness. Damn, my HS Junior could write an NFC North Blog with more insightful commentary…

    Ok, now I’ve got that out of my system! I’m likely biased because I don’t like Mr. Seifort’s view of the division thru Viking colored glasses!

    • Reid

      Amen.

    • Rick

      So sayth iccy, so sayth the lord. Seifort is a ” Viking Homer”

      Why do I feel like a eating donut all of a sudden….

  • iccyfan

    Hawk released with the caveat “we hope we can continue to work with A.J.” Did they have to formally release him or could they have reworked his contract without having to do so? Is he receptive to having his rookie contract reworked? I expect we’ll learn the answer to these questions in subsequent articles as the scribes come up to speed on the issue. Here’s hoping they can work this out…

    • http://Orlando Mark

      Hawk did a good job when injuries allowed him to play more minutes. But both sides have to give this more thought. I believe he’s better suited to MLB in a 4-3. The Pack has other players who can play ILB who cost less and it’s a position that’s not as valuable. I hope he comes back but TT is strictly business when it comes to high priced players.

      • http://www.scotrstone.com Scot

        Maybe TT likes Barnett better. But can Barnett stay healthy? Hawk at least could do that.

        • http://Orlando Mark

          I don’t like Barnett better but it’s a cost/benefit judgement. It also might be Caper’s call as to what’s more valuable.

  • http://Orlando Mark

    Funny article about the top 20 biggest draft busts in NFP. The FSU DE’s ought to be given the lifetime award for worst draft position by a single school.

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

    First major move a good one. Simply put, Hawk/Bishop played out better than Hawk/Barnett did or Barnett/Bishop could IMO. Retain the Lombardi, step one.

  • Larry

    Since all three “starters” are signed will we see a trade of Barnett once the CBA is signed? He certainly has some value.

    • http://www.scotrstone.com Scot

      So trade Barnett and then draft Casey Matthews to back them up?

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

    Ooooh, I think four. Brad Jones beat out Poppinga, and while you might not think that was much, he was a rookie and had the speed to have four sacks. I like a guy with double majors and a second degree coming in Astrophysics. A must for playing out in space…….!

    • Rick

      Okay. I am anal sometimes about players and draft stuff but that is frightening knowledge for you to have and know LT. LOL

      I may have to warn the authorities about you….. :)

  • Larry

    Such an odyssey from LT….

    • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

      Geez, I can’t say I didn’t ask for that guys……….! Just couldn’t resist.

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

    Really have been very apprehensive, since the SB, on how we will keep the team as together as possible. This is a very good start and Barnett/Chillar would be gravy if the numbers were right. You guys know I look more at units than individual players and this signing keeps that unit intact. Huge, in my way of thinking.

    Now, on to the OL, and yes, I wan’t Colledge back. Spitz maybe not so much and Lang has to settle in on one spot and concentrate. Newhouse, McDonald, and -Smith have yet to prove themselves, Colledge has. Other than Tausch the group was effective because they stayed together as a unit – a lot different than ’07 wasn’t it?

    • http://Orlando Mark

      Yes, and ’09(they wanted to get rid of Wells) and ’10(we lost our tackles).

      • http://Orlando Mark

        Sorry, screwed up the years. Meant ’08 and ’09.

    • Rick

      Much different now LT. A lot of the reason the team managed to win is still here with the team, the units and coaching staff both.

      But we can not be to full of our selves as a team. The bounce of a football is not always smooth.

      If the Eagles had not defeated the Giants on the run back, GB would have been SOL and not in control of their destiny to make the playoffs. Deshawn Jackson should get an honorable mention or a ring with fake jewels :)

      • http://Orlando Mark

        He also helped by catching only 2 passes in the playoff, so the fake ring can have an oak leaf cluster.

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

    Hell, I don’t discount the luck factor one bit – the bounce of the ball, (like into Bush’s leg), and an OG running back a kick for 70 yds, etc. I realize there are about eight out of thirty-two teams each year that could win it all. Somebody said, “Its harder to repeat than to win it.”

