Still basking in the glory

A week later and I’m finally coming down to earth. What a great week it was with a Packer on every late night show and incredible stuff on NFL Network. Inside the NFL on Showtime was a classic as well, I’m sure glad Ed Sabol got into the Hall of Fame, because without him it would have been a boring week.

All attention now seems to be on the labor negotiations which are getting uglier by the minute. Myself, I’m going to look back one final time. Here are my random thoughts on the 2010 season.

As most of you recall, I had the Packers being about 7-1 after eight games. Other than Philly and the Jets I didn’t think anybody else was capable of beating us. I never saw losses to the Bears, Redskins and Dolphins coming. I still think the Packers should have went for two after tying the Dolphin game at the gun. McCarthy was not in good standing about then, at least in my book.

I even sold my Vikings’ tickets in week seven because I couldn’t bear seeing Brett Favre stick the dagger in the Packers’ season, after all, a trip to New York followed. The Packers were staring 3-5 right in the mouth.

Thankfully Brett Favre was Brett Favre and the against the Jets the Packers’ defense made it’s first real statement of the year. The Packers went 5-1 the next six games until losing Aaron Rodgers to injury against Detroit. With the loss to the resurgent Lions and the Patriots the following week, just like that the division title was out of reach. A revolting turn of events.

I never in a million years would have thought the Bears would have did what they did over the course of the season. It took until the NFC Championship game that we saw the Bears that we thought they were. The Bears had their chance to keep the Packers out of the playoffs and blew it. Too bad, so sad.

At 8-6 I was confident the Packers were going to make the playoffs, the Giants and Bears at home with everything to lose was pretty much a gimme, although the Bears tried to make it tough by playing their starters the whole game with nothing to gain seeding-wise.

I was actually feeling really good going into Philly for the first playoff game as I thought that was a good matchup for us, much better than playing the Bears back-to-back. That turned out to be the toughest game in the playoffs if you ask me.

I was not really worried about Atlanta, we should have beat them easily the first time around and payback is a bitch in the NFL. Ditto Chicago, the NFC Championship could have been a rout, only an injury to Jay Cutler kept that game close.

Beating the Bears twice in January and taking the Halas Trophy in Chicago might be even bigger in my book now that we won the Super Bowl. Well, it is close, that’s for sure.

The Super Bowl was a done deal. The Packers were simply rolling and McCarthy pulled out all stops from the ring fitting Saturday night to coming out firing from the opening gun Sunday. Putting the game in Rodger’s hands was exactly what I thought they should do, and Rodgers was magnificent in dissecting the Steelers’ suspect secondary.

The combination of McCarthy, Rodgers and Dom Capers’ defense is a match made in heaven. Ted Thompson just received a contract extension, McCarthy, Rodgers and Capers should not be far behind.

The Packers are built to last, but strange things happen in the NFL. With two concussions last year Rodgers might bump a helmet leaving the huddle and be out three weeks under the ridiculous concussion rules.

That may be extreme, but the fact that the Packers of 96-97 were the last NFC team to win back-to-back NFC Championships shows you how hard it is to repeat. But right now, with Ryan Grant and Jermichael Finley coming back, I can’t see them not repeating.

I just hope they get the chance.

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  • Rick

    What an amazing year. The Packers were an early favorite in the preseason. Injuries and a competitive Bears team meant GB had to focus and win to get in. A hot team with a great defense is a tough thing to beat.

  • I feel like we won four Super Bowls this year. We beat Favre and the Vikings twice, took the Halas Trophy in Chicago in the NFC Championship and then won the actual Superbowl. I couldn’t have asked for more, that’s for sure.

    I still think we could get a better Special Teams coach. The only thing that improved drastically in my eyes was the punting of Tm Masthay. The Offensive Line seemed to come together, so I guess I could let Campen off the hook for now. Other than that, I’m happy with all the other coaches. I wonder who will replace Jimmy Robinson. I hope they give Capers and McCarthy the same length contracts.

    It should be an interesting draft, but I really think we will go Tackle in the first round this year. We need a reliable back-up there. Lang won’t cut it. Ask Rodgers about Julius Peppers.

    I have a lot of respect for Mike Tomlin and Dick LeBeau. They are great coaches, and the Steelers should thank their stars they have them. My hats off to them for helping give us a great Super Bowl.

    We lost a great fan in Mr. Cook, who made it to every SB in his lifetime, with the exception of this years. It’s unfortunate since GB was his favorite team that he couldn’t make one last trip before he passed away.

    I have no confidence in Mr. Smith regarding helping get a new CBA in place. The guy looks like a grump, a bulldog. I just hope whatever does happen doesn’t backfire too hard on the NFL’s fans. Yes, the fans. We are the ones who make this ship go, and the players and owners need to remember that.

  • iccyfan

    Nice recap, Al; for some reason success always seems a little sweeter when adversity is overcome along the way, and the Packers had that in droves this year! Those gut-wrenching losses to the Bears, Dolphins, Redskins and Falcons weren’t pleasant at the time, but they played a part in this squad being forged by fire.

    Recent history would show us we shouldn’t expect a return to the Superbowl; not only has the NFC not seen a repeat participant since the Packers, but there have been ten different NFC teams in the past ten years. But when one looks a little closer, a number of those teams were of the fluke variety, getting hot after a mediocre regular season (Seahawks, Cardinals) or benefiting from a weak schedule (Bears). This Packer team would appear to be built much more like the AFC’s Patriots or Steelers, for sustained success rather than a single-season burst!

    I’m with you Scot, in hoping the greedy billionaires versus greedy millionaires posturing doesn’t impact our fun too much. From a fan’s perspective, it seems this should get done quickly; we don’t need to see the team’s books – it’s obvious the league is making money in bushel baskets! Other than college kids and agents, everybody sees the need for a rookie salary cap, so get it done. You know the system is grievously flawed when the bad teams don’t seem to benefit from being at the top of the draft and are willing to part with high picks because they’re too expensive. On the back side of the equation, the players pay a steep price and improved pensions / retirement health benefits should be a given. I don’t like Larry the Cable Guy on History Channel, but “Git ‘er done” seems appropriate!

    • Completely agree.

      • iccyfan

        You don’t like Larry the Cable Guy? For some reason, I picture Rocky70 as a big LTCG fan…

        • Rocky70

          Never even heard of him …… If he’s on cable I’ll never hear of him …. Haven’t seen cable TV since the early 90s …..

      • I don’t mind the Cable guy but I do mind the harsh negotiating tactics. It’s OK for an opening position to want as much as you can get but this isn’t the NHL where most teams are losing money. Why threaten to wreck a going business? Where are we going to put the $30 million? A larger practice facility, a bigger salary for the CEO, I think we can ask Murphy what he wants to do with that cash. Retire the stadium debt earlier. There’s not a lot of places to hide that much cash.

  • Rick

    Not to come down for or against the players or owners. Last year the Packers were what would be considered $25 million under the cap and reported a final profit of $5 million. GB is considered a small market team with large fan base. We are considered the average in the NFL.

    The owners are asking for a 30 million dollar roll back so that all franchises can be profitable. 32teams x 30 million dollars is roughly a 1 billion rollback. That is the issue in a nut shell. The rest is posturing BS and rock throwing.

    • iccyfan

      This would be LarryTex (retired accounting type) territory, but the money guys can make a balance sheet say about anything they want it to. I work in the insurance industry and a drunk actuary once bragged he already knew what the company results would be for the next five years. Translation – numbers can be manipulated…

      I really think the most important issues for the long-term benefit of the game are the rookie pre-determined slotted contracts (no more hold-outs) and back-end healthcare for the retired performers. I see the additional billion dollar hold-back as posturing on the part of the owners. If I was the NFLPA and the owners wanted to hold-back $2B before the salary percentages kicked in, I’d want to see each teams books too. JMHO.

      • Yeah, you’ve got me pegged. However, I believe in the right to fail and abhor bailouts. My gosh, I’m betting there are 10 combine (or even single) potential ownerships out there for every one that could fail. People, as a rule, don’t realize how costly to the community these franchises are. Nobody factors in the off-books support costs because of the pride factor involved in having your own NFL team. Frankly, when you want tax write-offs, stadiums, etc. and then cry poverty and the need for a profit – I say boo-hoo, sell out! I don’t care for either the Comish or Smith, nor do I know enough about the details of discussions, but it looks to me like ownership is trying to break the Union. While normally I’d be on mgmt’s side in this (hell, I made sure I retired in a right-to-work, no income tax state), this time I’m not so sure…..!

        • Rick

          The NFLPA got one heck of a deal on the last CBA. Half the owners are not really making any money- at least not the amount they feel they should make. You are right LT, the ownership are not going to tolerate not making big bank money in the golden age of NFL football.

          I mean GB is a 200 million dollar business and GB turned a 5 million profit. A profit of 2.5% About what a milk and eggs make for a grocery store, not much. The owners won’t open their books because of the % of income agreements of the past CBA have given the players an entitlement number to hang their hats on.

          With a % number there is alot of “benefits” some of these team get in regards to property taxes and fees etc. that are “off the books” as far as the current 1 billion off the top before splitting. Once that can of worms is openend up there would be no going back and the owners have clearly said that the players are NOT business partners. So they are not showing &ick to the players.