  • Larry

    I like the Packers chances in 2011, as do most here. I think the labor issue helps GB recover from the 20 game season. It may help in extending the recovery time for IR players and since there is little change in the coaching staff personnel, they’re not incumbered with teaching new systems with new personnel. In addition, although there can be no official business except the draft, you can bet that other teams will be calling to inquire about GB veteran players once the draft is finished, allowing TT, MM and company to maximize value.

    And like mentioned in a recent article, GB had the advantage of more games and practices than any team…essentially going into the off-season at the highest level of conditioning.

    Lastly, Findley and Grant are upgrades over Lee and Kuhn. Arguments can be made that the other injured starters were replaced with equal (Bishop/Barnett…Baluga/Tauscher…Jones/Zombo) value but these two add greater value.

    • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

      Consider this: Out of the box? Starks 6-2 218 @ RB and Grant 6-1 222 @ FB. Strange but compare to Hornung and Taylor. PH 6-2 215 and JT 6-2 218; forgive the trip to the past, but other than the fact that maybe Taylor was a little bit more elusive than Grant, Grant is a faster runner. This solves your problem with K000000n unless you want to go with the 2-pack senario so many teams favor now. Then you need Kuhn.

      • Rick

        RB Grant, Starks, Brandon Jackson Nance we will try to Practice Squad

        FB Hall, Kuhn Bye Quinn “knock down my own guys on ST” Johnson

        I like your thought on getting both Grant and Starks on the field but I am not sure if Grant is a good run blocker in that role. Might be fun to see in camp and preseason how it looks.

      • Steve Cheez

        Wasn’t 218 a lot bigger in the 60s?

  • Rick

    My preference early in the draft is DLine to help counter Cullen Jenkins departure. But looking at the players available where GB will draft I see some stud Special Team CBs from Texas on our radar.

    Guys that can challenge Lee and “Stripper”wood at CB and provide coverage speed and pop in the ST. Maybe take them in the first round or two.

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

    Your Honor, if I may speak for the Defense; we want Jenkins next year and will find a way to work it into the salary structure. We have enough Lees and Martins that we can release to make it happen. C’mon this is not a case where a new guy can step in and be as good or better than what we have; Cullen is better than the rest of those guys, including Pickett and Greene. Cullen is also a three-down guy and will be fully healed. He is only 30, give him another contract. Why take a chance on the new guy (whomever) as opposed to somebody we know can do the job.

    • Rick

      LOL @ your honor comment.

      I figured with the Hawk resigning that we would have heard something on Jenkins to lock him up.

      No offer was made to sign him before March 3rd. That normally means we will let him him hit FA and see what the market is for a 3-4 DE 4-3 DT with a powerful presence. Maybe GB will be in the mix.

      • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

        Yeah, I’m afraid you’re right. I started out thinking that he would be over pricing himself like Corey Williams but now I’m not so sure he is not worth it if you think he is in that 4-6 range. Maybe I have him overrated, but gee, he sure looked good to me last year considering what he played through. A real warrior.

        • Rick

          A definate warrior. With Pickett down we really needed him out there as much as he could and it wore him down. He and Raji took way to many snaps last year but they held up.

          However would a team sign him at 30 when they could draft a 22-23 yr old? What about him getting 4-7 million per year versus 800k to 2 million depending on when you drafted the youngin?

          He may be back.

          I could see a team that has a solid team that needs line help being the best place for him. Other than GB I don’t know of a team that is ” one piece away” and just needs a 30 year old solid veteran Dlineman.

        • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

          I think each team would address his signing differently. For the top eight, like us, he might be that “missing link” that a rook could not fill. Think of us putting in a newbie and learning all the signals Hawk is barking out – can you learn that in one camp? The next tier of sixteen teams shy away because the expenditure doesn’t put them in the top eight, so they try to improve on the cheap. The bottom eight go draft all the way because they are rebuilding in place with some really starting all over from nothing. It would appear to me that if we let him walk we suddenly have a need and would be depending on one of our unproven guys to fill. With both him and Green Capers can go 4-3 on 1st down a lot. The real unknown here is Jolly and its sad that all his records are deleted until reinstatement, but to my recollection he looked very good as a replacement for Williams when he left.

        • Rick

          Jolly did look good but he is a year away from football.