          The issue is still the roughly 30 million per team.

          Each team makes on average $187 million per team ( 6 billion divided by 32 for those scoring at home) The salary cap IF the year had remained under the CBA is $163million. So each team would have the remaining $24 million to try to pay for the coaches the front office, property taxes, power bills. etc. ; basically running the team with out going in the hole or using an owner’s deep pockets. Some teams market well and make extra money some teams don’t or don’t sell out and make a lot less then average ( Jacksonville).

          Dallas already is the biggest venue for concerts and the rare NBA game. Can GB do that??? NO!!

          What frustrates me is that this math is not that hard. You have 6 billion dollars,take 60% of that and divide by 32 teams should generate a true salary cap number of $112.5million . The owners are asking to role back to $120 million. Yes the numbers do not add up smoothly but as LT said there is a ton more behind the scene BS that gets added subtracted and moved around that I do not want to ,or care to, know about. But that is short of it in a paragraph or two.

          The positive is that the slotted rookie system and adjusted FA rules can be hammered out in an afternoon. Heck both sides proposals on those is almost the same or close enough to be agreed on quickly.

          All the 18 games and that is just posturing,the ask for the moon on stuff you don’t want but can give up to find common ground.

  • Reid

    It’s too bad we all love the game so much….we could just tell them all to F-OFF and support our local high school teams. WE ARE THE REASON THEY MAKE SO MUCH MONEY!!!!

    • dave76

      You’re right! Who here doesn’t have a boatload of Packer ” stuff ” topped off by more SB 45 Champion items we’ve collected over the last week? I wasn’t at the SB, but I bought enough stuff to never forget a single moment. Love the game!

      • Rick

        Guilty as charged

      • Own a piece of history. Why not?

        • Packer_Bob

          I plead guilty. I mean, the fifth!

  • A little off the track but with the $30 million a year we could run our own developmental league. Everyone in the area could get to see real football and we could develop talent and sell it. Any time we need a player we could get someone whose proved himself in competition. There are enough good players coming out of college who need jobs. Just a few teams in places like Des Moines where we already have a fan base. And, just a few games to make it special. Mostly practice where we could get a jump on our competition.

    • Rick

      Colleges already provide the developmental league at no cost to the NFL. It is tough to beat that plus there are new possible ” employees” showing there talent each year as freshman.

    • We saw the kind of “development” with Shields. The pro game is different. The spread offense isn’t exactly suited to develop NFL QB’s. We might actually take guys that weren’t ready when they got out of college to even start learning. NFL Europe got lots of players up to speed and we would have the exclusive on it. It might even make a buck. Minor league baseball does OK.

      • Rick

        True but NFL Europe lost money for the league and only determined that London and Berlin were possible NFL cities in the future. The UFL will try to fill that need with 5 teams and no out of pocket for the NFL. That is why the NFL network is caring the games. Get a small extra league that plays in the offseason so the teams can see talent for almost out of pocket.

        • Thanks for the feedback.

    • 6 teams. 10 games the three months before training camp. 400 employees at $10 million tops. 1 year minimum contracts. Give the towns that are interested a chance to market themselves and see how it goes. Any stadium would be empty anyhow. Only if we get extra money from a labor deal favoring the owners.

  • TRIP


    • Rick

      🙂 LOL

    • Amen.

  • Larry

    IMO a major driver in the CBA is the set-off allowed for investment (proposed) In GB’s case I believe their spending $3M ? on new display boards in the off-season. As player salary’s go up there is less money for these types of things whether they be boards, new turf, facilities etc. NFL Europe although not a money maker did provide a developmental ground for players and does grow the fan base BUT it again takes money.

    Any business with lowering profit AND/OR a future need for investment HAS to control costs. Its a fact of life that the current 9% unemployed know all too well and the NFLPA has to learn. I’m sure the auto workers don’t like the HUGE paycuts and benefit cuts they experienced but the industry LIVES TO FIGHT ANOTHER DAY…EMPLOYING MILLIONS.

    Football WILL live on but not in Buffalo, Carolina, Jville , KC, GB, Minn, Cinn, or other small market teams and when it dies there…IT DIES!

    • Oooh, Larry, bad example, raw nerve. You elect the man, cause a bankruptcy with enough forced features to drive up the price uncompetetively, take over, cheat the preferred out of their investment, give the common to the worker, give the public a non-economic purchase bonus, declare a profit, then top it all with a bonus pay-back to those who elected the man in the first place. Thats how you live to fight another day now!

  • Larry

    In 3 years when the public is paid back all funding to save the auto industry and the industry continues to employ and benefit untold communities what will you argue? That it took too long? As a former finance guy I’m sure you’ve dealt with the choices of all declining industry..restructure or die. In this case, the restructure not only involved tremendous sacrifice of workers but the need for gov’t help. I’d much rather have lent my tax dollars this way that purchase another $700 toilet seat.

    Interestingly enough…our backgrounds are very similar…professions common…and I suspect more in common that we would admit…a diffence of opinion prevails.

    • Well, I state your “restructure” a little differently. My way of stating it is “grow or die”. As to the toilet seat, here again, its government imposed requirements. Like the $2 commercial Xistor that has to have a 40 hr burn-in in a White Room and test results paper, paper, paper, that now costs the government $24 and they yell fraud. On the other hand, directly to the auto industry, the combination of lousy bargaining (akin to the NFL?), govt interference, and Union unfunded retirement liability, and a few other factors brought them to their knees. You know, the one time I saddled myself with a lousy company, I had to uproot the family and move to survive. Now, I would probably just go get my food stamps, mortgage bail-out, and unemployment check. I would suffer by giving up my ‘tini before and cigar after dinner. Yeah, before you make the charge, I am very cynical.

  • Larry

    and with that…we shall end our chat.

    • Yeah, I’m sure thats best.
      By the way, a lot of good press on how Shields turned out (with proper coaching). Immediately after the game I thought he was being attacked, but not so. Gee, guys, did we give up on Ahmad Carroll too soon? Chuckle, chuckle, chuckle.

      • Rick

        Ugh that name again… it burns, it burns !! 🙂

  • iccyfan

    Boring! Take it to a political chat room and get back to what’s fun, draft talk…

    I don’t pretend to know sh!t from shinola when it comes to rating draft prospects; I just go from what I read other places, many of them, eventually building a consensus opinion. What I’m seeing is that this draft runs DEEP in areas where the Packers aren’t hurting, but could use some eventual reinforcements. I’m hoping somebody wants our late first rounder real bad and is willing to give us extra second’s and third’s to get it (what we did with Matthews). With second and third round ammunition, target: 1) OT / OG Ben Ijalana of Villanova 2) OLB’s Mark Herzlich of BC or Dontae Moch of Nevada and 3) CB Ras-I- Dowling of Virginia.

    Again, I don’t know diddly, but Ijalana is getting lots of small school love (like that OT from Hillsdale last year), Herzlich is just a great story and a high character kid, Moch has that crazy speed with size and many scouts thought Dowling was better than his Virginia partner, Chris Cook. Throw in Owen Marucic from Stanford to replace three fullbacks on the roster and we’re on to something!

    • Rocky70

      ” I don’t pretend to know sh!t from shinola when it comes to rating draft prospects.” …..

      No need to apologize, Itchee …… We all know your limitations with the draft ……. Maybe the ‘draft guru’ Rick will give you some pointers ………

  • Larry

    TT knows how to trade down so if value isn’t there he’ll trade that pick. Given we don’t need 8 new bodies (counting the Kampman pick)..maybe he’ll give up two or three to get a guy he really wants ala CM3. He’ll pick his board!

    I think there will be good receivers that fall to the bottom based on the strength of the defensive candidates. We may see him go that way to groom a guy a year or replace JJ whose a FA.

    • Rocky70

      If JJ goes & the fact that DD is only getting older, gotta think WR will be a priority ……. Considering that GB’s future is still going to be AR throwing the ball 30+ times a game, I don’t like the sound of only GJ, JN & Swain as the 1,2, & 3 receivers …… Move up & nail down another AJ as in AJ Green …….

    • DD is let off the hook for drops because, well, he is DD. Nelson gets let off for a couple in the SB because of about 135 yds. That leaves JJ. Figures, I guess, that at this point in their careers I think he is the best of the three. I can live with a ratio of one TD to one dropped TD, can Arod-MM-TT? We’ll see.

      • Rocky70

        I agree ….. I think JJ is a talent who would be sorely missed …… The only problem with his drops were that he was so open & possibly headed to TD land if he had made the reception ….. He actually gets behind the defender better than even GJ ….. An off-season adjustment on his part & GB has the best WR combo in the NFL (GJ & JJ) …… Alas, it may not happen ….. It’ll be back to the days of Freeman & Schroeder as 1 & 2 ……..

        • You are so right, Rock. GJ down the left, JJ down the right, Nelson and/or Finley crossing or down the middle – unstoppable……!

  • So, let’s hear everyone’s opinions on your top 8 positions you think TT will draft for. Here’s what I think:
    1) Wide Receiver, as some of you stated above Driver’s no spring chicken and Jones may walk
    2) Tackle, definitely need to groom someone behind Clifton. Lang won’t cut it.
    3) DE – Jenkins won’t be back
    4) OLB or ILB, Maybe Casey Matthews if he’s still around
    4) Quarterback – I have a feeling someone may trade for Flynn – Bengals? Bills?
    5) Running back – Jackson will probably be left to walk
    6) KR/PR – absolutely need to improve this area
    7) CB – Need better depth, Lee and Underwood are just guys
    8) K – Need competition for Crosby, or replace him if he leaves

    • What you present, Scot, certainly has merit. The problem with draft senarios, based on perceived needs is that they become a deck of cards. DD stays because he is not too expensive to keep in the locker room and JJ moves up (and paid for it) to #2 because he is just better than Jordy. Lang is coming off that supposed learning period while Bugaga has matured faster, but not at the OLT he was drafted for. Too many better OLBs ahead of Casey (senimental pick?) like Jones and Zombo. And so on, and so on. Looks to me like BPA; after all, we are the Super Bowl Champs. I’m making a real risky prediction—Jenkins stays well into camp. TT will not let him go until Jolly and Neal prove themselves even if he has to tag him.

      • Rick

        I was wondering as well about GB using the tag on Jenkins to LT. With an unknown CBA it is a safe way to lock up a valuable player to make sure a core is there at DE in case things don’t shake out well for Jolly and others.

      • iccyfan

        When you’re drafting 32nd, there are too many variables beyond your control! Nothing would really surprise me this April; I could see TT trading up into the #20 range if he saw value dropping or I could see him trading down and accumulating second and third round picks.

        From a financial standpoint, I don’t see how the Packers can pay James Jones. I saw some salary numbers for the 2011 season on another website; Jennings counts $7M and DD is at $6M – what’s up with that! How much money can you spend on one position group, knowing that Jermichael and Jordy will be coming up for paydays in 2012? Jones is an enigma; probably our best downfield blocker – if not for the untimely drops, he’d be a no-brainer. My gut feeling is he moves on, and he was acting like it in the week leading to the Superbowl and again at the Lambeau Field celebration. Having said that, TT is loyal to “his guys”…

        No way they use a tag on Jenkins – too much money! If they can resign him – awesome, but not the tag!

        If we’re making guesses here, I still think our first selection will be on the offensive line and I’m sticking with Ben Ijalana or Danny Watkins.

        • Rick

          Some of the numbers are misleading. Many of the contracts were heavy for 2010 because of the uncapped year rule.

  • Larry

    Not like TT to tag a 30 yr old player and guarantee 11 to 13M. Assuming Jolly makes the grade, DC can start and rotate Raji, Green, Pickett, Neal and Jolly. Leaving Wilson, Wynn and the infamous Harrell as fill-ins. 11M doesn’t seem worth it for a 6th good player on the line.

    I’m thinking WR is going to be the top player as many defensive players will come off early.

    I’m going wr, db, rb, ol, dl, db, qb, lb today. We’ll see who signs! I don’t think Lange is a LT but he may be a RT. Is Baluga the answer at LT…I’d sure like to have him play a game or two with Cliffy resting his knees on the bench just in case. I guess that why we have 4 preseason games.

  • I wasn’t thinking “franchise” but rather a restrictive one. With Greene and Wilson/Wynn rotating depending on down and distance he is not a 3-down guy now. But then, that was due partially to his injuries.

    For some reason ’05 keeps popping up in my mind given TT’s flair for the unexpected. What happens if one of those top 3/5 QBs drops to 32? I would not put it passed him to go “future insurance”. He and the personnel guys really have to evaluate the IR list when thinking draft needs. I just cannot get away from PBA even at QB.

    • Rick

      I think I follow what your are saying. Let’s say we have Cam Newton as the #6 guy on the big board and he keeps sliding and sliding would BPA and draft him at #32? Yes if his value was greater those remaining.

      I.e. If the #7 guy on our big board slid as well and was available in a more needed position you would take the other guy though. That is what happened to AR in his draft. The other guy just kept wining until TT grabbed him and forced the Redskins to grab Jason Campbell instead of AR with the next pick.

      This team can BPA all three days of the draft.

  • Rick

    I was thinking of tagging and seeing how the CBA goes and by the Packers time to see how the players coming back are going to be. At worst weeither resign and incoporate the 13 guarantee into it the contract as a signing bonus or use Jenkins for trade bait.

    • Rick

      My gosh I can type on this frickin black berry when I am walking. 🙂

      • Rick

        Not well but I can type LOL

      • You’ll never have enough memory for all your data. Heh, heh!

        • Rick

          No draft data on this thing. It my my wife’s old one and the keys are so dang small. Just borrowing in place of mine that was drowned and plowed ( fell from my pocket into the winter mess when pushing cars out of snow and I found it near the edge of where I park where the plow must have pushed it. It was not… intact.

  • Rocky70

    And with the 32nd pick in the draft the Green Bay Packers choose ……..

    Torrey Smith …. KR/WR from Maryland …… 6’1″ ….. 210 # ….. 4.37 forty ….

    ” He’s always been a great kick returner, but this has been his most complete season. He has 65 catches for 1,065 yards, has set a school record with 12 touchdown receptions, and is a threat to go the distance every time he touches the ball. ”

    ” Described by head coach Ralph Friedgen as “God created a perfect person” due to Smith’s humility and dedication, as well as his athletic talents. Graduated in December with a degree in criminology and criminal justice. ”

    This guy could be had at 32 or maybe the early part of the 2nd …… Looks like a Packer player to me.

    • iccyfan

      I saw Torrey Smith going to the Packers in a mock draft I read this morning; first time I’d seen his name in the first round and ahead of Jon Baldwin from Pitt and Leonard Hankerson from Miami.

    • Rick

      Ok Rocky, I’ll bite. True if GB decided to take a WR at #32 Torrey Smith would be an excellent choice.

      However I am leaning
      Rnd1) DE or CB depending on highest value – early thoughts are J.J. Watt DE from Wisconson or Jimmy Smith CB from Colorado. If they feel Smith’s October concussion is a worry then Brandon Harris CB/KR from Miami would be next.

      There are 10 quality DEs, 10 DTs, and 10 CBs all rated 2nd round or better draft grades. There will be serious value where GB picks at #32 as quailty players slip.

      Rnd 2) WR – There are again 9 WRs with a 2nd round draft grade or better. We should be able to again find a solid WR pick. Jennings, Jordy Nelson were 2nd rounders.

      So early I will say Leonard Hankerson WR Miami- a Sidney Rice/Andre Johnson type receiver
      or Jerrel Jernigan a 5 9 speed demon WR/ KR ( By the way he also played QB and Punt Returner)

      • Rocky70

        In my mind, TT will go into this draft with certain GB free-agents crossed off his list …… In other words, GB will just concede that they will not retain JJ & Jenkins (no matter what) or regardless of the pending CBA ….. As a result, TT will focus the draft on BPA & team needs …..

        I believe M. Neal was drafted in 2010 as Jenkins eventual replacement ……. GB hasn’t drafted a WR (yet) to replace JJ …… Thus, my priority in 2011 is WR ……. I’d be dismayed if somehow B. Swain had to man the #3 WR spot in 2011 due to JJ’s departure and an injury to GJ, JN or DD …..

        GB’s ‘D’ was still a force even without Jenkins in 2010 ……. Plus, the DL in Caper’s scheme will always be a rotational position …….. Plus, I fully expect the ‘Purple Dranker’ to return ……

        At the same time, GB’s ‘O’ is a passing ‘O’ ….. AR has to have the weapons for his abilities to be fully utilized ……. For me, it’s a wait & see on Finley’s involvement ….. The only time Finley hasn’t gotten injuried is when he played very little (his rookie year) ……..

      • Rocky70

        BTW, I can already see your ‘draft prediction strategy’ is similar to last year …… Between now & draft day you’ll have mentioned so many names for the #32 spot that you can’t help but be close (or maybe even hit on it like I did with Bulaga last year) …… I’m more inclined to make a pick now (as I have done), re-evaluate for a month & then possibly reiterate or change my pick & then re-evaluate until draft day & make my ‘final prediction’ ……

        Do you want to be a ‘draft guru’ or just another ‘draft weasel’ …. Anyone can throw a thousand darts & hit the bullseye once ……. I’m planning on hitting the bullseye & throwing only 3 darts …..

        • iccyfan

          Revisionist history with a bad attitude – hilarious! Ignore him, Rick. Rocky is and always has been a troll.

          • Rick

            I try to respect your picks and views.

            I never have supported your abusive nature and personal attacks over the last 2 years, nor will I now.

            Respect Rock. No campfire Kumbaya, just respect others.

            If not, Troll elsewhere.

          • Rick

            That is aimed at Rocky’s little post at the bottom of my two

          • Rocky70

            Abusive nature ?? …… Personal attacks ??

            Please enlighten me with a few quotes ….. And, please provide them in context ….

            Good luck …..

          • dave76

            Rocky, I wouldn’t challenge Rick or Iccy. You are in over your head, they shut you up the last time and you disappeared for about a week with the cat latched on your tongue. You never say anything nice about anyone, I dont even know if you are capable. You called me ” Beavis” about 4 months ago and I had no idea who that was. Now I know. If Beavis and Butthead is a show you have been familiar with, I actually feel sorry for you. That is the dumbest show ever produced and it makes me wonder…Rocky…

          • Rocky70

            Hey dave ….. Do you ever post about football ?? Just wondering …. I leave this blog when the info. & insight are lacking …… Like now ….. Get a clue …….