          About Jenkins and playoffish teams
          Jenkins is a fit for GB.
          Not a need for Pitts
          Not a need for Jets
          Maybe a need for Bears but there are going to be near whatever cap goes in place.
          Maybe the Colts but he is not their type of Dlineman they like small and quick
          Not a need for Falcons
          Maybe for the Seahawks but not quite their type of Dline player
          Maybe for Saints but they are cap heavy too
          Not a need for Ravens
          A needs for Patriots but they will not overpay
          Maybe a need for Chargers

          Can you think of any others?

          • http://www.scotrstone.com Scot

            If Carolina drafts a quarterback, I would not be surprised to see them pick him up.

          • Rick

            They can use a good player like Jenkins; but with a two year maybe three of rebuilding I don’t see them laying out the cash when they can develop younger talent for less money.

  • Jeff

    I am sorry m but anyone who thinks the Lagoe thing is going to September is insane ! This will be done in March , neither side is going to give up all of this money.
    I said in December the Packers were going to the Super Bowl , I also told you that if the Packers did not commit turnovers in Atlanta, the Falcons could not beat us because we are the more talented team. better take be serious when I tell you that the labor thing will be settled this month.

    • Jeff

      typo : labor thing

  • Jeff

    If James Jones was to go to the Bears , he will never be heard from again because he will never have any type of year with that loser Cutler.
    The first drop Jones has Curler will come apart and quit.

    • Rick

      Jones is a possible pick up for the Bears but they really need a #1 WR and they have a bunch of #2s. Jones is a number 2 as well and Cutler plays like #2 LOL

  • Larry

    I think CJ Wilson is viewed as a Jenkins “clone” although not as polished yet but younger. (He needs to play) The problem of course is you have 5 starters chasing 3 spots…Raji, Pickett, Jolly, Neal, Jenkins..with CJ Wilson in the wings. Is Jenkins worth 3 to 4 M more than Neal, Wilson, Jolly….and the money saved can be used for the big payday Raji has coming 2012.

    DE will be drafted…seems like we always get one…I think Neal can get 7 sacks, move inside in a 4 man front and push the pocket as well as Jenkins…IMO.

    About 30 years old…same as Barnett….Is there a trend here?

    • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

      Maybe only 25lbs lighter, but unproven 1 year guy who platoons only so far except for the injury start. Why do you want to break up starting units on a championship team? Why take that risk? Look at me, not concentrating on the $$ for a change. Its only because we are there now, at the top. I’ll save money and experiment with other combos after I’m knocked out of the catbird seat or have injuries – till then I keep the team together. (Good manners dictate you take the girl you brought to the dance home)

    • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

      BTW I, for one, think your logic is sound. I just think he is better than the rest, hence the big bucks and the view of the team has to be different looking down than up. It hasn’t been proven, yet, that we cannot absorb that little cap space we have (old rules) in retention. New CBA could change everything, as we all know. Until then, keep it together guys.

    • Rick

      So GB lets him see how in love or out of love the league is with him and we see if it makes sense to throw our hat in the ring depending on his interest.

      He wants a payday but I am not sure it is as good as a market as he hopes.

      Or TT, MM, and Capers have decided that he can walk if he wants; they have the talent to replace him on the team. In which case only if he is affordable does Jenkins stay.

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

    Seems like six of one and half a dozen of the other. By not settling before the draft his stock (worth) goes down because the execellent class of DEs (GB probably included). On the other hand not all teams will have solved their DE problems. I could not answer Rick’s earlier querry as to who has a need and would be willing to pay for what he undoubtedly wants. That being the case it would seem to me that he has to decide if he wants to stay with a winner or move solely for a couple of bucks more (assuming he will get a better offer). I guess we are all agreed we want him, but for our $$ amount, not his. From what I gather in other articles I’ve read he is not real happy about the way he is being left dangling.

    • Rick

      An informed source of mine has said that the talk is that with 17 games missed and 3 aggrevated calf injuries in the last 3 years , GB is not looking at resigning Jenkins.

      The talks terminated about another extension this last season when his demands were to high and the future CBA in flux. He then reinjured his calf for the 3rd time.

      Jenkins will get to play elsewhere there is no doubt. It is sad to see him go but maybe it is the best for all involved. He was not going to get the payday with GB, maybe he can get it elsewhere.