          • iccyfan

            Oh no, Rocky’s leaving again (and again and again and again)…
            Whatever will we do?

          • Rick

            @ Rocky Feb 18th comment at 7:18pm

            You have insulted two people in just this topic thread alone maybe more. You also insulted people in the last couple of threads, as usual.
            I don’t have the time to grab the hundreds of snarky and douche bag comments you have made as anyone reading the above thread will have an idea of your impertinence. The sad thing is that almost a year ago we had this same discussion.

            Rick says:
            April 12, 2010 at 7:04 pm
            @Rocky – Why are you such a douche sometimes? Your attitude is not fun to chat with. I appreciate your strong feelings for an OT but do you have to be demeaning to others here?
            Can you please express those feelings without the spite?
            I would love to hear your best guess at what player the Packers pick.
            I put myself out there and picked an OLB and picked Sergio Kindle which you thought had to many character issues.
            So what is your pick Rocky??
            Back to the present. Is it me or is this déjà vu?? Here it is Feb 2011 and we are having the same comments to you.
            You also made insulting “cut and paste” comments to me and others. Let us look at just one of your cut and paste draft posts concerning your bold trade away picks for #10 draft pick Bulaga!!

            Rocky70 says:
            April 16, 2010 at 8:04 am
            Per PFT:
            ” Though they’re wisely not talking about the back end of the potential transaction, G.M. Gene Smith has made it clear that the Jags are looking to move down from the No. 10 position ………… They’d like to add more picks, since they don’t have a second-round selection ……….. ”
            Time for TT to be bold & draft an elite OT ………… Colledge was a 2nd rounder & Spitz was a 3rd rounder ……….. Both in 2006 …………. A few seasons later & both are fighting for a job …………. I like Veldheer in the 2nd but would much rather have Bulaga at #10.

            Back to Feb 2011. So what about your dig at me about making multiple picks. You have accused me of doing something so wrong and you can do it in three darts and all that bull on this thread and the last 3 threads!! Again I offered what I thought we would do which is stay at #23 and take BPA which I felt was going to be Sergio Kindle.

            Instead of just saying your pick you insulted people. Then in your own words you admit to different scenarios effecting draft picks. I tweeked mine as data became available but I stuck with them the whole time. You picked three players and really loved one but really shat on yourself about trading away picks to move to #10 to get him.
            Rocky70 says:
            April 16, 2010 at 6:32 pm
            @ iccy
            Try reading & drawing some logical interpretations instead of just trying to personalize this discussion …………… All I’ve done is respond to a multiple-choice question posed by Rick ………… I’ve presented different scenarios because the different scenarios exist in any draft …………. What I think will happen in this draft hasn’t changed since the end of season 2009.
            Charles Brown is not out ………….. Bruce Campbell is not out ……….. And Bulaga is still my choice with a move up in round one …………… Just read the lines as they’re written ……… Reading in between the lines will only confuse you even more than you already are …………… PB & Iccy – the masters of rewriting posts in their own words.

            Again back to Feb 2011. You already used the campfire comment last year. Get new material. Also you ADMITTED I WAS RIGHT that Bulaga was most likely NOT going to be available at #23!!! I even had said that if available I would choose him over other players if he slipped to GB. you then cut and pasted like I am doing now to say you have been acting like a douce and you don’t care. Now you are acting shocked like you never say anything nasty to anybody. Oh and we get a BANK ON IT too. 🙂

            Rocky70 says:
            April 13, 2010 at 7:41 am
            Sorry Rick, but this is not a chatroom ………….. This is a pretty tame blog compared to most ……… Maybe you’re just not up to a little bluntness & directness ……. If you’re looking for a ‘campfire conversation’, you’ll not find it in a blog.
            My pick ?? (For over a month)
            Rocky70 Says:
            March 8th, 2010 at 2:23 pm
            Charles Brown, Bruce Cambell, Bryan Bulaga …………. One of these three will be taken somewhere in round 1 by GB ………. Bank on it.
            Rocky70 Says:
            March 8th, 2010 at 4:04 pm
            Bulaga is my choice ………… GB doesn’t need all their draft picks ………
            Rocky70 Says:
            March 31st, 2010 at 6:56 am
            No doubt drafting an LT in the first round is as risky as drafting a QB ……… Bulaga is my choice but you’re correct ……… Getting him will be unlikely ………..
            Rocky70 Says:
            April 6th, 2010 at 2:53 pm
            Trade up & draft Bulaga …………. Starting line in 2010 ………. Cliffy, Lang, Wells, Sitton, Bulaga with Spitz, Taush, Colledge as back-ups.

            Back to Feb 2011. Hopefully you realize something Rocky.
            You are an irritating man but I have tried to converse with you and deal with you for multiple years. You do have some great analysis but you are just socially inept with your posts.
            Please either deal respectfully with others whether we agree or not or I will break with being polite and ask you to

            Sorry to all others reading this.

        • Rick

          I disagree with you about about “draft predication startegy” by naming off a bunch of players. Early on iccy and I, with out you, discussed Bulaga as a perfect fit for GB but the concession was that he would be gone by GBs #23 pick. I made a pick of Sergio Kindle a CMIII style OLB to play on the other side of Clay. I even posted the first two rounds of my mock draft just before draft day.

          You may make personal digs and nasty comments like those above that irritate me sometimes Rock. However on the subject of GB draft you were very good with your draft ideas last year. Throw those three darts I am interested to see how you do.

          Rocky70 says:
          April 23, 2010 at 4:02 am
          2nd Round ………. Depending on possible trade-ups, look for one of these three to wear G&G in 2010.

          Dexter McCluster – RB
          Chris Cook – CB
          Jared Veldheer – OL

          You can bank on it.

          I still say I was closer picking Cox a CB/KR than you.


          PACKER PETE!!

          He had Burnett on his short list of 12 possibles for round 2 and nailed Newhouse and CJ Wilson as GB valued draft players. (Newhouse endof round 5 and CJ in round 7)

          PackerPete says:
          April 23, 2010 at 10:54 am
          Im a big Misi fan.

          I certainly wish the Pack had a couple seconds and a couple thirds this year.

          Just too many quality players at positions of need for us and not enough draft picks to get them in…

          Im going to say that the best value is at S, CB or OLB for us in rounds 2 and 3.
          Allen, Jones, Cook, Ghee, Burnett, Ansah, Wright, Speivey, Misi, Sapp, Worilds, Bowman

          Im hoping for CJ Wilson in round 4 and Marshall Newhouse in round 5.

          Maybe CB Carroll in round 6 and maybe one of these guys in 7

          • Rocky70

            Nasty comments ????
            All I did was challenge you to set your ‘copy & paste’ approach to the side & focus on what you really think about the draft at 3 different time locations instead of the ‘helter-skelter’ approach you now employ ……

            Geez ….. ‘Star Wars’ postings, Itchee & your ‘sensitive nature’ make it more & more difficult to spend any time in this place ……. A little banter & a few call-outs spice up the place ……. Obviously, some of you only want a warm glowing campfire to sit around …….

        • dave76

          Rocky, have you really been without cable since the early 90s? No wonder you are such a troll, ogre and scrooge rolled into one! I’d be pissed all the time too! Get the cable and your whole outlook on life will be roses and sunshine. Bank on it! Lol

    • I’m in, lets call TT!

      • Rick

        But what will we call him ??? 🙂

        • Aloof.

          • Rick

            Drum noise- Bdum bum.


  • Screw the draft – all 7 picks to OAK for Asomo and Woody becomes nickle, dime, slot, safety, LB or anywhere else Capers wants him. No. 8 goes for a PR/KR.

    • Steve Cheez

      Yeah, look what Ricky Williams did for the Saints.

    • Rick

      Asmo is a FA. No need to trade for him, just afford him.

      • Having not seen the contract and relying only on the statement of that OAK guy, I cannot believe that when a contract is voided that OAK doesn’t still retain some rights. You just do not let a shut-down corner walk. I don’t trust Davis any farther than I can throw him…….!

        • dave76

          True LT, I would never trust Davis either.

      • dave76

        I’m not sure TT would pay what Asomo would ask for. Would make for the most ball hogs in any D backfield, Ints left and right. It would be difficult for any opposing QB to pass on us.

  • Larry

    Arguably the KR is the most needed position and if it can be filled with a quality WR that makes sense. GB did not have a serious injury to CB in 2010 (SB excluded). I wouldn’t count on 2 years in a row so certainly this should be addressed. I’d still like to see Woodson opposite Collins, matching him on TE’s (a GB weakness) with Williams and Shields? on the corners. We need a nickle under this scenario or a corner opposite Williams with Shield dropping to nickle.

    Pburgh was beat with a spread and GB will see alot of spread next year IMO.

    • Maybe in volume and severity, but Harris did have a domino effect along with Underwood, Lee, and even Woody nicked up all year. If Shields develops like Williams do we need to make a high pick for insurance?

      • Rick

        Depending on how long we have to add and count on theplayer as depth. If they are needed right away they need to be a high pick quality player. If not then we can “grow” one.

        Peprah has been in the making for 3 to 4 seasons to get to be game servicable. Tramon took about 3 years himself. Woodson was ready for the Raiders the day he was drafted. With a “teaching” coaching staff in place we can help take and make solid B level players with offensive Line players and CBs. But it takes three years in the same system with the same coaches to do so. I would have loved to see Brad Jones stay healthy and get a second year in the system. He played the 3-4 in college and looked good replacing Kampman but how does he recover from IR? Walden might have

        • Rick

          earned a leg up in competition

          • Steve Cheez

            Ran out of characters?

          • Rick

            LOL. No, just flubbed.

  • Larry

    We do really need another corner…When Harris went out in 2009 we were lit up by good QB’s. If Willams were to miss a few, we’re back to Bush as the nickle. I’m not believing Lee or Underwood are viable options or they would have played ahead of Shields early last year. In this league with 16 games you need 3 to 4 starting corners, with Woodson (aging) , Williams and Shields we could use another to groom.

    Maybe after the combine we should put our picks out there by position and name. LT was a consensus pick last year but who knew Baluga would be there. One constant we have is that TT will take the best available.

    • Rick


    • dave76

      Good point Larry.

  • Rocky70

    It took some a bit longer but that’s what a SB ‘V’ can accomplish ……..

  • Been stewing for a couple of weeks about all the roster losses we will suffer due to our success. Then got a list of all the FAs out there (yeah, it looks official on Asomo, I had to have been wrong) and discovered what really good shape we are in regarding retention (of those we decide to keep). First off I looked at position groupings.

    We do not lose any (I’m talking FA now) QB, RB, OT, TE, or C off the O. We could lose Jones, Colledge, Kuhn and/or Hall. Our posts show a lot of pro-con on C and J, no concern on Hall, and we do not want to lose Kuhn.

    D has the biggest impact, but should we really be concerned there either? No FAs at NT, OLB, ILB, or Corner. At SS I guess we like Peprah, but Bigby not so much. Smith? Who really cares when we have Burnett and Collins? I think most would like to keep Jenkins, but why is he so important with what we have coming back, his injury status, and the fact that he was platooned an awfully lot re down and distance.

    That leaves STs with only Crosby, but even there we are a split group on him and his difficulty from the right hashmark.

    So, when you put that all into perspective and add Finley, Grant, and Havner from IR to the O, this team goes to camp pretty impressive. That doesn’t even account for the fact that we have damned near a whole D coming off IR. I conclude we are in pretty good shape for the future and takes a lot of pressure off the draft. I think this allows TT to take rifle shots rather than the shotgun approach to April. I don’t see much NEED to be very active in the trade or FA market.

    • We do have a need to trade players who have value but won’t make our roster.

  • Asomo again:
    Fer – Shutdown Pass D.
    Agin – Locker room impact of making an outsider the higest paid D and not being able to pay Jenkins and Hawk.
    Question – If CHI can pay $30+ for Peppers and Urlacker, can we pay $30 for Asomo, Hawk, AND Jenkins?

    • Paying Asomo is so contrary to everything TT has done it’s a laughable. More likely for Jerry Jones or Dan Snyder or even Robert Kraft.

    • I have such a hard time seeing the value of one player in that over 10 range. I guess you have to do it for a QB, but other than that one spot how can anyone be that cost effective? Can one player bring in that many fans – or can one player turn around any D or O to that extent? It might be an interesting study to equate those outlays to success. Cap to the max I can see but on one player?

      • iccyfan

        Interesting article on Asomugha on a Raiders blog, comparing him to Revis following the 2009 season. The most startling statistic was: On field for 439 pass plays, only 28 passes thrown his direction (6.4%). The conclusion was, his coverage is so good QB’s don’t throw his way because receivers aren’t open.

        On the flip side, 21 / 28 passes were completed (75%), he only had two passes defended (7%) and only one interception (3.6%). I guess chances are you’d get a little bored when passes never come your way…

        While Ted’s history wouldn’t indicate he’ll pursue Nnamdi, and our Super Bowl title would indicate he doesn’t NEED to, I’d be in favor of it even if we have to PAY him. The Packers played nickel defense 75% of the snaps in 2010; Asomugha literally takes away half the field AND allows Woodson to play nickelback or safety. Can you imagine FIVE ballhawks in one team’s backfield (Collins, Williams, Woodson, Asomugha and Shields / Burnett), with Peprah and Shields / Burnett in reserve!?! Blitzes coming from everywhere at any time and pass rush effective simply because of stellar coverage!

        It’s a dream scenario so I’ll continue dreaming. By all reports, Asomugha is tired of losing in Oakland. If he wants to win championships and would play for $10M rather than $15M+, I’d hope the Packers would go after him.

        Last thought. The Colts cut Bob Sanders late in the week. Sanders’ injury history / game availability would make Justin Harrell look durable, but man can that guy play! It’s more likely Bob Sanders could be signed to a reasonable contract than Asomugha, and a safety pairing of Collins and Sanders would be incredible. Signing Aso would delay the development of Shields, Lee & Underwood, and can probably be looked at as a LUXURY. Signing Sanders and getting lucky with his health would be like going from a Ford Pickup (Peprah, Bigby) to a Lexus SUV with a turbocharged engine!

        Let’s take advantage of our championship and go out for some hungry veterans who want to go where we’re going!!!

        • TT would not pay a KR, backup QB or RB free agent. Positions that were in dire need of help(though Flynn is improving he wasn’t good enough last year to beat the Lions). Zero chance on an older high price vet.

        • Rick

          I think Woodson being a best bud of Asmo doesn’t hurt either to get him to sign.

          Signing Sanders worries me. The actual fact that the Colts also cut him really concerns me about his true level of health. He is a good pass defender but leaves alot to be desired in run support.

          I will trust TT. He has proven himself now.

          • iccyfan

            I agree with you 90% of the time, but you’re confused in regards to Sanders’ strengths. I’ll illustrate with a Troy Polamalu comparison. Per, TP has averaged ~4.8 tackles (solo and assisted) for every game he’s played, while BS has averaged ~6.1. In short, Sanders is very strong in run support while also being above average in pass defense (for a safety). If they could sign him to a modest contract, befitting his injury history, it would be a massive upgrade to Burnett / Bigby / Peprah…

  • Press-Gazette Dougherty 2/19 has been reading Al’s blog.

  • Larry

    If we go FA at all, maybe a KR. I’m not sure what Sproles would go for but experienced KR and shifty as hell. More than likely we’ll pick up a KR/WR or KR/CB in the draft. If we added one that’s a RB we’d have 4rb’s worth keeping and have to dump some FB’s (God forbid).

    • Why do we always assume we do not have returners on our roster? Seems to me our stats would be better if we could convince what we have to go up field rather than sideways. Even a mediocre returner can get 10 to 20 yds a pop with blocking. Thats sufficient field possition and I still maintain that at the most only a couple of games year MIGHT be decided by STs.

      • iccyfan

        How about teaching our punt returners (Tramon!) to move up and fair catch, not letting the ball bounce in front of them. That’d be an improvement in our punt return game…

      • dave76

        You got it Iccy, Slocum has to go. Simple teachings like you mentioned, would do our STs very well. IMO, Slocum is the one change that has to be made in coaching. STs improvements could certainly be the difference in a couple of wins and losses.

        • I just read an article that said Slocum is planning on moving on from Green Bay. His wife has already quit her job and is looking for another.

        • dave76

          Thanks for the update Scot.

      • Shields looked completely lost. T. Williams is far too valuable to be a returner. Maybe we should get that Patriot lineman, at least he seemed to know how to cover up the ball and move upfield.

  • Larry

    If the guy were on the roster MM would have found him. The fact that our guys don’t go vertical tells you they’re not return guys. You can’t coach an ability not present. Williams shouldn’t be back there, he’s too valuable. With Grant healthy, Starks may get the nod but wouldn’t a KR/WR guy be the answer and if drafted a cheap answer. (Rookie salary cap)

    We’ve got 8 picks to fill no glaring weaknesses. Now is the time to add that dynamic return guy. And remember the previous SB team found one in FA on the cheap.

    • iccyfan

      I don’t disagree with you on any of this, but I think it’d have to be a young WR who also returned kicks, not a kick returner who could play WR in a pinch. I think LT’s correct in that Ted doesn’t assign enough value to the kick return game to use a valuable roster spot on a return specialist. I’ve seen Deshawn Jackson comparisons made in discussions of Titus Young (Boise State); I don’t think Ted favors smurf WR’s but you never know. Per the information “cut and paste” by Rockbottom earlier in this thread, Torry Smith of Maryland could be on the radar. One thing’s for certain, we won’t know what Ted is thinking until draft day (but that won’t stop us from speculating in the interim)…

      • Rick

        TT does have his own method to his madness

        • dave76

          And it works great!

  • Larry

    All true Iccy…a w/o who returns kicks is the best package.

  • Steve Cheez

    I never thought I’d see the day, but I am now officially more tired of the Carmelo Anthony trade crap than the BF retirement garbage.

    • Rick

      Me too

    • dave76

      Me three, watch for Dwight Howard next year. He’s not happy.

    • iccyfan

      I gave Larry and LarryTex the business for political debate earlier; NBA talk is worse! JMHO, but basketball as I understand it ends once a player leaves college! I barely recognize the game they’re playing…

      Also, the Carmelo saga has carried on for what, six months? BF dragged his drama out for six years! 🙂

      • Steve Cheez

        Good point, iccy, basketball is just a game. Football is life!