      • Rick

        I hope that really means, unless Jenkins is willing to take less pay to play for a second championship.

        • Jeff

          Don’t forget about Hward Green , this guy got pressure on the QB everytime he was in there and his pressure in the superbowl allowed Collins to get that interception , he is also a run stuffer as he shows against the Jets who were one of the best running teams in the league.
          I do not think there are many teams that could do anything against a line of Pickett , Raji , and Green and they would be kept fresh by Jolly and Neal.

        • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

          Green a run stopper only in the sense that he takes up a lot of running space. Compare his stats to any of the others and he will be the first cut. Lets not overrate the guy on one play or one game. If you’re worried about Jenkins being 30 then consider Greens age at 32. He has never been a starter and was out of football for two years. Frankly, I think he is gone whether Jenkins stays or not, especially if Harrell, Jolly, Neal, Wilson, Wynn and a draftee or two come to camp.

        • dave76

          LT, I’ll agree with your last 3 players and a draftee, but don’t compare Harrell and Jollys stats to Greens. IMO, Harrell is gone for sure, his injuries are unfortunate but a reality that his opportunity for making this team may have run out.

          Jolly is a talented player with a lot of psychological issues, that’s why he was behind bars last season for drugs. He needs to straighten out mentally before he can get back on a football field. Egomaniacs such as Owens, Ochowhatever and Moss are difficult to deal with, but at least they are on the field producing.

          IMO, I like the chances for Neal, Wilson, Wynn or a draft pick better. It will be fun to watch what TT and MM arrange for the D-line in 2011. I do really like all the options we have for Dom to work with on D.

      • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

        OK, dave, agree-agree-agree. But______as helpful as Green MIGHT have been I think he was overrated by most because he just looked so damned good out there when we were so desparate. To wit; he was here for 13 games and had 5 tackles and 2 assists. He didn’t dress for PHI and tho he was the starter for ATL-CHI-PIT that was a technicallity since he had neither a tackle nor assist in the entire playoffs. Nor did he have any sacks obviously.
        My comment was only based on the fact that he seemed a hell of a lot better than he really was! As far as Harrell goes I sure cannot defend him, but he has never been beaten other than by injury. Like those who have an inflated picture of Green, mine is of Harrell playing the hell out of his counterpart on the TITANS, Haynesworth. In his only good game in my memory he was in the TEN backfield all day. Such wasted potential.

        • Rick

          Now you are thinking like a GM.

          In Capers system did Green execute his assignment but get no states for his in the trenchs work or did he just occupy space in obvious run denial plays.

          That is the answer on stay or go with Green. He was the best available and as long as GB played from a lead we could take away the run with a Jumbo Dline and make the opponent by one dimensional by just passing. It worked well since GB won the SB.

          But if GB had to have played one more game with Driver, Woodson, and Shields unable to play. Green would have been a defensive liability since he is a one trick pony and a secondary with Lee and Underwood on the field just plain sucks.

    • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

      You know, I’m beginning to re-evaluate and take more consideration of both Larry and Ricks points re Jenkins. On the one hand I think he is a better player than those behind him, but what good is that if you are not on the field?
      I only want to pay him the big bucks if he is a three down guy, not a platoon role. A role player is a lot different than an every down guy. Not sure about the impact of playoff season money anymore. Obviously it means a lot more to a guy making less than 1Mil than more.

  • Rick

    Did you guys see and hear the sad story of the Michigan High Schooler’s winning shot and then tragic death? My wife was in tears. We just got done watching our kids play for a regional championship and it really hit home with us. My sympathies to his family.

  • Larry

    I saw it on the news….any kid dying is a heartbreak!..our school district has lost 5 the last 3 years in auto accidents!

    • dave76

      I saw it also on the news. How tragic it was for all the family and those who witnessed it. Another reminder to always cherish every moment you can with your children and spouse, because we never know when we may be called home. My thoughts and prayers are with the family.

    • Rick

      Oh my Larry that is so horrible.

  • iccyfan

    “Wide receiver James Jones: This is a tough one, he is the classic case of a guy who has enough talent to come back and haunt you if he leaves, but he also makes the mind boggling mistakes that drive you nuts. Somebody will probably pay him more than the Packers are willing to and my guess is that team is Chicago.”