  • Try this iccy; When my father played it was the two-hand set, then there was the hook and the drive lay-up. By the time I came along it was all race-horse and the overhead jump, and my father used to say “What the hell are you doing, you’re not even concentrating on what you’re doing”. Now its the three-pointer and the dunk.
    The relationship to the NFL is simply that its the change factor and not the same game we lived thru when we played no matter what game it is. Now I go past a park down here, damned near year around and they are playing soccer. As Vince would say, “What the hell is going on?” And girls wrestling too, OMG! Oh, that title 9, what a wonderful thing…….!

    • And, my Great-grand kids don’t even have to keep score…………UGH.

      • Rick

        Gotta love T ball 🙂

        Wrestling was what my kids got into 2nd through 8th grade and they won and lost all on there own on the mat. It was a little tough at first but now they understand good sportmanship and respecting your opponent and that hard work and heart is what you must have.

        Hard work and heart may not always win, but you never truly lose either.

  • Larry

    Rather have a player with 100% effort and 50% talent than a player with 100% talent and 50% effort. You’ll always get your best from the first, and never from the second. I think Vince said something like this.

  • If TT would only draft a returner that could double at another position. If maybe MM would get rid of Campen and Slocum. If McKenzie could find a pass rusher for the other side. If Murph maybe convinces TT that a major trade (RB-WR-QB) would make us invincible. Oh, think of how good we could be. A little sarcasm in order?
    Think of Hester. Then three assistants that are former head coaches. A 90 million dollar rusher. And top that off with a blockbuster trade for a O starter that you give up 2 firsts and a third for. OR…!
    A guy named Percy (a #22 pick). Trade a #1, two #3s, give the guy a $74M contract w/31 guaranteed to get that rusher you need. Follow that up with a major FA acquisition for two yrs at $12 and $13M. Talk about getting that just one missing piece to make you a winner.
    Seems to me these embody a lot of our recent suggestions to make the PACK a winner.
    I know a lot of us think we have all the answers sometimes, but maybe we should let those in charge run the show and go along with them for the ride.

    • Rick

      The Packers team chemistry seem to be the had to work hard because they were the underdog, non silver spoon players.

      Other than Woodson and Raji; I don’t think GB has the Big Man on Campus players either like a Leinart.

      I do think Woodson came into the league thinking his stuff didn’t stink but then reality check came and he came to GB and realized how lucky he was to still get to play football and be good at it. Raji just came from a good family and is not the basket case some players are. So we are lucky there.

      The numbers of players, including Al Harris, and Aaron Kampman, that have played in GB and had that drive in the last 4 or 5 years is amazing.

  • Larry

    I don’t get your point LT…if you want to “go along for the ride” then I guess you won’t be posting in the future…too bad, I’ve enjoyed much of what you say.

    The purpose of the blog is to do exactly what we do…discuss the packers past, present and future. Some opinion backs a FA scenario, others the draft as the sole building block, and still others want to deal players and picks. No one is wrong and no one is right. We express our opinion knowing in the end that we have no input to what the team eventually becomes and how it gets there.

    • I’m speechless and cannot respond!

    • I like other peoples opinions on Packer subjects. I wanted to feel what the vitriol was regarding #4 because I just didn’t have it. Or what others thought TT was up to because some of his moves didn’t seem to make sense. It’s been lively.
      Living in Orlando I don’t usually get much Packer news or commentary. Just some back and forth in my fantasy league. So I appreciate the input even if the team can do without it. One thing I won’t do is sit home draft day rooting for a certain player. That seems pretty useless after the Harrell and Nelson drafts. So I’m trying to be more like L-T there and go with the flow.

      • Perhaps the point Larry did not get was this. TT was blasted for the Wahle/Rivera moves and followed those up with Corey Williams/Favre. TT goes, a real reach on Harrell and follows that with Shields and Starks. Go figure. I would never imply that solid debate should be mute over personnel moves while these guys are running the show, but we should realize that we do not have privey to the data they have, so maybe we should coast a little or look like fools in the end. IE, they won! So I’m wiping a little egg off my face regarding MM the middle of last season……!

        • iccyfan

          What in the heck are you talking about! You’re mad because people are opining about perceived places the Packers could utilize their draft picks? How do you see that as questioning the management team?

          Let’s revisit a few LT gems from the past year where he questions decisions made by Ted Thompson. Above you make vague reference to your mid-season call for MM’s head; how about your pre and early season rantings about our now retired strength & conditioning guru? You blamed him (Dave Redding) for everything but the spread of the black plague thru Western Europe! Lighten up Francis….

        • Oh, rest assured, I’m still convinced that our training and strength regime STINK! But, at the same time, I have no idea what the right approach for football is – other than the fact that we had one hell of a lot of injuries. All I know about conditioning is run-run-run, but then I was round ball, not that ugly game of football where you have to hug people and push them down.

          Sorry, iccy, your first paragraph is off the wall and totally void of comprehension.

          • iccyfan

            Your criticism of Larry was totally void of merit, along with being poorly written. My first paragraph, as well as my second, was making fun of your arrogance in once again telling other people how they should think. Again, lighten’ up Francis (cultural reference from Bill Murray movie of the 1980’s)…

          • Hmmm, your cultural reference would be to Bill Murray; yeah, I guess I’m arrogant. Hope you’re having a better day now that the sun is up.

  • So much Packers memorabilia stuff to buy, can’t decide where to start. I think I’m finally starting to recover from this exhausting, but thrilling season. It’s too bad that going to a Superbowl has gotten so expensive. I was at Superbowl 31 in New Orleans, and sat in the Packers endzone. The place was filled with electricity. It was truly one of those magical moments. Watching Reggie White hoist the Lombardi and Holmgren get carried off the field was amazing. One of the coolest moments of my life.

  • Sammy

    I think Al Harris should get a SB ring. He was on the team for most of the season even though on the PUP list, AND he did not want to leave the team. A classy guy, a class act, and helped the young guys improve so we could make the SB. What do you think? I heard that no one knows if he is going to get one or not…except Packer brass that is.

    • Rick

      If he is retiring than a resigning ceremony so he can retire a Packer and presentation of a SB ring would be cool. If he is going to play on in the NFL for other teams then I am not as in favor.

    • Steve Cheez

      Just curious, who pays for the rings? The team or the players?

  • Rick

    A little NFL combine fun homework.
    With the combine this weekend, these are reasonable players that will be available at the
    #32 Pick. So you can watch the combine and see how these players do.

    So GB is on the clock and TT and his BPA is picking. Which one of these players do you think he picks??

    a) Justin Houston OLB- 3-4 OLB pass rush monster. Plays in a 3-4 in college. Georgia
    b) Aaron Williams CB – good press CB at 6’1″ runs 4.49 but needs to develop zone skills Texas
    c) Mikel Leshore RB – Big bruiser with soft hands and decent speed. Picks up blocks too. Illinois
    d) Danny Watkins OG – 26 year old man that plays like Logan Mankins ( OG- Patriots) Baylor
    e) Leonard Hankerson WR – 6’2″4.5 solid WR. A Sidney Rice/Andre Johnson type receiver.Miami

    or f) trades down

    • Excellent question, but premature until AFTER the combine. Reason for my liking the combine so much is that it tells a little about how the guy keeps in shape when nobody is keeping an eye on him. College film can be very misleading given the competition they face. (example-Brohm, Flynn) You just don’t know what you really have until their first training camp. However, my take on the above at this point:
      a) Zombo, Walden, Jones, all 25 or less, can do what Houston does, and have proven NFL worthy.
      b) We have a roster full (from Gordy to Bell) of potential Tramon Williams’ (non-drafted FAs) that TW proved you can develop.
      c) Like a) Starks, Grant, Nance (23, 219, those awsomely huge legs). We have a blocker in Bjax.
      d) Too high for an interior; is he really 26?
      e),f) Torn, given the JJ senario and what does the Pack mgmt think of him? ie, can he be taught concentration? All of the receivers had potential catastrophic drops last year, but they all came back with crucial TDs too. Again, for me, I need more time. Wallet is in my pocket at this point and have not given up on the Asomo thing yet.
      Good work, I sure like that Williams kid though, but would make a broadcasters nightmare with a couple of Williams’ in the game.

      • iccyfan

        Since we won the SB and have all these NFL-worthy prospects with untapped potential, it appears LT is advocating we just pass on all our draft picks this year…

        We know TT will take BPA on the Packer board regardless of need; we’ll never have an inkling of how the draft-board shapes up prior to the draft – heck, we don’t even get insight after the draft! It is a fool’s errand to attempt predicting TT’s draft (see Harrell, Justin), but John Dorsey opined it’s a deep draft in RB’s, DE’s and OT’s (article on main page). I’ll go with the OL here and pick Watkins, whom many have suggested has the skill set to play tackle.

      • Nah, I don’t advocate a pass – nor do I insist on a pick. Regardless of being a winner you cannot stand pat or you get passed. Grow or die!
        “Let me be perfectly clear”, I think TT will go BPA, but this is the first draft in a long time that I can remember where we do not have a specific NEED. Improvement possibility almost everywhere but nine out of ten would be a backup position not a starter IMO.
        Hence the wait and see attitude, and the assurance that the Troika (specifically MM and TT) will do the best thing for the team.

      • A lot really depends on who stays and who goes from the current roster. If Brandon Jackson, James Jones, and Cullen Jenkins all leave, those could become areas of need for drafting back-ups. If Flynn gets traded, the same could happen. If Barnett or Hawk gets traded, the same could happen. I would put my pick on an OT to replace Clifton eventually. We need someone to start training behind him now. Bulaga has proved his worth on the right side. I don’t know if Cliffy can hold up a whole season, and I don’t care for Lang, and don’t know enough about Newhouse. If not Tackle, then a WR/KR/PR guy. Other than these two positions, it’s anybody’s guess until we see what TT decides to do on a lot of these free agents.

      • Makes sense to me Scot. I’m curious, tho, on one of your comments. Why do you consider a trade of Flynn and what would you be looking for? I would wonder if MM would go along with that.

        • I would only consider a trade for Flynn if it was for a high draft pick. If I’m not mistaken, Flynn only has one year left on his deal. So why not trade him now and get something for him?

        • Got it – since Harrell is nowhere ready to assume Flynn’s role I’d bet against it. But lets do this. Our 32nd+64th+Flynn to SF for their 7th and either Smith, Smith, or Carr. MM knows Alex and he would have a shot at getting the best OLB out there.

      • Rick

        Good points Scot. My only fear is that with the CBA still not working out yet, FA will have to wait until after the draft.

        That can create some strange holes on teams and the draft will have already happened. With the GB picking BPA and lots of depth we may be able to parley players by trades either into other players or future picks in 2012 draft.

        So without knowing the FA effect on this draft which player do you lean to for depth?

        On a personal note, I hope that Trioka keeps Flynn. He is ingrained, knows the system, and very reasonable salary wise for a back up.

  • dave76

    Just food for thought, does anyone here feel Jeremy Shockey might be worth a try? He had 41 catches for 400 yds and 3 tds last year. If we could get him cheap, he might be a 2nd or 3rd string and we could use him sparingly to save his health. I still love the thought of a double TE set and being able to really spread out the D is Aarons strength. ( one of them) It might push our TEs a little also, IMO. Plus he may see the Packers as an excellent to repeat and that may sway him our way.

    • Party animal, too expensive, would hate Green Bay, Finley is so much better, for his faults Quarless is healthier, and his hair is too short for our team now.

      • Rick

        Your so ” SUAVE” about hair LT LOL

  • Larry

    Going to far with hair jokes…somethings are off limits!

  • Ha, Ha, the big thing for my generation was peroxide and Mohawks, ugh.
    However, back to the business of the day and how we can help the Packers make their personnel decisions.
    Back to Lovat, I see. Hope he learned something last year from Redding. (Maybe, like how not to do it) A big MM mistake with the change last year IMO as you all well know. Especially, given R’s background with SD, KC, CLE, and WAS; winners all…………..!
    Oh, well, as some have said, we have two drafts this year, and the second one contains – forget it – I started to list them and quickly found five former starters.

  • Larry

    TT seems to like younger draft picks…underclassmen per se…although that may just be coincidence based on ranking. It does give him an extra year of youth to develop. I’ll be looking at the 40 times but more important the “cone” times. Matthews had the second best cone time and TT had him valued higher in the first than many. It seems to reflect change of direction and explosion, certainly traits needed.

    The more I look at what we have and what’s coming back from IR the more I see swapping picks into 2012. Notable exception WR/DB/KR and that may only be 2 players and another tackle to compete for LT or RT depending where Baluga plays. I’m sure we’ll draft 6 to 8 but the way our practice squad gets raided we should get compensated by Buffalo for all our work. LOL

  • Sammy

    You all have nothing to talk about regarding personnel. We have a proven SB champ in there evaluating the talent and all of your speculation is not needed. It is actually quite boring. Enjoy the win a little longer for God’s sakes….or have you old guys forgot already. I have it recorded if you need a copy. TT/MM will take care of you. Just sit back and enjoy. SUPERBOWL CHAMPION GREEN BAY PACKERS. Still fun to say. Can you say REPEAT!?

  • Larry

    I think the purpose of a trade deserves some thought…whether for a player or draft pick. In one scenario it may rid a team of an undesirable like the Santonio Holmes trade by Pburgh for a 5th. In another it may be to make room for a rising talent whose time has come…AR. But in the case of the GB backup QB (a historically traded position, Hbeck, Brunnell, Detmer?, Brooks) it gives the team value for a player that “historically” has not played AND would be difficult to resign (because he would like to start) or expensive to resign.

    Flynn appears to have starters talent and interested parties, due in part to his age and development. His liklihood of overtaking Rodgers is slim. If he truly wants his shot…he’ll have to leave GB to get it. If he leaves in FA, we get a compensatory pick at best. If we trade him and develop another we have gotten value for our investment, an investment that would lay dormant on this team.

    Obviously, injury to the starter is the wildcard. But should Flynn really want out to test his mettle (what top athlete doesn’t)…after his contract expires he can simply refuse to sign with GB. Lastly, as a backup with GB maybe he makes $3M a year…but as a starter $6m–$15M…

    Does it work…ask Matt Schaub, Hbeck, Cassell, Brooks, Brunnell…all backups wanting their chance and thriving (past or present)

    • The only dif in the senarios you pose is this, I think; Hbeck, Brunnell, and AR were starter material and Detmer, Brooks, etal were not as it turned out. I think highly enough of Flynn to want to package a deal for a replacement since Harrell is not ready yet. So much depends on Flynn’s (and his agent) true desire and wether GB would eventually pay starter money to a backup. I’m still in awe how Lombardi pulled off the Bratkowski coop and kept him happy, even considering he was pretty much a lifetime backup. Lousy TD/INT, Comp, and QB rate, but a real winner. Hell, I don’t even know why I keep bringing him up.
      In any case, I’m a real Flynn fan until Harrell develops.

      • Rick

        Until a CBA is in effect, all trades must be for picks in the draft. No player trades of any kind are allowed. No FA signing allowed. No contact allowed unless documented. Even medical staffs will have to log contact and reason of contact with players. The forms for medical Cobra applications were being faxed around yesterday to players.

        • Doesn’t the current CBA expire 3/3?

  • iccyfan

    Packer Report has some combine notes posted and reading between the lines, it doesn’t sound good for Darryn Colledge. Per Bill Huber, the Packers have spoken with OT’s Will Rackley of Lehigh and Orlando Franklin of Miami, both of whom project as guards. He has a feature article on Danny Watkins of Baylor, again an OT who will probably play guard in the NFL.

    While Colledge isn’t outstanding and has been brutal at times, he did just finish probably his best season with the Packers. Why do you think they’re willing to let him skate?

    Question: When you lose an unrestricted free agent, how do they calculate compensatory draft selections the following year? Any chance Colledge, a former second round pick and multi-year starter for the Packers, would garner a third-round compensatory selection?

  • Larry

    I think the reason to look is that pressure up the middle is the WORST thing. The absolute worst. Nothing positive happens when a QB can’t step up or use the middle to escape, IMO. Balls get tipped, arms get hit and QB’s throw picks when they can’t step up. Colledge gives up the most middle pressure and does not grade out as strong as Wells or Sitton.

    It didn’t take Spitz long to lose his spot during his brief play this season case in point.

    • Annual witch hunt on Colledge. Every year the likes of Spitz, Newhouse, McDonald, Lang, and Dietrich even Baluga come along and there he is in the starting lineup again. Must be the wrong guys are grading him out. If it were the coach he would have been gone after 2006. Oh, well, we can always blame TT and Campen (although it sounds like Baluga is giving Campen a lot of credit for his success last year). Maybe this year it will be Battles.

      • iccyfan

        Maybe it’s just me, but lately I’m having difficulty following your drift. I don’t feel strongly about Colledge either way, much like I wasn’t upset when they let Marco Rivera move along, but I did think Colledge had a decent season. He’s no longer the heir apparent at LT, but he’s a serviceable LG and extremely durable, therefore not without value. My point was that TT apparently hasn’t approached DC’s agent regarding a new contract, plus they appear to be looking closely at guard candidates at the combine. No witch hunt; no wish for Newhouse, McDonald or Lang to ascend; no finger-pointing at Campen. I’m curious as to why they’d so readily allow him to leave; does he want too much money? Is he a divisive presence in the clubhouse?

        I can’t tell if you’re defending Colledge or saying the coaching staff has erred in keeping him in the lineup!?! Did you mean to write, “if I were the coach, he’d have been gone after 2006”?

        Lastly, it looks like a foregone conclusion he’ll be moving on, which leads me to wonder if a decent compensatory pick will be coming our way.

        • Rick

          Til the rules are set I rule out nothing for GB. We just don’t know.

        • I have no friggin idea how that got in there – must have been a senior moment. I can only guess that what I meant was that if the coach were giving him those terrible grades he would have been gone in his rookie year.

        • Note: If “it” not “I” were the coach.