    So the Packers did “tender” him after all; report doesn’t say at what level but probably a second-round. Smart move, as would be expected from Teddy.

    I’m OK with this at both ends of the spectrum. If they get him back at reasonable money – Good. If they lose him, draft Greg Little of North Carolina at the end of the second round to replace him. Greg Little is big (6’3 – 220+) and had a pretty good combine (4.51, 40+ vertical, 27 reps, good cones). He also played some RB and returned some kicks – Ted like versatility! He’s one of those many NC players who were suspended last season so he’s kinda off the radar of the national media…

    Other WR’s I wouldn’t mind seeing in Green & Gold – Austin Pettis of BSU (all he does is score TD’s) or Jeff Maehl of Oregon (goofy-looking gamer).

    The ball is in JJ’s court…

    • Rick

      I may be incorrect but he can not sign the tender until a CBA is agreed upon now. He had until the 3rd but let that slip by.

      Interesting WR selections Iccy.

      Little is a character concern guy that normally GB stays away from. But if they felt he was like Shields and it is not a reoccuring personality and baggage issue then I could see if GB a traded down from the #64 and had an extra mid 3rd round pick to use or an excellent value pick if he made it to #96.

      Maehl is very interesting. I see a Donald Driver type guy. Runs a 4.62 but cuts and runs lights out on 3 cone etc. Great film though against softer PAC 10 secondaries. Not afraid to go over the middle and always seems to catch the ball.
      Was a 7th rounder or UDFA before combine but probably will be a 6th or 7th round pick by any team looking for a solid route runner. He will have to learn to play ST though.

      Pettis is a great Boise State WR but I just don’t see or feel him as a Packer. He does not have great film against quality Defenses. Played in a fun and gun system which blew up his numbers.
      We have Swain as our developmental WR and Swain already knows how to play ST.

      • iccyfan

        Little, a senior from Durham, N.C., was North Carolina’s leading receiver in 2009, recording 62 catches for 724 yards and five touchdowns.

        *** Greg Little Statement:

        “One of my greatest accomplishments was receiving a scholarship to the University of North Carolina. Representing the University was a true honor and I am so appreciative of Coach Davis and his staff for giving me the opportunity to achieve my dream of playing for North Carolina. I want to apologize first to my teammates, coaches, and the support staff for letting them down. To the community of Chapel Hill, students, alumni, and supporters of the University, I am terribly remorseful.

        “The recent decision from the NCAA regarding my eligibility as a collegiate athlete is extremely painful, and has been a distraction from the team throughout the past five months. My situation should not take away from any of the team’s current accomplishments or future accomplishments. Now that I am no longer a part of the program, I hope my actions will not distract the team any longer.

        “For the remainder of this semester, I will continue to pursue my education at North Carolina. I understand the negative connotations associated with my punishment, but I would like to continue to be active in the community and participate in various outreach programs that I have always enjoyed.

        “There are defining moments in everyone’s life. I will use this as one of mine to shape and mold my morals and values as person. My time at UNC came to an abrupt conclusion, but I will forever support UNC”.

        =============================================================

        I’m not Greg Little’s agent, but he’s a 20 y/o kid who took less than $5000 in “preferential benefits” from an agent or program supporter and lied about it, as did 12 other kids in the North Carolina program. He was “done” at UNC, just like highly rated players including OLB Quinn and DT Austin, as soon as they were found out, so lying after the fact really doesn’t further detract from his character. As his statement says, it’s what he does after the hard times that matters. If he uses “losing something he loves” as incentive, it could turn out to be a positive!