      • My drift was a recollection of how year after year (since he was drafted as a potential OLT) more than a few on this blog and elsewhere seem to chastise DC as the weak link (or poorest grader) on the OL. Every year at this time he seems to be the one to be replaced. I don’t agree and can’t figure out why the perception is that way.
        Seems to me he has proved to be a very serviceable journeyman OL guy who, by the action of his coach keeps beating out the heir apparant to his job every year. I don’t take exception to your comments, I agree; but the fact is many Pack fans always look for him to be replaced.
        Maybe its the same theory as “the second guy that throws the punch always gets caught”. I hear his name being called out for an inopportune penalty during a game, but others, not so much. I think both he and Sitton have a chip on their shoulders and I like that. I’ve always felt the problem with our running game is the backs, not necessarily the OL. Maybe thats why Edgar is now coaching WRs (?).

  • Rick

    @ LT
    “Doesn’t the current CBA expire 3/3?”

    FA is not covered without the CBA this year. Traditionally FA would have started shortly after the beginning of the next “cap” year. I believe FA would have been on 3/15. On 3/4 the NFL as we now it ends rules wise other than the draft itself will take place.

    BTW there will be NO UDFA!!!

    Once the last pick is made everything is in limbo…

    unless a new CBA is worked out ahead of time and an adjusted FA period is created.

  • iccyfan

    To whom does this post-draft biography belong? I’ve sanitized it so as to not provide obvious clues. The startling thing here is the number of red flags – I guess this is why our scouts get paid the big bucks…

    Scouting Report: Age 21, from XXXX. . . Starting RT in 20XX-‘XX. Part-time starter at RG in 20XX and at both RT and LG in ‘XX. . . Says versatility is his strength; has never played LT. . . “I can play a lot of different positions,” XXX said. “I have an awareness of the game.” . . Has never played center in a game and has practiced there only briefly. . . “What attracted us most was he brings a lot of fire and energy,” offensive line coach James Campen said. “Tough guy. He’s our type of guy.” . . Selected XXX over XXX, XXX and XXX out of high school. . . Has very short arms (31 3/4) . . “I don’t think length will be an issue,” Campen said. “All the kid does is win. He’s very, very effective pass blocking. Once he has his hands on you he’s Velcro. You’re not going to get off the kid.” . . Ran well on pro day, clocking 5.18 with vertical jump of 29, broad jump of 9-1 and 28 reps on the bench. . . “This is obviously a pleasant surprise,” XXX said. “I’m excited to get there and be part of a historic team.” . . Was arrested for driving while intoxicated in 2006 and had his driver’s license suspended as the result of unpaid parking tickets. . . Has been cut several times in the past, including a cut foot with glass in 20XX, a cut wrist falling through a window in ‘XX and cut face with a bottle in ‘XX. . . Diagnosed with attention deficit disorder. . . Wasn’t invited to the combine. . . Scored 25 on the Wonderlic. . . .

    • Two important clues: Drafted very young, 25 Wonderlic.
      I think an interesting aside – three of the top four positions for W grades are OLmen with #3 being QB. Would not have thought it. Sure don’t want this guy in my locker room. LOL

    • Rick

      A two star college recruit and a 4th round NFL pick up because of the short arms and only a pass blocker not a good rush blocker- well he still is that but it is what GB does best. 🙂

      BTW he only lost two one on ones in rookie and regular training camp finishing I believe 25-2 for the whole TC.

  • A dry subject, maybe, but since there is no player movement news I’m trying to figure out the coaching changes. Off the mark I see loyalty involved but loyalty is not good job security in the NFL – perform or you’re out. I find it hard to believe that “ball security” would be behind the Fontenot/Bennett/Hilgenberg moves. It would be altruistic to think Bennett is moved to get more rounded O background. Really makes me wonder how all this makes the running game better. But then, I’ve never been able to figure out whether the problem is the OL or the RB. Sometimes there are holes big enough for a truck, but I never see a back of ours bounce outside after initial contact with an OLs rear.
    Frankly, I think I fully understand the training room moves, ie; basically back to the way it way a couple of years ago – but then there were those raft of injuries in ’07 too. So, so, confusing, I don’t know if I should be running this team anymore.

    • Rick

      Promoting from within and allowing the coaches to develop is a good habit for a teaching coaching staff to have. Bennett after the Samkin Gado affair has shown his ability to understand the RB position as player and coach. Now he gets to add WR to his resume. Everyone else gets a bump up in the coaching carousel.

      Since GB has said they will honor coaching and front staff salaries this allows the staff to still work together and have plans in place even if the CBA is not. There is still alot of film from last year to break down. Lots of potential free agents to look at and grade. There will be no down time. Sometimes it is better to keep your employees busy so they can not worry about the things out of their control.

      • No argument with any of that, only that Bennett’s move was latteral and looks like a resume enhancement move only. Unless, he can teach them ball security. Strange putting a RB in charge of WRs, thats all.

        • Rick

          Bennett wants to be an OC someday. He understand blocking concepts from a RB perspective now he can learn WR and timing . He is building up his strengths.

          He always had good eyes and found holes. His film study and ability to teach and get players up
          to speed is a rare skill. With the number of players he has had to instruct over the last few and the job he has done, I am impressed. I hope he can translate that to WRs too.

  • I don’t think we should pay Jenkins 8-12M and he is not going to get that anywhere else either. I would go 4-6M short term until Neal, Jolly, or Wilson prove out, however.

    • Rick

      Jenkins is worth more than 4-6 in a normal free market. The tag time has now passed anyways so we have to just ride it out with him. If a new CBA sets FA as a 6 year deal then I believe he becomes a RFA anyways so we have right to match.

      • Sounds good to me, I really like the guy and what he brings; especially when healthy. I think he is really a 3 down guy when physically sound, and that Pickett is the guy to platoon.

  • Larry

    I like Jenkins also but with DE’s Jolly, Neal, Wilson and part time Pickett we seem to have enough talent at end and with Raji, Green and part time Pickett we seem to have enough at nose. That does not include the lesser names like Wynn and alike. If there was interest there would have been discussions. This scenario would change if Pickett were to be traded.

    Assuming the rookie salary cap goes into affect when a new CBA comes…the rooks will be much cheaper than Pickett, Jenkins and of course younger/healthier.

    McCarthy says he wants Hawk back….I see it as a horse race between he and Barnett. I think Barnett is faster but he’s got a recent injury history that tough to ignore. LB’s are great 3-5 round picks.

    • Rick

      I see them both back. Hawk’s contract number may or may not be cap unfriendly depending on what happens but assuming something similar to what the teams had in the past he should be able to be resigned and turn his heavy contract into a prorated signing bonus and become more cap friendly. I see Hawk and Burnett staying along with Bishop and a youngin draft pick or two as ILBs.

    • Rick

      I do see a fresh in flux of DE/DT from the latter rounds.

      Howard Green is a jumbo but no value in zone blitz, make GB too one dimensional as a run stop player. He is a great situational player though.

      Jenkins is a possible big money FA and is a solid 3-4 DE. May be gone this year

      Johnny Jolly is having to be allowed back into the league and has not been allowed near a GB playbook or training facility in a year. What shape is he in? How long to make him a viable starter again with the possibility of a lock out restricting the time we have to get him up to speed.

      Pickett. Solid 4-3 DT that has been flexible and a solid player in 3-4 DE role. Older but plays strong if part of a D line rotation.

      Neal. Rookie was hurt so he is a rookie again for GB. How healed is he and how durable is he?

      Raji. Pro Bowl NT

      CJ Wilson. A late round player with potential that has stayed the course and played his way on to the field with the injuries GB suffered and served well when in rotation. Needs more weight room work and technique work but is becoming a solid player.

      Jarius Wynn was a practice squad guy that has stuck. Looks okay but is not a 3-4 DE in this system. Will have to show improvement to make team.

  • Ok, I’m going into an ideal world. Wilson and Wynn are back and Jolly is reinstated. Neal and Harrell are in good shape coming back from IR. I’m staying with Pickett, Raji, Green, and paying Jenkins. Pickett is 31 and Jenkins is 30, I can live with that. Give me any three of the other five for rotation and schemes and I’ll put a couple of draftees on the PS. I’m set on the DL. I’m also going with Jones, Hawk, Barnett, Bishop, Matthews, Zombo, Chillar, and Walden. Again, with a couple of draftees on the PS. I’ve also decided I’m going to try and bring in Asomo. Man, think of all the combos with our existing DBs that that could concieve. I think the locker room would go along with that too.
    OH, I’m also keeping both Jordy and Jones with DD staying for another year. I’ll keep any two TEs behind Finley you give me. I’ve decided I like Grant, Starks, and Nance, so I’m set there. No change on the OL until Cliffy cannot do it anymore. I keep Harrell and Flynn.
    Gee, that was so easy………..!

    • Rick

      Lets hope it works out.

  • No one wants to talk about it but the union is about to decertify. With the NFL a virtual monopoly it’s subject to anti trust laws. What would that do to the salary cap and future drafts? Just asking.

    • Rick

      If the owner’s are found guilty then every team, GB included, pay triple the lost pay as penalties.

      I think the owners will be very very tough to deal with after that.

      As far as football. If the Union decertifies there is no NFL as we know it. It is over. A judge in Minnesota will decide sometime this year what we get to watch and what rules will be in effect.

      If the Union does not decertify it falls under the National Labor Relations Board. If found to be negotiating in bad faith the Union will be forced to accept the Owner’s last offer.