        As a for instance, I had one very poor year in college as an immature sophomore and barely avoided involuntary discharge. It jolted me to attention and I finished strong. Much to my amusement, graduate school admissions people didn’t view it as a negative at all! I’m willing to afford Greg Little the same consideration…

        The Packers have a strong roster, but if you’re not constantly improving you’re losing ground. Swain took Ruvell Martin’s job several years ago and hasn’t done anything to put a strangle-hold on it. His drop in the SB was hurtful; if we happen to retain JJ, Swain’s is a roster spot that can be improved upon…

  • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

    Maehl: Like iccy, I’m not Maehl’s agent but the guy could be a steal low, but in my opinion a good value as high as a two or three if you had multiple picks in those rounds. I’ve seen mocks with him as a 4-5-7 rounder and cannot figure that out. I guess its because he does not look like a football player; a real Bebee type, maybe not quite as fast but timed at anywhere from 4.5 to 4.65 and is really football quick. Does not drop the ball and catches off the back shoulder, keeps two feet in, does well and goes into traffic as well as being able to hold on and take the hit. Great field awareness – but, again, doesn’t look like a football player. Don’t know his real size, have seen 6-0, 180 to 6-1, 190 but still reminds me of Bebee on the field.

    • iccyfan

      I think it was an article in the week leading up to the Senior Bowl; anyway the author (an NFL scout of some type) made fun of Maehl’s body type, saying his skinny legs and complete lack of muscle definition meant he couldn’t survive an NFL pounding. This reminded me of the baseball book about Billy Beane, “Moneyball”, where the old baseball scouts were only interested in “five tool players”. Don Beebe and Billy Schroeder could fly; I think Maehl is a slightly shorter Ed McCaffrey with slot receiver quickness like that slow undrafted Texas Tech receiver now plying his craft in New England…

      Replace JJ with Greg Little and Swain with Jeff Maehl, giving them both a year to learn under DD while the sun sets on that career…

      Postscript: The Packers are drafting in a “value position” and that’s where Ted excels anyway! We’re not gonna be in a position to get Green or Jones and the next tier (Baldwin, Torey Smith, Hankerson) all strike me as having question marks. Ted’s not likely to draft one of the mighty mites (Jerningan, Young). Anyway, that illustrates why I’m looking a little lower on the prospect list. I’d like to see OT, OLB / DE addressed on the first two days and give Arod some new weapons on day three!

      • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

        Yeah, that all makes a lot of sense.

  • Rick

    GB has normally had great success with round two talent in a WR role. Jennings and Nelson come to mind. Little is a character call. I can see why he may drop in the draft or not be a GB kind of guy.

    WR can be a prima donna position anyways without a kid already looking for such a brazen hand out. I was not able to find out any reviews from scouts on the combine interviews with Little; so purely looking in from the outside this guy may not be the hard working over achiever guy that TT normally goes for.

    I kind of like Maehl he has moved up on my draft board but I have him going to the Jets in the 6th. Draft services list him around #200 on their value charts. I think a team with a QB in place and looking for work hard depth in the slot will take a flyer. Then again almost all of my late round WR picks last year seem to be UDFAs. It is a crap shoot late on day three.

    I have MR Irrelevent with GB in round 7 as Clay Nurse DE/OLB Illinois BTW

    • Rick

      He played DE and a Bandit role in a 4-3 3-4 hodge podge and ate up Big Ten big OT and OGs and so was a reason why Corey Liguet (1st round DT talent) and Martez Wilson ( top ranked ILB in draft) looked so good.
      Great tape against top talent and never tires out motor.

      Watched him jump over an extra point Oline and block the extra point against San Diego St and what he did to Baylor in the bowl game, oh mama. He looked like a top Dline prospect in the game. 6-2 259 he is breed to be trained as a OLB in this 3-4 of capers.

      List as a 7th round UDFA in most draft services.

      • Rick

        School Pro Days will shuffle the deck on a lot of these guys in the late rounds though.

  • Larry

    Here’s a question for you draftniks… If you had a choice to draft Cam Newton or sign Vince Young which would you take. I see very many similarities and personally view that neither will make a good starting QB long term. Your thoughts.

    • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

      Neither. Stewart, Douglass, Flutie, and Cunningham. Tarkenton pulled it off, Vick not yet in my mind and Young became a top QB when he went and stayed in the pocket. Wildcat is for the birds.

    • dave76

      QBs, IMO, are a hard draft pick. It seems to me you really need the right OC, HC and players to fit the system in addition to a talented QB. How many times have we seen awesome college QBs flop in the NFL. I think Newton is way over-hyped and will have a 50-50 chance of being a complete bust. ( Now that I said that, he’ll probably make me eat crow in three years.) Young has not adjusted to the NFL emotionally or mentally. IMO, his best move is to get some therapy and start over with a different team.

      But to answer your question, Larry, neither. As Packer fans, football doesn’t get any better for us. Rodgers is the best QB in the NFL and he will be a Packer for a long time to come!!There’s a happy thought.

      Also I don’t want to flatter myself or insult you, but I’m not a draftnik like some of you. With that in mind, I try to learn from your posts and put a comment in here and there. I enjoy all of your draft talk though. Keep it up.

    • iccyfan

      I think it depends on where your team is in terms of competitiveness. If you’re Buffalo, you draft Cam Newton and let him grow with the rest of your rebuilding team. If you’re Minnesota and have aging pieces in place now, you sign Vince Young and play for the present.

      I happen to believe Cam Newton is going to be a force in the NFL. He reminds me a a bigger, faster and stronger Donovan McNabb; you can downplay DM circa 2011 but you can’t deny he was a heck of a player five – ten years ago. Auburn did not stack up to the competition when you compare them player to player (say to Alabama); Newton was simply a man amongst boys on the college field. Mississippi State might have been national champions if they’d just come up with the $180K Cecil wanted….

    • Rick

      IF

      GB had need of a back up QB because of a Flynn issue or he was gone.

      I would take Newton as a second or third rounder and allow him to develop with a proven QB coach (Clements) that can teach and runs a great QB camp. He could learn his craft for a few years and run scout teams and become the next Steve Young. Except Young was a lefty :)

      Vince Young is somewhat damaged goods with emotional bagage. Not very interested.

  • Larry

    interesting answers…it seems the possibility of greatness CN exceeds the known level VY. I agree there’s the baggage with VY but he’s played 3 years and been been professionally coached. To some degree he’s a known quantity. I certainly am glad we have AR and MF.

    • Rick

      Me too. Only having two QBs on 53 roster has been advantageous with the injury issues GB has faced the last two years.

    • http://Orlando Mark

      If we’re being honest #12 wasn’t very good his first two years and Flynn was pretty bad last year. It takes time for a QB either to develop or unlearn what he did in college. The only exception are with teams that have good running attacks and defenses. Unfortunately top prospects get drafted by bad teams that have multiple problems. I don’t expect much from CN and his posturing to get a better contract will make things worse.

    • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

      I’m a big fan of Rush, but have McNabb rated a lot higher than he does. McN would make an excellent backup and could play forever like Favre and Testaverde, BUT I don’t think he would.
      He has every Eagle record to be had but has a bad rap for only four full seasons out of twelve in the league, but thats very misleading when you consider he was out the last game one year simply because they had their Div wraped up and has missed only twelve games. Fact is he has played thru a hell of a lot of serious injuries, a lot more than Favre. My gosh look at what he has accomplished – four East titles, five NFC titles, and a SB. His TD ratio over INTs is 2X. The only bad thing about his 85% QB rating is the fact that he is only 59% accurate.
      I’d take him as a backup in a heartbeat!

  • roy jamison

    IMO, Matt Flynn could start for about 8 teams right now. He’s had the opportunity to learn while on the bench and his play against a tough New England team shows he can do the job if given the opportunity in the right system.

    • http://jlworden1suddenlink.net LarryTex

      Well, if we must trade lets do this: Flynn and mutiple low round picks for Grossman and a higher round pick. WAS gets a replacement for McNabb and picks it can trade for FAs and we could package the pick from them with our 2nd and/or 3rd to move up in the first. Maybe we would have a better shot at that other OLB some are looking for. Fly in the ointment here, in all this, is that this year there is real value at 32 for a CB or WR so I really don’t think its a TT move.

      • Rick

        Unless we get a 1st rounder GB is NOT trading Flynn. He is a more valuable QB to the Packers than almost any in the draft. It is better to aquire a QB late rounder like Flynn was and develop the rookie in QB camp this year and next and let Flynn to try and fly on his own two years from now as a FA.

  • Steve

    My guess is that Jolly will not be wearing a Green Bay uniform next year instead I think he will be wearing an orange jump suit in Texas. So, I think that we should give Jenkins the money we were giving Jolly.